Bringing Up Bates & Bates Family Doings: Part 2

[justmy2cents]

It was cute to see Nathan and Lawson interact with 2 girls not related to them and feel at ease and flirt. Wonder if the Yankee would be willing to relocate and to pop out 19 kids?

Erin's shower was nice but I cringed when her friend asked everyone to go outside and to release balloons in memory of the 3 lost Paine children (pregnancies.) I'd be upset if someone brought up my miscarriage at my baby shower.

[J'Lurker]

It was cute to see Nathan and Lawson interact with 2 girls not related to them and feel at ease and flirt. Wonder if the Yankee would be willing to relocate and to pop out 19 kids?

Erin's shower was nice but I cringed when her friend asked everyone to go outside and to release balloons in memory of the 3 lost Paine children (pregnancies.) I'd be upset if someone brought up my miscarriage at my baby shower.

I doubt there was a second of her pregnancy where she wasn't thinking about her miscarriages. The fact that she was having a baby shower for Carson, when she didn't make it that far with the other pregnancies would be a constant in the back of her mind.

I know other women who have done similar things at their showers; they've told me that it is cathartic to them because it reassures them that the lost babies won't be forgotten. It allows them to let go of some of their grief, and feel allowed to fully celebrate the new life they will get to enjoy.

I hope it helped Erin.

[moreorlessnu]

I thought it was really sweet. Given that Erin described Kelsie as a very close friend, I trust Kelsie knew whether the balloon release was the right thing to do.

The two littlest Bates brothers are so stinking cute!

[blanche6612]

Those girls visiting were so animated, and Nathan was flirting in such a natural way that I totally forgot I was watching gothard followers.

[calimojo]

One thing about the Bates vs. the Duggars, although trivial... I feel like I could walk into the Duggar compound and still wear pants (for the first few visits). I feel like if I entered the Bates' house, Kelly would immediately hand me a skirt and direct me to the nearest bathroom to change.

I don't really see it that way. When they were out with Kelly's Mom, "Meemaw" was wearing pants. I think Kelly would be gracious with a guest in her home, at least as far as pants vs. dress.

I think the Duggars would be that way too. In fact over the years, we have seen several guests at the Duggar's home who were wearing pants, most recently Megynn Kelly.

[Snarkle]

However, and I have NO empirical evidence to back this up--it's just an impression, I feel like the Duggars would make passive-aggressive comments about "modesty" and "defrauding" the entire visit...and possibly say negative things after I am gone.

I would much rather someone hand me a skirt and straight up tell me they don't like my attire and go change. Probably I would, because my policy is "your house, your rules", but if I had serious objections I could voice them then and there. I'd rather have someone be up front about how they feel than have me try and guess...or be embarrassed when I realize they've been uncomfortable about my attire the entire time.

YES! Total, utter speculation, but I infer that Kelly would be more direct about her wishes/requests/demands than Michelle would be (and of course I have no proof, it's just a hunch). She has stated a number of times what she wants in her house (such as skirts), but respects that her grown/married children can make their own choices when they're not under her roof. Michelle would be more wishy-washy about her statement (maybe it's the baby voice that makes me think that), as in, "We'd LIKE this to happen..." but try to say it in a "keeping sweet" way which is more underhanded. Perhaps it's the way that the Bateses are presented on TV, but even on previous shows (19 Kids, United Bates) they seemed more direct and firm in their statements and even the kids are snarkier about each other, whereas the Duggars are more practiced in their statements about each other and their beliefs. Of course reality is probably somewhere in between, ad I could be way off base here since it's just their TV personas we see and less of them in "real life."

[Snarkylark]

When is Erin due or has she had her baby already?

[VaSportsMom]

When is Erin due or has she had her baby already?

She had him a bit ago.

[Ursula]

Her son is a month and a half old already....Though she was (most likely) induced about four weeks early, her original due date was early June. Carson is here and healthy though still looks super tiny to me, at a month and a half old (based on the few pictures they choose to share, that is). Then again, maybe I'm just used to seeing that GINORMOUS baby that is J'Izzy Dillard :lol:

And I'm fairly certain women in WHORE PANTS have been shown in both the Duggar (well, for sure there, J'Amy, for one) and Bates homes. I think the other female family members who came to visit in the first episode of BUB where Alyssa announced she was knocked up were wearing pants. And none of Gil and Kelly's own siblings are as insane as them in their beliefs so I'm certain most of the women in the extended family are pants wearers. I very much doubt Kelly would require them to wear skirts at her house (doesn't mean she doesn't also secretly judge them under her breath about it...but it also doesn't mean that she does). On the scale of things these fundalunatics hate, I would bet "women wearing pants" is pretty low. Hell, there are some old Bates family pictures floating around out there where they only have 5-7 sprogs and the girls are clearly wearing not just pants but SHORTS. Including Girl Michael who is the most conservative dresser now. That makes me seriously curious as to when they went fully off the deep end into Got-hardism and traded standard late 80s/early 90s clothing choices for LHotP frumpers, hmmm....

[calimojo]

YES! Total, utter speculation, but I infer that Kelly would be more direct about her wishes/requests/demands than Michelle would be (and of course I have no proof, it's just a hunch). She has stated a number of times what she wants in her house (such as skirts), but respects that her grown/married children can make their own choices when they're not under her roof. Michelle would be more wishy-washy about her statement (maybe it's the baby voice that makes me think that), as in, "We'd LIKE this to happen..." but try to say it in a "keeping sweet" way which is more underhanded. Perhaps it's the way that the Bateses are presented on TV, but even on previous shows (19 Kids, United Bates) they seemed more direct and firm in their statements and even the kids are snarkier about each other, whereas the Duggars are more practiced in their statements about each other and their beliefs. Of course reality is probably somewhere in between, ad I could be way off base here since it's just their TV personas we see and less of them in "real life."

Having recently watched the episode where Michelle looks crazy annoyed that Jill and Derick had a front hug at the airport, I think, imo, that you are reversed in this way.

I think Michelle is much more controlling. Remember how upset she was that Jessa and Ben held hands during a prayer? Mind you, His parents and JB and M were both present so it was pretty unlikely that this hand holding was going to result in sex on the restaurant table, but still she was clearly flustered by that.

I think Michelle is controlling an rigid. Don't get me wrong, I think Kelly is a true believer as well, but I get the impression that she and Gil are more understanding that their kids will "make mistakes" or stretch their wings a bit. We see Alyssa setting up her own fashion style that is clearly not what she was taught. We see Zach admitting to kissing before hand, In the recent episode we hear the kids talking about flirting and Gil and Kelly saying that they are aware their kids have had attractions or crushes on others. Michelle would never allow her kids to openly flirt, like we saw with Nathan and the NYC girls.

The Adult Duggar kids absolutely have stayed in step with their parents dogma, hook line and sinker. They never criticize or even teasingly criticize their parents. Listen to the boys openly disagree and even argue with Gil when they were working on the swing set.

Kelly and Gil, seem to value more individualism in their kids than the Duggars do. The Duggars schtick is that they are all one big unit, moving exactly the same, doing the same things, in a routine and with very little individual variation.

The Bates family don't seem to be bothered by the kids having more voice, more choices. I think on the important things they are expected to comply with their parent's wishes, but I think they are allowed more room to be their own person, as long as they stick with the basics of the crazy religion they buy into.

I think Gil and Kelly are more intelligent than JB and M. Maybe not as crafty as JB is, but innately more intelligent. I think they are more able to see some shades of gray in the world, than JB and M.

Now having said that, I am not endorsing their lifestyle or their beliefs. I think, as others have said, their obvious "Likeability" may actually make them more dangerous re: spreading the word of Gothard than the Duggars. The Duggars were/are largely regarded as a freak show except for the hardcore leg humpers. The Bates have the potential to be viewed as a more normal, fun loving conservative Christian family who make living in a great big family just seem like the best thing ever. Never mind that they have rigid gender roles, support politicians who want to deny equal rights, limit choices of women, etc.

[actuallyjessica]

could someone please PM me with the streaming link? the place where i usually download the episodes has not yet got the latest episode and i'd love to watch.

[RosyDaisy]

There is not one single thing likeable about the Bates. Mark my words, they just may be the next fundie family to face a scandal. And no, I'm not inferring what kind of scandal.

