Lori Alexander's Quiet Time

[polecat]

By the way, there's no way Ken will stay out of the conversation on her blog today. She's back on the "Men Control Your Wives" kick.

Couldn't read it all....

She writes:

"Parents, if you can't control your children, then you've found a good ones" or "Government, if you can't control your citizens, then you've found good ones" or "Employers, if you can't control an employee, you've found a good one."

As a parent, I don't *want* to control my kids. I want them to develop SELF control. I guide them and lead them, but I do not believe that I should control them (and before anyone passes out from the shock and horror of it, I'll add that my kids are actually pretty well-behaved, and the parents of their friends have even remarked on it).

At the risk of invoking Godwin's law, how many people would have died in the Holocaust had private citizens been able to stand up and say, "Enough!" and not let their government control them? Lori is ignorant of history and ignorant of life.

[usmcmom]

If I need quiet time, I go to my room. My children can do whatever they want in the rest of the house/garden and can come to me for cuddles, advice etc. But if they come and tell me they're bored, I'll find something for them to clean :D . I try not to confuse MY need for some alone time with their non-existent need for naps.

I can completely understand the need for SAHMs to have down time but I don't understand fundies who insist on having a dozen children and homeschooling the lot of them only to exile them to their rooms for a large chunk of the day. If you need solitude to function (and I do), then send your children to school, scouts, swimming lessons, etc...

I think a lot of these fundie moms don't actually enjoy children. They just enjoy the accolades they get for "mothering" them. I haven't read all of Lori's blogs but she doesn't seem to talk much about doing crafts with her kids or making cookies, playing games, working puzzles, cuddling on the couch for a video. She talks a lot about transporting them, preparing healthy meals and making AWANA a priority, but no real interaction.

[Luvmyskinnyjeanz]

Except Kate made her toddlers stay in their cribs for FOUR hours and if they climbed out early she added 45 minutes to their "nap" time.

I know this sounds harsh but with that many 2 year olds I would too :lol: only joking,I think

, who the hell knows how you would handle her situation. Lori is just a lazy, self righteous bitch.

[latraviata]

I think a lot of these fundie moms don't actually enjoy children. They just enjoy the accolades they get for "mothering" them. I haven't read all of Lori's blogs but she doesn't seem to talk much about doing crafts with her kids or making cookies, playing games, working puzzles, cuddling on the couch for a video. She talks a lot about transporting them, preparing healthy meals and making AWANA a priority, but no real interaction.

Except the beatings.

I always get the impression from many fundie mums that they see their children as their natural enemies. It is too often about discipline and control.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The phrase that keeps popping into my mind is "house arrest". That's how Lori's making it sound, for both mom and the kids.

[Koala]

She writes:

As a parent, I don't *want* to control my kids. I want them to develop SELF control. I guide them and lead them, but I do not believe that I should control them (and before anyone passes out from the shock and horror of it, I'll add that my kids are actually pretty well-behaved, and the parents of their friends have even remarked on it).

At the risk of invoking Godwin's law, how many people would have died in the Holocaust had private citizens been able to stand up and say, "Enough!" and not let their government control them? Lori is ignorant of history and ignorant of life.

I think Lori is all about control. She wrote this in 2011:

If you think being a gentle and submissive wife comes naturally to me, you are very wrong. I am the oldest of three girls. I was bossy and controlling. Ask my sisters. They will tell you I always got my way. (This is my official apology, Alisa and Debbi...I am sorry. Will you forgive me for being such a bossy older sister?)

When our Homeowners Association wouldn't allow basketball hoops in our driveway, guess who wrote the letter protesting and went around and got all the signatures...Me!

When the dog below us yapped constantly, guess who called them all the time, left notes on their door, and wrote a letter telling them they better shut that dog up Or Else and got all the neighbors to sign it...Me!

Ask my children how controlling I was...They had to sneak junk food, so I wouldn't get mad at them. I think they were actually afraid of me, which I don't necessarily think is bad. Kids should have a deep respect for authority.

I am lion...hear my roar! I am no golden retriever like Jon's Mother, Lynette, or my best friend, Sandy. (I LOVE those golden retrievers!) It is not my personality to be gentle and submissive. BUT GOD worked a miracle in my life.

I renewed my mind with His truth, His power has worked mightily in me, and I am a new woman. Ask Ken...He tells everyone he's been married to 20 different women and he likes the latest model the best! (Number 30 will probably be perfect...;) So if I, as a former controlling, manipulative, first-born, bossy lion can change, anyone can, with God's mighty power living in and through you.

The crazy part is, she thinks she's changed. :evil-eye:

[Hane]

Koala's last post explains so much about Lori and her ideas on interpersonal dynamics. It's all about the pushmi-pullyu of power exchange: the very idea of consensual relationships doesn't even exist as a blip on her radar.

Fun fact: As I'm sure most of us here are aware, "power exchange" is a term commonly used in the BDSM community. Of course, Lori would never in a million years admit to having a clue about that.

Oh, and Lori's smug statement that her kids were afraid of her and she thought that that was a good thing? My sisters and I were all afraid of our mother. When I was in my 20s, I actually got up the nerve to tell her so, and she started wailing histrionically, insisting she had NO recollection of the times she'd hit me, banged my head against a wall, or shoved soap or hot pepper down my throat. A couple of years ago, I was driving home from work and out of the blue I found myself screaming, "I'm glad you're dead, you bitch!" From the outside, we all looked like the perfect, happy, dedicated, loyal Italian-American family. Lori, it's too late to check yourself--you've already wrecked yourself.

[polecat]

Koala's last post explains so much about Lori and her ideas on interpersonal dynamics. It's all about the pushmi-pullyu of power exchange: the very idea of consensual relationships doesn't even exist as a blip on her radar.

Fun fact: As I'm sure most of us here are aware, "power exchange" is a term commonly used in the BDSM community. Of course, Lori would never in a million years admit to having a clue about that.

Oh, and Lori's smug statement that her kids were afraid of her and she thought that that was a good thing? My sisters and I were all afraid of our mother. When I was in my 20s, I actually got up the nerve to tell her so, and she started wailing histrionically, insisting she had NO recollection of the times she'd hit me, banged my head against a wall, or shoved soap or hot pepper down my throat. A couple of years ago, I was driving home from work and out of the blue I found myself screaming, "I'm glad you're dead, you bitch!" From the outside, we all looked like the perfect, happy, dedicated, loyal Italian-American family. Lori, it's too late to check yourself--you've already wrecked yourself.

*big hugs* I was always afraid of my parents growing up, too, and when I realized (far later than I should have, tbh), that my kids not only didn't fear me but actually liked me, I started crying. I guess I'd internalized the idea (even while knowing on a logical level that it wasn't true) that kids just didn't like their parents.

I know nothing about Lori's kids, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one some day wakes up to the reality of what has happened to them and writes her out completely. Sure, she may Kensplain it away as them "backsliding," but it won't change the truth of it.

[usmcmom]

I think Ken did talk about Lori's statement re: the kids being afraid of her. His explanation was something like "Yeah, but, ask our kids now if we were good parents and they'd say YES!"

I was afraid of my mom because I never knew when she'd become stark raving crazy with anger and launch into an hour long screaming fit at me. She never hit me but she'd scream in my face for an hour or two and always place herself between me and a doorway so I couldn't just walk away. Hear is what Ken needs to know: when my mom asks me now (and she does) "I was a good mother right? I did a good job, didn't I?" My siblings and I always say "Yeah, Mom, you did a good job," because we don't want to hear her denials or set her off. That, I think is what Ken and Lori's children are doing when they say they had good parents.

One good thing that came of my upbringing is that I learned what NOT to do when raising my children.

[Hane]

Thanks, polecat. I had a similar epiphany when I learned that my daughter actually liked me, too. :)

[latraviata]

Thanks, polecat. I had a similar epiphany when I learned that my daughter actually liked me, too. :)

Yes, surprising isn't it?

In my mind I did so much wrong, when I express my feelings or guilt about it, Cuteneurorad looks at me and says, what are you talking about woman? You did everything possible and more. I know for sure I can speak on behalf of Rigolo (his deceased brother) too when I tell you we always felt your unconditional love, of course you made mistakes, who doesn't, but you are/were a very sweet and good mum, don't worry.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I think Ken did talk about Lori's statement re: the kids being afraid of her. His explanation was something like "Yeah, but, ask our kids now if we were good parents and they'd say YES!"

I was afraid of my mom because I never knew when she'd become stark raving crazy with anger and launch into an hour long screaming fit at me. She never hit me but she'd scream in my face for an hour or two and always place herself between me and a doorway so I couldn't just walk away. Hear is what Ken needs to know: when my mom asks me now (and she does) "I was a good mother right? I did a good job, didn't I?" My siblings and I always say "Yeah, Mom, you did a good job," because we don't want to hear her denials or set her off. That, I think is what Ken and Lori's children are doing when they say they had good parents.

One good thing that came of my upbringing is that I learned what NOT to do when raising my children.

I wish I could give you a hug right now. I experienced exactly the same thing with my parents. It's so hard to explain abuse that never physically hurt you.

[usmcmom]

I wish I could give you a hug right now. I experienced exactly the same thing with my parents. It's so hard to explain abuse that never physically hurt you.

Right back at you, Babycakes. I felt so validated when I was describing this to someone (my family doctor, when talking about my anxiety) and he said "I'm so glad you didn't call it 'JUST' verbal abuse...we all need to quit minimizing what you've described."

I would like to send hugs to all FJ members who suffered through difficult childhoods and have somehow managed to do things just a little better for their own kids and everyone else who is in their life as an adult. Just by doing things better, you are all victorious.

[polecat]

I think Ken did talk about Lori's statement re: the kids being afraid of her. His explanation was something like "Yeah, but, ask our kids now if we were good parents and they'd say YES!"

I was afraid of my mom because I never knew when she'd become stark raving crazy with anger and launch into an hour long screaming fit at me. She never hit me but she'd scream in my face for an hour or two and always place herself between me and a doorway so I couldn't just walk away. Hear is what Ken needs to know: when my mom asks me now (and she does) "I was a good mother right? I did a good job, didn't I?" My siblings and I always say "Yeah, Mom, you did a good job," because we don't want to hear her denials or set her off. That, I think is what Ken and Lori's children are doing when they say they had good parents.

One good thing that came of my upbringing is that I learned what NOT to do when raising my children.

So much this! It's made me a more thoughtful parent, if anything.

[dairyfreelife]

Wow, so Lori is that neighbor...the one causing trouble and whines about everything. I've got a neighbor like that with my dog. Dogs bark, get over it or move away from society. Sorry, I am not beating my dog until she shuts up nor will I shock my dog until she stops barking. Seriously, if someone sent me a note that told me to get my dog to shut up or else, I would scoff and be like, or else what, asshole? Gonna try and get me evicted over a dog who barks or hurt my dog...yeah, dare you to try and I;d have you arrested for animal cruelty and have the note to show for it. So, what was the petition for that all the neighbors signed, to evict your neighbor over a dog doing what dogs do or what? How very Christian of her.

And everytime my dog barks a few times, I have that neighbor who tries to call me...I ignore them. I'd hang on to the notes for proof if my dog was harmed of who likely did it. Basically, she's that neighbor we all have, but can't stand. Why am I not surprised?

[Luvmyskinnyjeanz]

Right back at you, Babycakes. I felt so validated when I was describing this to someone (my family doctor, when talking about my anxiety) and he said "I'm so glad you didn't call it 'JUST' verbal abuse...we all need to quit minimizing what you've described."

I would like to send hugs to all FJ members who suffered through difficult childhoods and have somehow managed to do things just a little better for their own kids and everyone else who is in their life as an adult. Just by doing things better, you are all victorious.

Sometimes people, like me who had happy and loving childhoods, forget how lucky we were. We can never know what it was like for others to live with any sort of abuse. I get so angry at my kids when they complain about things like they only got an iPhone 4s, secondhand, and their friends got a brand new iPhone 5. But reassuring that I am doing the right thing if that's what they consider bad in their lives. But I want them to realise not everyone is as lucky as our family has been.

Hugs to you all.

[latraviata]

So much this! It's made me a more thoughtful parent, if anything.

Oh absolutely!!

[docmom]

If you think being a gentle and submissive wife comes naturally to me, you are very wrong. I am the oldest of three girls. I was bossy and controlling. Ask my sisters. They will tell you I always got my way. (This is my official apology, Alisa and Debbi...I am sorry. Will you forgive me for being such a bossy older sister?)

When our Homeowners Association wouldn't allow basketball hoops in our driveway, guess who wrote the letter protesting and went around and got all the signatures...Me!

When the dog below us yapped constantly, guess who called them all the time, left notes on their door, and wrote a letter telling them they better shut that dog up Or Else and got all the neighbors to sign it...Me!

Ask my children how controlling I was...They had to sneak junk food, so I wouldn't get mad at them. I think they were actually afraid of me, which I don't necessarily think is bad. Kids should have a deep respect for authority.

I am lion...hear my roar! I am no golden retriever like Jon's Mother, Lynette, or my best friend, Sandy. (I LOVE those golden retrievers!) It is not my personality to be gentle and submissive. BUT GOD worked a miracle in my life.

I think it's very telling that all of Lori's "bossy" energy was directed into campaigns against something. Now, if she'd used her gifts for organization to collect money for the Red Cross or organize a walk to raise money for cancer research it'd be different. But then it wouldn't be Lori...

[usmcmom]

I think it's very telling that all of Lori's "bossy" energy was directed into campaigns against something. Now, if she'd used her gifts for organization to collect money for the Red Cross or organize a walk to raise money for cancer research it'd be different. But then it wouldn't be Lori...

And she seems so proud of her "bossy" nature; just like she is proud that her kids feared her. When Ken was here, he always seemed very proud of their stance on spanking and their food battles, etc. Most of us, when we look back on something we did with our kids - something that we realized later was too harsh - we feel regret, we are ashamed of ourselves. Ken and Lori dig their heels in and get all smug and arrogant and insist they'd spank their kid for hours all over again; or make their child sit at the table and force feed them for hours. They are both monsters and I feel bad for their grandkids.

[Coconut Flan]

Wow, so Lori is that neighbor...the one causing trouble and whines about everything. I've got a neighbor like that with my dog. Dogs bark, get over it or move away from society. Sorry, I am not beating my dog until she shuts up nor will I shock my dog until she stops barking. Seriously, if someone sent me a note that told me to get my dog to shut up or else, I would scoff and be like, or else what, asshole? Gonna try and get me evicted over a dog who barks or hurt my dog...yeah, dare you to try and I;d have you arrested for animal cruelty and have the note to show for it. So, what was the petition for that all the neighbors signed, to evict your neighbor over a dog doing what dogs do or what? How very Christian of her.

And everytime my dog barks a few times, I have that neighbor who tries to call me...I ignore them. I'd hang on to the notes for proof if my dog was harmed of who likely did it. Basically, she's that neighbor we all have, but can't stand. Why am I not surprised?

Something to consider, but in my neighborhood you can be fined for an excessively barking dog. It is an annoyance to the neighbors. I'm not saying your dog is a nuisance, but some are. We had to speak to one neighbor as his dog barked a lot at night and kept waking us up. I'm sure Lori was upset over something much more minor but it is a thought.

[HoneyBunny]

Wow, so Lori is that neighbor...the one causing trouble and whines about everything. I've got a neighbor like that with my dog. Dogs bark, get over it or move away from society. Sorry, I am not beating my dog until she shuts up nor will I shock my dog until she stops barking. Seriously, if someone sent me a note that told me to get my dog to shut up or else, I would scoff and be like, or else what, asshole? Gonna try and get me evicted over a dog who barks or hurt my dog...yeah, dare you to try and I;d have you arrested for animal cruelty and have the note to show for it. So, what was the petition for that all the neighbors signed, to evict your neighbor over a dog doing what dogs do or what? How very Christian of her.

And everytime my dog barks a few times, I have that neighbor who tries to call me...I ignore them. I'd hang on to the notes for proof if my dog was harmed of who likely did it. Basically, she's that neighbor we all have, but can't stand. Why am I not surprised?

Geesh, I've sent notes for incessant dog(s) barking. I think four hours straight of two dogs barking in the hot sun needs to be brought to their owner's attention. I also solicited neighbors' signatures when the first letter didn't work, and then we collectively brought animal control into it. The neighbor fought tooth and nail until she finally moved "to save her dogs" from us meanies.

I would never hurt anyone's barking dog, and think it's wrong to imply that someone who complains might be inclined that way.

[polecat]

Geesh, I've sent notes for incessant dog(s) barking. I think four hours straight of two dogs barking in the hot sun needs to be brought to their owner's attention. I also solicited neighbors' signatures when the first letter didn't work, and then we collectively brought animal control into it. The neighbor fought tooth and nail until she finally moved "to save her dogs" from us meanies.

I would never hurt anyone's barking dog, and think it's wrong to imply that someone who complains might be inclined that way.

I gather the OP's dog is barking in a normal dog way (oo! squirrel! ooo! helicopter seed! OOOOOOOO! PERSON!!!!!), but a dog that's barking constantly is not only a noisy nuisance but is signalling that something isn't right. Maybe it's chained constantly or in the hot sun or in the bitter cold or in the pouring rain or caged in a tiny cage without proper human interaction or suffering from separation anxiety. Regardless, while I haven't called the police or animal control over a constantly barking dog, I certainly would if I thought the dog was at risk in some way or was somehow being neglected.

[EmmieJ]

Our kids are almost never in their rooms unless they need alone time or they're sleeping. I can understand instituting a "quiet time" routine for kids who are young or who need that extra structure. I encourage mine to spend time reading at least part of every day. We're sort of a together-y family, so whether we're reading or just hanging out, we tend to cluster in the family room (which is really, really big and both the warmest room in the winter and the coolest room in the summer).

Very similar at our house, except I have just one teenage child. But it's always been like this - we spend most of our home time in the living room, where we each have a couch we consider "mine." He watches a lot of sports on tv, while I read and periodically look up to see a big play. I like the idea of having a routine that includes quiet time, a time for rest or reading or other quiet activity. While I didn't have that as part of a planned routine, I did read to my son at bedtime for years, and it was very soothing for both of us.

[littlemommy]

I have three kids five and under, and only the baby naps (and not consistently, that mean ol' baby). We do "quiet time", too. It's not only to ward off my impending breakdown, but also because the boys need to rest and recharge, especially if they won't nap. They can either sit and watch a video or play somewhere, preferably quietly (no running, light saber dueling, etc). Most of the time quiet time happens. If the baby sleeps, I have an hour to cross stitch...or read things like FreeJinger. If she doesn't sleep, I nurse her while I play on my ipad or watch whatever the kids are watching. I love quiet time.

But if quiet time doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen. I would bet my life that Lori spanked kids that dared emerge from their room during her quiet hours. That would seem a little counter intuitive to the peace that "quiet time" would imply.

[dairyfreelife]

I gather the OP's dog is barking in a normal dog way (oo! squirrel! ooo! helicopter seed! OOOOOOOO! PERSON!!!!!), but a dog that's barking constantly is not only a noisy nuisance but is signalling that something isn't right. Maybe it's chained constantly or in the hot sun or in the bitter cold or in the pouring rain or caged in a tiny cage without proper human interaction or suffering from separation anxiety. Regardless, while I haven't called the police or animal control over a constantly barking dog, I certainly would if I thought the dog was at risk in some way or was somehow being neglected.

My dog barks at everything and I can't and don't leave her out long because of that. My neighbor complains within a few minutes of her barking though. Yes, I get it's annoying to hear dogs bark all the time, but I guess I just don't really see the issue. Dogs bark. My dog is a retriever, so she just gets over excited at all sorts of noises. I'm not trying to be a nuisance with my dog, but having had that dog that barks a lot, and I hear dogs barking all the time. Neighbors up from me have two corgis and they bark a lot. It just never occurs to me to complain about their dogs barking for hours. Sure, they could make their dogs go inside, but I know it can be hard to control your dogs barking. I know one neighbor who bought a bark collar to appease the neighbor who whines at all dogs barking. This neighbor calls other's neighbors to complain that our dogs barking is making his dogs bark. Yes, really. I dunno, I guess most people here just are more mellow and don't care about dogs barking as much. There's a dog that howls every morning at 4am here. Most people around here just laugh about it, so I suppose I just don't get the problem.

Also, I did not imply everyone who complains wants to harm the dog. It was Lori's OR ELSE that made me question that. It's not like she hasn't hurt animals before sadly. I don't think my neighbor would harm my dog, even if he whines about them. I do some people are assholes though and I wouldn't put it past some people to actually hurt an animal.