All Things Doug Phillips & VF, Including Lourdes's Lawsuit

[FundieWatcher]

They are older than I imagined. I wonder what the next few years hold for them.

[Howl]

Some very touching photos in the Gallery section of their Operation Meatball Website; not too many veterans remain. A lot of the photography looks professional.

I thought I saw a picture of Beall, but none of DP. I'm sure he has been advised to keep a very low profile until the lawsuit is resolved.

[socalrules]

Am I the only one that found it weird that they were dressed in 1940s outfits? It seems inappropriate for such an important event. I hope the brothers didn't dress up like soldiers. Do they play dress up for everything? I don't know anything about the Phillips children so I have no idea if this is normal behavior for them.

[Howl]

Am I the only one that found it weird that they were dressed in 1940s outfits? It seems inappropriate for such an important event. I hope the brothers didn't dress up like soldiers. Do they play dress up for everything? I don't know anything about the Phillips children so I have no idea if this is normal behavior for them.

Some of the younger boys wore little sailor suits. The women's clothes were likely historically accurate designs for clothes worn by women in 1944. Since it was a commemoration and there were historical re-enactors (and re-enactments of soldiers liberating the town), it doesn't seem too out of place. There was a picture of the oldest son and he was not wearing a uniform. That said, historical dress up seems to be a hallmark of the Phillips clan, as it international travel.

What caught my interest was the blog where one of the girls talked about the likelihood that they couldn't attend because "resources were tight." Then the kids got together to ask to go if they "raised the money" themselves. Not that they would go to work and save their wages, or scrimp and save some other way.

I'm guessing they put a presentation together and hit up some deep pockets. It had to be pricey to get 7 or 8 or 9 people over there plus Beall, plus lodging and food for however long they were there.

Honestly, I do hope they have some type of entrepreneurial spirit that could make this type of *re-enactment* travel a viable form of income. Otherwise they are screwed in terms of supporting themselves because they have a screw-up for a dad. I have the best wishes for the kids. They did not bring this situation on themselves. Of course, I'm sure they have bought into the entire patriarchy, legalism, fundie, complementarian, FIC, submission, headship craziness, but they have never known anything else. However, one might hope that travel would open the eyes of at least some of them to the larger world and all that it has to offer. I sense also that most of the kids are "people" people, so likely they feel at ease out in the world.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Their blog is quite interesting.

I feel sorry for these girls, their father is a rapist, and his victim was someone who they knew and liked. They've been in the house through the worst-knowing that their dad molested Lourdes under the same roof that they were sleeping under, seeing their parents marriage have such struggles, having to leave their house and their father's source of income. I hope one day they and all of their siblings can move away from all this and go on to live good lives.

[Elinor]

visionforum.com seems to have gone away too! Drat, I wish I hadn't waited to download all of the covers. Maybe I can find a DPIAT fan site that still has them available.

The catalog covers? I have them but don't know how to post them here.

[Kitchen Princess]

Just want to mention that Letters of Transfer are not a BCA/DPIAT oddity. Baptists have been doing it for eons. I'm sure others do, too. http://www.allaboutbaptists.com/distinc ... rship.html

http://www.nhepiscopal.org/letter-of-transfer

[Palimpsest]

Just want to mention that Letters of Transfer are not a BCA/DPIAT oddity. Baptists have been doing it for eons. I'm sure others do, too. http://www.allaboutbaptists.com/distinc ... rship.html

http://www.nhepiscopal.org/letter-of-transfer

Very true, although (dredging my memory) they were called letters of introduction in the CoE. Basically a letter to the new church saying that you were a member of the old church, a lovely person and a wonderful Sunday School teacher to speed up membership applications. Not that membership was hard -- a warm bum in a pew for a few Sundays was pretty much all it took!

However, I never heard of someone being refused a letter of introduction, nor a letter being sent ahead telling the new church that you were a sinner and had failed to submit to "Church Discipline" as Doug reputedly did to people trying to leave BCA. Therein lies the difference.

