The Demise of VF & Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 5

[debrand]

This is part of Dana Forbes comment. I don't understand why he felt the need to apologize to Doug if Doug stole the allosaurus.

Someone was stalking Doug and his family? Was he just blowing smoke up the gullible Dana Forbe's ass ?

I heard Doug’s voice directly outside the “education†trailer. I knew I needed to meet with him. I went over to the meal tent and walked up to him, and said, “Hi, Doug.â€

He greeted me back and knew who I was right away. He turned to his family and asked them if they remembered me from before and we said “Hello†to one another.

I then asked if he and I could have some time to talk separately. He agreed and asked his secretary to give us a good half hour alone. We walked off the set and began to talk.

I felt like I needed to avoid looking like I was trying to ambush him, so I started off by apologizing for any unjustified hurt my letters, public and private, regarding his and VF’s actions on my property and what was removed from there and the film following, had caused him, his family, or ministry. I explained to him why I had written the letters. Mainly, the fact that he had refused to meet with me and others to try to work to resolve things, but instead simply taken a position that we and those with us were liars and thieves and anything we said was a lie (and gossip as well), rebuffing all well-intentioned attempts to sit down as Christian men and reason things out, even to the point of threatening letters from the VF attorney.

Doug, in turn, apologized to me, and said this was the most “manly†thing he had seen anyone do in quite some time. He also said that had he known I was on this film, he would have seen to it that I was booted off. He told me that he thought I was one of a group of vengeful stalkers that would not leave him and his family alone. He also apologized to me and said that he should have sat down at the start, but, he said it probably wouldn’t have mattered. “I tend to be loyal to people to the point of not seeing things and ignoring evidence to the contrary

Apparently, Doug likes the word, manly because this isn't the first time that I've heard it used. How could he have had Dana kicked off the set? Does he has that much pull and if he has that much pull why wasn't he told who would teach his kids? And to who is Doug being loyal? What does that even mean?

[DomWackTroll]

Well, well, well... Mere hours after we start questioning (again) whether Hero is even involved in this thing, "Former BCAer" shows up at Jen's and says: "Doug always had a hard time getting alone with Cassandra for sexy time. I think that made him a lot bolder and more reckless about getting his nookie when and where he could. I can confirm that there was sexual touching between them on the set of Alone Yet Not Alone."

Um, okay.

[Coconut Flan]

The lessons we learned from Razing Ruth. Jen is making me feel itchy. She's become way too coincidental.

[salex]

Yeah, she looks too happy for Doug to have done anything too horrible to her.

Its strange how no woman's name has been mentioned. If Doug is having an affair, why aren't any of the people who are mad at him also mad at her and talking about her? You would think at least some of the closest people to him would name who she is. Why are they so secretive about the specifics of who was involved.

I think we can pop back to the idea it could ahve been an intern.... or two. Which could have tarred the whole group of them with a tainted brush of scandal, making Bradrick go into his cave to link his wounds.

ANd I"m pretty sure money has to be involved.... to have shut the whole thing down so fast, money probably had to have been paid out or stolen or something.

[NurseNell]

No. It doesn't matter how angry you are, don't attack someone for having sex. That should be a given. Even if they lie, cheat and break your heart. No. Just no. This story doesn't sound real to me, anyway. TW Eston covered his tracks by adding that the congregation refused to cooperate with the police so there won't be a police report.

Not premeditated but if you walk in on your spouse having sex with someone yes, in a moment of passion you could hurt or kill one or both of them. It's not because of the sex, it's because of the total betrayal involved.

The story doesn't sound real to me either.

[RosyDaisy]

This is more comical than all of the televangelists scandals of the 80's. Jen, just stop. It's time to bury that hatchet.

[ILoveJellybeans]

If it isn't that Doug is sleeping with Hero, and Jen made it up, the question is why is she pushing so much for this mystery woman to be Hero? Is she just a random woman who Jen thinks is close enough to Doug for it to be believable, or does she just not like her and want to ruin her life by making everyone think she has given away pieces of her heart, which for a fundie, means you are ruined for life and no man would ever want you.

She really makes no attempt to conceal her identity-even though Jen made her up a name to use instead of her real one, she has given away pretty much everything about her and even posted a photo of her, to the point where anyone with a brain could work out who she was.

Whether she was involved or not, does Jen care that little that she is willing to throw some poor innocent woman under the bus just to get back at Doug. Although then again, shes made pretty sure that everyone thinks that the other woman she wrote a story about is a complete slut. She really didn't need to name the VF "cougar".

[ShesCrafty]

Whether she was involved or not, does Jen care that little that she is willing to throw some poor innocent woman under the bus just to get back at Doug.

I think Jen is completely willing to do just that. Her main purpose in life right now seems to be to drag Dougie down anyway possible and couldn't care less who she has to knock down to do it. Honestly, at this point, I think I would almost believe the Tool himself over Jen and "Eston".

[Cleopatra7]

I think we can pop back to the idea it could ahve been an intern.... or two. Which could have tarred the whole group of them with a tainted brush of scandal, making Bradrick go into his cave to link his wounds.

ANd I"m pretty sure money has to be involved.... to have shut the whole thing down so fast, money probably had to have been paid out or stolen or something.

Bradrick's cryptic posts make it clear that there is/was an injured third-party, someone that he failed to protect (i.e., the hang-wringing about the "women and children first" idea). This could be interpreted many ways, but if an abortion happened under his watch, that would explain it all. Obviously, I don't know if this is what really happened or not, but I don't even think financial shennanigins would cause VF to implode like it did.

[DomWackTroll]

Bradrick's cryptic posts make it clear that there is/was an injured third-party, someone that he failed to protect (i.e., the hang-wringing about the "women and children first" idea). This could be interpreted many ways, but if an abortion happened under his watch, that would explain it all. Obviously, I don't know if this is what really happened or not, but I don't even think financial shennanigins would cause VF to implode like it did.

I totally agree. People respond to financial scandals with something like this: "Eh, he's another crook. Lock 'im up."

Not with this: "I could never imagine the horror! I didn't even KNOW the person standing in front of me! I'll be taking a long sabbatical, as I'm totally devastated!" Also, their mommies don't come on their Facebook pages and say stuff like "This young man needs to heal!"

I'm not saying there's no financial stuff going on. In fact, I believe there is and always has been. But that's not the whole story. No way.

[congusto]

I'm not saying there's no financial stuff going on. In fact, I believe there is and always has been. But that's not the whole story. No way.

THIS. A thousand times this. The reaction has been very strange. There's more going on here, IMO.

[marmalade]

If it isn't that Doug is sleeping with Hero, and Jen made it up, the question is why is she pushing so much for this mystery woman to be Hero? Is she just a random woman who Jen thinks is close enough to Doug for it to be believable, or does she just not like her and want to ruin her life by making everyone think she has given away pieces of her heart, which for a fundie, means you are ruined for life and no man would ever want you.

She really makes no attempt to conceal her identity-even though Jen made her up a name to use instead of her real one, she has given away pretty much everything about her and even posted a photo of her, to the point where anyone with a brain could work out who she was.

Whether she was involved or not, does Jen care that little that she is willing to throw some poor innocent woman under the bus just to get back at Doug. Although then again, shes made pretty sure that everyone thinks that the other woman she wrote a story about is a complete slut. She really didn't need to name the VF "cougar".

I can see Jen wanting the female to be "Hero" because that particular person was besties with her daughter, then turned her back when Dougie chucked Jen to the curb. Given her dog who won't let go of the bone with Dougie the Tool, I can see her exacting her pound of flesh with Hero for the emotional distress her daughter endured.

[Arete]

^ What marmalade said. Jen has a big personal grudge against Hero, and it involves her daughter. You never want to mess with someone like Jen when they feel their child has been scorned.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That totally makes sense.

I wonder if Hero or her family and friends are aware that she has been implicated as the woman who Doug slept with

[Palimpsest]

^ What marmalade said. Jen has a big personal grudge against Hero, and it involves her daughter. You never want to mess with someone like Jen when they feel their child has been scorned.

Yes indeed. It is also possible that there was indeed some jealous whispering at BCA about Hero's closeness to the Phillips family and favored status with Doug. When Doug confessed to the long-term affair, Jen connected the wrong dots and jumped to the conclusion that Hero was the most likely person -- because of that grudge.

Actually, Hero's real name as the possible "affairee" was mentioned here before Jen started pointing her finger at her. She is noticable because of her long-term work with the family and frequent appearances in VF propaganda marketing materials.

My theory only: Jen, flushed with the success of her ploy with "outing" Hero and not realising she had been played, paid off another score by pointing at Mrs R. I still think that cougar story was ridiculous and irrelevant to the scandal. It made no sense to bring her up, especially as Jen/TW couldn't claim their "sources" had found Mrs R in bed with DP. They had to rely on ex-BCAers and WFF jumping on the band wagon to trash Mrs R.

I still can't figure out whether WFF was a sock puppet of Jen and TW's, a VF plant to discredit them, or just a Razing Ruth type desperate for attention. Not that it matters really.

[Palimpsest]

That totally makes sense.

I wonder if Hero or her family and friends are aware that she has been implicated as the woman who Doug slept with

I'm sure they do. At least, I'm sure quite a few of the Interns have read at JensGems. They don't believe Jen and are not ostracizing Hero. On the contrary, she is still fully part of the crowd and a major figure in weddings. They are probably not commenting publically because Jen is beneath their notice and to challenge her and TW would lend credibility to the rumor.

As he was part of the in crowd of VF Interns, I checked Nolan Manteufel's FB to see whether he had anything else to say about the affair. Nope. He is still perserverating on Scott Brown - but it is Scott's resemblance to Doug in serving Mammon and not preaching the gospel (until after Nolan called him out on the gospel part!) that is irking him.

From his public FB:

January 19 near San Antonio, TX · Edited.

Scott Brown's been plastering "gospel" all over his website. In December, "gospel" was secondary to "thanksgiving" and "prayer".

At the NCFIC, https://ncfic.org/, "Gospel" is the buzzword of the month.

nolan has a saying about buzzwords. "Buzzwords obscure meaning, or the lack thereof."

Someone should transcribe this message and count how many times Scott says "gospel".

For a man that talks so much about Gospel, he says very little of Gospel.

As men, we do what we want. Scott must not want to preach a saving knowledge of Christ. If he did, he would.

If Scott isn't able to preach Christ, the men around him should exert their influence to stop him. Titus 1.

These are perilous times, 2 Timothy 3. The job requires men who will endure. If you're weak, bewitched or powerless: go away.

Remember Doug Phillips.

In the comments Nolan asks for a definition of cults - so I pretty sure he has been reading at JensGems. Also, his sister is married to Mrs R's son so he has a major axe to grind with Jen.

I was about to snark on Nolan referring to himself in the 3rd person (I hate that) and the grandiosity of this statement (my bolding):

97 words telling Peter to go away.

A prophesy.

A warning of wolves.

A quote of Scott Brown testifying of his work.

682 words telling Doug to go away.

A warning about NCFIC being mammon focused.

...if my reputation was destroyed to highlight these things... it was a reputation well spent.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

Normally I'd snark happily about a college kid talking about "destroying his reputation" by calling out Tools like Phillips and Brown on FB. Such hyperbole! But in Nolan's case I can't. Nolan is getting some strong criticism from other former interns and friends. I hope he has plenty of non-VF friends in college to help him through this with the Bible-speak that he understands.

[MamaJunebug]

Who is the Peter Who has been told to go away? And why is Nolan counting words??

It takes just a little thinking to consider the real possibility that Doug and a male were caught together.

Several of the interns have yet to marry, it would be sure damnation from the VF crowd if Doug had confessed to a homosexual affair, but all this speculating distracts us from the most important point: follow the money.

I'm afraid it's very unlikely that Doug will have any kind of justice served upon him that we will see.

Thus – and this is only me talking about me – my energies are going to be better spent on looking at the heirs to Doug's throne: Brown; the heavyset guy who reads Rushdoony in his wheelchair – can't think of his name; Voddie; Geoff; the team behind AYNA, etc.

Eternal vigilance!--as the wizard said.

Edited because voice recognition thought "that Doug" was "the dog" and a couple other not-quite-as-amusing mistakes!! :D

[Palimpsest]

Who is the Peter Who has been told to go away? And why is Nolan counting words??

It takes just a little thinking to consider the real possibility that Doug and a male were caught together.

Several of the interns have yet to marry, it would be sure damnation from the VF crowd if Doug had confessed to a homosexual affair, but all this speculating distracts us from the most important point: follow the money.

I'm afraid it's very unlikely that Doug will have any kind of justice served upon him that we will see.

Thus – and this is only me talking about me – my energies are going to be better spent on looking at the heirs to Doug's throne: Brown; the heavyset guy who reads Rushdoony in his wheelchair – can't think of his name; Voddie; Geoff; the team behind AYNA, etc.

Eternal vigilance!--as the wizard said.

Edited because voice recognition thought "that Doug" was "the dog" and a couple other not-quite-as-amusing mistakes!! :D

Peter Bradrick. Massive spat with Bradrick family members and VF true believers on Nolan's FB after Nolan called him a coward. See posts earlier in the thread.

No idea why Nolan is counting words!

We may not ever know what the scandal is, but I agree on following the money. It seems to me that some of that info is slowly trickling out.

[Letgo]

Who is the Peter Who has been told to go away? And why is Nolan counting words??

I wonder if he is counting to illustrate how often and how much Scott is saying about those subjects-yet has little to say about the Gospel. There are counts for how many times Jesus mentions certain things in the Bible, such as love, hell, and money, and I think this is what Nolan is doing.

While the victim in Doug's "inappropriate relationship" may have been misidentified, from what I've read on FB, Jen's site, spiritual sounding board, and blogs, I do think she was young. And I think there has to be more to the story than this ONE scandal. I still can't figure out why the young woman has not been named and ripped to pieces. Nor has Beall been blamed for being insufficiently submissive. The daughters have not been criticized for failure to "serve" Daddy well enough. Why? What on earth did he do that got all the usual *blamees* off the hook?

[DomWackTroll]

I wonder if he is counting to illustrate how often and how much Scott is saying about those subjects-yet has little to say about the Gospel. There are counts for how many times Jesus mentions certain things in the Bible, such as love, hell, and money, and I think this is what Nolan is doing.

While the victim in Doug's "inappropriate relationship" may have been misidentified, from what I've read on FB, Jen's site, spiritual sounding board, and blogs, I do think she was young. And I think there has to be more to the story than this ONE scandal. I still can't figure out why the young woman has not been named and ripped to pieces. Nor has Beall been blamed for being insufficiently submissive. The daughters have not been criticized for failure to "serve" Daddy well enough. Why? What on earth did he do that got all the usual *blamees* off the hook?

What, indeed? We've seen this type of scandal many times, and there's always at least one woman to blame. When Ted Haggard was caught with a male "massage therapist," Mark Driscoll couldn't wait to jump in and explain his closeted gayness by blaming Mrs. Haggard for "letting herself go." When Jim Bakker fell, it was because Jessica Hahn got him all liquored up and Tammy Faye wasn't paying attention to anything but shopping. Jimmy Swaggart-- well, they were whores, so what do you expect?

This scandal has (so far) broken a pattern that has never been broken before. And it's not because VFers are "better Christians."

[Palimpsest]

I wonder if he is counting to illustrate how often and how much Scott is saying about those subjects-yet has little to say about the Gospel. There are counts for how many times Jesus mentions certain things in the Bible, such as love, hell, and money, and I think this is what Nolan is doing.

While the victim in Doug's "inappropriate relationship" may have been misidentified, from what I've read on FB, Jen's site, spiritual sounding board, and blogs, I do think she was young. And I think there has to be more to the story than this ONE scandal. I still can't figure out why the young woman has not been named and ripped to pieces. Nor has Beall been blamed for being insufficiently submissive. The daughters have not been criticized for failure to "serve" Daddy well enough. Why? What on earth did he do that got all the usual *blamees* off the hook?

To the first paragraph - Nolan is counting his own words of reproof for Bradrick, Doug and Scott in his FB posts, not Scott Brown's references to the gospel. Why his own word count is important is a mystery. Unless he is counting how few words it takes to "lose your reputation" in VF circles.

To the second paragraph - the lack of shaming of the victim(s) of either gender, or any age, or Beall and the daughters is the weirdest thing about this scandal. So far away from the usual Fundie behavior.

[Cleopatra7]

To the first paragraph - Nolan is counting his own words of reproof for Bradrick, Doug and Scott in his FB posts, not Scott Brown's references to the gospel. Why his own word count is important is a mystery. Unless he is counting how few words it takes to "lose your reputation" in VF circles.

To the second paragraph - the lack of shaming of the victim(s) of either gender, or any age, or Beall and the daughters is the weirdest thing about this scandal. So far away from the usual Fundie behavior.

I think whatever the scandal is/was probably doesn't just involve Doug Phillips is a tool, but probably most of his entourage and the other heavy hitters in the patriarchy movement. Scott Brown, et. al. probably can't divulge too much about what happened without making themselves look bad.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Maybe theyre not shaming the other woman because there isn't one, but actually Hazardous Journeys is a code word for "costumed gay orgy" and they don't want to say so or everyone will shame them for getting involved in it too.

[nokidsmom]

Maybe theyre not shaming the other woman because there isn't one, but actually Hazardous Journeys is a code word for "costumed gay orgy" and they don't want to say so or everyone will shame them for getting involved in it too.

Wouldn't be surprised at all about Hazardous Journeys.

It's also possible that there was a woman (or women) involved but she is outside of VF. I have no doubt that there were busybodies concerned members who searched extensively to uncover who the person is and maybe they are coming up with nothing because they are looking within their ranks and this person isn't. And might have been long gone already. Dougie would have the means to meet and interact with non-VF women in the course of his involvement with VF events.

[AnnaSofia]

Re: Non VF women

It makes me think of a scene in Mad Men, where Joan (the office manager) talks about Don (ad exec, and the show's protagonist) being the only guy in the office who doesn't hit on her. She says something to the effect of "He's good looking enough to get it outside the office, most of these guys can't", meaning they were trading on the little power they had, in the one place they had it.

I really think the VF world was Dougie's best chance. Outside that narrow sphere of influence, the toolishness is just too obvious.