Lori Alexander: Valentine's Day Causes Divorce

[Ken]

Oh Koala... I just saw it...

Real quick response... I do not care what you and your husband do in your bedroom so long as it is decent, god pleasing and you both like it. Bedroom stuff is for bedrooms, and privacy should allow all couples to chooser how they want to foul around. I do understand that some women like to have their man show he is dominant in bed, and then they turn around and boss him around all day long... or maybe they play the submissive type.

Lori and I are not as informed and sophisticated as you all seem to be on the DD and BSDM stuff. Never read the 50 Shades of Gray, and never will. If you must know, Lori enjoys a man who is gentle with her and not forceful and I try to oblige.

So don't let me stop your fun. You all think this forum is fun stuff... so I can imagine what some think of fun for sex. Is it decent and God pleasing? He is watching. is the discipline for fun, even if a few smacks sting, or is it some weird fetish? I don't really care what you do in your bedroom or any other bedroom around the world. God has certain rules and I am opposed to sodomy ... because the Bible is. Pretty much other than that the Bible is silent on what type of sex. And yes, call it what you want... I see it as mainly sex play.

Are you happy now?

[Loveday]

I'm starting to wonder how he has enough time in the day to type multiple "walls o' text" when he types by hunting and pecking.

This. He just said he needs to get back to work, and yet here he is again... :think:

[salex]

Yes, those are probably my words. I did not realize that naughty meant anything other than being bad. Are you saying this is a bedroom word and code word for sex? Or a certain type of sex? If so, you are really stretching things here to assume that I would know this. FYI, Lori has never called herself naughty to me... I just chose the word as it came to mind. Wrong or bad? Are those the words you would have wanted me to use?

I am going to pop in here and say this. The "naughty girl" blog post was the first time I ever heard of Lori or her blog. I was relatively new to Free Jinger, which I had found because I was becoming concerned with Dominionism in politics in my state.

I popped out to Lori's blog and, in a pretty non snarky way, mentioned to her 2 things. Using the term like that was a well known sexy submissive usage and vast numbers of readers would take it that way so she might want to change it and that I didn't think marriages had to be submissive to be successful. I was not only deleted, but blocked. So this isn't the first time anyone mentioned the naughty girl reference.

Secondly, Ken, you are roughly my age. Unless you really have been living in a hole your whole life, this is not a new term or concept... it is a common enough that variations are in many relatively tame venues.

Just google "I've been a naughty girl" --but if you have the software that tells your minister when you have been looking at porn, you might want to use a different computer if you click on anything.

Are you sure it wasn't just an SEO trick?

[salex]

See wrong again ... I had a manger who all her coworkers complained about her being string headed and difficult. I spoke to her about it as a good manager would and I was very kind. She said to me, "I am sorry but none of what you are saying to me makes any sense, because I am not that way."

That shocked me, but I then asked her to think about it and talk to her best friend or husband about it and we agreed she would let me know what they said. She called me and told me that her husband said this was something he wanted to talk to her about for some time now.

No marriage advice... just dealing with workplace issues so that her coworkers could exist with her and would no longer request that I fire her. I am into the redemption business, not the firing business and do whatever it takes within reason to help coworkers get along and enjoy each other.

But again another jump to wrong conclusions... when you are predisposed to seeing evil around every bush... guess what... you see things that are not real.

However your quote does not say. "I had a manager others thought was hard headed and difficult to work with so I asked her to talk to her husband or friend to see if others thought the same." It says.

I have a similar conversation with a strong headed female coworker one time who told me that she and her husband never fought or really disagreed and they had an equal marriage.

and you were relating it to my claims about my marriage. So-- it is not us seeing things that are not real, it is us seeing what you told us, before your story change or clarification. If you don't tell the whole story, people will form opinions based on what you told them. Coming back afterwards to castigate people for jumping to conclusions or call them predisposed to seeing evil, when what they are replying to is exactly what you wrote is well, dishonest.

[Koala]

I have to get to work,. and then try to get back on with answering questions tonight.

Koala... it is too long a story for now as to how Alyssa chose at 10-11 to become a professional ballerina, but I can almost recall the day. Alyssa danced for some of the major companies during summer camps, but she had chosen at 10 or 11 a Christian Ballet Group Ballet Magnificat to be her life mission when she grew up. She was our first, and we knew nothing about body image for teens or any other issues with ballet back then. You have a perspective today that is much more enlightened, mainly because of the Internet and the much faster flow of communications. Keep that in mind in context as you judge us. Knowledge is now abounding.

We also have had little fear about what God is calling our kids to... whether professional ballet or an orthodontist, EXCEPT for the secular universities that spew secular thinking as if it is some great wisdom, and profs who mock anything religious or Christian in their classrooms. But fear about body image? We do not expect to go through life with zero struggles, we just expect God and His wisdom to be there with us through it all.. even if we make mistakes, because we will not handle everything perfectly.

Yes, we talked to Alyssa about her weight gain, but we did it as we thought sensibly. Alyssa would never be considered fat but she carried with her some fat in the areas women tend to get it, and it doesn't work for ballet well. Fortunately, the group she danced for always wore elegant longer dresses to the knees... and all looked better than regular ballet in my opinion. I do not like the skinny look myself, and Alyssa looked good, but a couple of times probably added an extra 5 lbs on top of the 5 she normally carried more than most ballerinas. We suspected that Alyssa had a lower functioning thyroid and it runs in my family, and we discussed this with her as she seemed to eat like a bird.

I think if you ask her now she would say that shew as eating far more than she was keeping track of with her friends and eating the wrong stuff. She loves snacking... chips and crackers... and ice cream is her weakness. She knew full well of our love for her no matter what weight, and we assured her that ballet or no ballet she was just fine in our books, but if she wanted to do ballet, discipline with snacking and ice cream was necessary.

Does anyone want to hear that tey have gained an extra 5 lbs in the behind? Of course not. But yo are a parent, so tell me how you plan on handling it when your daughter is now 10 lbs overweight? No time to panic, but is it not time to talk to her to help see where you can be a help in getting her the right foods and habits? What kind of parent let's a child go to 12-15 lbs overweight and never says a word to discuss it with them. No blame, no condemnation.. actually I shared with Alyssa my struggles with keeping weight off... it is a life long battle for most of us. How about 20 lbs is that when you step in... and kick yourself for not loving your child enough to step in earlier?

I am curious, did your assertion that your daughter was overweight stem from something your pediatrician said, or was this something that you and Lori determined on your own? Because to be honest I am shocked that you noticed an extra 5 lbs (thank god for the longer ballet dresses right :roll: ), but you failed to notice she was depressed, not eating well, and troubled about her body. I think it's disgusting that your wife (and you) direct posts regarding weight towards young women while failing to mention that your own child struggled with this very issue. I personally believe (based on what the pair of you have written) that it was spurred by Lori's own obsession with her weight AND the weight of her daughters.

Parents... talk to your kids about weight before they even become overweight. Be sensible about it, explain the body type, but fat is fat no matter where you store it... and a little extra is healthy and a lot extra is not.

You are hardly in a position to be advising parents on how to handle weight/body image issues with their children.

No Lori most likely never referred to weighty gain as sin... because it is not. Gluttony is sin, but some natural weight gain is not sin, and neither is it sin to be fat. What misses God's mark (sin) is not being the best we can be in the important area of keeping in shape. Some can carry extra weight and be in shape. Some like me cannot as it all goes to one place.

As our daughters got older, if we thought they were gaining weight, we would talk to them about it. I know this is supposedly a "taboo" subject but we felt no subject was "taboo" with our children. If we saw any sin in their lives, we would talk to them about it.

Does this not imply that weight gain is a sin?

[snuggles911]

Does anyone want to hear that tey have gained an extra 5 lbs in the behind? Of course not. But yo are a parent, so tell me how you plan on handling it when your daughter is now 10 lbs overweight? No time to panic, but is it not time to talk to her to help see where you can be a help in getting her the right foods and habits? What kind of parent let's a child go to 12-15 lbs overweight and never says a word to discuss it with them. No blame, no condemnation.. actually I shared with Alyssa my struggles with keeping weight off... it is a life long battle for most of us. How about 20 lbs is that when you step in... and kick yourself for not loving your child enough to step in earlier?

This is an area where parents should thread VERY carefully. I was a chubby teenager. My mom was constantly nagging me about my weight. I ended up becoming bulimic throughout college. It greatly impacted my education and my body image.

There's a difference b/w being medically overweight and aesthetically overweight. I wouldn't harp on my child for having some extra padding on her hips and thighs.

Regarding Lori's blog, I read it every day though I've never commented. It gives me an idea of how fundamentalist Christians think and it's been helpful to me in that regard. But I disagree with her stance about divorce never being OK, even if a husband is abusive and I don't think it's a good idea to promote books written by a couple whose techniques have been connected to the deaths of innocent children.

On a positive note, at least Lori's blog is void of all the foul language, sex talk, racist ideology, and anti-sufferage nonsense that's so prevalent on SSM's blog. Maybe SSM will learn something about how to behave/write like a respectable Christian woman from hanging out at Always Learning.

[Koala]

Lori and I are not as informed and sophisticated as you all seem to be on the DD and BSDM stuff. Never read the 50 Shades of Gray, and never will. If you must know, Lori enjoys a man who is gentle with her and not forceful and I try to oblige.

So don't let me stop your fun. You all think this forum is fun stuff... so I can imagine what some think of fun for sex. Is it decent and God pleasing? He is watching. is the discipline for fun, even if a few smacks sting, or is it some weird fetish? I don't really care what you do in your bedroom or any other bedroom around the world. God has certain rules and I am opposed to sodomy ... because the Bible is. Pretty much other than that the Bible is silent on what type of sex. And yes, call it what you want... I see it as mainly sex play.

Are you happy now?

Deflecting DOES NOT look good on you Ken. It was YOU, not ME who made this statement:

"Lori would be clear that no physical pain should be tolerated unless it is truly by voluntary consent, and she is not an advocate for domestic discipline. "

Now perhaps you don't follow me, but according to you Lori DOES NOT advocate for DD, so DO YOU (Ken) find it acceptable for a man to inflict pain on his wife if she consents?

[Koala]

If you think the Alexanders or me, we sound too perfect... you are correct.

Rest assured, nothing could be further from the truth. If you took a show of hands to see how many here thought you and your family sound "perfect" I'd venture to guess you'd be looking at nothing at all.

I have to work. You will destroy my business by keeping me here all day :).

You will destroy your own business if you can't click the little red X in the top right hand corner. No one is keeping you here but yourself.

[Full enough quiver]

Ken, I don't doubt that you and Lori love your children, and did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time. (don't we all) like you said, the proof is in the pudding. I imagine that it wasnt easy for Lori, home all day with 4 kids, and sick and tired often as not. Spanking was a quick, easy way to get obedience, however, it may not be the best way. Gentle parenting is harder, and it takes longer. That can be difficult when you have several children, all needing something. We All have moments as parents when we take the easy way, rather than the best way.

Many people have bad experiences growing up with parents who used corporal punishment. You can see how it might upset people when Lori says to "hit harder" when spanking a child doesn't work, especially an adopted child, who may be traumatized. I'm parenting two such children myself, and there are times I'm tempted to smack them, but I have to be the adult and restrain that urge, dig deep, and find more creative ways to discipline.

Regarding abortion- I am absolutely pro choice. When I was 14, I was raped at a party. The resulting child will be 13 next month, and is the light of my life. I think abortion is terribly sad, and I wish nobody ever needed to have one. I wish every child could be born into this world loved, cherished, and wanted, the way my daughter was loved passionately from the moment I knew I was pregnant, whatever the circumstances of her conception. To that end, I believe in comprehensive sex education, easily available contraception, subsidized child care, support and encouragement for single mothers (or fathers). Unfortunately, many people, including your wife, preach against these very things. I believe abortion should be a decision made by a woman and her doctor, not by a bunch of politicians. It bothers me that people like Lori would look down on me as a single mother, (and she has preached against single mothers on her blog) because I chose life. Isn't that inconsistent with a "pro life" worldview? Again, I'm not trying to pick on you, and I do appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions. I doubt any minds will be changed, but maybe we can learn something from each other.

[GeoBQn]

On a positive note, at least Lori's blog is void of all the foul language, sex talk, racist ideology, and anti-sufferage nonsense that's so prevalent on SSM's blog. Maybe SSM will learn something about how to behave/write like a respectable Christian woman from hanging out at Always Learning.

I beg to differ on the lack of racist or anti-suffrage ideology. She's written articles about history that blatantly ignored the injustices suffered by black and Jewish women and she wrote a ghastly post on Trayvon Martin. While she hasn't written about women voting on her own blog, she has posted on others that she "would not mind at all if women weren't allowed to vote anymore."

[salex]

salex: When Lori says she wasted 23 years of marriage they were not all bad moments, just not the harmony and peace that we have now. I see those years as somewhat ordinary as compared to other couples we knew with the man not doing and being all she wanted so she complained or became moody as a way to control me into being the good husband she dreamed about. We were really two singles living together and enjoying many of the benefits of marriage, but not connecting for long periods of harmony and intimacy.

First a tiny bit of background. We met when I was a Jr. in college, with no intention of getting married any time soon, and a long time boyfriend. I met my husband, we stayed up all night talking and when we went to breakfast the next day—we began talking about marriage and what we wanted it—well, ours—to look like. 2 months later at thanksgiving we were engaged and we married the following June. Our minister told my mother we were the most compatible people he had ever done premarital counseling with in 50 years as a minister. We believe that is because we lived in different cities and spent long hours talking on the phone about all the real questions in life and what we thought about them-- and no real suprise, we were pretty much in agreement.

If one spouse has a Relater personality, the marriage almost always naturally works because the Relater will regularly give in and create the harmony. They have no string opinions or need to be right... they just want peace. Is that you or your spouse?

Um, no. Our mothers' first letters to one another when they still had not met but we had announced we were going to get married included both “warning†/ mentioning to the other that each of us (hubs and me) were quite opinionated. We call it passionate. Once, we were discussing some political point at home… and we were in agreement that what was being proposed was horrible. We looked down and noticed our little dog was cowering and slinking under the sofa. Neither of us shy about making a point in a very strong way if we want to do so, but it rarely gets to dog slinking levels, and we generally figure out what is going on immediately, move on and it does not damage our harmony. Since we don’t want to control each other, our disagreements over say, which bar stool to get really are over the bar stool, not about some unspoken issue in our marriage. So, generally, logic can prevail, or if it is strictly a matter of taste—whoever cares the most chooses. This is not the same as relater, since it varies who cares the most and over the years has probably been about equal. I completely abdicated on some tile selections once because I didn’t care at all once we had it narrowed down to about 5. A lot of things are like that but people find a way to fight about them. I can remember a disagreement (fight) that must have been in about 2003, literally about bar stools. And the thing is, it really was about stupid bar stools. And when we came to an impasse, we didn’t buy either set and regrouped—we ended up with a different style from a different store than either of the first ones later, that we both agreed on. I remember it because fights are pretty rare. I will also say that it didn’t cause us to lose harmony or intimacy for much more than the time it took to have the disagreement.

Lori and I are both Driver Go Getter types.

Without going into a full resume, I believe we would qualify for this as well. Hubs first job was at a fortune 100 company, where he got 19 promotions in 17 years. I was one of 3 people accepted in my Grad program out of 50 applicants. Since Hubs left his job (18 years ago, now) we have “eaten what we kill†ie, been more or less self employed—he is CEO of a small company that he helped found, but that now also has outside investors, so it is not “our company†per se. Is that “go getter†enough to qualify? I was hired by a previous CEO and now am a direct report to my husband, however, since I have the qualifications to hold the position, that is not an issue. And, by the way—he is my boss at work, but he is not my boss at home, so I know the difference.

We both like to be in control, and do not like being controlled.

I like to be in control of my life and my destiny, and my husband does his as well—and we are. We don’t control each other, or try to. I’m not kidding when I ask why do you want to control each other? What is the benefit of controlling the other person?

S

o conflict can occur on almost any issue, but our main issues we money, and vegies. That's rght... Lori is an organic everything fruits and vegies girl and I was a jun food junkie. Before we got married the subject came up, but after we got married she assumed she could just fed me and I would give up all sugar and junk food. Sorry, but I like my junk food, but I am a pretty good eater now with huge salads every night.

Even when I was very young , I knew I didn’t want a fixer upper for a partner. I did a bit of “missionary work†(not religious—just lifestyle, goals and expectations) on one boyfriend and saw that no matter what I did, he was never going to be what I wanted/needed, nor would I be happy with what I was with what he was. It sounds like Lori was trying to remodel you, which again makes me wonder why marry someone you want to change. Assuming a person will change into what you really wanted after marriage is like buying a pickup and trying to convert it into a corvette after you own it. You may be able to do it, but it will be costly, difficult and you wont’ end up with exactly what you wanted anyway. Meh. Go with a turnkey operation and find a person who is who they are and who you like.. so much easier. My spouse and I are both adults. I am not his mother to tell him if he can or cannot have a cookie, and the reverse. In matters of money, Pay bills and self, then any other savings (new car/ vacation) then whatever is left, however large or small can be divided into household spending and each person’s spending. If she wants to use her spending to upgrade the vitamins beyond what the household decides is adequate woohoo. If you want to blow yours on candy and gum and tacos…yippee… .

Do you know what it costs extra to eat perfectly with organic and take a boatload of vitamins?

Yes, I have a relative who probably pees out more vitamins every day than I take in a month—at a monthly cost to the couple nearly as high as their mortgage is, per his wife. But, I have another question (based on something I’ve seen).

