Bringing Up Bates

[calimojo]

Isn't the kind of music Lawson does already against Gothard's teaching? I thought he only allowed traditional hymns and Classical music. Lawson does some sort of contemp country Christian stuff that sadly is not very good. I root for Lawson as he seems like a nice kid, and I was impressed by his yodeling, but his songwriting and guitar playing is not too great. Still, I imagine there is a decent audience out there for his music, but it doesn't seem too Gothard Approved.

Here are some thoughts and Questions: Is Gil still on the BoD? Is it possible, that Kelly and Gil themselves, are moving a bit away from the cult? Maybe they are beginning to question it?

Or is it all for show? Are they truly embarked on a subversive attempt to normalize the crazy cult for the mainstream Christian?

I don't know the answer to that, I just know that if I were a kid, and gun to my head, I had to choose the Duggars or the Bates to live with, I would hands down go for the Bates.

[nelliebelle1197]

I am not really a Duggar follower, but Michelle has struck me as rather, well, not too bright. Kelly seems to have more going on upstairs. Wonder if that has something to do with it? Not being too snappy upstairs coupled with the guilt of aborting J'Caleb AND 10 years of cameras might have just made it hard for DQ to cope with day to day interaction. Who knows?

[nelliebelle1197]

Board list. The Paine is chad's dad:

http://iblp.org/about-iblp/corporate-in ... -directors

Brandon is finishing up with Gothard's bible college and seems to be either working or interning at oak brook before he marries Gil's oldest daughter.

The board issued their last public statement on the molestation charges in July. He has had a lot of time to resign.

Eta: I just listened to a couple of Lawson's songs. I actually thought they were pretty good for an untrained kid. There was no backbeat. These would have been fine in my IFB school; FG can speak to Gothard better than I.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I think the Duggars and Bateses are equal when it comes to being shitty parents. Of course the Bates girls have been raising their siblings! How many times has it been pointed out that it's impossible for anyone to effectively parent that many kids?! The most super awesome mom in the world couldn't do it.

What I personally think is that Gil and Kelly are a tad smarter than Boob and Mullet. They know that if you push too hard 24/7 and are so strict that kids feel they have zero control, they're going to rebel. So yeah, maybe some of their kids have more freedoms, but they still want them all to follow Gothard, slut shame women and restrict their choices, be against civil rights, etc, etc. And lest we forget, THEY HONORED A KKK GRAND WIZARD in their living room.

But I'm not going to call everyone a leg humper for finding some positives. I've found a few positives and I really don't want to have a disclaimer in every post. Everything they do isn't evil, ffs, and their show is definitely a breath of fresh air after how many years of dental visits and staged bullshit from the Duggars. Not wanting to bash them 100% in every post doesn't make one a humper, imo.

[singsingsing]

I've always thought the main difference between Michelle and Kelly (and maybe even the main difference between the Duggars and the Bateses, because there aren't many) is that Kelly's motivation for becoming a quiverfull fundamentalist seems to have been, "Hmm, this seems like it would be a good idea!" whereas Michelle's was something more like, "I'm scared of going to hell. Oh no - I accidentally killed my baby! Jesus, tell me what to do! Someone give me answers!!!"

The psychological stability of a mother must have a strong influence on the atmosphere of a home, so it would come as no surprise to me to find out that the Bates kids were in general more emotionally healthy than the Duggars.

(Footnote, sidenote, endnote, of course the Bateses are fundamentalists, their beliefs are BAD, DANGEROUS, AND WRONG, I don't think Gothard is cool, I don't think Gil is a swell guy, I don't want to have Erin and Chad's babies - Okay? I have removed your obligation to scream at me, call me a leghumper and tell me to 'get a fucking clue' - you're welcome!)

[nelliebelle1197]

Before anyone asks, here's the thread with the Bates and the KKK:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8654&start=280

[NewSeasonOfLife]

Has anyone managed to find any eps beyond the first one online? I can't believe that the show isn't even on iTunes.

[actuallyjessica]

Has anyone managed to find any eps beyond the first one online? I can't believe that the show isn't even on iTunes.

i haven't found anything so far, despite searching daily and requesting for anyone to upload it. it's really not that hard, so if someone who gets uptv could please upload it for those of us who cannot get the channel (i'm overseas!) and would love to see and join in on discussing the show.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

I have Up but only an iPhone camera to record it from the tv which = bad quality. I will try though. At the very least I can do a recap like Buzzard does of the duggar show. Well... I'm no Buzzard but I will try.

[actuallyjessica]

I have Up but only an iPhone camera to record it from the tv which = bad quality. I will try though. At the very least I can do a recap like Buzzard does of the duggar show. Well... I'm no Buzzard but I will try.

iphone quality is better than nothing! so if you could do that, it'd be much appreciated. i've read some recaps but stopped because i'd prefer to see for myself, if you know what i mean. i just find the bates family so interesting haha.

[formergothardite]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the kids had a non ATI approved hobby/talent. I think most here would agree that Erin is very talented at piano. But what if her instrument had been drums (music with a beat)? What if Lawson wanted to release a rap album? What if one of the girls was an Olympic caliber athlete?

Do you think those other talents would have been allowed to be pursued or even discovered?

Absolutely not. When I was at a Training Center girls would get lectured for walking too fast, running was completely off limits.

Drums are a curse from Africa, clearly off limits and are a part of devil worship.

Rap? Also devil worship. You might as well tattoo 666 on your forehead because you are giving Satan a stronghold in your soul.

If you have never read Bill Gothard's teachings on rock music you really should. It will give you a better insight into what it is like in the ATI world. I never quite understood the exact rules for figuring out the evil back-beat, but it was elaborate and didn't include classical music.

Michael Card was considered evil. We had to get rid of his cassettes when we joined because if they were in our house we were giving Satan a stronghold*.

This is what we got rid of because it was evil, modern and might technically not have a back-beat(or it did, I never could figure out), was still dangerous just based on how it was created by sinful CCM artists.

[bBvideo 560,340:384u1j0z]

[/bBvideo]

This is why I find the idea that Gil, who is fervent follower of Bill Gothard, would be okay with his children going to a secular rock concert laughable.

*Apparently my mom lied and just hid them somewhere. :lol: But getting rid of things like that was a requirement for joining ATI. It is really no wonder we never got our pictures on the newsletters, we had Satanic Michael Card hidden in our house. :lol:

[formergothardite]

Isn't the kind of music Lawson does already against Gothard's teaching? I thought he only allowed traditional hymns and Classical music. Lawson does some sort of contemp country Christian stuff that sadly is not very good. I root for Lawson as he seems like a nice kid, and I was impressed by his yodeling, but his songwriting and guitar playing is not too great. Still, I imagine there is a decent audience out there for his music, but it doesn't seem too Gothard Approved.

Here are some thoughts and Questions: Is Gil still on the BoD? Is it possible, that Kelly and Gil themselves, are moving a bit away from the cult? Maybe they are beginning to question it?

Or is it all for show? Are they truly embarked on a subversive attempt to normalize the crazy cult for the mainstream Christian?

I don't know the answer to that, I just know that if I were a kid, and gun to my head, I had to choose the Duggars or the Bates to live with, I would hands down go for the Bates.

I never quite understood the rules about beat, but I think it was something like the beat could be on a first measure and then another measure, but if the beat is not on the first measure and falls on other measures it is Satanic. The rules for beat were elaborate. Gothard basically just made shit up, but I'm pretty sure Lawson's music obeys his rules for when there can be a beat and when their can't.

He is still on the board, but if Gil and Kelly try to slowly distance themselves without a huge public confession and apology, well fuck them. You don't get to help cover up decades of teens being abused and then slowly wash your hands of it like you did no wrong. You realize that even though Gothard technically stepped down, the BoD(which would include Gil) is continuing to give him access to all the personal information of ATI families so that he can contact them and try to get them involved in his new, more secretive program? That is pretty evil and shows Gil is well up Gothard's ass.

I firmly believe they are trying to normalize the crazy cult for mainstream Christians.

[Firiel]

I never quite understood the rules about beat, but I think it was something like the beat could be on a first measure and then another measure, but if the beat is not on the first measure and falls on other measures it is Satanic. The rules for beat were elaborate. Gothard basically just made shit up, but I'm pretty sure Lawson's music obeys his rules for when there can be a beat and when their can't.

He is still on the board, but if Gil and Kelly try to slowly distance themselves without a huge public confession and apology, well fuck them. You don't get to help cover up decades of teens being abused and then slowly wash your hands of it like you did no wrong. You realize that even though Gothard technically stepped down, the BoD(which would include Gil) is continuing to give him access to all the personal information of ATI families so that he can contact them and try to get them involved in his new, more secretive program? That is pretty evil and shows Gil is well up Gothard's ass.

I firmly believe they are trying to normalize the crazy cult for mainstream Christians.

Isn't it an incredibly racist rule? Because it's music that draws from African cultures that tends to have a back beat? I could be wrong, but that's what I've understood.

Anyway, the Bates are more likable, but I do not cut Gil especially any slack. He's on the Board of Directors. He sheltered a sexual abuser. I really don't know what the dynamic between Kelly and Gil is like, but with ATI/IBLP being so patriarchal, she has more potential to be cut slack.

I also think that maybe the Duggars do have more freedom. I think we might underestimate some of the rules like no back beat because they are completely ridiculous to us. But a lot of contemporary Christian music will use a back beat and such music may be played in churches. Now that some of the Duggars are going to non-IBLP churches and are listening to CCM, they are likely hearing a back beat. Also, keep in mind that Jill, at least, married someone who is very likely NOT IBLP approved. He IS JB approved, but not IBLP. All the Bates kids are married to IBLP folks. Whitney seems to have converted. And all the son-in-laws are essentially IBLP royalty.

[stardust]

Still waiting for someone to upload the latest two episodes. It's been almost two weeks since the second one premiered and there's still no link online. :x

[doubleT]

I do find the Bateses children more likable than the Duggars. They don't seem as robotic, although they all follow the same rules and regulations and they seem to be more outgoing and personable. I find Kelly more likable than DQ. She doesn't seem as intent on showing off perfect kids or how perfect she is. That being said, I do not like Gil Bates at all. He seems like a loud, know it all ass. Its all about him. Arrogant, conceited and a braggart. I feel Boob and Gil are even in that area. Gil seems a tad bit more hands on with his kids of all ages and seems more comfortable around them, but not by much.

The Duggars seem like they are always "on", as in performing on stage. The Bateses seem more laid back.

[nelliebelle1197]

Still waiting for someone to upload the latest two episodes. It's been almost two weeks since the second one premiered and there's still no link online. :x

Likely because that is a copyright violation and Up network is monitoring for those illegal uploads.

[Rachel333]

Likely because that is a copyright violation and Up network is monitoring for those illegal uploads.

That's true of every other tv series that gets uploaded online, though. I think there just isn't a lot of interest in the Bates yet for people to be uploading those episodes. It's only recently that I've noticed 19K&C regularly appearing those sites after it airs, and it's been going for years.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Likely because that is a copyright violation and Up network is monitoring for those illegal uploads.

Up was the one that posted the pilot. I wish they posted the others.

[LittleOleMe]

Up was the one that posted the pilot. I wish they posted the others.

They posted the premiere to get people interested enough to actually start watching the show on TV. I didn't even realize I could find it on demand until I did a title search. It's quite buried in there - at least for me. If someone knows how I can upload it - without using my iPhone bc I don't have the space on there for that anyway - then please explain it to me and I can certainly try.

Also, that Michael Card sone is beautiful. How could anyone think that's evil and Satanic?? I'm not even a christian and I still enjoyed it because it's beautifully done.

[halcionne]

There are uploaded streaming episodes online. Google "bringing up bates streaming" without quotes. Antivirus software and adblock strongly recommended.

[PracticeMakesProgress]

I never quite understood the rules about beat, but I think it was something like the beat could be on a first measure and then another measure, but if the beat is not on the first measure and falls on other measures it is Satanic. The rules for beat were elaborate. Gothard basically just made shit up, but I'm pretty sure Lawson's music obeys his rules for when there can be a beat and when their can't.

He is still on the board, but if Gil and Kelly try to slowly distance themselves without a huge public confession and apology, well fuck them. You don't get to help cover up decades of teens being abused and then slowly wash your hands of it like you did no wrong. You realize that even though Gothard technically stepped down, the BoD(which would include Gil) is continuing to give him access to all the personal information of ATI families so that he can contact them and try to get them involved in his new, more secretive program? That is pretty evil and shows Gil is well up Gothard's ass.

I firmly believe they are trying to normalize the crazy cult for mainstream Christians.

this may have been answered in another forum, but as a noob, i can't understand why people/families take such specific, insanely legalistic advice regarding marriage and family from a man who NEVER married and NEVER had kids (well, that he publicly acknowledged). formergothardite? any thoughts?

[calimojo]

what is the new more secretive program?

BTW, I agree with you, if Gil and Kelly are trying to distance themselves, then I really do think they should be honest about that and explain why they had a change of heart. .

It is hard to say what they intend to do, or if they will ever address their religion much on the show.

[actuallyjessica]

There are uploaded streaming episodes online. Google "bringing up bates streaming" without quotes. Antivirus software and adblock strongly recommended.

there's nothing. i've searched. so if you've found something i haven't please PM me.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

there's nothing. i've searched. so if you've found something i haven't please PM me.

Yeah I've searched and found nothing.

[nelliebelle1197]

[offtopic][/offtopic]

what is the new more secretive program?

BTW, I agree with you, if Gil and Kelly are trying to distance themselves, then I really do think they should be honest about that and explain why they had a change of heart. .

It is hard to say what they intend to do, or if they will ever address their religion much on the show.

They are not trying to distance themselves from Gothard. There is nothing to indicate that. I am really unsure why anyone thinks they are. The Duggars are less entrenched in this than the Bates.