What I find most depressing about fundementalism

[guitar_villain]

When I read up on these families, I see folks shut into their own world, knowing all the answers because they are available from (their very narrow interpretation) of a religious text.

Meanwhile, ten minutes ago humanity just harpooned a fucking comet. Why? Because we don't know the answers. But we want to.

[BrownieMomma]

That is just so cool.

I don't get the fundie aversion to education. i've had a lot, and it does make me think and question but in the end I am still a Christian.

It is depressing that science is considered ebil.

[N The Prayer Closet]

I'm no longer a Christian but I am educated and have so much respect for those that find Joy and purpose in their own religious beliefs. It's the narcissistic oppression of others who don't share your beliefs exactly as you do that chaps my ass.

And yay for landing on a freaking comet!!!

[docmom]

If your beliefs don't square with the facts, it's time to reexamine them. Can you believe in a worldwide flood, creation of everything in 7 days, a 6,000 year old earth, a flat earth held up by pillars? No you can't. Can you believe in a creator/god/ Jesus as son of God while accepting scientific facts? Sure, lots of people do. The problem with fundies is they think you HAVE to believe in absolutely everything the bible says or believe in nothing. And that's very hard to do.

[sparkles]

The lack of intellectual curiosity–-hell, the lack of ANY kind of curiosity–-is what astounds me. To live your life in a bubble, never questioning, never seeking, never learning, blindly accepting every single thing you're told as fact and truth…well, that's no life at all as far as I'm concerned. Why would any god have created such a full, rich, mysterious universe only to discourage his children from discovering its wonders? That's certainly no being I'd choose to worship.

[browncoatslytherin]

for most of my childhood, i didn't even have tv. for the '96 olympics, when they came to atlanta, my parents had to watch it so they got an antenna. we only got a couple of major channels and pbs, but i was finally able to watch something. i used to love bill nye, but my parents got really uncomfortable with me watching it whenever he would mention the earth's age or dinosaurs or anything that didn't fit into their view of creationism. i watched it less and less, i think because my parents must have gotten hip to when it was on and got me involved playing with something so i'd miss it. :P i never knew when it was on and being adhd i'm pretty distractable, so that sounds plausible to me.

[ADoyle90815]

The lack of intellectual curiosity–-hell, the lack of ANY kind of curiosity–-is what astounds me. To live your life in a bubble, never questioning, never seeking, never learning, blindly accepting every single thing you're told as fact and truth…well, that's no life at all as far as I'm concerned. Why would any god have created such a full, rich, mysterious universe only to discourage his children from discovering its wonders? That's certainly no being I'd choose to worship.

I feel the same way. If a god has given humans brains, I would think that actually using it is what was intended. I certainly don't want to worship some being that came up with such a wonderful planet and universe that won't allow people to discover how wonderful everything is. The thing I love about science is that when evidence proves something was wrong, scientists admit they were wrong, and accept what the new evidence shows.

[Coco]

The lack of intellectual curiosity–-hell, the lack of ANY kind of curiosity–-is what astounds me. To live your life in a bubble, never questioning, never seeking, never learning, blindly accepting every single thing you're told as fact and truth…well, that's no life at all as far as I'm concerned. Why would any god have created such a full, rich, mysterious universe only to discourage his children from discovering its wonders? That's certainly no being I'd choose to worship.

exactly. This was a brick wall for my sisters and me, coming into fundie-land in our teens. Even my mom struggled with it, she likes to discuss current events, and the only people who knew anything about them in fundie-land were the men. And it's looked down on for a woman to talk to a man who isn't her husband, especially as an equal. :angry-banghead:

Even when my family left that culture, one of the young ex-fundie men started courting my sister's sister-in-law, so my family would see him a lot. And in a group setting he would ignore even a direct question asked him by a woman. Such a jerk. I feel sorry for the girl he's courting, they're engaged now and i want to scream at her, RUN! But she's very beautiful and he has a lot of money at the moment. I just see a lot of heartache for her in the future, when it's more difficult for her to look perfect for him. I don't think she'll be happy with a husband who expects women to be servile doormats with zero intellectual curiosity.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

The thing I find most depressing is the level of isolation that most fundie families impose. Not having people around (homeschool, home church, never leave home except when absolutely necessary) leads to an environment where all types of abuse can run rampant.

[Jana814]

What I find that most depressing about Fundementalism is the fact that so many of them don't know what is going on in the world.

[Jana814]

The thing I find most depressing is the level of isolation that most fundie families impose. Not having people around (homeschool, home church, never leave home except when absolutely necessary) leads to an environment where all types of abuse can run rampant.

Agree!

[JenniferJuniper]

All this and - No dancing.

I just found it heartbreaking when little Jackson started to bust a move in that toy store years ago only to be reprimanded by a Sister Mom (who promptly told the camera crew he was not dancing, just accidently doing a little jumping for joy).

If you live in a culture that considers dancing children to be defrauding your culture sucks by default.

[latraviata]

When I read up on these families, I see folks shut into their own world, knowing all the answers because they are available from (their very narrow interpretation) of a religious text.

Meanwhile, ten minutes ago humanity just harpooned a fucking comet. Why? Because we don't know the answers. But we want to.

What I find depressing is the joylessness of their existence. It is all based on fear. Their self-imposed loosely interpreted rules and regulations, according to a 2000 year book, . Their rules are so rigid and oppressive, that no living soul is able to comply to it.

The more fearful they are, the more convulsively and blunted they become.

There is absolutely no fun in them, they are not able to relativise themselves, because they completely gave up their autonomy. No sense of humor whatsoever.

Sometimes I shake my old grey head and think, honestly you only get one life, make the most of it. Other than having children en gros, cleaning, working going to church and praying and being afraid of "the afterlife' there isn't much more than that for them, which is very sad.

[salex]

Most depressing things about fundementalism

1) Active and silent anti woman attitudes and actions

2) Active and silent anti intellectualism

3) The political power they have managed to attain. I am not sure, always if they are fundie first or politicians first, who use the facade of fundie to gain/retain power (I say this as someone living in Brownbackistan who has fundie politician relative)

4) The constant blather -- browbeating, condemning explaining and making life much more complex than it needs to be by having long explications of why you did whatever you did and, more importantly, why anyone who does differently is not right with God.

5) Selling Christ and God for a profit.

[doggie]

I think fear is the biggest thing fear of the world fear of other beliefs fear of temptations fear of the government it's all about fear

[DGayle]

The all-around ignorance is what I find most depressing. They're so stuck on set ways because they ignorantly think that they must. If only they'd open their minds, a lot of them would be happier, and they'd realize it doesn't take a wife keeping her mouth shut and being a servant for everyone to be happy.

Also depressing is how the emotional and mental and even physical abuse is all protected under freedom of religion. I don't give two shits about religion when it's used as a shield against prosecution for abuse. There needs to be a line.

[colors_outside15]

I agree with the vast majority of what has already been posted on this thread. I would probably be more cohesive, but alas, I am lonely, tired, sad, and slightly tipsy (whoops ...)

What I find most depressing is buddy systems. I think buddy systems are a cruel tool of abuse. See, not only do siblings end up raising children, who are technically not their children, but also disciplinary action can be imparted upon the buddies for a sibling's mistake. The emotional and psychological torture that brings to all humans involved cannot be understated. It may not leave bruises, but honestly, I would rather have the bruises than knife wounds in my heart. Buddy systems are a systematic chain of abuse that can be used to cause severe emotional and psychological abuse that makes leaving almost impossible.

If you do leave, the guilt is immense and it never dissipates. Being cut out of the lives of my entire family, granted I do not get along with all of them, but I have "sibling children". It is beyond cruel to have had them removed from my life.

I left for a lot of reasons all of which are incredibly valid, but I don't know if I could ever do it again and I don't know if I like that I did it. I left my loved ones in harms way ,,, because of me. It's been so long now that I don't even know who or what I'm missing anymore. I think that's worse than knowing what is gone because it leaves me yearning to know, with all my heart, how my little ones are doing.

This practice is beyond cruel. It is beyond cruel. And every time Mullet brings up the wonderful, sweet buddy teams and that season of life (or whatever she calls it), I almost vomit in my mouth. It's not a buddy system Mullet - it's a totally ripped and dysfunctional, broken adoption system.

(I wish this forum had a chat option. No matter how little I post, people reach out to me, and that makes me realize that I might have found a healthy place where I belong. Wow; that would be wonderful!)

[Marianne]

All of this and no good food. Seriously, I have not seen one fundie who seems to eat good, home made food. Food is the best things in the world for me (yes, better than sex :D ). in France we say "You should not live to eat, but eat for living". Well, I live to eat. Living in fundie land, I'm not sure if I would have known all the amazings foods from all over the world that I have tasted.

And of course :

*Spanking and violence

*No school

*No reading

*no freedom

*no privacy

etc...

[ILoveJellybeans]

The thing that I find saddest is the children. When a baby is born, it is an occasion full of hope-this tiny little baby could grow up to be anything they want to be. For a fundie, they are stuffed into a box and trained to only be good for one purpose, given a poor education and sheltered from the world. They have talents that they could never realise and put to good use, and so many things they cannot try but might love.

Maybe if she had been raised in a different family, that little fundie girl could have realised she was brilliant at maths and science, and went on to become a top scientist who made a very important discovery that could change our lives. Instead, she will receive poor homeschooling by parents who believe these subjects are for boys and her head will be filled with the message that she cant do math or science because girls are not good at that. Then she will get married and have a bunch of kids and stay at home and fill them with the same message.

What if this little fundie boy actually has a real talent for dancing, but he will never know this as all of his life as it is something he has never been allowed to do, and he has been told all of his life that it is a sin. If he was raised in a different family, he might have gone on to take dance classes and become a well known performer.

Fundies often talk about how abortion could have killed off someone very important before they were even born, and how the baby someone is aborting could have been the one to cure cancer, bring peace to the world, end hunger and poverty, and do such amazing acts of good.......but what if one of the fundie kids were to, but couldn't because of how restricted they were and how poor their education was. What if the child destined to cure cancer, was a little girl born to a fundie family? She would never have been allowed to go to college, or become a doctor, she would have been expected to marry young and start working on popping out babies.

So many personality traits that fundie kids are born with, are are killed by child training as their parents think they are useless and a problem that needs to be removed. They aren't useless, they just don't fit into the fundie boxes of boy and girl. In fact, these traits that fundies don't like can actually be a great thing that can be very helpful in life.....but fundies don't want that, so they destroy them. The kind, nurturing little boy isn't bad for not being strong and manly, he has advantages that other people might not, maybe his kindness and love might encourage him to do amazing acts of charity and make the world a better place. That wilful, spirited fundie girl might be considered bad for not being a submissive helpmeet, but her spirit and willingness to lead might lead her to become a successful businesswoman who runs a huge company and makes millions.

So many dreams crushed. Josh wanted to be a lawyer, they gave him a used car lot to run, and now he works for a hate group. Instead of the midwife course that Jill did, she might have gone on to be a real midwife, or even a doctor or nurse. What if Erin Bates had been allowed to accept her scholarship to a real accredited college? She has a talent for piano playing, and could have taken it even further. Sarah Maxwell might have become a real author and write best selling childrens books if she was allowed to read more than the Bible and instruction books.

So many dreams that are going to be crushed too. What if little newborn Davia Waller (lol the name!) could be president one day? Or what if Josie Duggar wanted to become a famous singer? Drew Maxwell might be amazing at basketball and want to play it professionally.

[latraviata]

The thing that I find saddest is the children. When a baby is born, it is an occasion full of hope-this tiny little baby could grow up to be anything they want to be. For a fundie, they are stuffed into a box and trained to only be good for one purpose, given a poor education and sheltered from the world. They have talents that they could never realise and put to good use, and so many things they cannot try but might love.

Maybe if she had been raised in a different family, that little fundie girl could have realised she was brilliant at maths and science, and went on to become a top scientist who made a very important discovery that could change our lives. Instead, she will receive poor homeschooling by parents who believe these subjects are for boys and her head will be filled with the message that she cant do math or science because girls are not good at that. Then she will get married and have a bunch of kids and stay at home and fill them with the same message.

What if this little fundie boy actually has a real talent for dancing, but he will never know this as all of his life as it is something he has never been allowed to do, and he has been told all of his life that it is a sin. If he was raised in a different family, he might have gone on to take dance classes and become a well known performer.

Fundies often talk about how abortion could have killed off someone very important before they were even born, and how the baby someone is aborting could have been the one to cure cancer, bring peace to the world, end hunger and poverty, and do such amazing acts of good.......but what if one of the fundie kids were to, but couldn't because of how restricted they were and how poor their education was. What if the child destined to cure cancer, was a little girl born to a fundie family? She would never have been allowed to go to college, or become a doctor, she would have been expected to marry young and start working on popping out babies.

So many personality traits that fundie kids are born with, are are killed by child training as their parents think they are useless and a problem that needs to be removed. They aren't useless, they just don't fit into the fundie boxes of boy and girl. In fact, these traits that fundies don't like can actually be a great thing that can be very helpful in life.....but fundies don't want that, so they destroy them. The kind, nurturing little boy isn't bad for not being strong and manly, he has advantages that other people might not, maybe his kindness and love might encourage him to do amazing acts of charity and make the world a better place. That wilful, spirited fundie girl might be considered bad for not being a submissive helpmeet, but her spirit and willingness to lead might lead her to become a successful businesswoman who runs a huge company and makes millions.

So many dreams crushed. Josh wanted to be a lawyer, they gave him a used car lot to run, and now he works for a hate group. Instead of the midwife course that Jill did, she might have gone on to be a real midwife, or even a doctor or nurse. What if Erin Bates had been allowed to accept her scholarship to a real accredited college? She has a talent for piano playing, and could have taken it even further. Sarah Maxwell might have become a real author and write best selling childrens books if she was allowed to read more than the Bible and instruction books.

So many dreams that are going to be crushed too. What if little newborn Davia Waller (lol the name!) could be president one day? Or what if Josie Duggar wanted to become a famous singer? Drew Maxwell might be amazing at basketball and want to play it professionally.

Somewhere in the bible it says that wasting one's talents is a sin.

[paintergurl]

Fear and repression in all things. Relentlessly forcing everyone to believe and behave exactly the same, in the same constricted roles.

I hate the total lack of creativity and self-expression. Every time I see all 19 kids break out the balloons, white poster board and markers, construction paper and handmade cards, I just cringe. Do any of the 19 have a creative outlet to explore on their own? Jinger and her photography ? Maybe. But I bet she only takes photos of her family members, engagement photos and baby pictures. Jana and sewing? What else can she make besides modesty guards and bad ties? Some of the boys and filmmaking ? Again, we see reenactments of family events and bible tales. Just not an original thought or expression or interest from a single one.

Also, no music. Last night while driving I was listening to Danzig- "Mother", singing along at top volume. I actually wondered what a Duggar would do if they heard that song? Me (born metalhead) ? It does send a dark thrill down my spine and I think hearing music like that would surely make me curious about the "dark" side.

[moodygirl86]

Somewhere in the bible it says that wasting one's talents is a sin.

That's right, and it's a direct contradiction of the parts of Scripture that fundies use to justify boxing the next generation into narrow gender roles. In fact, just about any given quote from the Bible will have another one in the same book that contradicts it. But it's interesting how selective fundies are in what they follow and ignore.

[nolongerIFBx]

That's right, and it's a direct contradiction of the parts of Scripture that fundies use to justify boxing the next generation into narrow gender roles. In fact, just about any given quote from the Bible will have another one in the same book that contradicts it. But it's interesting how selective fundies are in what they follow and ignore.

:? Okay, it does discuss talents, but the talent is a form of money not talent as we think about it today. Matthew 25:28 "take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents." Other versions refer to it as a bag of money.

Or am I forgetting something?

(I don't argue that it is a waste, just not recognizing what Scripture you might be referring to).

[latraviata]

:? Okay, it does discuss talents, but the talent is a form of money not talent as we think about it today. Matthew 25:28 "take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents." Other versions refer to it as a bag of money.

Or am I forgetting something?

(I don't argue that it is a waste, just not recognizing what Scripture you might be referring to).

Dutch society is based on the talent thing, christian or not, this used to be the adagium in Dutch schools and families. Have they been wrong all these centuries and was it the currency instead of the human potential?

[chissprincess]

The only thing I find truly depressing is that they want to force it on other people, whether "other people" means their own children or the rest of us (by voting and such). I don't care what consenting adults choose to believe or what they choose to do with their lives. I DO care when they try to force others to live as they do, and I DO care that their children aren't given the tools to make an informed decision for themselves.