Christians and guns

[FoxyMoxie]

Many pro-lifers seem to support candidates who are pro-death penalty (but advertise as pro-life). It doesn't surprise me that some would own guns. I'm puzzled by the apparent contradiction though. Is it a question of dealing in absolutes with regard to sin and innocence? Fetuses and Jesus were without sin but everyone else has sinned and so may - depending on their particular sins and/or luck with a jury - be subject to death? How much concern has there been for the others who were being crucified around the time of Jesus? How big a difference in philosophy is there between most mainstream Christians and the ultra-conservative families we discuss on FJ?

Catholics are anti-death penalty - look up 'consistent life ethic'. I live in a country with no death penalty so can't really answer your question but it puzzles me too re pro-lifers who are pro-death penalty.

[FoxyMoxie]

Re hunting - I have no issue with people owning guns to hunt. In the UK, due to the Enclosure Act, most land is owned by upper-class landowners and 'hunting' on that land is actually poaching and illegal. So we don't have that cultural norm of people hunting for food/as a hobby, hunting is an upper-class thing here (and by upper-class I mean aristocracy/gentry) and done for sport not food. I think that's partly why guns are just so alien here - there's nothing the average person would use them for, and even our police don't normally carry guns. You can own a gun in the UK, you just need a license and background checks - almost all gun owners are farmers.

[Toothfairy]

I cant imagine owning a gun. I really don't like them tbh. But my personal feelings shouldn't dictate what others should do. I have no problem with people having guns. I just wish there were stricter gun laws and responsibility. A gun isn't a toy. Owning and using one is a very serious matter. I brought up christians and guns because people fight so hard for an unborn child, don't want women to make choices regarding birth control or their own bodies, gays cant marry and some people fight so hard to take other people's rights away. Everything is against god. But isn't taking a life against god as well? Which is why I never understood how someone can be pro life and for the death penalty. Or pro life and see the stories about kids and innocent people being killed by guns everyday but don't try to protest for stricter gun laws and better mental health services. Imagine if the government said no more guns or christians are denied certain things . People especially christians would complain that their rights are being violated. But it's okay to take other people's rights away and try to push your beliefs and feelings on others but when it comes to yours it's wrong?

[Howl]

But the militant open carry people make me leery, as do the people who think if they have enough guns they can defent their house against some future un-named hoard who wants their whatever,.. food, wife, house, etc. My state is trying to do two things. They are wanting to pass what they call a "constitutional gun carry" bill, ie, no permit needed for concealed or open carry (the state already passed bills making any local gun ordinances restricting carry more than the state no longer valid) , and they are trying to recruit a gun manufacturer to the state to set up shop because (true or not) the administration and leaders of our state believe that guns manufactured in our state and purchased in our state would not be subject to any federal rules/laws on firearms.. no background checks, registrations, etc, now or in the future.

They scare the crap out of me, too, Salex! They scared Dan Patrick enough that he moved them from not being on the 2015 legislative slate to the top. They threatened a state representative to the point that he requested protection for himself and his family and a panic button on his desk. Law enforcement and educators and many (if not most) citizens do not support their position. And yet, the have bullied their way into getting this extreme legislation considered.

Last session, two years ago, legislators passed a law to allow those with concealed carry licenses to bypass the metal detector in the state capitol bldg, yeah the metal detector that screens regular citizens for weapons. Yeah, think about that.

[Maggie Mae]

Last time I talked about guns on FJ, there was a very different outcome.

I know plenty of mostly liberal people who have guns. And plenty of non-liberals that have guns. But the non-liberal folk tend to be a little more vocal about their gun rights, where as people I know who are mostly liberal just know it's their right and they have a gun and so what? Maybe they hunt(probably), maybe they keep it for hiking, (bear spray is more effective, but some people have a psychological issue about bears that charge at them), maybe they just like how it looks in a safe. Doesn't matter, it's allowed, it's legal, let's move on.

[kat]

formergothardite and salex have touched on something important, though. Rabid fanatics of any type but especially religion and politics alarm me.

[FoxyMoxie]

Last time I talked about guns on FJ, there was a very different outcome.

I know plenty of mostly liberal people who have guns. And plenty of non-liberals that have guns. But the non-liberal folk tend to be a little more vocal about their gun rights, where as people I know who are mostly liberal just know it's their right and they have a gun and so what? Maybe they hunt(probably), maybe they keep it for hiking, (bear spray is more effective, but some people have a psychological issue about bears that charge at them), maybe they just like how it looks in a safe. Doesn't matter, it's allowed, it's legal, let's move on.

This discussion is specifically on Christianity and guns, though. There's a lot of things that are legal that the Bible/Jesus frowns upon. I would say that gun ownership for anything but hunting is one of them, the same with any other weapon that is used to harm others. The community of believers takes priority over individual rights - the Bible has a clear communitarian stance.

Also, liberal v conservative is a false dichotomy. I am a leftist, not a liberal. I realise that true leftism is somewhat rare in the US (the Democrats would be considered relatively conservative in Europe, def not leftwing), but even so - liberalism as a political ideology/philosophy would tend to be pro gun rights. It is not the same as being leftwing at all.

[Cleopatra7]

Determining who is and is not allowed to carry weapons has traditionally been a litmus test for ideas about power and citizenship. In classical Athens, for example, only male citizens were allowed to have weapons and armor. In medieval Europe, only knights and aristocrats could have weapons (monks and clergy were theoretically not supposed to touch weapons, but often found ways around it when they needed to take up arms). During Japan's Meiji Restoration, the samurai were stripped of their swords, an indication that they were to be subservient to the new Japanese state. Similarly, in the United States, race has always been a factor in the question of who is allowed to have guns. The NRA supported gun control laws when it was a matter of stripping black activists like the Black Panthers of the right to bear arms:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ns/308608/

(link not broken because it's the Atlantic)

When a white man can carry a fully loaded semi-automatic rifle in public, but a black man gets shot for carrying a toy gun in a Wal-Mart, that sends a powerful message about who is allowed to carry weapons in our society and who has the power of life and death:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/2 ... 76574.html

(link not broken because it's HuffPo)

Also note that Ohio is an open carry state, so theoretically it shouldn't have mattered that Mr. Crawford was carrying a toy gun or an AK-47, as it was supposedly within his rights to carry either in public.

[Howl]

Today's op-ed page in the Austin American Statesman (Texas) featured pieces by opposing viewpoints on open carry. Both pieces were a little weird, but the Pro open carry writer (state Rep. Jonathan Strickland) used the term "God-given right" multiple times in reference to the "right" to carry any weapon anywhere in any way at any time, without interference from annoying regulations, like requirements to take classes and get a permit, because it's a right directly from GOD. God is down with this! Got it?

Jonathan Strickland went to community college, runs an oil and gas consulting bidness, is an adamantly free market, pro-life Baptist conservative and vowed to be the most conservative representative in his first stint in the Texas legislature, which he was.

In addition to Rep. Strickland, the open carry bill in the state legislature is co-authored by 6 representatives; not sure who's supporting the state Senate bill. Unfortunately, this is likely, very likely, to pass. Here's a quote from Rep. Strickland's piece:

The founders agreed that every person has the right to protect themselves as they see fit, without government permission. They saw these rights as natural rights, given by our Creator. These rights are not given by government but are merely protected by the Constitution as a natural right endowed by our Creator.

Because it is a god-given right to carry any weapon anywhere in any way at any time, without interference from annoying regulations, and because Constitution, anyone not supporting open carry is a Traitor and the penalty for Treason is death. Got it?

This sentiment has been posted by Texas open carry supporters on FaceBook and specifically by a person who was very aggressive in person to a state representative who does not support open carry. This representative now has a panic button on his desk and a security detail for his family, because death threat for opposing god-given right.

[polecat]

This discussion is specifically on Christianity and guns, though. There's a lot of things that are legal that the Bible/Jesus frowns upon. I would say that gun ownership for anything but hunting is one of them, the same with any other weapon that is used to harm others. The community of believers takes priority over individual rights - the Bible has a clear communitarian stance.

