Lori on mothers/teachers

[feministxtian]

I homeschooled my kids for a couple of years. I was great with the math and science (grade school level)...the rest...not so much. Fortunately, I had kids who loved to read...they went back to PS in middle school...but even now, I get phone calls and skypes for help with college level math. According to my middle child, the instructor does not explain things as well as I do, so he sits in class (college) just to show up and then I tutor him later. So far so good, he's holding a high B.

[usmcmom]

Is anybody else having trouble with the quote feature? I'd just like to apologize for my last few comments. I, for some reason, get a different result every time I try to quote lately. I just feel bad for not giving credit properly.

Now back to our regularly scheduled snarking....

[louisa05]

I homeschooled my kids for a couple of years. I was great with the math and science (grade school level)...the rest...not so much. Fortunately, I had kids who loved to read...they went back to PS in middle school...but even now, I get phone calls and skypes for help with college level math. According to my middle child, the instructor does not explain things as well as I do, so he sits in class (college) just to show up and then I tutor him later. So far so good, he's holding a high B.

Most college instructors do not have pedagogical training.

[Loveday]

(snip...)

Americans don't believe that teaching is a skill, though. Thus our general disregard of the talents of teachers.

This. Teachers are professionals, and yet they often get less respect than Rodney Dangerfield. :? (I speak as the wife of a 23-year veteran of the classroom)

[Jana814]

I know of a teacher (taught 7th grade reading/writing) who just retired. She taught at the school that I went to and also lives in a town similar to the one I live in. (meaning SAME economic background of the residents in both towns) When she posted on Facebook that she was retiring she got soo many messages from former students, colages and some parents saying how wonderful she was, how even though she had kids of her own they were impressed how she was able to balance being both a teacher and a parent.

[salex]

A couple of things this thread brought to mind.

Part of the lack of respect toward teaching is that it is a "woman heavy" career area. It seems to me that when women become a majority in a field, it both drives men out, tends to lower pay and diminishes respect. Being a secretary, nurse and teacher were all once careers limited to men. As women took over, men become anomalies (although men are still in HS education and administration) to the point "Bob is a Male Secretary" or "Phil is a Male Nurse" are actual sentences. Pay does not always keep up.

I also saw, in the 90s, that my best students at the university were not studying education... (see also pay not keeping up) which will cause a spiral if my anecdotal observation is accurate.

And, re the idea that college professor are not taught to teach...mostly true in my experience, but some are good at it anyway. I was pretty good according to my reviews, but I burned out pretty quickly. Even so, I used to say when a relative asked me what I taught. " I don't teach-- I profess, because I'm not a teacher I"m a professor!" I at least thought it was funny... :D

[Loveday]

A couple of things this thread brought to mind.

Part of the lack of respect toward teaching is that it is a "woman heavy" career area. It seems to me that when women become a majority in a field, it both drives men out, tends to lower pay and diminishes respect. Being a secretary, nurse and teacher were all once careers limited to men. As women took over, men become anomalies (although men are still in HS education and administration) to the point "Bob is a Male Secretary" or "Phil is a Male Nurse" are actual sentences. Pay does not always keep up.

I also saw, in the 90s, that my best students at the university were not studying education... (see also pay not keeping up) which will cause a spiral if my anecdotal observation is accurate.

And, re the idea that college professor are not taught to teach...mostly true in my experience, but some are good at it anyway. I was pretty good according to my reviews, but I burned out pretty quickly. Even so, I used to say when a relative asked me what I taught. " I don't teach-- I profess, because I'm not a teacher I"m a professor!" I at least thought it was funny... :D

There are still a fair few men in middle school teaching (my husband teaches 7th grade science), but their numbers are definitely on the downswing. It's probably the toughest age group to work with, I don't know how anyone, male or female, can retain their sanity teaching 6th-8th graders. :pull-hair: :lol:

[louisa05]

A couple of things this thread brought to mind.

Part of the lack of respect toward teaching is that it is a "woman heavy" career area. It seems to me that when women become a majority in a field, it both drives men out, tends to lower pay and diminishes respect. Being a secretary, nurse and teacher were all once careers limited to men. As women took over, men become anomalies (although men are still in HS education and administration) to the point "Bob is a Male Secretary" or "Phil is a Male Nurse" are actual sentences. Pay does not always keep up.

I also saw, in the 90s, that my best students at the university were not studying education... (see also pay not keeping up) which will cause a spiral if my anecdotal observation is accurate.

And, re the idea that college professor are not taught to teach...mostly true in my experience, but some are good at it anyway. I was pretty good according to my reviews, but I burned out pretty quickly. Even so, I used to say when a relative asked me what I taught. " I don't teach-- I profess, because I'm not a teacher I"m a professor!" I at least thought it was funny... :D

High schools tend to be pretty evenly divided in terms of teachers' gender. But a lot of males are in the profession out of a desire to coach.

More and more administrators are female now. Stats from 2009:

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-s ... princ.html

I did not intend to imply that all college professors are bad at teaching. I had some professors who were fantastic teachers. It is a fact, however, that the majority have no formal training.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

My former state governor called Kindergarten teachers glorified babysitters (current gov is no better). I respect ALL teachers but I think K through 2nd or so have it the hardest. I'd lose my shit in about 2 days if I had 20-30 5 year-olds in my care and had to teach them to read, introduce them to math, etc, etc all while getting them used to full-day school and the routine of it all. Add in today's helicopter parents and there's no way we could ever pay these teachers enough! I grew up with an elementary teacher mom and I still don't know how they do what they do!

[salex]

High schools tend to be pretty evenly divided in terms of teachers' gender. But a lot of males are in the profession out of a desire to coach.

More and more administrators are female now. Stats from 2009:

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-s ... princ.html

I did not intend to imply that all college professors are bad at teaching. I had some professors who were fantastic teachers. It is a fact, however, that the majority have no formal training.

I was agreeing with you. We got one day of coaching before being sent to teach 101 and 102 Comp and our Comp support class was all theory... and pretty stupid theory as well.

[salex]

There are still a fair few men in middle school teaching (my husband teaches 7th grade science), but their numbers are definitely on the downswing. It's probably the toughest age group to work with, I don't know how anyone, male or female, can retain their sanity teaching 6th-8th graders. :pull-hair: :lol:

I can't imagine it. I honestly would never have liked tweens or younger at all to teach. And HS only a bit better, because of the parents! I did think I had sort of a "calling" for College-- both traditional and non traditional students and I only ever was confronted by one parent who was not happy with their kid's grades. But I did burn out and there was a perfect storm of incidents in my life that led to me leaving the campus to go into business.

[lilwriter85]

I liked most of my college professors. The few that disliked were intelligent, but I don't think they had the right knack for teaching and one of them didn't seem too happy being in college classroom. I had a very intelligent high school biology teacher, but the problem with him was that he didn't do well when it came to helping students having problems with course material. There were students who liked him and then there were others who loathed him. The students who really liked that biology teacher were students that did well in the subject.I think that is one of the problems with some teachers at all levels. Some just don't know how to cope or deal with students who aren't great at certain subjects.

[louisa05]

My former state governor called Kindergarten teachers glorified babysitters (current gov is no better). I respect ALL teachers but I think K through 2nd or so have it the hardest. I'd lose my shit in about 2 days if I had 20-30 5 year-olds in my care and had to teach them to read, introduce them to math, etc, etc all while getting them used to full-day school and the routine of it all. Add in today's helicopter parents and there's no way we could ever pay these teachers enough! I grew up with an elementary teacher mom and I still don't know how they do what they do!

I get more sub calls than I like in primary grades. It is EXHAUSTING. Not only do you have to teach them, you have to tie their shoes, zip their coats, dry their tears, put on band-aids, put their hair bands back in, open their milk cartons, and the list goes on...I fall asleep on the couch around 7:30 on days I sub in primary grades.

[MissA]

Another one said that her mother never taught her the fine arts of keeping a home.

You know, my mother never taught me the fine arts of mathematics, because she herself never went beyond Algebra, being a rather literary type. When I wanted to learn the fine art of quilting I had to get a book because even though she knew how to sew outfits she didn't know anything about how to assemble a quilt.

FEEEL MYYYY SUFFERINGS. That bitch. When I call her tomorrow I will tell her so.

If these women actually exist (which I take liberty to doubt) I'd be so inclined to say "SO WHAT." If your mother loved you and didn't abuse or neglect you then after a certain point you have to get past the teenaged stage of blaming her for the things that you dislike about yourself. She was a human being and did her best with the resources available to her.

[Curious]

these people and the "fine arts of housekeeping." :roll: Did your mother never clean the house? Did you not have eyes? How hard is it to figure out the bottle of pledge and a dust rag? I don't think my mom specifically *taught* me how to do household chores (expect maybe using the washing machine) and we did have a...housekeeper, I guess. We never called her that. She was called by her first name and referred to as "the lady that helps mom" (as my mom was disabled by MS).

I loved her and would follow her around and talk to her and no doubt get in her way all day ;) I learned stuff just watching her, though. She would answer questions if I asked them. Crazy!

If you can read, you can figure out the "fine arts of housekeeping." These people need to get over themselves.

[Firiel]

My mom did all the cooking and cleaning in my family growing up, but I was always too busy playing outside to learn what she was doing.

When I grew up, I didn't know how to cook. So I looked up a recipe on the Internet and followed the directions. Voila! I was cooking!

It's just really not that hard...

[louisa05]

My mom did all the cooking and cleaning in my family growing up, but I was always too busy playing outside to learn what she was doing.

When I grew up, I didn't know how to cook. So I looked up a recipe on the Internet and followed the directions. Voila! I was cooking!

It's just really not that hard...

You learned something, though. If you can follow a recipe, then you know the difference between boiling and simmering and what searing means and how to dice something as opposed to slicing it. I know too many people who can't boil water for pasta to always believe that cooking is that simple. I have observed my sister-in-law attempt to make her chicken soup thicker by adding milk and seen her helplessly watch a pan of gravy turn into a congealed mess because she has no idea how to cook (but of course thinks she is better at it than everyone else on the planet). It isn't rocket science, but it also is not the simplest thing in the universe.

I think you can learn some basic skills by osmosis and fill in the rest. It doesn't have to be a project that takes years. But if you never pick anything up at all (like my husband and sister-in-law), it is a different matter.

[usmcmom]

*Thinking....thinking...*

The only thing I remember my mom actually teaching me...actually standing beside me and telling me what to do next...was how to bathe my first newborn. By that time, I was in my twenties and living in my own home. Is Baby Bathing considered a fine art?

As for cooking, she never liked to have us in the kitchen when she cooked. When I became I mother, I understood that. I admit I kind of got a little jittery with little ones "helping" in the kitchen. But I think I hid my impatience pretty well and let them help me when they wanted. When I became I wife, I just kind of drew on what I'd seen her do for each meal. Plus, I called her several nights a week and let her walk me through a recipe. I lived out of state so it was a wonderful time to catch up as well. Even today those phone calls are a happy memory for both of us. Every now and then she'll say "Remember when you had to call me most nights to get help with supper."

As for cleaning, I learned by doing. We had daily chores. On Saturdays we had more chores. Even though my mom had a helper come in on Saturdays, she gave us household chores. I had to put away the silverware and clean the fridge. Also, because I was the littlest of four, I got the "low" jobs. I had to scour toilets and dust two rooms of furniture. My oldest brother got the "tall" jobs and yard work.

Lori would have loved my mom because she kept an immaculate house and cooked yummy hot breakfasts every day. But then she would have hated her because she was divorced and worked outside the home.

[Firiel]

You learned something, though. If you can follow a recipe, then you know the difference between boiling and simmering and what searing means and how to dice something as opposed to slicing it. I know too many people who can't boil water for pasta to always believe that cooking is that simple. I have observed my sister-in-law attempt to make her chicken soup thicker by adding milk and seen her helplessly watch a pan of gravy turn into a congealed mess because she has no idea how to cook (but of course thinks she is better at it than everyone else on the planet). It isn't rocket science, but it also is not the simplest thing in the universe.

I think you can learn some basic skills by osmosis and fill in the rest. It doesn't have to be a project that takes years. But if you never pick anything up at all (like my husband and sister-in-law), it is a different matter.

Yeah, I guess I just don't consider picking up the terminology "learning how to cook." I mean, I know what a spark plug, radiator, and fuel pump are (in concept). But I certainly don't know how to work on cars, you know?

I mean, to REALLY be a cook there is a lot you have to learn, and it certainly isn't simple. But to be a passable cook who can make some dinners and desserts... that's something you really can teach yourself in a couple months with a little effort.

[feministxtian]

I sure as hell didn't learn to cook, clean, decorate or any of that from "the mother"...I learned how to work on cars from my then boyfriend. I can do both...it didn't take me years to learn either one...

Lori...it doesn't take long to learn how to do any of these things. I work, I take care of my house, cook, do laundry, cross-stitch, crochet, play guitar, go grocery shopping, play with my critters and still find time to have sex...I have the same 24 hours you do...maybe if you stopped watching so much damn TV...