Of course, DPIAT is not alone in refusing to follow his own rules about church discipline. He's learned from Scott Brown and Jason Dohm. Although they just started their own competing church instead of submitting to church discipline. See Ephesians511.wordpress.com

[nokidsmom]

Not that membership was hard -- a warm bum in a pew for a few Sundays was pretty much all it took!

Yep, a few years ago my parents just went up and joined a new church and all it took was attending a few Sundays. Never informed their former pastor or fellow congregants, just disappeared from the old church.

Also, and call me cynical, but not too many churches will turn down the prospect of getting a few more bucks in the collection plate or extra volunteers by getting picky over letters of introduction or making sure it's all ok with the old church. This is where I think DPIAT really had his flock completely snowed, this idea of getting "permission".

[Palimpsest]

Of course even in mainstream churches just attending church regularly is not the same as applying for membership and the right to vote on church business, etc. Different denominations have different standards on what people must believe for membership but it's usually quite simple.

Most importantly, most mainstream Christian denominations don't make people sign covenants as detailed and controlling of all aspects of life as BCA and similar Fundie brands of para-church to gain membership. Talk about signing away all your rights to a fair hearing and leaving yourself at the mercy of these Patriachal assholes with no redress. :shock:

Disclaimer: I've never found BCA's Covenant but remember looking at Scott Brown's version and am very sure they are similar. Not something that I would advise anyone to sign. Ever!

[Jasmar]

Does anyone know the part of Jen's story after the BCA fiasco, where she got divorced and (apparently) remarried? I remember reading her story, with the detail how her husband had been abusive but was now fixed, complete with little "you're so right honey" comments by him. But he's the one she's divorced from, right?

[Maxwell]

The catalog covers? I have them but don't know how to post them here.

Thanks for the offer Elinor but that was a bit of sarcasm there. I really have no interest in the covers.

[Howl]

I wonder if DP went back to the church he belonged to before he left to form Boerne Christian Assembly. Anyone know what church that is?

[Rebelwife]

Of course even in mainstream churches just attending church regularly is not the same as applying for membership and the right to vote on church business, etc. Different denominations have different standards on what people must believe for membership but it's usually quite simple.

Most importantly, most mainstream Christian denominations don't make people sign covenants as detailed and controlling of all aspects of life as BCA and similar Fundie brands of para-church to gain membership. Talk about signing away all your rights to a fair hearing and leaving yourself at the mercy of these Patriachal assholes with no redress. :shock:

Disclaimer: I've never found BCA's Covenant but remember looking at Scott Brown's version and am very sure they are similar. Not something that I would advise anyone to sign. Ever!

Yes, we belong to the Episcopal Church and when we moved to a new state we did request a letter of transfer from our old church to our new church. Basically, it was proof that we were confirmed members in good standing so that we would be eligible to vote and serve in the church leadership. The church you're leaving doesn't get a say in it, though, and it's certainly not required in any way other than for voting/serving on the vestry.

[Palimpsest]

I wonder if DP went back to the church he belonged to before he left to form Boerne Christian Assembly. Anyone know what church that is?

If memory serves (and others will correct me if it doesn't and that is fine by me :)) Doug did not form BCA. Doug left (or was kicked out of) HSLDA where he was VA based, and presumably so was his church. In mid/late 90s Doug moved to San Antonio, TX to start Vision Forum, Inc. with mailing lists nicked from HSLDA (disclaimer --sources are HSLDA and JensGems).

VFM came later than VFI and BCA was sort of a "hobby" home church to lend him cred. (source Palimpsest's memory and opinion only.)

IIRC, BCA was created as a home church by Little Bear Wheeler (?) and another person in the early 90s. (Source probably/possibly CnD.) Doug joined BCA as a mere member in the mid-late 90s but took over as an Elder prettydamnfast. I think Little Bear (and other) left voluntarily to plant new churches but Doug's take-over at BCA could certainly bear some scrutiny.