Also, liberal v conservative is a false dichotomy. I am a leftist, not a liberal. I realise that true leftism is somewhat rare in the US (the Democrats would be considered relatively conservative in Europe, def not leftwing), but even so - liberalism as a political ideology/philosophy would tend to be pro gun rights. It is not the same as being leftwing at all.

I think I'd add sport shooting. We have guns (largely for my husband's work), and I really enjoy shooting targets. I doubt we will ever use guns to defend ourselves not because we live in a safe area (we absolutely do not) but because anyone who is keeping their guns properly stored is going to take more time getting the guns unlocked, getting the ammo out, getting the gun loaded, etc. than they would punching 911 into a phone and grabbing a hammer (or whatever). I do not have a CCW and never plan to. My husband may some day, but he's also highly trained and is a licensed firearms instructor. I quite frankly do not like the idea of the average person carrying concealed or open carry.

[Palimpsest]

I think that the right-wing gun culture stems from the myth of rugged, individualistic pioneers/Puritans protecting their land, property, and women from savage dark-skinned others. Part of it also comes from the after effects of the Lost Cause ideology, which posits that it's possible to be an American patriot while simultaneously being a traitor to the government of said country, and that white men need guns to fight off oppressive governments and uppity slaves. If the Lost Cause ideology had been nipped in the bud in the 19th century, rather than encouraged via plantation porn like "The Birth of a Nation" and "Gone With the Wind," I think much of this gun culture wouldn't exist.

I think Cleopatra7 nailed it here. And Anny Nym. While Christianity and guns probably isn't exclusively an American debate, it's probably argued more in the US than anywhere else these days. With a lot of people misusing, in my opinion, the 2nd Amendment to support their arguments against gun control and for owning assault rifles.

For biblical arguments against guns, see the Society of Friends (Quakers) one of the historic peace churches. The Peace Testimony is a "testimony" (committed actions) not a "belief," but it is a core testimony and it is bible-based. Jesus said love your enemies and all that, and the Friends lay out the biblical rational very well for their testimony. Beginning with a refusal to bear arms and oppose participation in war, the Friends oppose violence and believe in peace and reconciliation. However, they also believe in active, sometimes very active, nonviolent methods in the cause of social justice.

However, if you google "quakers and guns" or "quakers and weapons" there is a ton of stuff out there, mostly from American Friends IME, arguing war, guns and gun ownership from all perspectives. What about Richard Nixon? Is it OK for Friends to own guns ever? Look at Annie Oakley! What about guns just for hunting? What about gun control?

This article is interesting: http://www.friendsjournal.org/quaker-ar ... n-control/

[Howl]

I find it so bizarre that self proclaimed followers of Christ would also be pro open carry. The irony of it escapes them. But then, religion adapts to culture and not the other way around.

Cleopatra 7 nailed it, as well. Let me psychoanalyze a bit and say that some of these open carry advocates are, um, compensating. When you have a gun OUT WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT, it confers a status of being able to grant life or death at your personal whim, and hence one feels more powerful. Concealed carry can't do that.

The public health consequences are never brought up by open carry enthusiasts.

Off the top of my head:

Open carry without restriction will mean more guns around that a child might find, with tragic results

Open carry without restriction will be even worse news for women living in (realistic) fear that an ex or soon to be ex will hunt her down and murder her

Open carry without restriction will mean more suicides, because more guns are readily available

Open carry without restriction will mean more instances of an argument devolving into a fatal encounter

[Toothfairy]

Determining who is and is not allowed to carry weapons has traditionally been a litmus test for ideas about power and citizenship. In classical Athens, for example, only male citizens were allowed to have weapons and armor. In medieval Europe, only knights and aristocrats could have weapons (monks and clergy were theoretically not supposed to touch weapons, but often found ways around it when they needed to take up arms). During Japan's Meiji Restoration, the samurai were stripped of their swords, an indication that they were to be subservient to the new Japanese state. Similarly, in the United States, race has always been a factor in the question of who is allowed to have guns. The NRA supported gun control laws when it was a matter of stripping black activists like the Black Panthers of the right to bear arms:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ns/308608/

(link not broken because it's the Atlantic)

When a white man can carry a fully loaded semi-automatic rifle in public, but a black man gets shot for carrying a toy gun in a Wal-Mart, that sends a powerful message about who is allowed to carry weapons in our society and who has the power of life and death:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/2 ... 76574.html

(link not broken because it's HuffPo)

Also note that Ohio is an open carry state, so theoretically it shouldn't have mattered that Mr. Crawford was carrying a toy gun or an AK-47, as it was supposedly within his rights to carry either in public.

Thiss. You are so correct. Love your posts. Laws are and created for white people specially men. When I h rear d about that Walmart story it sadden me. So a white guy can carry a gun even open carry without problems, but as soon as a black guy carries a gun he gets the police called on him or is killed

[Toothfairy]

Doesn’t having a gun imply a lack of trust that God will take care of you? I mean Christians quote the bible day and night but for guns it's okay? And owning a gun & legal rights are government not god. Isn't taking a life sin? Can  you be pro-life and pro-gun at the same time?

[FoxyMoxie]

Doesn’t having a gun imply a lack of trust that God will take care of you? I mean Christians quote the bible day and night but for guns it's okay? And owning a gun & legal rights are government not god. Isn't taking a life sin? Can  you be pro-life and pro-gun at the same time?

Well, as a Christian who wouldn't carry a gun, I wouldn't assume God would take care of me in the sense of protecting me from all danger. That seems a bit ridiculous. And not all Christians quote the Bible day and night - most Christians in the world are Catholic or Orthodox, so it's a tiny (albeit very loud) minority.

[Rider]

Interesting discussion. I don't post a lot, but I've been lurking for years. I'm a Christian, gun owner, and (Gasp!) NRA member. I appreciate the debate remaining civil.

I'd like to make a point that I don't think has been made, the 2nd amendment was added to the Constitution because our founders knew that someday, weapons ownership may be the last defense against tyranny. If you remember your history, the first shots of the American Revolution were fired because the redcoats were sent from Boston to Concord to seize the powder and arms that the minutemen had stored there. The Brits got their heads handed to them at the Battle of Concord and ran back to Boston with their tails between their legs (suffering many more casualties on their way back from the American snipers).

The Americans were able to beat back the redcoats because of civilian gun ownership. The British weren't stupid, they knew the Americans were armed and went to go take the weapons and powder. Thanks to Paul Revere, we were waiting for them. End of history lesson :D

Fast forward to the present day, yes, the 2A is the last defense against tyranny, but all the gun owners in the United States, even those who own so-called "Assault Weapons" are no match for the might of the United States Military. Civilian overthrow of the United States Government is not going to happen.

So why do I own guns? To protect my family. I do believe I have a God-given duty to protect my family. I've had a gun(s) in my house for over 20 years and I've never once had to remove it from its storage location to protect my family. But knowing it's there make me feel safer. Also, I don't think God has a problem with gun ownership. Jesus Himself seemed to endorse weapons ownership in Luke 22.

Also, shooting is just plain fun. I go to the range a few times per year. Usually with friends. I don't hunt, don't really care to, but I'm not opposed to trying it someday.

Again, thank to all who kept this civil. Opposing discourse if kind of fun, and it's nice to hear the other side of the issue. I may not agree with you, but our 1st amendment gives us the right to vocally disagree with each other.

[Howl]

Fast forward to the present day, yes, the 2A is the last defense against tyranny, but all the gun owners in the United States, even those who own so-called "Assault Weapons" are no match for the might of the United States Military. Civilian overthrow of the United States Government is not going to happen.

rider, thanks for the thoughtful post and the history refresher!

I agree that civilian overthrow of the United States Government is not going to happen. My concern is with the perception among extremists/paranoiacs/paramilitarists/patriot groups/conspiracy theorists that it may (or will) become necessary to wage war against the US government and who are arming themselves for this eventuality. Although they not be successful, they have the potential to do a fair amount of damage at a local level. I suspect at least some of those who rallied for open carry recently at the Texas capitol are on the fanatical end of the scale and that's why they come across as "gun nuts" and scare many people.