If Lori believed that the vitamins were her best chance at not having the tumors/headaches/health issues, did she see you not wanting to pay for them as not caring about what happened to her? A close relative of mine was going alternative treatments for her cancer (Not what I’d do, but she did) and it was much much cheaper than chemo, but the insurance didn’t pay for 3x week intravenous high dose vitamin C. Once, she was explaining how much better she felt from the treatments and her husband piped up and said “but of course, we can’t pay for them forever…†She looked like he had hit her in the face, because to her (as wrong as she was) she thought the treatments were helping. She had earned her own money over the years. Before and during their marriage (she had, in fact, used her money to pay his child support on many occasions) and had more than enough to pay for literally years if not decades of this treatment, so to her, it came across as if he valued the money in her 401Ks, etc more than he valued her (in fact, he did… but that is another story) Was that what you and she were really fighting about—whether she thought you valued her more than money spent on vitamins and wholesome foods to keep her healthy?

Sports... I was a big basketball player... traveled much of the year and when not traveling had to try to get into a pick up game or league game 3-4 times a week. That was nit her idea of helping around the house or helping with the kids. None of this sounds familiar to you?

Hubs played racquet ball and golf, off and on, but his driving passion was and is his work. We had a year where his end of year timesheet indicated he had put in an average of 80 hours a week for the whole year. That same year, I was putting in 60 hours a week. (We were both on salary but it was part of our strategy) We got a weekly housekeeper, because while we wanted the apartment clean, we also wanted to spend our few off hours with each other having fun. So we did.

And, neither of us “help with the housework†because housework is part of what people do to live. It is not my housework that I am to do that he assists me with, it is ours that we do… if we don’t hire it out. If I have fewer work hours, I pick up more of the housework. If he has less going on (more rare now than it used to be.. based on our jobs) he does more. And over the years at different times we have hired housekeepers, lawn services, pool maintenance, snow removal and fluff and fold laundry service so no one was doing laundry at our house. We’ve had dry cleaners who stopped by our office to pick up and drop off our dry cleaning, shoe polish / repair and shirts and used interent grocery shopping, so I could order groceries while out of town and pick it up at a specific time. (Your story about never having ironed shirts was amazing. While we both can iron a shirt,(when I was laid off, I used liquid starch in the washer and took the damp shirts from the fridge to iron them—we know how) but it used to cost about a buck a shirt to have them washed and ironed and put on hangers at cleaners and laundries everywhere. Did neither of you ever consider that for less than 10 bucks a week you could have pressed dress shirts those whole 23 years, and have had one less thing to fight over? I didn’t know any professional guys who wore ironed shirts who didn’t send them out.

And, going back to “sportsâ€. Hubs has always said he likes to spend time with me, so many of our hobbies and interests have been shared. Over the years we’ve both been avid fly fishers, had season tickets to the ballet, done a lot of target and sporting clay shooting, hiked, been active antiquers, for both specific collectibles and furniture, gone off-roading, 4 wheeling and snowmobiling in the mountains, taken ballroom dancing classes, ski lessons, wine classes, built a wine cellar and stocked it—mostly because we like each other’s company.

RE:,helping with the kids. No kids. Couldn’t make it happen. That added its own stress and also removed stresses involved with having kids. We are both content now, but would have been content with kids as well.

Moving to a new house, moving to a new area, having a brother or sister stay with you for along period of time, the list is long as to what we could disagree upon and 99% of the time I ended up giving in, and apologizing to keep the peace.

We have never fought about moving to a new house, either rental or to buy. When we realize we need/want to move, we have coffee and make the list. What must the new home have, what would be pretty critical and what would be nice. We create a weighted spreadsheet, get our budget (either our own choice if renting or preapproved by the bank if buying) we look at the property, mark off the spreadsheet columns, ad notes (bad vibe, weird neighbor, etc) and then go over it together to discuss, usually with coffee again. Same with most major purchases (cars?) Smaller items (Appliances) don’t require a spreadsheet. Moving to a new area… we had gone for a walk and were at a park near our condo sitting on the swings talking—I was just out of grad school and he was growing weary of his job and we both knew it. We decided it was a good time to move on/away as needed. So, within the year, we had a plan in a new city and moved. We are pretty game to live nearly anywhere as long as we have a “get home now†account that we could fly back to our parents' area in an emergency. I missed my friends when I moved and at one point told my husband I was going to have to do a specific action to make some friends, which I did. If one wants to move and the other doesn’t—why fight? WHy not just talk about it and figure out what the best move is for all involved. Is there not a good reason to leave , or is one partner just afraid of change. (I often wonder how many fights are really fear, or as you said, jockeying for power over the little crap) Over the years we’ve had his sister and her husband live with us for the better part of a year, and we’ve had my sister live with us for about 8 months once and about 4 months another time Hubs and I didn’t fight, we were sounding boards and friendly shoulders when one of us felt our hosting limits were being reached. I probably came closer to arguing with the BIL or my sister than I did with my husband. We were more likely to go int our bedroom or drive in the car and say DID you hear what he said!!" and point our our obvious superiority of opinion. :lol:

Some men get good that... is your man often apologizing... if so he may be just caving in t what you want.

No.

Here is the thing. We each know what we want and where each of us is going. We have always naturally discussed our lives with each other—our hopes, dreams, plans—that whole compatibility thing. For at least 20 years, and less formally ever since we met, we have spent the first weekend of the year with lists. I make a list of things I want to do for work, for home, for myself, physically, mentally, fun… in the coming year. He has a list of his own. We go over these lists And then, together, we make a list of what we want to do as a couple—this can and does include everything from “replace the windows in the living room†to “have a party each month†or “Take salex with me more often when I travel for work.†We talk about what kind of time commitment some of the things might take, what kind of help we might want (from each other or from outside sources). As our desires change over the years, the other knows it. We may or may not go over the whole list with each other again during the year, but we can reference it when we say â€I’m going to call so and so because I wanted to do such and such†or “We need to have a party next month.â€

Funny, I have a similar conversation with a strong headed female coworker one time who told me that she and her husband never fought or really disagreed and they had an equal marriage. I challenged her to have an open and honest discussion with her husband that night and ask if he thought she had a strong personality. She called me the next day to say that indeed her husband confessed that he often thought he was caving in just to keep the peace in the home. "When Mama is not happy... no one is happy."

Yes, hysterical. Happily for us, we don’t base our life philosophy on Craft Show Homilies.

And, yes, my husband thinks I have a strong personality. However, apparently unlike you, he views that as a good thing. A few years ago, we noticed that the wife of one of our business associates, while she seemed to like us very much, gave indications that she found my husband “too much.†Too big (6’4â€) too forceful, too overtly confident. Her husband was a different type of man, though very skilled in his own right. So, Hubs toned it down when around her, because he saw she was uncomfortable and since we like these people, why not? But more than once he has told me after visiting them—“Thank God you are stronger than xzy. If I’d married someone like that my personality would have overwhelmed them and they’d have disappeared into the wallpaper!†SO, yes, he’d say I had a strong personality, and that was part of his immediate and continuing attraction to me.

I know I may not be able to convince you but we do not live unexamined lives. We have had many “open and honest’ conversations, usually in the course of the day as we discuss what we’ve seen or heard that day/week. We have seen and discussed submission from wives before—had friends as far back as the 70s who, if the child was not obeying the wife and the wife was not able to manage the situation, the husband would spank as discipline both the child and the wife, one after the other. I have heard Elizabeth Eliot say that truly submissive wives should have no preference in anything—my husband suggested if he wanted that in a wife, a blow up doll would work as well. He has no interest in this interpretation nor do I.

I am from at least the 3rd generation of egalitarian marriages in my family, on both sides. Most of my family, including my parents, are very religious, but the words obey were not in my mother’s wedding vows in the 50s, or mine in the late 70s. I don’t know if they were in either grandmother’s—from what I can tell, my parents ran their marriage like their parents had and similar to how my husband and I run ours. My husband saw his mother try to win his father over by being ever more submissive when she should have divorced in her 40s instead of waiting until her mid 60s. (and yes, she had every biblical and legal reason you can think of for a divorce, but she believed she could win him back using Lori type methods—this would be one of those “jerk†situations you say you rarely see)

I could have you call my husband, but if I run things, I’d have told him what to say, so you’ll have to trust me. Here are some factoids about our marriage. My husband talks glowingly about our marriage to anyone who will listen, whether I’m there or not. (I -- know because people bring it up to me—even business acquaintances who don’t necessarily know I’m his wife when we meet in business situations) No new person in our social circle can escape without hearing the love at first sight story from him (or sometimes me). He goes out of his way to make sure I’m with him as much as possible, because it is more fun than being alone. We enjoy one another’s company, and even when we’ve been spending a lot of time together, we never sit at a silent dinner table. Nobody at our house caves. No one apologizes to keep the peace, no one has to. We are on the same team. What is good for one of us is good for both of us. We are a mutual admiration society and have been from the night we stayed up all night talking.

And, beyond that. Since I’ve worked at a variety of jobs my whole life, and since he has as well, either of us could support ourselves without the other. Both of us might downsize, but neither would end up in poverty. Each of us can do or hire all the things it takes to live – housework, car repair, etc. Even sex is not hard to find. Divorce is not the social or religious stigma that it once was. IF we did not want to be together, there is little that could force either of us to stay.

Finally, the term “Strong Headed Woman. Do you use the term Strong Headed for men? Or is it reserved for women and children—you know, people who have no business being Strong headed? I have a brother in law who once called his sister “uppity, †a term that is historically used only for women and blacks who don’t know their place. This phrase seems a lot like that.

My husband and I disagree from time to time, work it out and move on, without a lot of life changing drama. We have not likely had a total of one lousy month based on disagreements with one another. We have had lousy things happen – family ailments, death in the family, business conflicts and cash flow issues at work which follows us home, but our marriage is an oasis for us where we are safe from the storms of the world. And it has been from day one.

However, the premise of Lori and your blog seems to be that a submissive marriage that makes one or both partners a little or a lot unhappy and requires constant work to shoehorn a person in to a role is better than a egalitarian relationship where both people are happy because of a particular interpretation of the bible.

Have fun with that.

[Koala]

I beg to differ on the lack of racist or anti-suffrage ideology. She's written articles about history that blatantly ignored the injustices suffered by black and Jewish women and she wrote a ghastly post on Trayvon Martin. While she hasn't written about women voting on her own blog, she has posted on others that she "would not mind at all if women weren't allowed to vote anymore."

I know right? Lori's blog void of sex talk and anti-suffrage nonsense :lol: :roll: Hardly.

[snuggles911]

I beg to differ on the lack of racist or anti-suffrage ideology. She's written articles about history that blatantly ignored the injustices suffered by black and Jewish women and she wrote a ghastly post on Trayvon Martin. While she hasn't written about women voting on her own blog, she has posted on others that she "would not mind at all if women weren't allowed to vote anymore."

I stand corrected. I haven't seen the posts mentioned above as I only started reading her blog recently.

[ViolaSebastian]

I beg to differ on the lack of racist or anti-suffrage ideology. She's written articles about history that blatantly ignored the injustices suffered by black and Jewish women and she wrote a ghastly post on Trayvon Martin.

I tried to go and read the post on Trayvon Martin, but it seems that it's conveniently disappeared and replaced by an apology. Would anyone be kind enough to fill me in on what she wrote?

[GeoBQn]

I tried to go and read the post on Trayvon Martin, but it seems that it's conveniently disappeared and replaced by an apology. Would anyone be kind enough to fill me in on what she wrote?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18426

[2xx1xy1JD]

A few quick questions for Ken:

1. Vegetables? At some point, don't you either joke "I can't believe our biggest fight is about VEGETABLES!" and have a laugh, or say, "thanks for your concern, but you are not my mother and what I eat is not up for discussion". Followed by another joke about how she's allowed to say "told ya so" if you ever get over 400 lbs?

2. Ditto to Salex's question - you were thinking about the money, but did Lori think that you didn't care about her health?

3. Did you guys ever sit down for a real discussion - not just an argument in the heat of the moment - over finances and your job? Basically saying I earn $X, our fixed expenses are $Y, how do we allocate the rest? If I don't travel so much and get a local job that pays $Z, will we have enough to pay for the things that you want? [i find that people fight less when they were part of the original decision.]

4. If you were traveling for half the time and playing basketball 3-4 times a week, when were you spending time with the kids?

5. Lori wrote:

"Believe me, when you have four small children under six years old, a husband who travels and is gone half the year, and your health is not good, sex is the last thing you feel like doing. Your husband will be pleased that you willingly meet his needs anyways whether you "enjoy' it or not since you have decided that he is a priority in your life and you are his help meet."

http://lorialexander.blogspot.ca/2013/0 ... chore.html

How do you feel about this?

Did you realize what she was going through at the time?

Looking back, would you have been more willing to give up the basketball and spend more time with the kids if you realized that she was too worn out to enjoy sex?

[RosyDaisy]

I'm going straight for the jugular here. Ken, I want you feel the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual pain Christian Patriarchy inflicts on women and children. I want you to experience being poor, homeless, sick, and disabled and have people constantly tell you that you are leech on the system. I want you to know what it feels like to be viewed as less than human and treated like a slave. This is what Patriarchal Fundamentalist Christianity is like. It is a blight and so as those who practice it. Now fuck off you soulless, motherfucking son of a bitch piece of shit.

