Pope:Child-free Couples are Selfish

[roddma]

This comes on the heels of saying we didnt have to breed like rabbits. It is amazing how he and people like Bill Gothard, Mother Teresa promote/promoted having kids but never intended or bothered to have any. Does he ever read the headlines? I read them all the time about kids being left in cars, abandoned, abused starved to death, left in dumpsters. Being selfish involves another person. Plenty of people with kids end up lonely in nursing homes. Alone doesn't mean lonely either. Rant over

http://www.ucanews.com/news/pope-critic ... less/71077

[samurai_sarah]

Childfree couples are selfish? Bit rich, coming from a voluntarily celibate guy, who will never have to deal with pregnancy and child-rearing by his own volition, if you ask me.

[Toothfairy]

Says the virgin man with no kids

[tehfanglyfish]

The mister and I have no children but have been discussing the possibility. When we look at the financial impact and time requirements of having a child, we both start to lean towards no. Not because of how it would be a burden on us but because I'm not sure we could provide a kid with what it needs. We were both unplanned and born to families that lacked appropriate resources and know how that can lead to a lot of instability that kids don't need. (My mister's family ended up living in a campground for almost a year b/c they couldn't afford rent. My family would've been in a similar situation if there hadn't been grandparents to fall back on.)

It's selfish to create another human when you know realistically that you can't provide adequate care and resources.

[roddma]

They forget Jesus had no kids. There are other ways to be fruitful.

[catlady]

It's selfish to create another human when you know realistically that you can't provide adequate care and resources.

this. this is why mr catlady and I have been childless for the last 20 years. yes, we like having cable and internet and pets, but they are a much smaller expense than a person. FTR, we are not throwing money away on vacations and cars (we haven't travelled since 2010 due to a major job loss, and I have been driving the same car for 16 years; mr catlady kept his last car for 10). we don't dine out, and haven't seen a movie in a theater in over 10 years. throw a kid into the mix, and we seriously would have to rehome the pets, sell the tiny house in favor of a tinier apartment, and get jobs on opposite shifts in order to survive (day care is out of the question; in our area, it is in the neighborhood of $800/month). instead, we've made the best life we could on what we have. it's not the right answer for everyone, but it's the right one for us.

and then you have people like the Pope, who as far as I can tell does not have to provide for his own day-to-day living expenses (if i'm wrong on that, please clarify) and has also chosen to be childless, who have the cojones to tell me i'm selfish.

maybe God realized this is all I can handle (yeah, that was a little sarcastic).

edited to fix the date.

[RosyDaisy]

It's selfish to create another human when you know realistically that you can't provide adequate care and resources.

This! I completely agree!

[formergothardite]

Is he so out of touch with reality that he didn't realize he chose to be child-free? :lol:

[whoviana]

Having too many kids is like being rabbits... having no kids is selfish... what is the desired number of children that people should have according to this judgmental holyman?

[whoviana]

If every kid is a blessing and the most important source of happiness and the meaning of life and everything then arent childless couple supposed to be pitied? Since "selfish" suggests that you pursue your own happiness instead of the general wellbeing of given community. Do I owe a kid to anyone? Society, the church, this family, humanity or WHAT? How is it exactly selfish and why do these childless-haters always contradict themselves when cussing child-free people?

As time goes by we tend to be leaning towards having no kids at all. Husband to be has never pushed it too much, I have many issues that I wouldn't expose a child to (I consider it rather selfless and mature from my side, I don't care how it sounds) he said we are having fun as we are, and we don't need a kid in our marriage. We'd just love to travel and enjoy each other's company while at home. It is our choice and unless he owes a sperm and I am supposed to lend an egg and my uterus on command for whatever reasons.

[momof2treasures]

Why is this a topic for him? It seems to me hat unwanted children are a larger issue than the occasional couple that chooses not to have kids. I personally don't know anyone who has actively chosen to have no children and succeeded in remaining childless . I know a few couples who were unable to conceive and many more that shouldn't have though. Fwiw, I am a catholic and this really isn't something that the church focuses on. How would anyone know if a couple is childless by choice? It's no ones business.

[Lissa1481]

Better for them to be childless by choice than to have a bunch they don't want and then neglect/abuse them.

[feministxtian]

I would have loved to have had more kids. Realistically, it was not possible for many reasons. Mine are now grown and I'm a grandma. My children have made mature decisions on the size of their families based on their resources. While I'd LOVE another grandbaby to snuggle, I know there's no more coming any time soon. My oldest stopped at 2 for health reasons among others, #1 son is single so maybe someday (not even a girlfriend at this time), #2 son and his wife have a 2 year old little boy and they know they are not financially stable enough to have another one, maybe after he finishes school they'll have a second baby.

Being childless is NOT "selfish", I would call it self-aware. Knowing that you don't have the temperament, resources or desire to have a child, and then choosing not to have a child is SMART. Knowing that after one or two you're done is SMART. Not everyone wants to, or has the resources to breed like rabbits.

Taking advice from a celibate, single man is STUPID.

[August]

Pot, meet kettle.

I think that what will bring about the end of crime and world peace is when the only people who are parents are those who really want to be.

[Seven Severn]

Why is this a topic for him? It seems to me hat unwanted children are a larger issue than the occasional couple that chooses not to have kids. I personally don't know anyone who has actively chosen to have no children and succeeded in remaining childless . I know a few couples who were unable to conceive and many more that shouldn't have though. Fwiw, I am a catholic and this really isn't something that the church focuses on. How would anyone know if a couple is childless by choice? It's no ones business.

You do now!

[SPHASH]

I'm single at the moment but if I ever do get married I'm not having kids. I have no desire to change diapers, go to school plays, deal with an unruly teenager, and worry about offspring for the rest of my life. I know I am not very nurturing. If God wanted me to have kids he would have installed that desire in me.

[August]

Having too many kids is like being rabbits... having no kids is selfish... what is the desired number of children that people should have according to this judgmental holyman?

It doesn't really matter, since according to him you're not allowed to do anything to avoid having them anyway. Maybe having the sanctioned number is a sign of divine favor?

day care is out of the question; in our area, it is in the neighborhood of $800/month).

LOL you know how cheap that is, don't you? That is just a fraction more than after school care is here. Afterschool is where they herd them in marginally supervised groups of 20 kids per adult and still charge through the nose. $2500 a month for a baby here. Which, yeah. That's why there are so many SAHMs.

[eh02]

If ANYTHING is selfish, it's having kids against your instincts when you don't want them or can't support them. Someone who does not like or want children is the last person that should be bringing one in to the world. We have plenty of unwanted and unloved children here already. And there are many fields of work, volunteering etc. where you can make the world (for both adults and children) a better place, whether you have kids or not. I work in a public service field already and have plenty of meaning in my life as a non-parent.

I don't know if I want or will ever have kids myself - my SO leans toward no, and I think I could be happy either way. But for me alone, even if I did think I wanted them, I know I would not unless I was very, very financially secure. Honestly, I don't know if I will ever be financially secure enough to meet my own standards of "ready." Of course, that doesn't mean I think other people should or do have the same standards, and I wouldn't expect them to. You can raise happy, healthy kids even on a small income. But it's not something I'm interested in.

I can admit that it is partially selfish. I want a nice quality of life and don't want to sacrifice things I enjoy if I don't have to. But...eh. It's easy for people who won't be raising the child themselves to have an opinion on how someone else should start a family. It's nobody's business but the future parent.

[catlady]

2 of my friends were getting married back in 1991. Catholic, in a region with a high Catholic population. She was pregnant, but the church will turn a blind eye if you marry before the birth. they attended the Pre-Cana (I know I spelled that wrong, it's the meetings with the priest before your wedding), and their priest said they needed to promise that they would have three children in the next five years. my friends did not want to lie to the priest, so they said, "no, we don't think we can support three children right away." they were 20 and 23 and still in college. the priest refused to marry them because of that answer. they got married at city hall after the baby was born. it turned out that she had a very difficult pregnancy and a last-minute C-section because the baby's head was so big. they never bothered to find out if the church would have excused them from having 2 more babies after that. maybe the pope would have called them selfish for stopping.

[catlady]

It doesn't really matter, since according to him you're not allowed to do anything to avoid having them anyway. Maybe having the sanctioned number is a sign of divine favor?

LOL you know how cheap that is, don't you? That is just a fraction more than after school care is here. Afterschool is where they herd them in marginally supervised groups of 20 kids per adult and still charge through the nose. $2500 a month for a baby here. Which, yeah. That's why there are so many SAHMs.

Yeah, I guess it is cheap. I used $800/mo because I know a coworker who has said she pays $200/week. rates are set by our state, so maybe her daughter doesn't do full days (I don't know her well enough to ask for more details).

[August]

Yeah, I guess it is cheap. I used $800/mo because I know a coworker who has said she pays $200/week. rates are set by our state, so maybe her daughter doesn't do full days (I don't know her well enough to ask for more details).

It's highly regional. It is entirely possible you live somewhere it's very cheap, but it actually sounds like it might be subsidised. That would never happen here, it's un-American, accepting that society needs well cared for children to be the next generation of tax payers and voters.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Is he so out of touch with reality that he didn't realize he chose to be child-free? :lol:

The Catholic teaching is that if you do not plan on having children you ought to enter a religious order. I honestly think that half the reason that the church is digging in its heels on sexual mores is that it sees its labor force drying up as all those would-be priests and nuns instead choose the lives they actually want to live.

[Peas n carrots]

It's highly regional. It is entirely possible you live somewhere it's very cheap, but it actually sounds like it might be subsidised. That would never happen here, it's un-American, accepting that society needs well cared for children to be the next generation of tax payers and voters.

Also remember in cheaper areas the pay reflects the cheapness of the area. I have worked in places where if you lived in Cali, your salary was automatically 15% more than what the base rate was because it is more expensive to live there. So $800 a month where the AP lives could be taking the same % out of her paycheck as someone living in say, New York for housing. Apples to apples and all that...

[Ursula]

You do now!

Another one here! :dance: I've known I would be childFREE (don't call it childless, folks. The "less" implies we're missing out on something) since I was about 11. I have a ton of much older first cousins so they were all having kids when I was around that age and I discovered I was very put off by babies. All my friends were jealous that I had the chance to play with little newborns and toddlers in the family and I was all "gross, get these things away from me". Never liked human children, never will. I didn't even like myself until I was 24 :D

31, single, SPAYED. The first thing I ask when I meet men now is "do you have kids?" (because I don't want to be anyone's step-mother either) and the second is "do you want them?". If it's a "yes" to either of those questions they're sent packing.

As for Frankie's comments here's a translation: "People aren't having enough children these days - children who will grow up to be more tithers for the Catholic Church. We're losing money here! Better call them all selfish and make them feel bad". How many kids do YOU have, Frankie?

[RosyDaisy]

You do now!

Add me to the list. I never wanted kids, always used BC, have never been pregnant, and had a hysterectomy a few years ago. I'm happy being child free. Having said that, my heart goes out to women/couples who want to conceive but can't.