The Christian Patriot Movement, Posse Comitatus, Montana Freemen, Hutaree are all examples of this thinking and who retain some element of Christian identity (trying to stay on topic with this thread).

[Palimpsest]

Interesting discussion. I don't post a lot, but I've been lurking for years. I'm a Christian, gun owner, and (Gasp!) NRA member. I appreciate the debate remaining civil.

I'd like to make a point that I don't think has been made, the 2nd amendment was added to the Constitution because our founders knew that someday, weapons ownership may be the last defense against tyranny. If you remember your history, the first shots of the American Revolution were fired because the redcoats were sent from Boston to Concord to seize the powder and arms that the minutemen had stored there. The Brits got their heads handed to them at the Battle of Concord and ran back to Boston with their tails between their legs (suffering many more casualties on their way back from the American snipers).

The Americans were able to beat back the redcoats because of civilian gun ownership. The British weren't stupid, they knew the Americans were armed and went to go take the weapons and powder. Thanks to Paul Revere, we were waiting for them. End of history lesson :D

Fast forward to the present day, yes, the 2A is the last defense against tyranny, but all the gun owners in the United States, even those who own so-called "Assault Weapons" are no match for the might of the United States Military. Civilian overthrow of the United States Government is not going to happen.

So why do I own guns? To protect my family. I do believe I have a God-given duty to protect my family. I've had a gun(s) in my house for over 20 years and I've never once had to remove it from its storage location to protect my family. But knowing it's there make me feel safer. Also, I don't think God has a problem with gun ownership. Jesus Himself seemed to endorse weapons ownership in Luke 22.

Also, shooting is just plain fun. I go to the range a few times per year. Usually with friends. I don't hunt, don't really care to, but I'm not opposed to trying it someday.

Again, thank to all who kept this civil. Opposing discourse if kind of fun, and it's nice to hear the other side of the issue. I may not agree with you, but our 1st amendment gives us the right to vocally disagree with each other.

Cor blimey! :lol: As someone mentioned on another thread, history is always written by the winners. This is why I spend April 17th hiding under my bed waiting for Rebels Patriots to drag me out and execute me on Lexington Common. It's just down the road! Tyranny? Don't you mean benevolent monarchy? Redcoats running back to Boston with their tails between their legs (actually a tactical retreat followed by a siege of Boston)? The Loyalists (conservatively 15% of the population) having to flee for their lives to Canada, Britain, and Florida? Oh my!

Um, let's keep this civil shall we? Free Jinger has an international readership!

It's OK, I'm joking. After 30+ years in the US I've actually lost count of the number of times Americans have innocently asked me if the British celebrate the 4th of July. I always get a big laugh when I say, "No. I'm afraid we lost that war!"

Otherwise I agree with Howl, other than to say that the Founding Fathers might not have added the 2nd amendment - or would have reworded it carefully - if they could have anticipated today's USA.

And, back to topic, Christians can certainly cherry-pick the bible to support either gun-ownership or not owning or using any weapons.

[Rider]

Cor blimey! :lol: As someone mentioned on another thread, history is always written by the winners. This is why I spend April 17th hiding under my bed waiting for Rebels Patriots to drag me out and execute me on Lexington Common. It's just down the road! Tyranny? Don't you mean benevolent monarchy? Redcoats running back to Boston with their tails between their legs (actually a tactical retreat followed by a siege of Boston)? The Loyalists (conservatively 15% of the population) having to flee for their lives to Canada, Britain, and Florida? Oh my!

Um, let's keep this civil shall we? Free Jinger has an international readership!

It's OK, I'm joking. After 30+ years in the US I've actually lost count of the number of times Americans have innocently asked me if the British celebrate the 4th of July. I always get a big laugh when I say, "No. I'm afraid we lost that war!"

Otherwise I agree with Howl, other than to say that the Founding Fathers might not have added the 2nd amendment - or would have reworded it carefully - if they could have anticipated today's USA.

And, back to topic, Christians can certainly cherry-pick the bible to support either gun-ownership or not owning or using any weapons.

Awesome response, very clever! I had a good laugh a few minutes ago.

Bush 43 said it best when he said that we have no better friend than Great Britain. (After the 9/11 attack).

[formergothardite]

Cor blimey! :lol: As someone mentioned on another thread, history is always written by the winners. This is why I spend April 17th hiding under my bed waiting for Rebels Patriots to drag me out and execute me on Lexington Common. It's just down the road! Tyranny? Don't you mean benevolent monarchy? Redcoats running back to Boston with their tails between their legs (actually a tactical retreat followed by a siege of Boston)? The Loyalists (conservatively 15% of the population) having to flee for their lives to Canada, Britain, and Florida? Oh my!

Um, let's keep this civil shall we? Free Jinger has an international readership!

It's OK, I'm joking. After 30+ years in the US I've actually lost count of the number of times Americans have innocently asked me if the British celebrate the 4th of July. I always get a big laugh when I say, "No. I'm afraid we lost that war!"

Otherwise I agree with Howl, other than to say that the Founding Fathers might not have added the 2nd amendment - or would have reworded it carefully - if they could have anticipated today's USA.

And, back to topic, Christians can certainly cherry-pick the bible to support either gun-ownership or not owning or using any weapons.

You mean you don't think the Founding Fathers were thinking of this woman when writing the 2nd amendment? :lol:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/jihad-barbie

We have a gun but in case of a home invasion we would be better off grabbing the large cast iron frying pan I got from my grandma to use as a weapon since the gun is kept unloaded and locked in a safe with the ammunition locked in another safe. Keeping a gun easily accessible with children in the house is just not a good idea, IMO. The chances of kids getting it are much higher than the chances of us needing to use it to defend ourselves.

[FoxyMoxie]

Interesting discussion. I don't post a lot, but I've been lurking for years. I'm a Christian, gun owner, and (Gasp!) NRA member. I appreciate the debate remaining civil.

I'd like to make a point that I don't think has been made, the 2nd amendment was added to the Constitution because our founders knew that someday, weapons ownership may be the last defense against tyranny. If you remember your history, the first shots of the American Revolution were fired because the redcoats were sent from Boston to Concord to seize the powder and arms that the minutemen had stored there. The Brits got their heads handed to them at the Battle of Concord and ran back to Boston with their tails between their legs (suffering many more casualties on their way back from the American snipers).

The Americans were able to beat back the redcoats because of civilian gun ownership. The British weren't stupid, they knew the Americans were armed and went to go take the weapons and powder. Thanks to Paul Revere, we were waiting for them. End of history lesson :D

Fast forward to the present day, yes, the 2A is the last defense against tyranny, but all the gun owners in the United States, even those who own so-called "Assault Weapons" are no match for the might of the United States Military. Civilian overthrow of the United States Government is not going to happen.

So why do I own guns? To protect my family. I do believe I have a God-given duty to protect my family. I've had a gun(s) in my house for over 20 years and I've never once had to remove it from its storage location to protect my family. But knowing it's there make me feel safer. Also, I don't think God has a problem with gun ownership. Jesus Himself seemed to endorse weapons ownership in Luke 22.

Also, shooting is just plain fun. I go to the range a few times per year. Usually with friends. I don't hunt, don't really care to, but I'm not opposed to trying it someday.

Again, thank to all who kept this civil. Opposing discourse if kind of fun, and it's nice to hear the other side of the issue. I may not agree with you, but our 1st amendment gives us the right to vocally disagree with each other.

How can you reconcile owning a weapon which is designed to kill or at least wound another person (given that you say that it's for protecting yourself and not hunting) with the Sermon on the Mount or even the 10 Commandments? Jesus clearly has a pacifist stance, and in any case taking another life is forbidden by the Bible. 'Turning the other cheek' is about peacefully preventing someone from hurting you, without violence - it required someone to hit you with their left hand, which was unclean since it was used for washing the body.

Luke 22 is not about all Christians' right to own a personal weapon - not sure how literally living in an occupied land and at serious risk of imminent death can be interpreted as Jesus saying 'hey folks, it's totally cool to shoot thy neighbour'.

Also, I'm not seeing the big deal about defeating the British, to be honest. Like, 'guns are good because they helped defeat the British' doesn't seem like much of a defence when it just left the US free to oppress more people. I mean, slavery is pretty tyrannous, surely? Freedom from the British really meant the freedom to enslave others. This isn't British butthurt, British occupation of the US is not justifiable - I'm not saying the British weren't tyrannous, just that they weren't ~ultimate tyranny~.

Sorry, I'm tired and hungry so this is coming across as really abrupt, but the whole 'God and guns' thing is serious American exceptionalism. This really does happen nowhere else - the Apostles were (at least post-Ascension) pacifists, the Church Fathers were pacifists, the entire Church was pacifist until Christianity was used to win wars and grab loot. Even if one believes in just wars existing, the fact that Christianity has such a solidly pacifist base and 'God and guns' doesn't happen in other majority-Christian countries should surely show that it's a weird aberration.

An American friend's dad is a pastor, and a seminary friend of his is spending time in Jordan. A Jordanian (Christian) student asked him how it was possible for him to be an American and a Christian. Food for thought.

[Toothfairy]

Well, as a Christian who wouldn't carry a gun, I wouldn't assume God would take care of me in the sense of protecting me from all danger. That seems a bit ridiculous. And not all Christians quote the Bible day and night - most Christians in the world are Catholic or Orthodox, so it's a tiny (albeit very loud) minority.

A lot of christians quote the bible when they're against something. Or to put others down. I'm not saying that you have no faith in God if you have a gun, my point is that christians(not all) are very two faced hypocritical people. They think they're superior to others (not all) and try to force their views and beliefs on others. But when push comes to shove they don't like it being done to them. They'll quote bible verses about life and rights but don't quote bible verses for themselves. Wouldn't God think it's wrong to have a gun and shoot or kill somebody? What happened to being pro life? Shouldn't god be the one to decide who lives and dies? Again I'm not talking about all Christians. And I'm not against guns, I would never own one but my views and personal feelings shouldn't dictate how others live.

[Mama Mia]

I'm Christian. I've never owned or shot a gun. I, personally, think the risk of shooting someone accidentally, or having a child access it is greater than the risk of an intruder coming to kill me. For me. I have no problem with people hunting for food, that's entirely different.

But -- I don't understand why it would be a contradiction to believe in " thou shall not kill" - and killing in self-defense. I may not have a gun, but if it came down to kill or be killed. Or someone killing my family -- I'd use any means at my disposal to kill first. Without guilt. Sure it might be a sin on some level -- but protection wins out, in my view anyway. I don't think Jesus meant " hey, no problem, let someone murder your child" when he talked about turning the other cheek.

[FloraKitty35]

I find it so bizarre that self proclaimed followers of Christ would also be pro open carry. The irony of it escapes them. But then, religion adapts to culture and not the other way around.

Cleopatra 7 nailed it, as well. Let me psychoanalyze a bit and say that some of these open carry advocates are, um, compensating. When you have a gun OUT WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT, it confers a status of being able to grant life or death at your personal whim, and hence one feels more powerful. Concealed carry can't do that.

The public health consequences are never brought up by open carry enthusiasts.

Off the top of my head:

Open carry without restriction will mean more guns around that a child might find, with tragic results

Open carry without restriction will be even worse news for women living in (realistic) fear that an ex or soon to be ex will hunt her down and murder her

Open carry without restriction will mean more suicides, because more guns are readily available

Open carry without restriction will mean more instances of an argument devolving into a fatal encounter

I agree about the power to grant life or death at a whim, to me it also screams (in the case of the male), "I have a small penis and a smaller brain."

[morri]

I think it is an americanism. I havent seen any European christians being crazy about guns.