[socalrules]

I think what is interesting about the Bates kids is that their interactions with each other are so natural. They appear to actually enjoy each other's company, especially the teenage boys. They tease and speak to each other in such a normal way. They would likely be friends even if try were not siblings. It's a nice contrast to the Duggar kids, especially the older ones, who don't seen as close or to even particularly like each other. Jinger and Jessa being the only ones to have a relationship. At least if the Bates kids have to be stuck in the cult, they have siblings that make life easier and happier. I love the fact that most of the girls from Tori on down do not seem to be the type that will be able to keep sweet. I swear Tori and Carlin do not seem like they will be the shut up and obey your man types.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The difference is, Kelly actually likes her older kids and has a genuine relationship with them. Michelle only likes babies and has a very stiff/cold relationship with anyone older than 5. And she views them as workers, people she is training. Kelly is more affectionate and listens to her kids. It's clear that the Bates kids are not guarding every word they say, unlike the Duggars who stick to the script.

[Snarkylark]

She had him a bit ago.

Thanks. I'm glad he made it here safely. Will be interesting to see how they proceed with any other children. I'd think she'd have to be very careful until she gets periods back because she needs to take medications to keep any pregnancy so she'd need to be very proactive, not just letting nature take its course.

[calimojo]

There is not one single thing likeable about the Bates. Mark my words, they just may be the next fundie family to face a scandal. And no, I'm not inferring what kind of scandal.

I think to the average viewer, the Bates seem more "likeable". I am not saying that they are better people or have better qualities per se, just that on casual observance, they are more natural, and seem to have a normal affectionate and joking/teasing nature with one another. As another poster said, the kids seem to genuinely like each other. Can we say the same about the Duggars? Well, I don't doubt that the Duggar kids love each other, but they are so awkward in almost all of their interactions with each other that it is just hard to imagine the girls staying up late laughing and talking about their dreams and aspirations.

I think that the Bates kids would have an easier time assimilating into "normal" culture than the Duggars. And I think it is likely that some, if not all of the Bates kids will go more "fundie light" at some point than most of the older half of the Duggar Clan.

As I have said before, If I were forced to choose to spend a day with either family, I would chose a day with the Bateses' than with the Duggars, hands down. I would enjoy talking with those kids much more than I would with the wooden and socially awkward Duggar kids. I see inklings of independent thought amongst the Bates kids that I do not see in the Duggars.

I find their religious beliefs very troubling to downright repulsive, and their activism to deny rights to LGBT and women is immoral. I am not admiring either of these families. And I definitely imagine that like the Duggars, the Bates have skeletons in their closets. In fact, if the Bates had any kind of good judgment at all, they would end their show now, before their skeletons are revealed, which is likely just a matter of time. I don't respect many of the parenting decisions that Kelly and Gil have made, especially their homeschool curriculum, their views on purity, courtship and gender roles. But, I do believe that side by side, Kelly and Gil compare favorably as parents to JB and M. And I think it is obvious in the spontaneity, spunk, warmth, humor that we see in the kids.

Despite the fact that I have enjoyed watching the Bateses' kids on the show, I do still believe that Kids have no place on reality TV. I hope the Bates adults are paying attention to what is happening with the Duggars, and not in a "our friends are being persecuted" kind of way. I hope they are seeing the real pitfalls and dangers to making your kids lives public. I hope that the 2 seasons thus far have earned them enough money that they will just stop the show. They won't of course, because I suspect the need the money far more than JB ever did, but It would be nice to see a reality show family, just stand up and say "This seemed like a good idea at first, but we have come to realize that putting our minor children on TV is a bad idea and so we are ending the show".

[Dandruff]

It looked like Trace's arm was in a sling and I'm pretty sure I saw a cast on the arm of one of the girls. Wonder what happened.

[SamuraiKatz]

Sounds like the "let God protect them" safety plan may have failed.

[IzzyM]

It looked like Trace's arm was in a sling and I'm pretty sure I saw a cast on the arm of one of the girls. Wonder what happened.

There is an extra video on uptv website explaining the sling. It was a football game with Lawson that didn't end well. no clue about the girl.

[roddma]

Though the Bates kids may seem natural with other and associate with a few others, would they be comfortable with a woman who took birth control or someone with green hair in their home?

There was a poster here around the time of Zach's and Whitney's wedding who claimed to work with Zach Bates and knew some things them. From what they said, Gil is a user and grifter. We are talking about a guy who left a good job at Nabisco and went on to have 19 kids they obviously couldnt afford. As far as more choices an voices, a female Bates wearing pants does not impress much. It's comparable to Josh and Anna having a TV or gettign Mack's ears pierced.The still believe same.. None of the Bates kids have ditched the 'no birth control' idea. I will say the Bates kids seem to be more musically talented than the Duggar kids. I don't give any of them a free pass. You can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

[Mamato4]

Maybe someone from FJ can win the "Be the 20th Bates for a Day Sweeptakes" and let us know what it's really like. :lol:

uptv.com/shows/bringing-up-bates/news/be-the-20th-bates-for-a-day-sweepstakes/

[nokidsmom]

I find their religious beliefs very troubling to downright repulsive, and their activism to deny rights to LGBT and women is immoral. I am not admiring either of these families. And I definitely imagine that like the Duggars, the Bates have skeletons in their closets. In fact, if the Bates had any kind of good judgment at all, they would end their show now, before their skeletons are revealed, which is likely just a matter of time. I don't respect many of the parenting decisions that Kelly and Gil have made, especially their homeschool curriculum, their views on purity, courtship and gender roles. But, I do believe that side by side, Kelly and Gil compare favorably as parents to JB and M. And I think it is obvious in the spontaneity, spunk, warmth, humor that we see in the kids.

The family seems more likeable on the face of things but bear in mind that both Gil and Kelly are college educated, they seem to have a better sense of how things go in the real world. Kelly knows how to present her family in a better, more palatable light. While both she and Gil are raising kids that appear to be warmer. more spontaneous, more emotionally connected with each other compared to the Duggars, they still teach the same toxic beliefs, undereducated their children and limited their futures to specific roles. The more "likeability" of the Bateses compared to the more "unlikeability" of the Duggars is, IMHO, a difference that one could see between any family, either fundie or not. So really, the Bateses don't get any more credit for being more likeable, not to me anyway. I am more concerned with the fact that the dad quit what appeared to be a decent job in order to grift his way and his family's way through life, thereby relying on working kids to help support the family and that both parents have denied opportunities to their children, especially in the area of education, when they had these same opportunities themselves.

Despite the fact that I have enjoyed watching the Bateses' kids on the show, I do still believe that Kids have no place on reality TV. I hope the Bates adults are paying attention to what is happening with the Duggars, and not in a "our friends are being persecuted" kind of way. I hope they are seeing the real pitfalls and dangers to making your kids lives public. I hope that the 2 seasons thus far have earned them enough money that they will just stop the show. They won't of course, because I suspect the need the money far more than JB ever did, but It would be nice to see a reality show family, just stand up and say "This seemed like a good idea at first, but we have come to realize that putting our minor children on TV is a bad idea and so we are ending the show".

Both the Duggars and Bateses have made the devils bargain of putting their family on reality TV for financial and material gain. I hope Gil and Kelly are taking the Duggar situation as a cautionary tale rather than persecution !!!eleventy!!! and that this is the serious downside of fame. If they have any real skeletons in their own closets, and I have no idea that whether or not they do, that they consider that they could have same happen to them. But I think they probably need the money too badly.

[TuringMachine]

I almost found myself liking the Bate's mostly because, unlike Michelle, Kelly Jo actually seems to have some affection for her kids. But then I remembered that, while this might be the case, the family is still deep into IBLP.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Sadly, I think that the affection thing had to do with the Duggar's molestation issue. After that it was no sitting on brothers lap, no touching, etc. They were conditioned to have lots of boundaries. Although that doesn't really explain why Michelle is not affectionate, but I think she is just not a touchy feely person. Well, and she has a host of other issues.

[TuringMachine]

Sadly, I think that the affection thing had to do with the Duggar's molestation issue. After that it was no sitting on brothers lap, no touching, etc. They were conditioned to have lots of boundaries. Although that doesn't really explain why Michelle is not affectionate, but I think she is just not a touchy feely person. Well, and she has a host of other issues.

I guess my thing with Michelle is that she never seems to care about or spend any time with her children unless they're the newest baby. Kelly seems to have a lot more interaction with her kids.