Vision Forum Now Closing, Doug Phillips Still a Tool-Part 2

[Closed Womb]

Why does everyone keep expecting Petey Bradrick to 'make a statement' about this mess? He doesn't have a blog, a church, an open FB page, or any platform where he regularly gives his opinion on current topics. BRADRICK! is for responding to natural disasters; Dougie isn't an earthquake or tornado. How and why on earth would Peter make any public comment?

That's a good point. I hadn't commented on it, but I was certainly over here assuming that Bradrick had some kind of online presence. It's surprising that he doesn't, if only because so many of his contemporaries enjoy the public eye.

[MamaJunebug]

While I am glad that it appears the walls are truly tumbling down around this cult I worry about the families who bought it. Many of these people have raised their children under the "protection" of Dougie and his teachings. Suddenly it all comes crashing down - its like Truman figuring out that his world isnt real. How does a family of eleventy carry on with their manly toys and girly ribbons dreaming of hazardous journeys when the very premise of strength and protection is proven to be as false as *cough* evolution?

I think the majority of these families will migrate to Gothard as their savior, but perhaps a few will see the same cars circling the block every day at 9:07 AM and peek behind the curtain.

Indeed! Are the intrepid explorers in Tibet home by now? I get confuzzled at the variety and sheer number of reports we USED TO get from VF about their manly exploits.

[MamaJunebug]

Mary C Doates wrote:

I expect most VF members will re-group under one or more of the people involved in running it now, or people involved with VF in the past, sort of like reorganizing and re-opening a business that filed for bankruptcy (or, in this instance, moral bankruptcy). Didn't there used to be smaller home churches, similar to BCA, that were loosely affiliated with VF? Perhaps VF members will turn to them. I don't really see a stampede of folks affiliating themselves with Gothard--I don't think he appeals to the same demographic.

I think listening to what the different VF-related personalities have to say about the current situation will probably provide clues as to which of them is angling to be the next Doug Phillips (who is a tool), only without the costumes. I can see Scott Brown being a candidate, as he's put lots and lots of distance between himself and Doug (Phillips who is a tool). As far as I know, Botkin has said nothing. Anyone have any likely candidates?

Yes, and along with the FJian who likened Doug's followers and potential successors to "a hydra" - I realize that this doesn't mean the end of this flavor of patriarchy, it means there may well be hundreds of little offshoots. And who knows which one will take root?

Eternal vigilance!

[thoughtful]

Indeed! Are the intrepid explorers in Tibet home by now? I get confuzzled at the variety and sheer number of reports we USED TO get from VF about their manly exploits.

I keep thinking of them -- hope they didn't get stranded at the top of a mountain! :shock:

[MamaJunebug]

Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board (see 11:17 am today at spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/11/the-board-of-vision-forum-ministries-announces-the-closing-of-vision-forum-ministries/#comments) is hinting that she has information that backs up the reports on TWW. In part:

"Because of the sensitivity of this issue, I have not shared what information has been passed along to me, but if you read between the lines of Dee’s comments, I have had the same reports sent to me as well...When you get the same account repeated a number of times, from a number of sources, with no varying from the story, it seems to indicate that the story is no longer just a story, but something credible."

Her full comment is worth reading if you have a moment, in order to get the full context of the discussion.

This makes me very sad and very angry.

Thank you muchly for the link. Well worth the reading.

Julie Ann quotes from the VF/VF cabal canon:

In their words [from their website]: “In conscious opposition to feminism, egalitarianism, and the humanistic philosophies of the present time, the church should proclaim the Gospel centered doctrine of biblical patriarchy as an essential element of God’s ordained pattern for human relationships and institutions.†NO ONE at VF is repenting of it. “…we believe as strongly as ever in the message of the ministry to the Christian family.â€

The bolded made me grind one tooth right out of my head.* To reiterate why I began my puny campaign against patriarchialism in Christian organizations -- the Gospel is, only and simply, the good news that Jesus gives us salvation. Gospel-centered doctrines, therefore, can involve doctrines that revolve around the person and work of Jesus, or the humanity and deity of Jesus, or the theology that Jesus spoke or that His apostles wrote about His salvific work.

Jesus *is* the Gospel. His life, death, resurrection *is* the Gospel.

Our measly attempts at piety are our response to the Gospel and the Law, but they are not the Gospel! Further, doctrines that cover how we should live are doctrines of the Law of God. A Law no one, except Jesus, could ever keep perfectly.

They mess things up *so* badly, no wonder folks look at Christianity as a confused and confusing theology.

Doug may be closer to down and out than ever, but again, anybody who wants to fight the misuses of the Bible and the Gospel (the real Gospel, not Dougie's "gospel") will still have her/his work cut out for him. People like Doug have misused and abused real Christianity for so long, it's 'a never-ending battle to get it right.

OK, that got a little off-topic but it's really the root of everything wrong with the guy. He thinks he's the good news, and as has been amply shown, he's very bad news for a whole lot of people - his 8 kids, to begin with. :doh:

[marmalade]

So this popped up on Radar this morning.

I wonder when the Duggars will say something

The Duggars will say nothing, at least publicly. They can't bite the mainstream hand that feeds them, nor can they offend the uber-fundie VFers who have teevees and worship the Duggars. I AM curious what's going on with Ben and HIS family though, given that THEY are Dougie disciples.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Did this not get posted? It made Radar Online

radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/11/duggars-jim-bob-michelle-scandal-conservative-religious-organization-closing-leaders-serious-sins-cheating-vision-forum-ministries-doug-phillips/

[LucySnowe]

I read the statement "If it gets out, it will throw some doubt on the statement that women should stay at home where they will be safe as opposed to going to college" as meaning that the woman being discussed is of college age, but has stayed at home instead - where, ironically, instead of being protected and safe, she has been subjected to the attentions of Doug.

I cannot imagine someone being so blase if underage children were involved. Or maybe I just want to believe that no one would be. But I think this statement comes from a source critical of VF? (It's all becoming a tool-shaped blur....)

[ophelia]

can someone give me the latest news in a nutshell. I have to write a veeery boring but important paper for my class and I need some snark to keep going.. just don't have the time to read through the whole thread.

[Sola]

Doug got caught with his dick where it shouldn't be, although he 'didn't have sexual relations with that woman' - yeah right. He's very, very sorry and he admits he isn't the messiah, just a very naughty boy. He's stepped down from VF ministries, but not the cash cow which is VF Inc. VFM has subsequently shut the doors so we'll have no more merry jaunts with manly men in tights. His associates have either been gleefully gloating, supporting him, silent or throwing him under the bus. Several fundie watch orgs are hinting at long affairs - 6 years - with either multiple women or under age girls.

Oh and he's a tool.

[Artemis]

Doug Phillips resigned as church elder in February. On Halloween, or thereabouts he resigned as president of VF ministries, citing 'an inappropriately romantic and affectionate' 6 year long relationship with a woman whom he did not, however, 'know biblically'.

This Monday, Vision Forum Minstries was closed down, with a statement citing 'serious sins' by Doug Phillips that made it untenable as an entity. Vision Forum Inc, which sells the toys and homeschooling stuff, still exists, and Doug has not stepped down from that.

Some hints on some website are indicating that the relationship may have been one where the female participant was not in a position, either because of age or undue influence/status imbalance to give full informed consent. Various speculation is current about the identity of his victim: nothing is confirmed. Whatever it is, people on here with fundie friends are saying that they have gone from speculating to tight-lipped silence, which would argue very serious misdemeanour indeed.

Some of Doug's former friends - Baucham, the Botkins - have been quietly distancing themselves from him for a while. His former close associate, Scott Brown, threw him under the bus recently in a comprehensively denunciatory sermon that referenced vanity, and spiritual arrogance.

There is speculation that his issues are financial as well as amatory, and that they may not,in fact, be sins, so much as crimes.

We await the (inevitable) developments.

[Mary C Doates]

Doug Phillips resigned as church elder in February. On Halloween, or thereabouts he resigned as president of VF ministries, citing 'an inappropriately romantic and affectionate' 6 year long relationship with a woman whom he did not, however, 'know biblically'.

This Monday, Vision Forum Minstries was closed down, with a statement citing 'serious sins' by Doug Phillips that made it untenable as an entity. Vision Forum Inc, which sells the toys and homeschooling stuff, still exists, and Doug has not stepped down from that.

Some hints on some website are indicating that the relationship may have been one where the female participant was not in a position, either because of age or undue influence/status imbalance to give full informed consent. Various speculation is current about the identity of his victim: nothing is confirmed. Whatever it is, people on here with fundie friends are saying that they have gone from speculating to tight-lipped silence, which would argue very serious misdemeanour indeed.

Some of Doug's former friends - Baucham, the Botkins - have been quietly distancing themselves from him for a while. His former close associate, Scott Brown, threw him under the bus recently in a comprehensively denunciatory sermon that referenced vanity, and spiritual arrogance.

There is speculation that his issues are financial as well as amatory, and that they may not,in fact, be sins, so much as crimes.

We await the (inevitable) developments.

Excellent summary!

[apple1]

Thank you muchly for the link. Well worth the reading.

Julie Ann quotes from the VF/VF cabal canon:

The bolded made me grind one tooth right out of my head.* To reiterate why I began my puny campaign against patriarchialism in Christian organizations -- the Gospel is, only and simply, the good news that Jesus gives us salvation. Gospel-centered doctrines, therefore, can involve doctrines that revolve around the person and work of Jesus, or the humanity and deity of Jesus, or the theology that Jesus spoke or that His apostles wrote about His salvific work.

Jesus *is* the Gospel. His life, death, resurrection *is* the Gospel.

Our measly attempts at piety are our response to the Gospel and the Law, but they are not the Gospel! Further, doctrines that cover how we should live are doctrines of the Law of God. A Law no one, except Jesus, could ever keep perfectly.

They mess things up *so* badly, no wonder folks look at Christianity as a confused and confusing theology.

Doug may be closer to down and out than ever, but again, anybody who wants to fight the misuses of the Bible and the Gospel (the real Gospel, not Dougie's "gospel") will still have her/his work cut out for him. People like Doug have misused and abused real Christianity for so long, it's 'a never-ending battle to get it right.

OK, that got a little off-topic but it's really the root of everything wrong with the guy. He thinks he's the good news, and as has been amply shown, he's very bad news for a whole lot of people - his 8 kids, to begin with. :doh:

Nailed it.

[lizzielouwho]

That's a good point. I hadn't commented on it, but I was certainly over here assuming that Bradrick had some kind of online presence. It's surprising that he doesn't, if only because so many of his contemporaries enjoy the public eye.

This is only speculation. But what if Peter was the one who outed Doug in the first place. He is one of the few people close enough to Doug to have known if Doug was up to something. He was a young, impressionable, naive, and sheltered young man when he began his internship with a man he was supposed to worship. But now he is a married man with children of his own. He may have looked at his own little ones a realize how awful what Doug was doing is and would not want his own daughter to be in the same position. Maybe he confessed Doug's sin to his Father in Law and it blew up from there. Could explain why Scott Brown is throwing Doug under the bus.

I've also wondered if Doug didn't take advantage of a vulnerable young Peter.

[WonderingInWA]

That's a good point. I hadn't commented on it, but I was certainly over here assuming that Bradrick had some kind of online presence. It's surprising that he doesn't, if only because so many of his contemporaries enjoy the public eye.

Petey has had an online presence. He's fairly outspoken on FB and over the years has showcased himself as a overly virile and arrogant ass. And he's been Dougie's golden child, and Scott's for that matter, too. You're right, he doesn't blog, but there is plenty of his blather out there on the internet if you know how to find it. He pickets abortion clinics, he goes on manly romps, he talks the patriarchal talk and walks the walk. He does push-ups in a tuxedo at weddings to demonstrate his manliness (as if having 5 kids in 5 years wasn't enough). That kind of thing.

[Odd1Out]

Should not read this thread late at night. Dreamt I ( a younger version of me) was being kept by Doug in his compound. There were others there but I felt trapped. So there was a large gathering happening and I was planning my escape because I knew he would be distracted by everyone. In the mean time, I was trying to ' keep sweet' and play along so he didn't suspect anything. Ugh. Don't want to dream that again.

[MrsYoungie]

Considering how adamant Doug (Philips is a tool) was about Jen confessing everything and holding nothing back - shouldn't he be confessing completely? Not just some vague "didn't know her in a biblical sense" bullshit.

Those are his rules, not ours.

[Queen Of Hearts]

I have hit refresh on this thread so many times in the past two days that I can't keep track... I keep hoping some of this insider information will come out!!!

I have a question about Doug (tool) Phillip's family. The Tool's first two children are sons, right? Over 18? What exactly do these boys do? Are they married? Work at VF? I'm just wondering how all of this is going to impact them.

Doug Phillips is a tool!

[Talitha Cumi]

(the two oldest boys can go to work or join the military they praise so highly)

I would pay cash money to see Joshua in the army. What a rude awakening that would be. :D

[uber frau]

Considering how adamant Doug (Philips is a tool) was about Jen confessing everything and holding nothing back - shouldn't he be confessing completely? Not just some vague "didn't know her in a biblical sense" bullshit.

Those are his rules, not ours.

No, they are his rules for the plebs. His rules for himself are totally different. Because Doug Phillips is a super speshul snoflake tool.

[Talitha Cumi]

I keep thinking of them -- hope they didn't get stranded at the top of a mountain! :shock:

Hey, that reminds me-- does this mean the Hazardous Journey to shoot a polar bear is off? :pray:

[ThisOlGirl]

Didn't Doug Phillips is a tool make J Teef Phillips "president" of some VF offshoot company? I guess it was so he'd have something to put on a resume besides "Dressing up and taking vacations with mom and dad".

[hoipolloi]

I have a question about Doug (tool) Phillip's family. The Tool's first two children are sons, right? Over 18? What exactly do these boys do? Are they married? Work at VF? I'm just wondering how all of this is going to impact them.

Doug Phillips is a tool!

(Emphasis added)

Whatever Daddy tells them to do. Seriously. That's it.

Like Petey Bradrick, Joshua & Justice have no formal education. They have spent their childhoods & adolescence dancing attendance on Doug Phillips Is A Tool, going on trips, and playing with Dougie's expensive toys (e.g., the top-of-the-line Canon cameras with all the L lenses). They have been given "credit" for producing videos of the various manly romps hazardous journeys, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that the interns actually did the video-editing work for J & J.

ETA: Joshua had a blog devoted to one of the resurrected 19th century white supremacist authors VF peddles (Ballantyne, IIRC), but it got handed off to Justin Turley's younger brother within a few months so Joshua could do more important things.

I pity any young woman who gets entangled with these two - their sense of entitlement & overall self-righteousness must be off the charts.

[mnwnwmwmn]

Vision Forum vs. Scientology. A comparative study of cult culture.

VF: Religion based on mystical figures doing something bad that screwed everything up long long ago.

Scientology: Religion based on mystical figures doing something bad that screwed everything up long long ago.

VF: Led with an iron fist by a charismatic narcissist with a Napoleon complex.

Scientology: Led with an iron fist by a charismatic narcissist with a Napoleon complex.

VF: The Robin to the leaders Batman is a sycophantic true believer with delusions of grandeur who is so focused on demonstrating his manly virility that he ends up coming off as a damn tool. They're just a little to close for such manly men, so rumors of homosexuality abound. (Bradrick)

Scientology: The Robin to the leaders Batman is a sycophantic true believer with delusions of grandeur who is so focused on demonstrating his manly virility that he ends up coming off as a damn tool. They're just a little to close for such manly men, so rumors of homosexuality abound. (Cruise)

VF: Constant pressure for its followers to fork over all of their money to obtain more books, DVD's, and conference tickets in order to remain orthodox. Patrons without deep pockets are ignored. Those with deep pockets are paraded around as the example that all should aspire to.

Scientology: Constant pressure for its followers to fork over all of their money to obtain more books, DVD's, and gala tickets in order to remain orthodox. Patrons without deep pockets are ignored. Those with deep pockets are paraded around as the example that all should aspire to.

VF: Those who dare proclaim that the emperor has no clothes are met with character assassinations, disconnection from all of their friends within the church, and constant threats of litigation. Your sins will be publicly exposed in order to humiliate you and serve as examples to those within the congregation just in case they get any ideas of blowing the cult.

Scientology: Those who dare proclaim that the emperor has no clothes are met with character assassinations, disconnection from all of their friends within the church, and constant threats of litigation. Your sins will be publicly exposed in order to humiliate you and serve as examples to those within the congregation just in case they get any ideas of blowing the cult.

[Savoring Samsara]

The way I took that comment was it was a college age SAHD who was supposed to be safer at home but instead ended up being preyed on and taken advantage of by Doug. My opinion is that the church found out about the affair nine months ago, Doug stepped down and everyone worked to try and cover it up and make it go away. But then something else has come out and whatever the serious sins are, that they cannot cover it up or make it go away. They are just going to try and delay the revealing of these sins for as long as possible. Maybe through the Christmas season so that VFI can at least make some money before they have to close.

I hope it isn't one of his children or a minor.

I read the same thing into it - perhaps even that it was someone whose family had spoken out in support of the SAHD movement. I also hope it's not a Phillips family member or a minor. What a terrible thing to have to hope, though.

ETA: sorry to duplicate previous posts, should have read to the end before posting...