[formergothardite]

formergothardite: dang it... I don't have time for all the questions and I miss some.

I don't know the answer to your question. I love my kids they are my life. You ask me the impossible, but I can tell you the thought of them in hell for eternity is so awful I don't want to think about it.

This can't just be a yes or no answer. Honestly? Do I have to choose one or the other when I can have both... this earth with them and the next? Unless I knew for sure sure that they were going to hell, I would think I would battle to get them saved all of their lives to their death bed.

Now how about you... you know for a fact your kids are going to hell.. hypothetically of course... are you sure you want them born? For sure they are with weeping and gnashing of teeth for ETERNITY! Are you sure?

I am open to all reasonable questions.. I do not claim to have all the answers... just like you all I am on a journey seeking truth, as it is the truth that sets us free... right?

and I hunt and peck when I type... so take it easy on me :).

I am still planning on a longer reply when I have the time, but if there was a hell and my kids went there then I would choose hell too. An eternity in heaven knowing that I was there with the God who sent them there and knowing that they were suffering would be hell itself. I would not have my children erased from time. Would you enjoy heaven knowing your children were in hell? Could you look at God knowing he created the system that sent them there and want to worship him?

Obviously your wife doesn't mind thinking about it or saying that she would rather your children not be born than be born and later turn into a non-believer. As someone who was raised Christian and rejected the idea of a God in my 30's I am very glad that so far my parents haven't wished me away.

[Koala]

Here is the comment Lori posted regarding women voting:

Lori AlexanderJune 15, 2013 at 3:57 PM

I completely agree although I don't think I would have the nerve to ever write about it. Clinton and Obama would not have won if women voted. Men vote more pro-life than women. Clinton and Obama were not raised by fathers, thus seem to think more with their emotions and act based upon what is right for the moment. Bush and Romney had strong fathers and think more with their reason and see the whole picture. I would not mind at all if women weren't allowed to vote anymore...

[Koala]

Since Ken asserts that Lori only advised the adoptive mom who was spanking her 4 year old daily to hit harder, I will post another example of Lori doing the exact same thing:

Reader:

I had one that would never give in to anything, regardless of punishment, spanking did nothing but make her worse, time outs where a joke, finally I picked her up and threw her under a cold shower. The other one would push a bit but one look and he would do as he was told, he has been spanked maybe 4 or 5 times in his whole life. I empathise with this mother sometimes you just have to sit in a doorway...

Lori:

A spanking will work if it is hard enough. We used a small leather strap on their behind and it hurt! There is no way a child will put up with that for long without obeying.

Reader:

Not with her, we tried hand, and although I was against it belt, wooden spoon, cane everything she would just keep going, I stopped after I thought I broke her arm... And tried other ways. The shower was the only thing that gave her pause... Of course she only acted this way at home at other peoples houses she was an angel I always had and still do get people saying how well behaved and good mannered she is.. Now she is older talking to her like an adult works the best. She is still head strong but I have also made a point of not 'saving ' her from her choices and making her deal with the consequences, like getting a D in maths when she is a perfectionist she now has to work to make it up.

Want me to find more Ken??? I'll take that as a yes.

Lori:

Vikki, in the story above, had sons that were older and they just needed to be spanked harder.

But she only gave that advice out once right???

[Hane]

Thanks, 2xx1xy1JD. The teachers I know think that the disruptive kids in their classes would benefit from stable homes, decent meals, consistent schedules, bedtime stories, parents who talk with them, and consistent discipline. Not one of them opined that hitting was the answer.

[AllisonWndrland]

Rest assured, nothing could be further from the truth. If you took a show of hands to see how many here thought you and your family sound "perfect" I'd venture to guess you'd be looking at nothing at all.

You will destroy your own business if you can't click the little red X in the top right hand corner. No one is keeping you here but yourself.

Darn that Chrome for preventing Ken from completing his work! Ken, in my version of Chrome, it's a red rectangle with a white x. You're welcome.

[Curious]

Here is the comment Lori posted regarding women voting:

uh in the 2012 election, women made up the majority of voters at 54%, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, Obama won in 2012. Lori's statement, therefore, confuses me.

[salex]

uh in the 2012 election, women made up the majority of voters at 54%, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, Obama won in 2012. Lori's statement, therefore, confuses me.

that is because she she left out "if women had not voted. This is a common statement the last couple of years .. maybe limbaugh, not sure who made itpopular. I believe this is what she meant because she says she would not if women weren't allowed to vote.

[Koala]

Here is another quote by Lori about those "perfect Alexanders" :roll:

My children definitely feared us growing up.