Lori Alexander: Valentine's Day Causes Divorce

[Childless]

His attitude is condescending at best, remarking how we must be up early to have so many questions :roll: Like he didn't just waltz in here and post a giant wall of text practically begging a response.

I am noticing that all of his responses tend to be giant, emotional walls of text....when asked an outright question he ignores it. I wish I had more time this afternoon and I'd sit here use his own quotes to contradict him. *sigh*

Not to mention the fact that he doesn't seem to understand the concept of time zones. Early for him isn't early for everyone. Some of us don't live in the U.S. Ken.

[Ken]

Thank you Full Enough Quiver. I always thought I was half decent looking until coming on this blog. You have restored some credibility for the people who snark here in my eyes.

When you say fundies you are not referring to all fundy thoughts or actions, and when I or Lori say "feminism" we are not referring to ALL feminists or all feminist thinking. Much good comes out of both camps, but carried to an extreme many good things can fall off the horse of truth.

Where we fault feminism is that now Hollywood and even a lot of women view men as second class and give lots of put downs. We are not women, we are men, but Hollywood leads the charge to devalue Dad's and men in general. Of course women are portrayed smarter, wiser and better gifted at most jobs than men are. I think many believe a world without men might be ideal... and you would find few men advocating that position.

Women in the work place. This is where Lori has her concerns. A wife and mother and career are 2/3 full time jobs if done well, yet feminism wants to have all women shoot for the moon when it comes to careers without stopping to think and wonder would I be better off postponing my career for something far more important, raising my children. The jury is no longer out on this. Many Mom's who can, are rushing home to be SAHM's and reaping the joys and benefits that come from it. Some are afraid this will set women back many years, but no, the ones who want to work can always work. But Lori's message is... you cannot have it both ways... If your children are most valuable to you, then you have to spend the time and energy it takes to raise them properly in the Lord, or leave it to the State and the Day Care to raise them and suffer the consequences.

Someone wrote on this blog, well when one of the four departs from what they taught them then they will see... or something like that. Hey, our kids can depart from everything we taught them so long as they cling to Jesus. If we did not make Jesus look fun, exciting rewarding and someone worth selling out an entire life for, we have failed as parents. We don't care if they follow us, we do care if they follow Jesus and unless something really dramatic happens, they are all locked in to their Lord and Savior.

Some of you have speculated about Alyssa, and she probably is the most non-conservative one that we have, always a free thinker, but her love for Jesus may be stronger than mine. She just stays above the fray and tries not to get involved in these types of discussions and things. She is also married to a rock solid believer who is a black and white conservative in a many ways, with some pretty hard lines against fundies, yet has lots of fundie ideals. We are all free thinkers, and certainly we do not all speak or function in Lori's fiery way of writing. Give Lori some literary license to speak her mind and reach the small targeted audience she wants to minister to. And it is not most of you... unless you are a younger Christian woman.

[ViolaSebastian]

You state that you hit your child with a leather strap. I hope you understand that this was child abuse and will not implement use of the belt with your grandchildren.

According to the federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA), physical abuse is defined by:

Physical abuse is generally defined as “any nonaccidental

physical injury to the child†and can include striking, kicking,

burning, or biting the child, or any action that results in a

physical impairment of the child."

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide ... define.pdf

Further definition from childwelfare.gov:

Physical abuse is nonaccidental physical

injury (ranging from minor bruises to severe

fractures or death) as a result of punching,

beating, kicking, biting, shaking, throwing,

stabbing, choking, hitting (with a hand,

stick, strap, or other object), burning, or

otherwise harming a child, that is inflicted

by a parent, caregiver, or other person who has responsibility for the child.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/facts ... &view=What Are the Major Types of Child Abuse and Neglect?

You and your wife should be ashamed for employing and advocating such a practice.

[Childless]

I work full time (in fact was just promoted to a management position) and yet I'm also a wife and a mother. Even though I have a full time job, I still spend all but 4 hours of my son's waking time with him. I cook him homemade, healthy meals. I go to all of his medical appointments (even when he had them every couple of weeks for 6 months while going through some medical issues). Furthermore, he doesn't attend day care or have a babysitter/nanny.

My son is happy and well adjusted, so I must be doing just fine in the mother department. I beat out 30 other people for my promotion, so I must be doing just fine in the career department. No one said working while being a mother was easy, but it can be done. It just takes hard work and dedication.

[Ken]

I have to get back to work ! Koala one last answer:

Yes, I said exactly that to Lori as a joke. We joke often about a lot of things and when Lori writes, "I would take the spanking!" of course she would because it would never be a real spanking! So you get your mind to grab a hold of something you see and put what yo think is 2+2 together and it is not even close. It was also an inside joke with SSM. They had a back door discussion once about a husband being able to spank a wife. SSM said something like she would punch him in the nose if her tried, or something like that, and so Lori was egging her on with the comment.

I like to leave such subjects open to husband and wife but would insist it be consensual, although Lori would close this door in an instant with a big "no".

I see more in gray and Lori in black and white, and if a husband and wife want to do funky things in the bedroom... that is there deal, but we are not advocating or entertaining the spanking of wives. I will add that I am an equal opportunity person, and if a husband would even ask such a thing of his wife he should lead by example first ... if you get what I mean. Let her practice it on him for a month or so and then decide... and that goes completely against any DD thinking doesn't it?

And thank you Viloa... when we spanked these laws were most likely not in place... and you need to read the statue accurately... "that results in a

physical impairment of the child." My children were in no way impaired by a swat. Nor do I believe if the outlaw drinking of wine again it is a good thing just because it shows up in a statue. Do you know how many stupid people are lawmakers now a days?

And that is great childless! I mean really, I have no issue with you with one child. My question is 2-3-4... now what. Tell me how you are feeling and doping when the second one comes along.

[Childless]

Well, as I'm 39 years old, there won't be 3 or 4 children. My husband and I decided two was a good number for our family. And, yes, a second child will add more work, but that just means I work harder to make sure both my family and career are given the time and effort they need. Anything is possible if you work hard enough for it.

[ViolaSebastian]

Here's the thing: If you struck a child (under four, no less!) with a leather strap, it's going to cause that area to become inflamed and tender to the touch. This then impairs the child's ability to sit and lie down without pain. And these are babies under FOUR that we're discussing, by your own admission. That is against the law and it is harmful to a child. (Also, a similar statue was in place while I was growing up, and I'm considerably older than your youngest.)

Yes, I'm aware that there are a great many people in the legislature that are stupid. However, I don't think a law that protects children from being hurt is.

You have to realize that you and your wife are advocating for this practice. We both know that even if you advocate a 'light' (and I personally think there is no such thing when employing the use of an implement such as a leather belt) 'swat' (really, hit) to the backside, some parents will take this overboard in their ignorance and anger and cause lasting harm to a child. I've worked for CPS in the past and have had to remove children involved in just such cases, and I assure you, each and every case is heartbreaking.

ETA: I had never been to your wife's blog, so I headed over there to check things out. I noticed that three days ago, you were asked by a poster to define the difference between a 'beating' and a 'spanking.' You answered her, in your own words, saying: "The sting should be hard enough and long enough to cause the child to think twice before doing the bad behavior again, but not so hard as to leave a mark or bruise in most cases.", "The stings should ideally not leave marks or bruises." In most cases? Only ideally, but if you happen to mess up and leave a bruise, that's just alright? In what cases do you feel it's appropriate to leave a bruise or a mark? (I'll give you a hint: It's not appropriate in ANY case.) You go on to outright advocating for the BEATING of disobedient teenage children: "Can we not agree that somewhere between time outs and stoning one’s child there can be many other things that should be done, including spankings or perhaps a beating or two as a teenager to save the child from a rebellious future, prison or death." No, we cannot all agree on that. If I found out that someone was beating their teenage child, I would be be required to report them to the proper authorities. That is not discipline, that is ASSAULT and it is ILLEGAL.

[lilith]

I have to get back to work ! Koala one last answer:

Yes, I said exactly that to Lori as a joke. We joke often about a lot of things and when Lori writes, "I would take the spanking!" of course she would because it would never be a real spanking! So you get your mind to grab a hold of something you see and put what yo think is 2+2 together and it is not even close. It was also an inside joke with SSM. They had a back door discussion once about a husband being able to spank a wife. SSM said something like she would punch him in the nose if her tried, or something like that, and so Lori was egging her on with the comment.

Bullshit. SSM has posted about her husband spanking her, with nary a mention of her punching him in the nose.

I really don't see how Lori can reconcile reading, commenting on, quoting from and endorsing SSM's blog with her identity as an older Christian women mentoring and teaching younger women in Christ. Have you seen the vile misogyny, sexual crudity, advocacy of rape and abuse and laughing discussion of "pump and dump" pick up artist culture that goes on there, especially in the comments? The comments in which SSM is very active and Lori participates in? How can Lori, as the mother of young women and as a self proclaimed christian, be ok with that?

I'm not asking that you control her Internet use or the content of her blog. But you claim that you've come here to clarify things and set the record straight.

Also, you say that you weren't aware of a lot of the discipline going on in your home while you worked. If your wife was brutalising and abusing your children, which what hitting with a leather strap is, then you, as their other parent, had a responsibility to make yourself aware and to protect them.

[Ken]

Koala and Squirrel give me a specific question I will give you a specific answer. I am managing the best I can as we both have time constraints.

And no, you will never get to Lori directly with question responses as I would not allow it and you know why. What kind of husband would I be to feed her to angry people like you. She has enough going on in her life without dealing with your long time baggage with fundies. You must know by now that much of what you hate in her writings is not about Lori but about conservative Christianity, and it might be fun to hear your story as to where you go hurt by it in your life which now creates much of your zeal to blot it out as best you can.

The inconsistencies as you may see them may be the differences in what you perceive Lori writes and what I am thinking... I am not trying to mirror Lori here, nor defend her completely. I am trying to regain my rightful place as a good person, where too many have told lies about me on this blog.

[Full enough quiver]

I'm not trying to pick on you, so I hope it doesn't come accross that way, as I try to be nice, even when snarking on conservative Christians. Lori says she would rather not have had children if they turn away from Jesus. Do you agree with her? What if one of your children became an atheist? Used birth control? Came out as homosexual? Would you truly rather they had never been born? I believe love for our children should be unconditional. Of course we have expectations, and may be disappointed or even angry if our children turn from our values, but regretting having them seems harsh. Just as I'm sure you believe that God loves us even when we sin, and will forgive us no matter what if we are truly repentant, don't we owe our children that same love?

[lilith]

Koala and Squirrel give me a specific question I will give you a specific answer. I am managing the best I can as we both have time constraints.

And no, you will never get to Lori directly with question responses as I would not allow it and you know why. What kind of husband would I be to feed her to angry people like you. She has enough going on in her life without dealing with your long time baggage with fundies. You must know by now that much of what you hate in her writings is not about Lori but about conservative Christianity, and it might be fun to hear your story as to where you go hurt by it in your life which now creates much of your zeal to blot it out as best you can.

The inconsistencies as you may see them may be the differences in what you perceive Lori writes and what I am thinking... I am not trying to mirror Lori here, nor defend her completely. I am trying to regain my rightful place as a good person, where too many have told lies about me on this blog.

So her submission is entirely voluntary and always initiated by her and you give her whatever she wants and "let" her do whatever she wants, but you wouldn't "let" her participate here? You are contradicting yourself (and your wife) all over the place.

Look Ken, I don't think you're a bad guy. I think you're a conservative, middle aged, middle class, fairly mainstream, white American Christian male, and everything you have said conforms to that and none of it surprised me.

Lori, on the other hand, is an extremist who targets often vulnerable young women and holds out a set of inflexible rules as the key to a happy Christian marriage. Many of those rules, such as beating children, staying in abusive relationships, suppressing ones own needs and desires, marital rape and more, can and do cause very real harm.

You say we aren't her target audience, and I agree. Her target audience, however, is far more likely to be hurt by what she espouses.

You ask what made us bitter about fundamentalism. I'm not - simply fascinated by religious extremists of all stripes in a post Darwin, scientifically literate world. I was raised by hippie parents who had a set of spiritual beliefs rather than a religion, although those beliefs are influenced by eastern religions. I myself don't have and religious, spiritual or supernatural beliefs. I am, however, a 33 year old mother of 3. I stayed at home with my kids full time until late last year when my youngest was 7, when I started working part time in my partner's accounting practice - only when it worked round the kid's schedules. I am what most would consider a traditional woman - I love cooking, don't dislike home making, enjoy sewing and have a strong interest in women's history and religion. I am

naturally quite submissive and most definitely drawn to more dominant men - I certainly have no objection to that dynamic, as it is the dynamic of my relationship. I do object to the idea that it is the only "proper" dynamic and that anyone should be coerced into it in any way or told that it is the only true path to happiness.

We are a very diverse group here - you should read some non Lori threads. One of my favourite threads discusses an Australian woman who has moved from conservative Christianity to a nomadic, unschooling, polyamarous alternative lifestyle, and the snark on her has only grown stronger with each ridiculous lifestyle choices she makes. We are not an anti Christian site and, despite popular perception, we don't exclusively discuss conservative Christian mummy bloggers.

Btw, it's 10am here - I am enjoying my quiet time after the kids go to school.

[dawbs]

So, it's OK for her to spew her opinions all over the internet, to receive comments, etc...but not for her to come here and address commenters. Only on her blog where she can delete and control it all.

Yep, that's the logical way to decide what to 'allow' :shifty-kitty: It wouldn't have anythign to do w/ stuff standing up to scrutiny

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Koala and Squirrel give me a specific question I will give you a specific answer. I am managing the best I can as we both have time constraints.

And no, you will never get to Lori directly with question responses as I would not allow it and you know why. What kind of husband would I be to feed her to angry people like you. She has enough going on in her life without dealing with your long time baggage with fundies. You must know by now that much of what you hate in her writings is not about Lori but about conservative Christianity, and it might be fun to hear your story as to where you go hurt by it in your life which now creates much of your zeal to blot it out as best you can.

The inconsistencies as you may see them may be the differences in what you perceive Lori writes and what I am thinking... I am not trying to mirror Lori here, nor defend her completely. I am trying to regain my rightful place as a good person, where too many have told lies about me on this blog.

Please, tell me again about your egalitarian relationship with your wife.

Oh, and I have no baggage concerning fundies. I'm one of the lucky ones here. I was raised to be whomever I wanted to be, and believe -or not believe- what I saw fit. Conservative xtianity wouldn't bother me a bit if people would stop trying to legislate my body and the civil rights of so many based on what they perceive to be true from some many-times-translated, ancient book of fairy tales. I want to take nothing away from you or anyone, other than the right to lawfully hit children.

[Ken]

lilith... I will now have to investigate. I have been in SSM's blog twice ... and mainly for one post. So it could be that Lori is associating with the wrong crowd...

It was Lori who told me what SSM had told her that in an email to her. I will investigate. SSM is into BDSM????? That si news to me. See all these thinsg we can learn engaging each other instead of fighting each other.

"Bullshit. SSM has posted about her husband spanking her, with nary a mention of her punching him in the nose." Can you give me the date or post tittle please???

As far as I know, I did not say I was not aware of the discipline going on in my home. I hate it when people put words in my words. I said it is possible that there was much more discipline going on in my home. I said maybe there was, but I do not believe that there was. And your mischaracterization of a spanking for our child as brutalizing and abusing is unforgivable. It is so far from the truth...

OK... you forced me to go downstairs and talk to Lori about this. I asked her how many times did you have to spank Alyssa, as she was our toughest, She said, I don't know, but it was very few because just the threat of a spanking was enough to get the kids to obey. Then she asked me to show her where she says she spanked often, because she usually says that she did not have to spank often because the spankings were effective.

To Viloa... yes, there is such a thing as a light swat with a strap. Use the strap we use and apply a light force you can do it so lightly that it does not even hurt. A little harder and it hurts a little but the red mark lasts 10 seconds. You are so wrong. There is zero abuse, or anything except for the sensationalism that you all give to it.

[Koala]

"If what you say is true, would you mind explaining the direct contradiction found in Lori's blog entry from Jan. 14, 2014?"

That was 20 years ago and it is possible that Lori and I have two different recollections and maybe two different ways of dealing with the issues with our children.

It seems to me that one of you is a revisionist historian as both of these comments could NOT be true. Either you frequently employed time out on the fireplace or you never employed time out and instead hit your children with a leather strap.

You say that perhaps you had different ways of dealing with the children, but Lori's comment refers to both of you.

Yes, a strap... I know this just kills you to think we could use the strap, and it stung, but it was far from abuse or brutality. One or two well placed modest swats and the sting was enough to get the child's attention and obedience. I think using one's hand is not ideal... but that is a long story.

Again you and Lori seem to contradict each other....you talk about "modest swats" while she frequently advises readers who find spanking ineffective to "hit harder" I can quote her if you wish.

(and yes, it does break my heart to think of the pair of you with your leather straps intentionally bringing pain to your children...)

Also, since you don't believe that hitting a small child with a leather strap equates to abuse or brutality, why don't you tell us what does?

If you hate the idea of strap, so be it... but why would you tell me how I am to raise my children, especially now that the proof is in and we have four outstanding citizens who all love Jesus and are highly successful at life and marriage? Could we have gotten the same without the strap... I say very possibly, and Lori would say no. She did most of the child raising and did a fabulous job, but you want me to question her approach? No way... it was too easy and efficient. You go sit at the top of the stairs and wait for your child to get out of bed each night because they do not believe that your "no" means "no." Ridiculous what we see parents doing because they do not want to spank. It is miserable for them and miserable for the child.

We have laws setting boundaries on how you can discipline your children (and some of us advocate for even stricter laws...read anti spanking laws) BECAUSE of people like your wife. Parents who believe it is totally acceptable to hit their children with a strap because it's "too easy" as you put it.

Your children turning into good citizens does not excuse your actions towards them. The ends does not necessarily justify the means.

You say you had no problems raising good kids without spanking... great! But now talk to me about the millions of parents who do not have such success and are ruining the school system for the ones who are well behaved. Ask the teachers out there and even the most liberal of them would say, "Some of these kids should be spanked" and now it is too late.

Can you please quote the statistic that allows you to speak on behalf of school teachers? I would also be interested in how you dismiss the peer reviewed studies that show long term negative effects directly stemming from spanking and the fact the the American Academy of Pediatrics advises against it.

Further, can you link me to a peer reviewed study that links problems in schools to the absence of spanking? I'll just wait while you look those up...

Lori is not getting on here and talking to you Koala, so I am the best conduit you have. Your choice.

I bet she won't. She apparently only speaks when she has the power to delete those who disagree with her/ask her questions she is unable to answer. I will stand by my original statement that I will only address things you have said or instances where you and Lori contradict each other.

Finally, your writing is very hard to follow. The quote button is the 4th one over on your left hand side. Feel free....

[lilith]

lilith... I will now have to investigate. I have been in SSM's blog twice ... and mainly for one post. So it could be that Lori is associating with the wrong crowd...

It was Lori who told me what SSM had told her that in an email to her. I will investigate. SSM is into BDSM????? That si news to me. See all these thinsg we can learn engaging each other instead of fighting each other.

"Bullshit. SSM has posted about her husband spanking her, with nary a mention of her punching him in the nose." Can you give me the date or post tittle please???

As far as I know, I did not say I was not aware of the discipline going on in my home. I hate it when people put words in my words. I said it is possible that there was much more discipline going on in my home. I said maybe there was, but I do not believe that there was. And your mischaracterization of a spanking for our child as brutalizing and abusing is unforgivable. It is so far from the truth...

OK... you forced me to go downstairs and talk to Lori about this. I asked her how many times did you have to spank Alyssa, as she was our toughest, She said, I don't know, but it was very few because just the threat of a spanking was enough to get the kids to obey. Then she asked me to show her where she says she spanked often, because she usually says that she did not have to spank often because the spankings were effective.

To Viloa... yes, there is such a thing as a light swat with a strap. Use the strap we use and apply a light force you can do it so lightly that it does not even hurt. A little harder and it hurts a little but the red mark lasts 10 seconds. You are so wrong. There is zero abuse, or anything except for the sensationalism that you all give to it.

Where I live (Australia) it is child abuse and assault to strike a child with any implement. If it leaves bruising or breaks blood vessels the parent can be charged with assault occasioning actual bodily harm and the child can and will be removed from their care.

Yet Australia does not have a juvenile crime wave. Our education standards and retention rates are higher than those in most of the US. We are not a nation populated by out of control children and frazzled mothers. What juvenile crime there is comes disproportionately from financially and socially disadvantaged communities, which isn't surprising. What may surprise you is that in my society these are the very communities who overwhelmingly use and approve if corporal punishment.

I'll try to find the citation from SSM about spanking - there are actually quite a few, but they tend to be in the comments and I have to brace myself to search in that filth. As the mother of a 10 year old girl it terrifies me that there are a substantial population of men who view women the way many of her commentators do.

[ViolaSebastian]

You wrote that you advocate for beatings (YOU used the words beating) for a disobedient teenager. That's not me misinterpreting or sensationalizing what you said, those are direct quotes from material you posted on your wife's blog.

You say 'use the strap we use.' Could you expound on this, please? What sort of strap did you use?

Also, you seem to have a real fear of CPS. If you felt your use of a leather belt to discipline your children was above the board, why this fear?

[Koala]

To Viloa... yes, there is such a thing as a light swat with a strap. Use the strap we use and apply a light force you can do it so lightly that it does not even hurt. A little harder and it hurts a little but the red mark lasts 10 seconds. You are so wrong. There is zero abuse, or anything except for the sensationalism that you all give to it.

Ken, Lori very frequently tells her readers that they must hit hard for it to be effective, even advising an adoptive mom who reported spanking every.single.day to hit harder. Are you honestly going to sit here and pretend that Lori was using "light force". Do you WANT me to go look up direct quotes from your wife's blog?

[Koala]

And no, you will never get to Lori directly with question responses as I would not allow it and you know why. What kind of husband would I be to feed her to angry people like you.

So this 55 year old grandmother that is "training younger women" needs your permission to post on a message board? I would venture you wouldn't "feed her to angry people like us" because you know full well she'd be left sputtering nonsense in an effort to answer questions she has no power to delete.

[lizziesmom]

Does Lori live in Kansas? Some nutcase there has introduced a bill to allow students to be spanked by teachers, caregivers and parents by allowing up to 10 strikes of the hand. And the bill would make it OK of those smacks leave redness or bruising.

[Koala]

These are quotes where Lori is basically advising readers to make sure they hurt their children when they hit them:

The spanking has to be more painful than the pleasure of disobedience. We used a small leather strap and it hurt!

A spanking will work if it is hard enough. We used a small leather strap on their behind and it hurt! There is no way a child will put up with that for long without obeying.

And since you weighed in so heavily on the subject of young women and their weight, I thought I'd link these two posts by Lori:

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/06/dealing-with-daughters-weight.html

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/04/children-overeating-off-limits.html

Very sad in light of the words your daughter wrote on her blog:

My biggest struggle as a dancer was my body image. I never was happy with what I saw in the mirror. Unlike artists who paint a portrait and marvel how their different paints created a beautiful painting; we are the paint. We use our bodies to create the art. Not only do we have to look at them (in class & rehearsals) but so does the audience (in performance).

In my early years of dance, my body became my obsession. I had not even hit puberty and I was worried that I was too curvy or not skinny enough. Not only did my image disorder cause insecurity, but it gave rise to a host of other issues: bad eating habits, depression, injuries, foggy thinking, sleepless nights, and more. Idolizing the way I looked never helped me. It did not improve my appearance or my performance.

bbdance.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/lets-get-real/

[Ken]

"So, it's OK for her to spew her opinions all over the internet, to receive comments, etc...but not for her to come here and address commenters. Only on her blog where she can delete and control it all."

Let's face the fact dawbs... your group .. not all, but many are a bunch of hateful spewers of evil words. My guess is that Lori would have zero issues engaging with a few of you more reasonable ones, but you will not like her answers ... but she is rock solid Biblically in most cases. So you may need to take it up with the Bible.

As for my forbidding Lori to speak with you... she still has the choice to go against my wishes and my decisions. It is hard for me to think that you all study what submission is about and can't get it. Are some really that blind to the truth?

Here is the way a Biblical marriage and submission works and it is not egalitarian, Robotkin... I choose to love my wife unconditionally and sacrifice my life for her. She chooses to submit to me and try to please me. When I fail her, she chooses to love me anyway, not because I am some great man, nor because I beat her if she does not, but because God calls her to be submissive and she wants to please Him with her life and marriage. Usually, but not always, when she acts and is submissive and loving towards her when I am not being loving first to her, it makes me feel like a jerk and I go and apologize to her and get back into relationship quickly. Usually, and not always, if Lori knows my wishes and desires, yet she chooses to not be submissive, I love her anyway and I may mention it to her. She often with stick out her hand with a shocked look on her face and say, "It will never happen again." That doesn't mean it will NEVER happen again, it just means she is trying her es to be the submissive wife God has called er to be, and I love her even more for her efforts. It shows me respect and that she loves me. And I in turn tell her, "You know you don't have to be so perfect all the time. I am not looking for a perfect wife, just a lovable one, and if I am wrong about something, don't hesitate to tell me you think I am wrong. You see things i do not see, so keeping silent is not helpful to me, unless you already know what I am thinking that I will not change my mind. On those things, only you can decide if you want to be submissive or not.

OK you get the point. My wife is my equal, or actually more important than me, and she chooses to place herself under my leadership as God tells her to do. I in turn makes sure she in now way feels second fiddle or inferior, she is my partner, but someone has to make the final decisions when we just can't agree on something. That happens now rarely to never when both sides are working towards the best of the other spouse.

BUT what Lori often addresses is what happens when one spouse doesn't do their part? What about the husband who is a jerk, or controlling or difficult or not loving the way you want to be loved. This is her ministry to show Christian wives how to win their husband back to loving them without a word." It only looks egalitarian when both spouses do their part. When one decides not to... the other still must do their part... for God ... because that is what He demands of us.

[formergothardite]

My younger sister is way more than 10 lbs overweight and isn't really in great shape but she had no problems finding dates and a husband. No wonder Ken's daughter has an eating disorder with a father who tells her that gaining a mere 10 lbs means that no man will ever be interested in her.

If my husband was blogging things about me and him using our real names and it was starting to effect my job we would have to sit down and talk about it. If he wouldn't be willing to stop writing things that apparently cast me in a horrible light and I didn't agree with I would view that as ground for leaving him. Loving and respecting someone means that once you discover that your actions are hurting the person you love, you try to change it. It wouldn't be hard for Lori to change her writing style or to put a disclaimer that you do not agree with her all of her statements. I don't follow her blog but just reading some of the threads it appears that Lori makes Ken look like a jerk who abuses her and who never uses time out but instead went straight to beating hard with a leather belt.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

It might surprise you too that my marriage is very much egalitarian in the way it functions, and I like it that way.

Here is the way a Biblical marriage and submission works and it is not egalitarian, Robotkin...

Aaand, this is why I can't take you seriously. Is your marriage egalitarian or Biblical?

It's precious that we're the hateful spewers of evil in your eyes. I can see how an insecure person such as yourself would think so, what with our wish that women could be taken seriously and easily get out of abusive relationships, such as that of Cabinet man and his wife (I don't care if she supposedly says she's happy. What the hell else is she going to say? What else can she say? What else is he going to do to "discipline" her if she doesn't toe the line??) And the wish that women can have and maintain control over their own bodies (though it may shock you to know there are some anti-choicers in the FJ crowd). And that submission wasn't a thing. And that children should not have to fear being beaten, could grow up to be what they want to be, and that they could be properly educated. Terrible stuff, all that. If the conservative god does exist, and does support these things, then I'll happily burn in hell rather than worship such a vile creature.

I know you're desperately trying to paint a picture of fluffy clouds and rainbows, but your wife's misery and hatefulness comes through in spades on her blog. A happy, well-adjusted person simply cannot come up with what she does. I'd rather jump off a cliff than try to live life the way she says is best.

[Koala]

If the conservative god does exist, and does support these things, then I'll happily burn in hell rather than worship such a vile creature.

co-sign :clap: