All Things Doug Phillips & VF, Including Lourdes's Lawsuit

[Mary C Doates]

Just had to comment that one of the banner ads I'm getting on FJ is for "Alone Yet Not Alone". Yes, this is definitely a group of people who are clamouring to see this movie...

PS Doug Phillips is still a tool.

Edited for riffle.

[Marian the Librarian]

I can't find anything new about the pending lawsuit. But Beall Phillips has been updating her (public) Facebook page with lots of Phillips kid pictures, and giving Dougie the photographer's credit.

And, Nolan Manteufel has done a pretty great portrait-copy-of-a-photo of Lourdes, visible on his FB page. Talented guy, that Nolan. :)

[Laurabelle]

And, Nolan Manteufel has done a pretty great portrait-copy-of-a-photo of Lourdes, visible on his FB page. Talented guy, that Nolan. :)

I had to go take a peek--wow! He is quite talented. I also couldn't help but notice the single comment right now on the picture...hm.

[anjulibai]

Doesn't more recent evidence contend that the Hemmings were Jefferson's nephew's children?

You have made really good arguments about the north and slavery. Slavery was not economically viable for the cash crops in the north nor for the burgeoning manufacturing sector. Slaves were too expensive for the small farms that dominated the north and it was cheaper to employ poor whites at low wages in the factories.

Just a note on France and Great Britain- both refused to enter the war on the side of the Confederacy - despite Davis' repeated manipulations and advances - because of public opinion on SLAVERY - moreso in Britan than France -even though a Confederate victory would have been advantageous politically and economically advantageous, especially for France, which wanted both cotton and Mexico. History does not lie. Revisions of history do.

No. There were a few groups that put that forward, but they were mostly influenced by the descendents of Jefferson's white daughters, who don't want to accept Jefferson had children with Sally Hemings.

There is a preponderance of historical evidence to show that Jefferson had a long term relationship with Hemings, and that there's no possibility that anyone else was the father of her children. "The Hemingses of Monticello" by Annette Gordon-Reed, which received a Pulitzer for history, goes into all the evidence from documents. It's a fascinating read, and an interesting look into the varied lives of slaves at the time period along with Jefferson's complicated views of slavery.

BTW, not only was Heming's father white, but her mother, though a slave, was half-white. Hemming's children were all only 1/8th black, which is the reason that some were able to pass for white later in their lives. The sons, were also said to look just like Jefferson.

[nausicaa]

No. There were a few groups that put that forward, but they were mostly influenced by the descendents of Jefferson's white daughters, who don't want to accept Jefferson had children with Sally Hemings.

There is a preponderance of historical evidence to show that Jefferson had a long term relationship with Hemings, and that there's no possibility that anyone else was the father of her children. "The Hemingses of Monticello" by Annette Gordon-Reed, which received a Pulitzer for history, goes into all the evidence from documents. It's a fascinating read, and an interesting look into the varied lives of slaves at the time period along with Jefferson's complicated views of slavery.

BTW, not only was Heming's father white, but her mother, though a slave, was half-white. Hemming's children were all only 1/8th black, which is the reason that some were able to pass for white later in their lives. The sons, were also said to look just like Jefferson.

I read once that when Jefferson brought Sally Hemings with him to France, people mistook her for a Sicilian and would often begin speaking Italian to her.

[DomWackTroll]

Beall on Facebook: “Doug remembers being a young boy on Cape Cod and asking his grandmother about the numbered tattoos on the arms of some elderly extended family or friends. They had survived the concentration camps. Doug's father lived right across the street from an orphanage for children whose parents were executed in Buchenwald and Auschwitz.â€

See? Those were real crimes, and if poor Doug had been there, they would have killed him, too!

facebook.com/BeallPhillips/posts/855665604460738

[gustava]

No. There were a few groups that put that forward, but they were mostly influenced by the descendents of Jefferson's white daughters, who don't want to accept Jefferson had children with Sally Hemings.

There is a preponderance of historical evidence to show that Jefferson had a long term relationship with Hemings, and that there's no possibility that anyone else was the father of her children. "The Hemingses of Monticello" by Annette Gordon-Reed, which received a Pulitzer for history, goes into all the evidence from documents. It's a fascinating read, and an interesting look into the varied lives of slaves at the time period along with Jefferson's complicated views of slavery.

BTW, not only was Heming's father white, but her mother, though a slave, was half-white. Hemming's children were all only 1/8th black, which is the reason that some were able to pass for white later in their lives. The sons, were also said to look just like Jefferson.

I think the evidence shows that Sally Hemings was half-sister to Jefferson's dead wife, Martha. She and Martha had the same white father and the same white grandfather.

[gustava]

I read once that when Jefferson brought Sally Hemings with him to France, people mistook her for a Sicilian and would often begin speaking Italian to her.

Yes, Jefferson took a teenage Sally Hemings to France, as a companion to his daughter. Hemings' would have been the aunt of Jefferson's daughter. Also, in France, she would have been free and could have walked away had she known/chosen.

[gustava]

Beall on Facebook: “Doug remembers being a young boy on Cape Cod and asking his grandmother about the numbered tattoos on the arms of some elderly extended family or friends. They had survived the concentration camps. Doug's father lived right across the street from an orphanage for children whose parents were executed in Buchenwald and Auschwitz.â€

See? Those were real crimes, and if poor Doug had been there, they would have killed him, too!

facebook.com/BeallPhillips/posts/855665604460738

I'm guessing that DPIAT/R would be of the school that says the Jews killed Christ.

[uber frau]

I'm guessing that DPIAT/R would be of the school that says the Jews killed Christ.

]

Yes, but at the same time he tells ppl he's proud of his Jewish heritage. They have such a funky culture, donchaknow?

[treemom]

No, Doug wouldn't have been killed. Doug would have hidden his Jewish ancestry and gone into it fully. I don't think he would have shoved people into ovens, but he totally would have bought into Nazism. Just the uniforms for God sakes! And we know he is totally cool with lying about who he is.

[hoipolloi]

No, Doug wouldn't have been killed. Doug would have hidden his Jewish ancestry and gone into it fully. I don't think he would have shoved people into ovens, but he totally would have bought into Nazism. Just the uniforms for God sakes! And we know he is totally cool with lying about who he is.

^This x a million.

And because we know that Doug ALWAYS picks the winning side!

[mausi]

No, Doug wouldn't have been killed. Doug would have hidden his Jewish ancestry and gone into it fully. I don't think he would have shoved people into ovens, but he totally would have bought into Nazism. Just the uniforms for God sakes! And we know he is totally cool with lying about who he is.

Yeah, Doug would have been all over the Hugo Boss uniform.

[Marian the Librarian]

Doug Phillips news this morning, courtesy of Spiritual Sounding Board:

Vision Forum’s fallen patriarchal leader, Doug Phillips, has become a member of another church without obtaining the required “letter of transfer†from the church he established and formerly led, Boerne Christian Assembly.

spiritualsoundingboard.com

Here's the post from Boerne Christian Assembly's website:

Statement Regarding Doug Phillips

Posted July 6th, 2014

As previously noted, Boerne Christian Assembly has sought to exercise oversight and accountability with our former Elder, Doug Phillips, who last year publicly confessed to an inappropriate, long-term relationship with a woman other than his wife and verbally expressed his repentance for his behavior. Recently, contrary to the position established many years ago at Boerne Christian Assembly under his Eldership and which he reaffirmed on multiple occasions, Doug Phillips has left Boerne Christian Assembly and advised that he has become a member of another Church without a letter of transfer from Boerne Christian Assembly. This is a matter of great concern to the body at Boerne Christian Assembly and we are attempting to work through this entire situation in a manner that would be honoring to our Lord. We continue to pray for restoration, wisdom and grace as we determine how we should proceed.

boernechristianassembly.org

The plot thickens.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I just have trouble with this whole concept of needing a letter to transfer churches. These are the far right wing folks who want all of their freedom. People should be able to go to whatever church the choose at any time, for any reason.

I know this has come up before. (and this latest twist must be tickling Jen Epstein and her followers), but can somebody explain this to me?

[nausicaa]

I just have trouble with this whole concept of needing a letter to transfer churches. These are the far right wing folks who want all of their freedom. People should be able to go to whatever church the choose at any time, for any reason.

I know this has come up before. (and this latest twist must be tickling Jen Epstein and her followers), but can somebody explain this to me?

I've never understood it either. It's like needing permission to leave a club. Every mainstream Protestant/Catholic church I've ever been to has people who attend for awhile and then stop attending if they get busy/lose interest/move. How do these manly men submit to such an infantilizing process?

And how do these churches claim the Biblical authority to do this? If churches need letters of approval to accept members, I'd say they're not exactly followig Jesus' teachings on inclusion. (Okay, not that Jesus' teachings ever really directed most of their actions).

[Coconut Flan]

Requiring a letter to change churches should be one of those huge waving red flags to anyone remotely considering joining that church. It sounds like one of Dougie's control tactics is now being turned against him.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I'm not fond of the idea myself because it seems like it could be used to blacklist the person who is leaving from a future church. I do actually know someone who was formally asked to leave a church due to a series of drunken incidents, but no one made a record of it or asked her to sign anything in a letter before she left.

[DomWackTroll]

Yet another example of Doug breaking his own rules.

ETA: Watch him turn Presby and run to the RPCGA. We know he's closer than ever to Spanky.

EATA: My bad. R.C. Jr. is now with the Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches. Tell me how Doug could resist that name? :)

[RachelB]

I am shocked, SHOCKED, that DP is acting as if rules he helped institute do not apply to him!

I've never understood it either. It's like needing permission to leave a club. Every mainstream Protestant/Catholic church I've ever been to has people who attend for awhile and then stop attending if they get busy/lose interest/move. How do these manly men submit to such an infantilizing process?

And how do these churches claim the Biblical authority to do this? If churches need letters of approval to accept members, I'd say they're not exactly followig Jesus' teachings on inclusion. (Okay, not that Jesus' teachings ever really directed most of their actions).

I think their membership agreements hinge on believing that distinct congregations, denominations, etc. are unbiblical-- that the way they're doing things is the way that the early church would have handled matters, if people had been able then to move from place to place as easily as they do now.

From what I can tell, churches with membership agreements like Boerne want to make the local church the measure of all things (and not answerable to oversight by a denomination), but they also want to make it as difficult as possible for "errant" members to evade "church discipline"* for an "offense"** by asking / demanding that other congregations, before receiving a new member, be in communication with the congregations that new member formerly attended.

* loss of leadership position(s), denial of communion, repeatedly being a sermon illustration, shunning-- whatever in-house vigilante justice the pastor / elders / church council feel like imposing

** be it possibly criminal abuse of power a la Doug Phillips or a difference of opinion over doctrine

Churches like Boerne typically cite Matthew 18 to argue for solving legal, ethical, and moral problems within a congregation. But (1) there's so much opportunity for abuse over mere differences of opinion under that system, and (2) addressing all problems in-house means that a congregation isn't distinguishing between theological differences and crimes like stalking, harassment, molestation, and rape. Legal recourse exists for those crimes, for good reasons.

[hoipolloi]

Once more, with feeling:

Do as we say and not as we do.

[DomWackTroll]

Perry on FB: "Hypocrisy is a bitch."

facebook.com/pcoghlan/posts/10204144580473173

Well, I guess you'd know... bitch.

[Marian the Librarian]

Perry on FB: "Hypocrisy is a bitch."

facebook.com/pcoghlan/posts/10204144580473173

Well, I guess you'd know... bitch.

There's some pretty interesting discussion on Perry's FB page below that entry - worth a read. Some friends are encouraging him to start a blog and "write about lessons learned" ("That could be a ministry in and of itself."); Perry says he's afraid of being sued. 26 "Likes" so far, including none other than Peter Serven.

[nokidsmom]

Not at all shocked that DPIAT changed churches without the required (under his rules, that is) letter of transfer.

The rule was there because he wanted to control other people. Now that he longer has that control at BCA, it means nothing to him.

This not about being biblical, forget all that Matthew 18 stuff, this is about control, pure and simple.

[snarkopolis]

I just have trouble with this whole concept of needing a letter to transfer churches. These are the far right wing folks who want all of their freedom. People should be able to go to whatever church the choose at any time, for any reason.

I know this has come up before. (and this latest twist must be tickling Jen Epstein and her followers), but can somebody explain this to me?

Are they holding his spirit? :pink-shock: hostage? He can't join another church without permission? :cracking-up: