Bates Updates

[nausicaa]

Does she have a kidney infection or a UTI. I bothers me when some people label everything a kidney infection which is much more serious then a UTI. As someone who has only 1 kidney and has spent weeks in the hospital battling serious kidney infections over the years I also wondered about Erin's knowledge of symptoms and treatments. Usually you have some warning signs before an infection becomes a full blown kidney infection. I saw Whitney was using the same Christian clinic Dr that Kelly did. I wonder if Erin uses him to (I would have to assume so since Chad and Zach work at the same scarp metal yard). It might be uncomfortable to talk about pain because it might make it look like you are complaining(confusing pain related to sex with a real medical issue like a UTI). I remember watching an episode of the Tyra show years ago and she said her mom gave her a mirror and told her to know he body and I wished my mom had done the same. I remember right after I was married my husband who was a dr had to give his first ob/gyn exam and was honestly a bit confused, I can just imagine how these girls like Erin are.

I was wondering that too. I've had several UTIs and only one kidney infection, and it was serious. And occurred after three weeks of a bladder infection that made me want to cry everytime I peed (I was a busy, stupid college student without health insurance so I just kept hoping things would get better).

I have to say that as many UTIs as I've had, I've never gotten one from sex (only drinking caffeine and being dehydrated). Though I have heard before that it's best to pee right afterwards. It makes me wonder how little these young women know about basic health (drinking lots of water and cranberry juice generally keeps UTIs at bay) let alone sexual health. Hopefully her doctor talked to her about all of this.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Eew. Am I the only one who thinks it's a little gross to be speculating about Erin peeing after sex? Oh noes, a kidney infection? She obviously knows nothing about her body and acceptable post-sex protocol! :roll:

[for_the_Kitties]

I don't think it is weird or gross at all. I had no idea about the peeing after intimacy unspoken rule until I got a terrible bladder infection from a UTI from a not so wholesome relationship while in college. I feel bad for Erin to have to go through it, but honestly, most people do. if anything it will teach her to LEARN about her body and the do/don't of being intimate. I;m not grossed out that it happened or on any of the speculation, but I am weirded out that Kelly posted about it.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I don't think it is weird or gross at all. I had no idea about the peeing after intimacy unspoken rule until I got a terrible bladder infection from a UTI from a not so wholesome relationship while in college. I feel bad for Erin to have to go through it, but honestly, most people do. if anything it will teach her to LEARN about her body and the do/don't of being intimate. I;m not grossed out that it happened or on any of the speculation, but I am weirded out that Kelly posted about it.

Not peeing after sex is not the only way to get a UTI.

[Antimony]

Wait, are you supposed to pee after sex?

I always do but only cause sex makes me to have to pee...probably because my dates usually start with some wine/ciders and then (hours of) sex and by that time, I gotta pee, but I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that.

I had a really comprehensive, open sex ed and that never came up.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Wait, are you supposed to pee after sex?

I always do but only cause sex makes me to have to pee...probably because my dates usually start with some wine/ciders and then (hours of) sex and by that time, I gotta pee, but I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that.

I had a really comprehensive, open sex ed and that never came up.

I had actually never heard this before FJ either. I always pee though. I can't imagine someone wouldn't eventually need to pee relatively close after intercourse, so I don't know why it's such a problem. I just find it strange...the speculation on Erin's sexual habits, the implication that a UTI is obviously the result of poor sex education. Just weird to me.

[Rebelwife]

Wait, are you supposed to pee after sex?

I always do but only cause sex makes me to have to pee...probably because my dates usually start with some wine/ciders and then (hours of) sex and by that time, I gotta pee, but I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that.

I had a really comprehensive, open sex ed and that never came up.

It is generally considered to be a very good thing to do, especially if you are prone to bladder infections. PIV sex can push bacteria from the vagina into the urethra and peeing afterwards can wash the bacteria back out.

[nokidsmom]

It is generally considered to be a very good thing to do, especially if you are prone to bladder infections. PIV sex can push bacteria from the vagina into the urethra and peeing afterwards can wash the bacteria back out.

Vaginal opening and urethra are pretty close so bacteria can easily get in. Also, urinating can help flush out bacteria around the vaginal opening too.

