Bringing Up Bates & Bates Family Doings: Part 2

[quiversR4hunting]

But in the US, couples traditionally marry in the brides "homebase" not the grooms. I'd be very surprised if they didn't marry in Bates turf in East Tennessee. But if Michael(a) does want to keep it small, a "destination wedding" at the Northwoods conference center is a good idea. But could they afford it?

Gil is on the board or whatever for IBLP/ATI, I bet they could get a "deal" for Northwoods. I agree usually marriages happen near the bride's family. An announcement could still be in the lansing journal.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

having the wedding in Michigan could throw off leghumpers and FJers.

[JillyO]

Angie Keilen, Brandon's oldest sister, is Senior Executive Assistant to the President of Business Roundtable. She has a BA and is working on an MA from George Washington. That's pretty far away from ATI standards.

Alison, the third-oldest, works in the Michigan governor's office. Can't find out much else about her, but I'd assume she has to have more education than just SOTDRT.

Sadly, I doubt than any of that is going to rub off on Michael. Homegirl is bathing in the kool-aid and so is Brandon.

[Georgiana]

Angie Keilen, Brandon's oldest sister, is Senior Executive Assistant to the President of Business Roundtable. She has a BA and is working on an MA from George Washington. That's pretty far away from ATI standards.

Alison, the third-oldest, works in the Michigan governor's office. Can't find out much else about her, but I'd assume she has to have more education than just SOTDRT.

Sadly, I doubt than any of that is going to rub off on Michael. Homegirl is bathing in the kool-aid and so is Brandon.

Interesting.

Brandon seems very...dismissive of Michael and slightly condescending to women in general (that's just the vibe I get. No hard evidence to back it up). I wonder if he felt insecure growing up being outshined by more intellegent/driven/successful sisters, and instead of competing, he ran into the arms of a faith that puts men above women by divine decree.

[nokidsmom]

Haven't watched any episodes, just getting the highlights here. Am surprised that there was no engagement announced, it seemed that it was heading that way. So my guesses are:

1. Cliffhanger, announcement next season

2. Keeping it private as discussed above.

3. Could it be that Brandon is hesitating as in having doubts?

Sure he's got the internship workwise and is trying to get his financial ducks in a row, but it seems that if things were heading toward engagement like looking at rings, then wouldn't he get the green light to propose? Michael is so obviously anxious to get married, it looks like he would be fighting her off if it weren't for those courtship rules. And with things pointing to an engagement and putting that out there on the show, it just surprises me that there was no announcement. Might be just a cliffhanger but it's got me wondering :think: . Hope we don't have a repeat of Zach and Sarah as mentioned upthread.

[quiversR4hunting]

Angie Keilen, Brandon's oldest sister, is Senior Executive Assistant to the President of Business Roundtable. She has a BA and is working on an MA from George Washington. That's pretty far away from ATI standards.

Alison, the third-oldest, works in the Michigan governor's office. Can't find out much else about her, but I'd assume she has to have more education than just SOTDRT.

Sadly, I doubt than any of that is going to rub off on Michael. Homegirl is bathing in the kool-aid and so is Brandon.

Thanks for the update!

If they do get married, I hope they live near his family. That may take them a little away from the crazy and Michael(a) see her sister-in-laws have non-fundie lives.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Thanks for the update!

If they do get married, I hope they live near his family. That may take them a little away from the crazy and Michael(a) see her sister-in-laws have non-fundie lives.

Even in ATI some family do REAL homeschooling and add in the Wisdom booklets. If Dad approves then they CAN go to college. And if Dad approves even a girl can go to work. The point of the whole Quiverfull thing is to raise an Army of Christian Politicians and voters to take Dominion over the USA and make it a Christian Saudi Arabia. Therefore, the DO need lawyers and lobbyists and staffers to do this work. Remember there ARE well educated professionals in this group, too, although it is kept quiet. One of the Dads in a family the Duggars had on their show has is a very successful finanical planner. Small business people don't just sell Firewood or crafts. Many, even without college, make REAL money. I'm glad that Brandon's family is educated. Is Brandon not yet "Free" from the ATI/IBLP program he was in to marry yet?

[Coconut Flan]

I thought Brandon completed his course in November. It was one of Gothard's fake curriculum things, but it wasn't an internship but a classroom thing that lasted two or three years. Three years is what is coming to mind.

[JillyO]

I thought Brandon completed his course in November. It was one of Gothard's fake curriculum things, but it wasn't an internship but a classroom thing that lasted two or three years. Three years is what is coming to mind.

From the Bates family website:

Brandon completed his 4 year ministry degree from Bible College in November, 2014.

4 flippin' years, what a waste of time. Also, funny how they call whatever-it-was-he-was-doing "Bible College" now.

[JillyO]

Even in ATI some family do REAL homeschooling and add in the Wisdom booklets. If Dad approves then they CAN go to college. And if Dad approves even a girl can go to work. The point of the whole Quiverfull thing is to raise an Army of Christian Politicians and voters to take Dominion over the USA and make it a Christian Saudi Arabia. Therefore, the DO need lawyers and lobbyists and staffers to do this work. Remember there ARE well educated professionals in this group, too, although it is kept quiet. One of the Dads in a family the Duggars had on their show has is a very successful finanical planner. Small business people don't just sell Firewood or crafts. Many, even without college, make REAL money. I'm glad that Brandon's family is educated. Is Brandon not yet "Free" from the ATI/IBLP program he was in to marry yet?

Really? 'Cause from what I've learned on FJ, a 40-ish year old, single, childless woman with a secular college education, getting a master's degree, working a high-level job (even if said job is for a conservative lobbying group) doesn't sound like she's following Gothard's teachings, like, at all.

I get that some ATI followers have secular college degrees, have careers, etc., but IMHO Angie does not sound like she's still following Gothard. Doesn't mean she's not still at least fundie-light. But it's a step in the right direction.

[19 cats and counting]

Really? 'Cause from what I've learned on FJ, a 40-ish year old, single, childless woman with a secular college education, getting a master's degree, working a high-level job (even if said job is for a conservative lobbying group) doesn't sound like she's following Gothard's teachings, like, at all.

I get that some ATI followers have secular college degrees, have careers, etc., but IMHO Angie does not sound like she's still following Gothard. Doesn't mean she's not still at least fundie-light. But it's a step in the right direction.

Anyone know how long the family's been following Gothard? Maybe they started after she had left the nest. Brandon's what 25? If she's 40, then she graduated from public school/SOTDRT 22 years ago, which was when Brandon was 3 (if my math is right).

[Coconut Flan]

I found out where I got the three years from.

We require a three-year commitment from the students. If a student desires, he or she can stay for a fourth year and earn a Bachelors Degree in Biblical Ministries. The cost is currently $2,100 per semester, which includes room, board, and books. Separate dorms will be provided for male and female students, and no courtships, engagements, or marriages are allowed during a student's enrollment in IMI.

Michael and Brandon began getting to know each other five years ago so they basically knew from the time he began this that they had four years to wait. I wonder if he thought the relationship wouldn't survive or he's drunk on Gothard.

[SayWhat]

I found out where I got the three years from.

Michael and Brandon began getting to know each other five years ago so they basically knew from the time he began this that they had four years to wait. I wonder if he thought the relationship wouldn't survive or he's drunk on Gothard.

Doesn't say you can't date. "we weren't courting or engaged we just were dating"

[Georgiana]

I did always find it odd that Brandon was allowed to court Michael when the program specifically prohibits it. And it's not like no one knew!

Somehow, special permission had to be granted for this courtship.

Perhaps because she was a Bates and Gil is/was on the board (not sure if he still is).

Or perhaps because Gothard/the Board needed someone for Michael for their image. TWO royal fundie families with unmarried eldest daughters was bound to raise more than a few eyebrows.

I sometimes wonder if Brandon was pressured to court Michael. Certainly it would be good for his career in IBLP.

[Dandruff]

They might already be engaged and it would be shown next season. I can easily imagine an episode or two covering a romantic, surprise proposal, family celebration, and initial wedding prep. I don't there's any real chance of the engagement falling through - Brandon's already in the family picture. That said, perhaps they (Michael) doesn't want a lot of media or Brandon's negotiating $$s for filming the engagement/wedding.

I think Brandon is working for or will work for IBLP, near Chicago, and they'll be spending time with the Wallers and Staddons.

[19 cats and counting]

So season 2's plotline--- Wedding bells for Michaella and Bradon (and the planning--- episode 1 is the engagement and the finale the wedding and maybe 1 planning episode), baby prep for Alyssa, more of the adorable Bradley, and perhaps baby prep for Erin (although that could be bumped-- 1 grandkid per season?).

But with a courting/engaged couple and two babies on the way, season 2 has a lot of material to work with. Anyone know when it returns?

[patsymae]

"After all she is a full time nanny so she should have savings, she has to be making between $300 and $500 a week. Most likely in cash."

In the real world she would be making that as a full-time nanny. In the fundie world she is probably making nowhere near that, if anything. Like the "wedding planners," "bakers," "music teachers" and other people who appropriate the terminology of real work when they are just trading services within that culture. I suspect it's like Jana being a "doula," just serving the cause while coating it with a job description to it seems like she has a "profession."

Plus, when you think about it, what are the odds that someone in their culture would be paying a full-time nanny? What helpmeet would admit to a full-time nanny?

[halcionne]

From the Bates family website:

4 flippin' years, what a waste of time. Also, funny how they call whatever-it-was-he-was-doing "Bible College" now.

I did some googling on Brandon and came across this: apassionforjesus.com/international/russia_2014_tour which says he went on a mission trip to Russia in Summer 2013. I was more interested to see his "bible college" named on that site as the International Ministerial Institute in Texas, and of course, it's ATI/IBLP: ati.iblp.org/ati/students/opportunities/imi/ <- this link is gold:

IMI is designed for students who want a deeper relationship with God and are not afraid to go where truth may take them. We do not adhere to any denomination or theology, and we will not tell a student what to believe theologically. It is our desire that each student learns to hear the voice of God and that God determines their "theology" or lack thereof. We are not focused on the church, as the Biblical focus of a believer is on a relationship with the Father and on seeking His kingdom and righteousness. It is from this relationship with God that true ministry flows from the believer. Jesus defined a disciple as one who abides in His Word, and our goal is to make disciples for Him in this way.

Through the leading of our Lord, the International Ministerial Institute (IMI) is opening its doors to young women. Up to this point, IMI has been an all-male school, since one of its main purposes is to prepare young men for the pastorate. While many of our graduates do go into ministry, the majority does not do so. Many students simply take the disciplines and the relationship with the Lord which they gained at IMI into their lives beyond graduation for the general furtherance of God's kingdom. IMI has been in existence now for over ten years, and we have often been asked when we would open an IMI for young women. This last February, the Lord began to confirm to us through Scripture, the Holy Spirit, and authorities that this was His desire.

Classes are scheduled similarly to college semesters. The fall semesters start in late August and end in mid-November, and the spring semesters start in late February and end in mid-May. Each semester is twelve weeks long. We require a three-year commitment from the students. If a student desires, he or she can stay for a fourth year and earn a Bachelors Degree in Biblical Ministries. The cost is currently $2,100 per semester, which includes room, board, and books. Separate dorms will be provided for male and female students, and no courtships, engagements, or marriages are allowed during a student's enrollment in IMI. While these events may spring from friendships formed at IMI, they cannot and will not occur while one is a student here. We desire that all students focus on God and their relationship with Him during this time of training.

Our Web site and brochures are purposely vague, [ ] because we cannot communicate the heart of IMI in print. Students need to know what they will experience at IMI, and that is best shared through personal interaction. To request further information or an application, please call us at *snip*

$2100 a semester, times eight semesters = nearly $17,000 on a worthless "bachelors degree." :angry-banghead: No wonder he needs to save some money before he can get married.

