Anna Duggar - Merge

[jqlgoblue]

IF there's a way to measure such things based upon what is shown on their show, I think JB has always loved Michelle more than Josh loves Anna. I remember JB crying when Michelle was being wheeled into surgery with Josie's premature delivery. He wasn't faking his emotions. I think Anna was Josh's ticket to righteous sex.

Also, JB seems to really need Michelle at his side. People take care of who they cherish. JB takes care of Michelle and himself. Josh takes care of Josh. I think Josh pushes Anna away at times on the show, like she's a nuisance on trips and so forth, when she's carrying 2 kids and pulling a suitcase and he has one child by the hand and nothing else, and is walking 10-12 steps in front of Anna.

I think Josh has probably lost his employer's insurance, BUT may have the birth covered under COBRA. Knowing him, he won't continue to make the payments under COBRA though, because it's going to be a huge hunk of money for him, Anna and all those kids.

I see what you're saying RE Josh & Anna... but don't view Jill / Derrick the same way. Also, it seems most of the clients that the midwife Jill "assists" are fundies too.

Anyway, I did a bit of searching and there isn't much out there but it seems to boil down to "it's in god's hands" and the typical avoidance of education and government systems, so let's just add medicine to it. It's also anti-modern and these people seem to like anything that throws women back into the dark ages.

[Mama Mia]

I see what you're saying RE Josh & Anna... but don't view Jill / Derrick the same way. Also, it seems most of the clients that the midwife Jill "assists" are fundies too.

Anyway, I did a bit of searching and there isn't much out there but it seems to boil down to "it's in god's hands" and the typical avoidance of education and government systems, so let's just add medicine to it. It's also anti-modern and these people seem to like anything that throws women back into the dark ages.

It's like some of the people here have been asleep for the past 35 years and suddenly woke up without realizing that there's this whole natural childbirth thing that many, many women - of all walks of life - are extremely interested in pursuing when they give birth. On purpose. To varying degrees, of course. And generally with a complete acknowledgement and appreciation of medical interventions when needed. But who - again, purposefully - want to avoid routine invasive procedures, as appropriate for that particular birth. For some women that might mean a home birth , for others it might just mean going into labor without induction, or avoiding pain medication. I mean come on it's not the 1950's, you all must have at least heard of this, right?

[feministxtian]

I had all three of my kids w/o drugs. First baby - Pitocin induction after spontaneous ROM. That shit HURT! Second baby - spontaneous labor, AROM at about 9cm. Third baby - AROM at 4cm to get it over with. My stepdaughter had the epidural, ended up with complications and a C-section. She also swore never again...she hopes to have a VBAC with the next one (no, no baby on the horizon yet). My DIL had an epidural with her first, wants a homebirth when the next one comes.

Having babies w/o pain relief is not a big deal. Most of my friends have done it. One friend had an epidural with the first and swore never again. She didn't.

I don't see why people are saying that Anna HAS to have an epidural to have M4. It's her choice.

[SassyPants]

She should have whatever kind of birth that she wants. Hopefully one of her goals is safety of the 2 patients, first.

I seriously doubt Anna wanted a toilet birth. I doubt any woman would want that experience, especially if it was being filmed to broadcast on TV.

[luv2laugh]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/249-Panorama-Dr-Oxon-Hill-MD-20745/37457042_zpid/

Well, well, well... the "DC" exodus is apparently complete. The house is available for rent next week... unless those are old pictures, its totally cleaned out!

Buzzard discovered on the Josh Molestation thread that Josh and Anna have already cleaned out and vacated DC. I wonder where they are staying now?

[VelociRapture]

She should have whatever kind of birth that she wants. Hopefully one of her goals is safety of the 2 patients, first.

I seriously doubt Anna wanted a toilet birth. I doubt any woman would want that experience, especially if it was being filmed to broadcast on TV.

At this point, I don't care how she gives birth - I just hope the rest of the pregnancy and the delivery go well. I can't even imagine how stressful it must be to have news like this come out in your last trimester.

[Mama Mia]

She should have whatever kind of birth that she wants. Hopefully one of her goals is safety of the 2 patients, first.

I seriously doubt Anna wanted a toilet birth. I doubt any woman would want that experience, especially if it was being filmed to broadcast on TV.

Why? If her goal was to show a real, live, non- sanitized labor and birth - she met her goal. She's said herself it was her most difficult labor . The reality is that labor can be hard, and messy, and loud. So what? I wouldn't show that on TV, but I wouldn't willingly be on television, ever. If she's comfortable with using her own experience to get that message across, what's wrong with that?

I just hope that the incredible stress she's under right now doesn't cause any health issues for herself or the baby.

[SassyPants]

Why? If her goal was to show a real, live, non- sanitized labor and birth - she met her goal. She's said herself it was her most difficult labor . The reality is that labor can be hard, and messy, and loud. So what? I wouldn't show that on TV, but I wouldn't willingly be on television, ever. If she's comfortable with using her own experience to get that message across, what's wrong with that?

I just hope that the incredible stress she's under right now doesn't cause any health issues for herself or the baby.

WHY?????

She's in a patriarchal society where her FIL calls all the shots.

Enough said.

It applies to all areas of her life. For all any of us know, she never wanted to be on a TV show.

[JesusPony]

Buzzard discovered on the Josh Molestation thread that Josh and Anna have already cleaned out and vacated DC. I wonder where they are staying now?

It will be interesting to see where they end up:

- Florida or Arkansas?

- If Arkansas, their old home is occupied and it would look bad to be under the same roof as his married sisters/victims.

Josh is lazy and unskilled... I hope Anna didn't get too used to the good life. Maybe Bin's pre-nuptial warehouse loft is available.

[Talitha Cumi]

Remember recently when Jill and Derick came by for rack o' lamb? Without TLC, they'd have had beans and rice.

Anna was raised in poverty, though. I think she could be resilient and keep going, although that does depend on the number of offspring involved. Josh, on the other hand, was just getting flak online for his Beat by Dre headphones and $200 hamburgers. He likes the high life, and that's going to be off limits to him for a very long time; he's a pariah, a notorious child molester, and no longer able to easily grab a high paying job for his growing family.

Tough times are ahead for this family.

$200 hamburgers? What? Is this a thing? :pink-shock:

[apandaaries]

$200 hamburgers? What? Is this a thing? :pink-shock:

It was part of a political fundraiser, I believe, but yes, the burger was $200. Can't quite recall where I saw it -- perhaps on another blog because he'd put up a few pix of it on Instagram?

He was definitely living far better than he ever had before. Quite a fall for old Joshie.

As for Anna's labor, I just hope Josh doesn't take a nap this time. I also hope she gets to decide who she has around and where she wants to deliver.

[delightfullyduggar]

I don't much care for Anna, at least on the show. I find her annoying, though I will say she seems to be a much more hands on mom than Michelle.

----

As much as I think Michelle is a hands off parent now, with the exception of johannah and Josie, I don't think she always was

I mention Johanna because from the show and in pictures she seems to demand her parents attention. Which in part probably happens because Jinger is her buddy and Jinger isn't as controlling or maternal as the other girls. It's not a bad thing Jinger shouldn't have to be her siblings parents.

But anyway, we are looking at Anna with 3 kids we met Michelle with 14. In the beginning I'm sure Michelle wasn't much different. She HAD to be proactive because she had a group of infants and toddlers that had to be taken care of.

Plus, she had to raise the first few so they could then raise the younger ones. The older girls were taught from their parents the younger children weren't because their sisters were already "trained" to take Michelle's job.

I think if we had seen Michelle with her first 3 like Anna or with her first like Jill or even when she was expecting her first like Jessa we would all feel the same way about her future parenting as as do these girls.

The real test will be when Anna has 6, 7, 8 etc kids - she could very well turn out just like Michelle - which is terribly sad.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

WHY?????

She's in a patriarchal society where her FIL calls all the shots.

Enough said.

It applies to all areas of her life. For all any of us know, she never wanted to be on a TV show.

Exactly. We don't know what these girls and women base their choices on. Are they informed or mislead? Are they pressured? Are they free to make their choices so long as they line up exactly with the Patriarchy? They are brainwashed so when people on FJ speculate that perhaps the Duggar girls want to wear flip flops all the time, or forgive their molester, or have as many children as possible, or marry the man that JB picks for them, follow the courtship rules, have home births,etc, I just think there is no way of knowing. I think they are used to damping down their true feelings and wishes and doing what they are told.

[LilahBelle]

Based on the talk that Anna and Josh are used to a certain lifestyle now, and it's hard to go down, I wonder if they will have any more children after this.

Frankly, I wonder if a great deal of the exponential Duggar baby making is over now that the gravy train is over.

[hapamama]

Plenty of women give birth without pain relief and aren't "off in the head"!!!! I'm not convinced her sole reason for delivering at home is so a man doesn't see her junk.But as for pain meds, she's done it 3 times so far, I think she knows what she can handle and what she can't by now.

My mother delivered all 4 of her babies without pain meds... including my almost 9 lbs at birth younger sister. My mother is a relatively petite Asian woman and has a high tolerance for pain.

Each woman and each birth is different. I had a 13 hour labor with my first, with awful back labor, but my induction with my second child wasn't all that bad. No epidural with either. My last 3 I had epidurals for because by then I figured that I had nothing to prove.

[SassyPants]

Based on the talk that Anna and Josh are used to a certain lifestyle now, and it's hard to go down, I wonder if they will have any more children after this.

Frankly, I wonder if a great deal of the exponential Duggar baby making is over now that the gravy train is over.

Totally agree. Those 2nd generation kids are not going back to the pre-TLC lifestyle that came with living in a 1300 sq foot home with 15 other people. No way. Can you imagine Jessa putting up with or choosing that crap as the parent? No way, Jose.

[Sundaymorning]

Based on the talk that Anna and Josh are used to a certain lifestyle now, and it's hard to go down, I wonder if they will have any more children after this.

Frankly, I wonder if a great deal of the exponential Duggar baby making is over now that the gravy train is over.

It wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand, they basically have two options now: to go deeper into the rabbit hole (as those fellow fundies are about the only ones who are still willing to associate with them), or to leave the cult and start living a normal life.

It's not realistic that this will happen. But I think that it would be a chance to get their life back on track for Anna and Josh, if they would do a complete 180. If they would publicly renounce their cult, and talk about the dangers and hardships that come with growing up in it, if they would get real conseling, and a real education, I could see a decent future for them. And Josh could even get his reputation back, as someone who has truly understood his errors and was willing to change for real.

[ShadowyOne]

I had all three of my kids w/o drugs. First baby - Pitocin induction after spontaneous ROM. That shit HURT! Second baby - spontaneous labor, AROM at about 9cm. Third baby - AROM at 4cm to get it over with. My stepdaughter had the epidural, ended up with complications and a C-section. She also swore never again...she hopes to have a VBAC with the next one (no, no baby on the horizon yet). My DIL had an epidural with her first, wants a homebirth when the next one comes.

Having babies w/o pain relief is not a big deal. Most of my friends have done it. One friend had an epidural with the first and swore never again. She didn't.

I don't see why people are saying that Anna HAS to have an epidural to have M4. It's her choice.

I agree with all that's been said about a mother's own choice regarding her plan. I wouldn't personally ever want to do a home birth, but would have considered a birthing center, had not the only one in our area been really far away & also just barely opened. Also as a high-risk mom (over 35 & gestational diabetes), I didn't qualify for the midwife at my OBGYN's practice. But if I do it again, I would push back SO HARD on the practice of mandatory induction at 39 weeks (for gestational diabetes patients). The entire induction process created a LOT of stress for both me & my baby, and was horrible and insanely painful . I think I only escaped C-section because I intentionally chose the hospital with the lowest C-section rates in the region. Oh, and to think, that during our childbirth classes, I put myself on the "late and light" scale of pain relief options. And shocked all the nurses by refusing any opioids afterwards ("Just Tylenol, thanks"). Everything changes once you're in the thick of it. I won't judge any mother for the choices she makes in the thick of everything, just saying (and that includes "risks" during Izzy's birth.)

[DaisyD]

My first, I wanted the anethiesiologist to meet me in my room. I didn't want to feel any of it. My second, I wanted to try for no pain meds and the nurse kept asking if I was sure. Then the Dr said the "p" word and I said nope, nope, nope, not until I get an epidural. I think I was a bit too far along, but the nurse fudged it for me so I could have it. Pitocin isn't screwing around. My hat's off to anyone who does Pitocin without drugs.

[luv2laugh]

It wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand, they basically have two options now: to go deeper into the rabbit hole (as those fellow fundies are about the only ones who are still willing to associate with them), or to leave the cult and start living a normal life.

It's not realistic that this will happen. But I think that it would be a chance to get their life back on track for Anna and Josh, if they would do a complete 180. If they would publicly renounce their cult, and talk about the dangers and hardships that come with growing up in it, if they would get real conseling, and a real education, I could see a decent future for them. And Josh could even get his reputation back, as someone who has truly understood his errors and was willing to change for real.

I think in the beginning, they are going to go deeper and deeper "into the rabbit hole" in order to heal from the scandal. Within 5-7 years, things could change. I could see them leaving and living a typical normal life by that time IF he chooses to write a tell all. Honestly, it is really going to depend on how financially dependent he will have to be on Jim Bob because he is completely unemployable now. The only way he could break away from Jim Bob is to either start up some forgiveness ministry and preach about it or do a 180 and write a tell all. But even then, his safest option is to depend on Jim Bob for financial support.

[Alexa]

I've always wondered about that. It's so weird that when they were told that Ana's doctor was away, they just randomly decided on a homebirth. Even with the issue of cameras and whether TLC would be allowed in or not, that's a pretty big decision to make at literally the last minute.

I think the homebirth was always the plan. The apparent last minute decision was staged for drama. Whether Dr. Sarver was available or not, that baby was going to be born at home.

I remember that and I bet the no cameras in the delivery room was the final nail in the coffin for a hospital birth. There was also a lot of speculation at the time that Josh wasn't happy with Anna having a male doctor which I would totally believe, but I bet it was the no cameras and a home birth being cheaper that won out.

For all those saying how Anna gives birth is HER choice, you're right that it should be, but in their world what her headship says goes and Josh has the final word. Most of the time I think he has the IDGAF attitude towards Anna. I see him throwing her under the bust any day of the year if it means more air time and ratings equaling a bigger paycheck. He knew having the births filmed would be a bigger ratings draw and paycheck for him, whether or not it was the best choice for Anna. Anyone think Anna would have insisted on staying at the hospital to give birth after Josh said to just have Miss Teresa help her at home? Doubtful. I also don't think any woman really wants to be filmed giving birth on a toilet for a reality show,especially one who values "modesty" as much as Anna, I could be wrong though. The way Anna kept saying Josh's name over and over while she was in labor in the backseat of the car has always stayed with me, that woman idolized him.

Anyway, I hope all goes well with the birth of M4.

[jqlgoblue]

I think in the beginning, they are going to go deeper and deeper "into the rabbit hole" in order to heal from the scandal. Within 5-7 years, things could change. I could see them leaving and living a typical normal life by that time IF he chooses to write a tell all. Honestly, it is really going to depend on how financially dependent he will have to be on Jim Bob because he is completely unemployable now. The only way he could break away from Jim Bob is to either start up some forgiveness ministry and preach about it or do a 180 and write a tell all. But even then, his safest option is to depend on Jim Bob for financial support.

I agree with you and actually think all the kids will go deeper into this initially until the financial reality sets in. That said, I don't see any of them shifting as far away as even fundie light. My money is on Jessa RE the tell all. I think Josh is pretty screwed, to write a tell-all that would sell enough copies he'd have to go to a legitimate treatment center. I don't think he really realizes he's done anything wrong yet. He's likely gonna rely on Daddy for a good long while. The others better get themselves together.

[HOTW]

My first, I wanted the anethiesiologist to meet me in my room. I didn't want to feel any of it. My second, I wanted to try for no pain meds and the nurse kept asking if I was sure. Then the Dr said the "p" word and I said nope, nope, nope, not until I get an epidural. I think I was a bit too far along, but the nurse fudged it for me so I could have it. Pitocin isn't screwing around. My hat's off to anyone who does Pitocin without drugs.

I had my first with an epidural that wore off just as i was about to give bi4th talk about a shock to th3 system.that combined with the dr trying to sew up the episiotomy without a local drove me to not want an ob the next time. With my second i had a a CNM and was on pitocin but went drug free and it was the best experience. The third wqs another pit labour no drugs but the njrse drove me nuts trying to sneak pain relief into my iv i kicked her out a few times she kept telling me i didnt need to prove anything but i found. I was fine without drugs although the afgerbirth pangs on the third drove me to take codeine as all the nurses told hubby that the third was the killer for severe cramping after birth and all the nurses had had over 3 kids themselves so i beleived him.

Giving birth is a highly personable experience and everyone deserv3s the right to control what they want. I had no control thebfirstntime andnvowed never to go thru thwt again

[FloraKitty35]

It will be interesting to see where they end up:

- Florida or Arkansas?

- If Arkansas, their old home is occupied and it would look bad to be under the same roof as his married sisters/victims.

Josh is lazy and unskilled... I hope Anna didn't get too used to the good life. Maybe Bin's pre-nuptial warehouse loft is available.

Jim Bob & Michelle wouldn't give a shit about insisting Josh & Anna stay with Jessa or Jill. Even though they are married, they are still playing by Jim Bob's rules.

[eh02]

Exactly. We don't know what these girls and women base their choices on. Are they informed or mislead? Are they pressured? Are they free to make their choices so long as they line up exactly with the Patriarchy? They are brainwashed so when people on FJ speculate that perhaps the Duggar girls want to wear flip flops all the time, or forgive their molester, or have as many children as possible, or marry the man that JB picks for them, follow the courtship rules, have home births,etc, I just think there is no way of knowing. I think they are used to damping down their true feelings and wishes and doing what they are told.

Josh really got just as rushed into marriage as Anna, IMO - in fact, I would venture to say he was even less prepared than she was. As f*cked up as Josh was then (and is now), they both were naive, immature, inexperienced kids who should NOT have been encouraged to get married and start a family so young. Josh clearly had a lot of shit he needed to work through, and rather than push him to actually do that properly, his parents shoved him into marriage like it would magically fix that pesky tendency to molest people. Oh, our kid has repeatedly molested young girls in his own family? Surely the cure for that must be to marry him off so he's responsible for other children's lives as soon as possible! That'll fix him!

I think they just wanted him to be someone else's problem. If he hurt someone when he was an adult out of their home, it wouldn't be their fault anymore. It's no wonder they were so hardcore about "leave and cleave" with Josh but didn't seem to care about it for the other kids. They saw Josh as a liability, IMO. They can pretend they wanted to help him, but they didn't want to protect Josh any more than they wanted to protect the victims. They wanted to protect THEMSELVES and the Duggar family image.

I am not sure Anna necessarily felt that embarrassed to have the toilet birth filmed. Honestly, everything was blurred out - what difference does it really make when you're watching a woman in labor on a toilet, in a bathtub, or on a hospital bed? No matter where you are, you're squeezing a gigantic baby out of your vagina, and probably shitting yourself while you do it.