[nokidsmom]

No. It was a public election, therefore a public concession, congratulations, and thanking your supporters is in order. Anything short of that shows that you are a sore loser.

ETA: This makes me seriously wonder if Bateses send thank you notes for wedding and baby presents.

Publicly conceeding, congratulating the other candidate and thanking supporters is pretty standard protocol for elections. A phone call can be made also, but it's important to do this in public as well. If nothing else, it helps your image for the next run. So really Zach should have done all of those things. I suspect the "politically asute" Zach (per his mother's words) needs to learn a few things about election protocol.

I rather doubt that the Bates actually send thank you notes for all they get. Don't know for sure, but given the sheer number of gifts, the grifting / entitlement mentality that they have and the whole "email" invitation process to just about anyone and everyone, I somehow think thank you notes never make it out the door.

I don't really think the Bates are better than the Duggars as some people assert. Sure they let their kids go to "college" and court people they really like, but Kelly and Gil have forced their lifestyle on their kids just as much as the J'parents have, promote the same harmful beliefs and are probably just as obnoxious whereever they go.

[nausicaa]

I had actually never heard this before FJ either. I always pee though. I can't imagine someone wouldn't eventually need to pee relatively close after intercourse, so I don't know why it's such a problem. I just find it strange...the speculation on Erin's sexual habits, the implication that a UTI is obviously the result of poor sex education. Just weird to me.

I certainly don't think that getting a UTI must be the result of poor sex education (I've had several, and mine weren't from sex. Just a bad Pepsi addiction and a bladder the size of an espresso cup). Erin could have been getting them for a long time and is just naturally more prone to them. I was just speculating at the end of my post that when things like this do happen as a result of sex, how much is there a delay in dealing with it because of their religious/cultural beliefs. Especially if it were a kidney infection, and not just a UTI. (My kidney infection was the result of a prolonged UTI and bladder infection. And once I learned about proper hydration + cranberry juice around the age of 20, 21 I didn't get UTIs nearly as much anymore).

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I didn't really mean to be yelling specifically at you for it, Nausicaa. Sorry. This whole peeing-after-sex/UTI thing has come up in recent threads once or twice already. And it always seems to be about these poor fundie girls, and their pathetic sexual knowledge, and "if they just weren't so sexually repressed this wouldn't happen". It just really irritated me this time for some reason. I'm crabby today...my kids are being annoying :-)

[formergothardite]

I was one of those poor fundie girls who got a UTI after I started having sex because my knowledge of sex was slim to none. And since I was having sex before marriage there was no way I was going to ask my mom and I was super embarrassed when I finally went to the doctor and he asked if I was just becoming sexually active because that could cause a UTI. And I have spoken to other women who have had the same thing, some fundie, some not. But I have found that the fundie ones were the ones who were most ashamed about it. Especially if they were sexually active outside of marriage.

I actually think if I wasn't so sexually repressed and shamed about having sex outside of marriage that I would have gone to the doctor sooner. Purity culture sucks for the people in it.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I was one of those poor fundie girls who got a UTI after I started having sex because my knowledge of sex was slim to none. And since I was having sex before marriage there was no way I was going to ask my mom and I was super embarrassed when I finally went to the doctor and he asked if I was just becoming sexually active because that could cause a UTI. And I have spoken to other women who have had the same thing, some fundie, some not. But I have found that the fundie ones were the ones who were most ashamed about it. Especially if they were sexually active outside of marriage.

I actually think if I wasn't so sexually repressed and shamed about having sex outside of marriage that I would have gone to the doctor sooner. Purity culture sucks for the people in it.

I'm sorry about your experience, but I see no reason why you couldn't have talked to your mom about a UTI. Urinary tract infection does not equal having sex. That's my point.

ETA I had sex education in school, and plenty of it from friends; peeing after sex to help avoid UTIs isn't exactly the number one priority in sex ed talks. It's squicks/weird/foolish to me to make the leaps that Erin is fundie therefore Erin must know nothing about sex therefore Erin is not peeing properly after intercourse therefore she has a UTI.

And now I realize I'm talking about the poor girl's sex life the most. Ugh.

[guidedbybobafett]

Urinating after sex is not something they teach in sex ed in my experience, and I grew up in the northern United States where it is relatively comprehensive. That was something I learned from friends and the internet. Also, while UTIs and kidney infections are not strictly "the same thing", an untreated UTI can turn into a kidney infection so it isn't preposterous to consider them in the same conversation.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

My sister had a UTI that turned into a kidney infection. But it was because she wasn't drinking enough, not because of poor habits after sex (I'm pretty sure she was still a virgin at that point).

Edited because sometimes when I'm tired I use the wrong word.

[DrWhat]

While it is possible to contract UTIs without having sex, the timing is definitely telling. I am an internist and if Erin were in my office for this I would definitely instruct her to be sure she is urinating after sex based solely on what I know from the blog! Somewhat unsettling. "Honeymoon cystitis" is actually a well-known and common phenomenon in women who start having UTIs after intercourse and is even associated with a specific bacterial species.

For the record UTI = urinary tract infection, but in good practice one should specify cystitis (bacteria in urine with symptoms of abdominal pain and painful urination) vs pyelonephritis (infection has ascended to the kidney resulting is more severe symptoms and other specific clinical findings). You can have pyelonephritis without cystitis but it is much rarer and would have to come from a bad infection in the blood or spread from another specific source.

[nausicaa]

I didn't really mean to be yelling specifically at you for it, Nausicaa. Sorry. This whole peeing-after-sex/UTI thing has come up in recent threads once or twice already. And it always seems to be about these poor fundie girls, and their pathetic sexual knowledge, and "if they just weren't so sexually repressed this wouldn't happen". It just really irritated me this time for some reason. I'm crabby today...my kids are being annoying :-)

Oh no problem! Actually, I wanted to post a second time, because I reread my first post and realized that if read in a different tone that I could be conveying a different message than I intended.

[formergothardite]

I'm sorry about your experience, but I see no reason why you couldn't have talked to your mom about a UTI. Urinary tract infection does not equal having sex. That's my point.

ETA I had sex education in school, and plenty of it from friends; peeing after sex to help avoid UTIs isn't exactly the number one priority in sex ed talks. It's squicks/weird/foolish to me to make the leaps that Erin is fundie therefore Erin must know nothing about sex therefore Erin is not peeing properly after intercourse therefore she has a UTI.

And now I realize I'm talking about the poor girl's sex life the most. Ugh.

Because I didn't really know what was happening and I was worried that if I talked to her about it she would realize I was having sex before marriage. See, that is what the "having sex before marriage means you aren't pure and you have committed a horrible sin" does to some people. I was in my early 20's and it is just sad that I still felt that way. But I didn't want my parents to be disappointed in me and if they found out I was sleeping with my boyfriend they would have acted like the world was coming to an end.

I actually do pity Erin because not only is she being raised fundie, she has parents who are okay with exploiting her on reality television to get money/fame/ bring attention to their fundie belief system, and she is going to be held up as the poster child for her parents' beliefs, so even if she decides she wants to use birth control, go get a job, wear shorts and a tank top, she is going to have a lot of pressure to keep in line so she won't shame her parents.

[Ralar]

This, my fellow hive-mates, may be why Zach lost the race:

The Duggar Family hosted a fund raiser rally, made several robo calls, invested in the campaign, and were a huge source of counsel and wisdom. Josh Duggar and Jimmy Ranier designed the two mailers.

“A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches.†Proverbs 22:1

I would never vote for a candidate with a biblical reference on their campaign materials.

Do you think Lawson was PO'd that Kelly posted this pic?

Why can't they just say the kid is relaxing and PLAYING CARDS? Why does any kind of recreation with non-family have to be FELLOWSHIPPING?

[nokidsmom]

Because I didn't really know what was happening and I was worried that if I talked to her about it she would realize I was having sex before marriage. See, that is what the "having sex before marriage means you aren't pure and you have committed a horrible sin" does to some people. I was in my early 20's and it is just sad that I still felt that way. But I didn't want my parents to be disappointed in me and if they found out I was sleeping with my boyfriend they would have acted like the world was coming to an end.

I actually do pity Erin because not only is she being raised fundie, she has parents who are okay with exploiting her on reality television to get money/fame/ bring attention to their fundie belief system, and she is going to be held up as the poster child for her parents' beliefs, so even if she decides she wants to use birth control, go get a job, wear shorts and a tank top, she is going to have a lot of pressure to keep in line so she won't shame her parents.

Formergothardite, I can relate to your experience in terms of how my parents would react to my having sex before marriage. I wasn't raised fundie but my parents were pretty religious and really hung up on the "no sex before marriage" thing. They didn't talk but things like "purity" but the message to me and my sisters was clear: that premarital sex was bad because you weren't pure and no decent guy would want you. I was also in my early 20's and went to extraordinary lengths to keep my parents from knowing. Besides the whole disappointment thing, there was also the factor that they would treat my then boyfriend (now husband) like dirt for "sullying" their daughter.

Back to Erin, do agree that Erin is her parents' poster child to demonstrate how great their lifestyle is supposed to be. Beautiful, talented, has her "degree" FWIW, married to a good guy (seriously do think that BTW) so she's the one who's going to be held up as the the shining example. Her younger sibs may be more fortunate in that they aren't the "golden children" meaning Zach and Erin. While that may have been a PITA to live with while they were under their parents' roof, once out of the house, they may have feel they have greater freedom to break away from their parent's lifestyle and not worry so much about disappointing Mom and Dad.

I do wonder how Erin deals with that pressure. She probably doesn't see it for what it is right now and maybe never will. But it's still there and wonder how much happier she would be and how much more she could really accomplish if she didn't have to live with that.

[feministing]

So when I saw this, I immediately thought of something that I mentioned months ago somewhere on FJ, when it was being discussed how fundie girls are so not ready for sex when they start having it, and to me that also meant they probably have to learn the hard way about proper peeing before/after in order to avoid infections. Erin et al probably have no resources to understand that kind of stuff, and now that she has a kidney infection that kind of confirms it for me. I really hope Ma Bates would inform her of some of that stuff because after dealing with chronic UTIs and kidney infections myself for many years, that shit sucks.

I was raised fundie-lite. This happened to me. I ended up in the hospital with a kidney infection after recurrent UTIs. A college friend finally told me about the peeing thing and it clicked.

[donks]

Publicly conceeding, congratulating the other candidate and thanking supporters is pretty standard protocol for elections. A phone call can be made also, but it's important to do this in public as well. If nothing else, it helps your image for the next run. So really Zach should have done all of those things. I suspect the "politically asute" Zach (per his mother's words) needs to learn a few things about election protocol.

I rather doubt that the Bates actually send thank you notes for all they get. Don't know for sure, but given the sheer number of gifts, the grifting / entitlement mentality that they have and the whole "email" invitation process to just about anyone and everyone, I somehow think thank you notes never make it out the door.

I don't really think the Bates are better than the Duggars as some people assert. Sure they let their kids go to "college" and court people they really like, but Kelly and Gil have forced their lifestyle on their kids just as much as the J'parents have, promote the same harmful beliefs and are probably just as obnoxious whereever they go.

And they starve their horses.

[16strong]

Why can't they just say the kid is relaxing and PLAYING CARDS? Why does any kind of recreation with non-family have to be FELLOWSHIPPING?

Word. I saw that and thought the same thing.

[scc12]

I wonder if Erin was given advice to stay lying down after sex to improve the chance of conception? I do recall reading that in a book somewhere.Not that it's necessary,I do know! lol

And I also wonder if she feels the need to cuddle afterwards,therefore delaying getting up.Idk what on earth fundies are told..that could very well be the case.Stay close to your hub afterwards for awhile,that would put off getting up.not good advice.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

All this talk of peeing after sex makes me think I have a UT of steel. I've never peed right after sex. Well maybe once when I started sex needing to pee (that was uncomfortable). But I usually don't pee for a least an hour, but usually a few hours. I wouldn't be able to if I tried. I've never been the person to pee on demand (I have no idea what I'll do when I'm pregnant and have to submit pee tests) and I don't feel the need until a while after any kind of sexual interaction.

But I've (knock on wood again) never had a UTI.