[Maxwell]

If memory serves (and others will correct me if it doesn't and that is fine by me :)) Doug did not form BCA. Doug left (or was kicked out of) HSLDA where he was VA based, and presumably so was his church. In mid/late 90s Doug moved to San Antonio, TX to start Vision Forum, Inc. with mailing lists nicked from HSLDA (disclaimer --sources are HSLDA and JensGems).

VFM came later than VFI and BCA was sort of a "hobby" home church to lend him cred. (source Palimpsest's memory and opinion only.)

IIRC, BCA was created as a home church by Little Bear Wheeler (?) and another person in the early 90s. (Source probably/possibly CnD.) Doug joined BCA as a mere member in the mid-late 90s but took over as an Elder prettydamnfast. I think Little Bear (and other) left voluntarily to plant new churches but Doug's take-over at BCA could certainly bear some scrutiny.

If my memory serves me right, the other pastor was Norm Wakefield, who currently runs Spirit of Elijah Ministries (spiritofelijah.com). He was around the edges back in the earily days of VFI/VFM but seemed to distance himself pretty quickly -- not sure why.

[Palimpsest]

Yes, thanks Maxwell. Elijah Wakefield also sounds right to me as the co-founder of BCA.

Here is more info on Doug's religious and working background before BCA: Pastor Gifford interviewed by "TW Eston" (I may detest TW but I think this article is reliable): Jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/doug-phillips-mentor-and-spiritual-father-speaks-out/

And an article from Libby Anne about Doug and HSLDA post-scandal. patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/04/michael-farris-patriarchy-and-doug-phillips-an-expose.html

The second article shows Mike Farris frantically distancing himself from Doug! Elsewhere Farris claimed that Doug had historically overstated the role he played at HSLDA. He was merely a foot soldier not the person who single-handedly pushed ground-breaking Home Schooling legislation through the courts.

[Maxwell]

Yes, thanks Maxwell. Elijah Wakefield also sounds right to me as the co-founder of BCA.

It's (Spirit of) Elijah Ministries and Norm Wakefield :) Just picking nits. And I'm SO CLOSE to the land of Chatter... just 2 more posts to go!

[Palimpsest]

It's (Spirit of) Elijah Ministries and Norm Wakefield :) Just picking nits. And I'm SO CLOSE to the land of Chatter... just 2 more posts to go!

Oh good, there's someone on FJ almost as nit-picky as me. :P Yes, it's Norm Wakefield and Elijah Ministries. I should have had more caffeine before posting that.

Now respond to this post and you'll be only one away from the sub-forum formerly known as Chatter. It's now "Are You There FJ? It's Me, Margaret" when you go to find it. :mrgreen:

[church_of_dog]

Now respond to this post and you'll be only one away from the sub-forum formerly known as Chatter. It's now "Are You There FJ? It's Me, Margaret" when you go to find it. :mrgreen:

So, if Maxwell stopped posting at 74 posts, s/he might say "Missed it… …by THAT much!" :lol:

[StacyW]

So, if Maxwell stopped posting at 74 posts, s/he might say "Missed it… …by THAT much!" :lol:

I'm old enough to get this!

[Palimpsest]

I'm old enough to get this!

"I asked you not to tell me that."

[Maxwell]

Oh good, there's someone on FJ almost as nit-picky as me. :P Yes, it's Norm Wakefield and Elijah Ministries. I should have had more caffeine before posting that.

Now respond to this post and you'll be only one away from the sub-forum formerly known as Chatter. It's now "Are You There FJ? It's Me, Margaret" when you go to find it. :mrgreen:

Done. :-)

I have a feeling that Chatter (or AYTFJIMM) is going to be as exciting as the Cone of Silence©®! I can hardly wait!!

[spud]

I don't think you need 75 posts any more before you can access AYTFJIMM. I noticed that I had access when I only had 20 posts. I may have had access even earlier but hadn't been logged in for a while.

[Maxwell]

I don't think you need 75 posts any more before you can access AYTFJIMM. I noticed that I had access when I only had 20 posts. I may have had access even earlier but hadn't been logged in for a while.

Nope, you still need 75. I'm at 74, just tried it and was denied access. :cry: