Christians and guns

[Toothfairy]

I'm wondering if it's Christ like for Christians to own a gun. I'm not trying to start a gun debate here. But since everything everyone else does is against God wouldn't carrying a gun and killing someone be against God as well? And why carry a gun everywhere when god can protect you. All you need is prayer, right? If you have a gun doesn't that mean you're willing to take a life? Something that God is against.

*I'm also not against guns, just stricter gun laws* Just hate the selective outrage.

[KittenMitten]

Sorry. Somehow posted same thing twice and don't know how to get rid of one of them.

[KittenMitten]

I guess I don't understand the tie in of Christianity and guns, but it does seem connected somehow. Good, heaven bound Christian=have to own a gun. I think I have always been a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. I do believe in background checks and do not see the need of assault rifles. I know I don't want a gun in my house, but that is my choice. I know many hunters and do not want them to lose their 2nd Amendment right. But yes, Toothfairy, I think there is a connection. I guess it is that far right Christians do not want to be told what to do. They seem to be on a knee-jerk reaction rather than thinking.

[Cleopatra7]

I think that the right-wing gun culture stems from the myth of rugged, individualistic pioneers/Puritans protecting their land, property, and women from savage dark-skinned others. Part of it also comes from the after effects of the Lost Cause ideology, which posits that it's possible to be an American patriot while simultaneously being a traitor to the government of said country, and that white men need guns to fight off oppressive governments and uppity slaves. If the Lost Cause ideology had been nipped in the bud in the 19th century, rather than encouraged via plantation porn like "The Birth of a Nation" and "Gone With the Wind," I think much of this gun culture wouldn't exist.

[kat]

I'm a middle-aged Christian woman who grew up in a non-gun household and was never interested in them and considered them dangerous. However, the last couple of years, my thoughts and beliefs have changed. It's not related to my faith per se, but, the truth is, the older I become, the more evil I see in the world. You can be minding your own business, doing all the right things regarding personal safety and, yet, danger can still find you. As women, we are particularly vulnerable when it comes to rape and sexual assaults.

[whoviana]

As to the biblical God: I don't know how many villages, countries, families did he raid out out of pure anger, I can imagine him raiding out the villages of Sodom and Gomorra with a machine gun like Rambo. Because he didn't like it.

[RosyDaisy]

When I was growing up guns were used for hunting. Not once has my father ever used a gun in self defense or too defend our family. I personally don't own a gun and don't want one. Given my medical problems, I'm scared I'll accidentally shot myself. I'm not opposed to guns, just criminals and mentally unstable people owning them.

[eri]

I think Cleopatra nailed it on the head. It is cultural, like strict Muslims and burqas or independent baptists and dresses.

[Anny Nym]

I´m voting for "Cleopatra7-nailed it" too!

Rather obsessive "gun -culture" debattes seem to be a american thing, not a christian thing.

[jerkit]

Mr. Jerkit is a Christian and a gun owner.

That's all I got.

[hahe77]

As women, we are particularly vulnerable when it comes to rape and sexual assaults.

We just discussed this in my sociology class. The truth is only 1 of 3 rapes is committed by strangers. I don't think women are likely to use a gun against a friend or relative that is attempting a sexual assault against them.

[gilamomster]

I'm definitely not a Christian but most definitely a gun owner.

It all comes down to rights for me and probably for a lot of Christians too.

[FoxyMoxie]

Certainly I would understand gun ownership to be prohibited by the Bible. But it is definitely a cultural thing - in countries with gun control laws (like my own), owning a gun isn't seen as Christian or non-Christian because most people don't own a gun anyway. Guns just aren't part of our culture in general.

AFAIK the second amendment is about people being able to form a militia against a tyrannical government, not being able to own a gun because you think it will protect you against rape (it won't). The whole 'it's my right!!!!' is a very libertarian (as opposed to communitarian, not the political party) attitude, whereas the Bible has a much more communitarian view of how a society should work - that what's good for the community as a whole (eg not being killed by a gun) is more important than an individual's rights (eg the right to own a gun). But then the Bible's attitude to economics is distinctly communitarian and very un-Republican, so clearly a lot of American Christians are pretty terrible at reading the Bible and listening to Jesus. The level to which Republicans have hoodwinked churches is astonishing.

There is a significant group of American Christians who would not own a gun, and that's members of Peace Churches - aka Anabaptists/Brethren/Quakers etc. Amish/Mennonites etc are all pacifist, as are leftwing Catholics (Catholic Worker Movement etc).

[Four is Enough]

I'm 60, am a Catholic, and grew up with guns in my home. They are for hunting. (food, not people.) While we think "the Lord will provide", we also think "The Lord helps those who help themselves"....

I do not currently have guns in my home, but will consider a handgun in the near future. It, however, will be in a gun safe that is keyed solely to my thumbprint. Until I can afford all of that, I will not have a gun in my home.

The guns in my childhood home were proudly kept in the living room in a glass fronted case, made by my great grandfather. It locked, but could easily have been opened. The key hung on a hook in back of the case, and the ammunition drawer unlocked with the same key. However, we never touched the guns, unless we were out on a hunting trip or cleaning the guns after one.

With my mindset, I can't understand someone saying that gun ownership is prohibited by the bible. A gun is a tool, nothing more. People kill with axes, bows/arrows, rocks, and anything else they can throw at/hit things with. Those arent' prohibited. Guns are just more efficient.

[FoxyMoxie]

Gun ownership for self-defence/killing would be prohibited by the Bible, not guns used to hunt - sorry, should have clarified. Anything used to kill people would be prohibited by the Bible, as per the Sermon on the Mount. The NT and early Church was strictly pacifist - this is why even when gentiles joined, they were bearded because one had to be clean-shaven to join the Roman army. It was a symbol of pacifism. This stopped when Constantine converted and being a Christian was politically advantageous.

[FoxyMoxie]

Also, 'God helps those who help themselves' is not in the Bible. 'God helps those who help others' would be more like it, and shooting someone is not really part of helping others. That said, the idea that prayer is enough to physically protect you/heal you/bring you a parking space is a misinterpretation of what prayer is for. I'm a Christian but I still use medication and other medical help, for instance - I would see it as God working through the scientists and doctors and nurses who help me. That's not a dismissal of those people's gifts and hard work by the way, but an affirmation of it.

[Dandruff]

Many pro-lifers seem to support candidates who are pro-death penalty (but advertise as pro-life). It doesn't surprise me that some would own guns. I'm puzzled by the apparent contradiction though. Is it a question of dealing in absolutes with regard to sin and innocence? Fetuses and Jesus were without sin but everyone else has sinned and so may - depending on their particular sins and/or luck with a jury - be subject to death? How much concern has there been for the others who were being crucified around the time of Jesus? How big a difference in philosophy is there between most mainstream Christians and the ultra-conservative families we discuss on FJ?

[kat]

I can only speak for myself but believe in pro-choice/access to birth control planning and meds/supplies AND care for the little ones after they exit the birth canal. I am anti-death penalty. I believe in carrying a gun for self-protection but hope and pray will never need to use.

[kat]

Would like to show some love and appreciation to the posters in this thread. We may not all agree or have the same perspective but really appreciate a nice, respectful discussion.

[formergothardite]

I am not bothered by people who have guns for hunting, self-protection, or even just collecting and shooting them. I'm disturbed by the people who act like they can't wait to have the opportunity to shoot somebody they view as the enemy. There are some gun-toting Christians who act practically gleeful at the idea of a war starting where they get to gun down people to protect the Bible. Those people freak me out especially since they view anything as an attack on the Bible.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Would like to show some love and appreciation to the posters in this thread. We may not all agree or have the same perspective but really appreciate a nice, respectful discussion.

And this is why I've stuck with FJ for nearly six years. Most of our discussions regarding thorny topics are pretty respectful and open-minded.

On-Topic: I think a majority of gun owners are responsible, decent folks. I know a lot of gun owners who are hunters, and my friend's hubby is a cop.

However, the gun issue has been over-taken by obnoxious thugs like Sarah Palin and Ted Nugent. In fact, I think NRA should stand for "Nugent Runs Amok."

And guess what? There are liberals who are into guns!

[Four is Enough]

And this is why I've stuck with FJ for nearly six years. Most of our discussions regarding thorny topics are pretty respectful and open-minded.

On-Topic: I think a majority of gun owners are responsible, decent folks. I know a lot of gun owners who are hunters, and my friend's hubby is a cop.

However, the gun issue has been over-taken by obnoxious thugs like Sarah Palin and Ted Nugent. In fact, I think NRA should stand for "Nugent Runs Amok."

[

Agreed with most of the above. Chortling at the new meaning of "NRA". For the bolded, I do think that even among the "persecuted" and "attacked because Bible" there are few who would actually fire on someone who believed differently. Perhaps I should say I HOPE so. :D

[longskirtstshirts]

I grew up in a house with many guns. I had no idea where my dad stored them until I was old enough to go hunting. They were always under lock and key and they were for hunting, which a lot of Christians believe is "biblical" because God put the animals here for us to eat, use (i.e. horses and oxen for riding and pulling or a dog for companionship).

We did carry a handgun on long roadtrips. That was for my mom or dad to protect their family if they had to. Prayer is not a get out of jail free card. Asking for anything, even safety, in a prayer is utterly ridiculous. The man died on a cross for you. Don't ask Him for anything else. A "mature prayer" in my opinion, is more of a meditator who does a lot more listening to God than talking to Him, and the only thing you can pray is that His will is done. It might just be His will for you to shoot an attacker if that is what it comes down to.

(Disclaimer: I do not own a gun at this time. I don't think people should be carrying around assault rifles. I do support the Second Amendment.)

Edited for riffles. Very ironic in this thread. :lol:

[eri]

I'm 60, am a Catholic, and grew up with guns in my home. They are for hunting. (food, not people.) While we think "the Lord will provide", we also think "The Lord helps those who help themselves"....

I do not currently have guns in my home, but will consider a handgun in the near future. It, however, will be in a gun safe that is keyed solely to my thumbprint. Until I can afford all of that, I will not have a gun in my home.

The guns in my childhood home were proudly kept in the living room in a glass fronted case, made by my great grandfather. It locked, but could easily have been opened. The key hung on a hook in back of the case, and the ammunition drawer unlocked with the same key. However, we never touched the guns, unless we were out on a hunting trip or cleaning the guns after one.

With my mindset, I can't understand someone saying that gun ownership is prohibited by the bible. A gun is a tool, nothing more. People kill with axes, bows/arrows, rocks, and anything else they can throw at/hit things with. Those arent' prohibited. Guns are just more efficient.

Haha, we are exact opposites: I believe a gun should only be used on a human. I call my handgun my robber-hunting rifle :)

[salex]

I have little problem with people owning guns. I was raised in a rural setting and as far as I knew everyone had guns. THat doesnt' mean I saw people carrying them around, in fact usually the opposite, But when I was a kid, it was not uncommon for people to have a loaded gun (shotgun or rifle) by the front door, or in a closet, or in the office or in the pickup (ours was behind the seat, other people had them in gunracks. I didn't see a lot of pistols, but rifles and shotguns were ubiquitous.They were given as awards to HS kids by the ag teacher or for selling magazines for sr. trip. I didn't know of any accidental hunting deaths until I was in my late 20s or early 30s, and that was when a guy not raised around guns made a fatal error and killed his brother in law on a hunting trip.

What did not exist among my family and friends at the time was this quasi patriotic, i can open carry to the pizza hut and you can't stop me stuff. I have no problem with guns, was always planning to get a concealed carry permit but never have (because, it is not urgent to me). We target shoot, hubs sometimes hunts, but would rather shoot skeet or sporting clays, and I have relatives who shot competitively.

But the militant open carry people make me leery, as do the people who think if they have enough guns they can defent their house against some future un-named hoard who wants their whatever,.. food, wife, house, etc. My state is trying to do two things. They are wanting to pass what they call a "constitutional gun carry" bill, ie, no permit needed for concealed or open carry (the state already passed bills making any local gun ordinances restricting carry more than the state no longer valid) , and they are trying to recruit a gun manufacturer to the state to set up shop because (true or not) the administration and leaders of our state believe that guns manufactured in our state and purchased in our state would not be subject to any federal rules/laws on firearms.. no background checks, registrations, etc, now or in the future.

I have gone to gun ranges where the area next to me seemed like stereotypical gang members-- and I was able to say "2nd amendment at work." and not worry about it. But somehow, when my state starts removing rules about taking weapons on campus, no background check, no training for concealed carry, etc, it makes me very nervous.