[16strong]

:pink-shock: Ummm... that is really fucking creepy. They're not going to tell me what it's like there? Most schools would have a student(s) describe their experience, with a caveat at the end that you really have to visit to get a full understanding of what it's like to attend. They would also put a listing of the departments and classes, as well as campus photos. But this? Um, am I going to be walking into Amityville Horror House, or the Gein Manor? Because, NO. Just no.

And who attends a bible college that has no set theology? Every Christian church I've been to puts a huge emphasis on what they believe and why. The fact that they won't tell you upfront what they believe is sketcher than sketch.

[Dandruff]

I guess they're seeking a type of student who can appreciate intentional vagueness.

My impression of Brandon on the show? Intentionally vague.

[halcionne]

I looked into the Keilens last year when Brandon first came on scene, but I don't remember much of what I found. My fundie spreadsheet shows a five year age gap between kids 2 and 3, RJ and Alison. That could suggest a trip into Gothardland and vasectomy reversal. Or not. RJ is the only married child, which is unusual, but he married a Dauer and that's another atypical ATI family. Mama Keilen's father developed and headed the criminal justice program at Pensacola Christian College, so that could be evidence for multigenerational religious extremism. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/pensac ... =123949195

[Ursula]

It is interesting that his family is also of the women wearing pants and sleeveless fundie version- unless some of his siblings have gotten out of ATI and become fundie-light.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

[attachment=0]Keilen family.jpg[/attachment]

(I am pretty sure this has been talked about before). His sister Becky works at Michigan Family Forum and she goes to a real, secular, public community college. michiganfamily.org/staff.htm

Oh man. Craig Keilen. Would.

[JillyO]

"After all she is a full time nanny so she should have savings, she has to be making between $300 and $500 a week. Most likely in cash."

In the real world she would be making that as a full-time nanny. In the fundie world she is probably making nowhere near that, if anything. Like the "wedding planners," "bakers," "music teachers" and other people who appropriate the terminology of real work when they are just trading services within that culture. I suspect it's like Jana being a "doula," just serving the cause while coating it with a job description to it seems like she has a "profession."

Plus, when you think about it, what are the odds that someone in their culture would be paying a full-time nanny? What helpmeet would admit to a full-time nanny?

IIRC, the family Michael works for only has two kids and the mom works outside the home part-time, so they probably aren't quiverfull/Gothardites. Pretty sure I have this information from FJ so, so I can't vouch for its accuracy. Just thought I'd chime in.

[church_of_dog]

I did always find it odd that Brandon was allowed to court Michael when the program specifically prohibits it. And it's not like no one knew!

Somehow, special permission had to be granted for this courtship.

Perhaps because she was a Bates and Gil is/was on the board (not sure if he still is).

Or perhaps because Gothard/the Board needed someone for Michael for their image. TWO royal fundie families with unmarried eldest daughters was bound to raise more than a few eyebrows.

I sometimes wonder if Brandon was pressured to court Michael. Certainly it would be good for his career in IBLP.

There are a million common examples in the world where people do what they want in a way that fits the letter of the law (or parental rule) while completely conflicting with the intent of the law/parental rule. My guess is that this is just the Gothardite version of that.

In other words, they can be as emotionally close as they want and make all the future plans they want, but as long as he doesn't specifically request permission to court her, then it's not violating the "no courtship" rule.

[divadivine]

I think Brandon is scared to death by the howler monkeys.

The older Bates girls- Tori, Carlin, Josie, Katie- are annoying. They're just snotty & bratty. I want to slap them.

This is my opinion, but Brandon pings my gaydar.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think Brandon is scared to death by the howler monkeys.

The older Bates girls- Tori, Carlin, Josie, Katie- are annoying. They're just snotty & bratty. I want to slap them.

This is my opinion, but Brandon pings my gaydar.

He pinged mine, too.