Absolute Insanity: The Atheist Collins Family

[mango_fandango]

I was reading through the Saturday Guardian (the Saturday magazine with the UK's Guardian newspaper) and came across an article featuring a "pronatalist" family, Malcolm and Simone Collins. It's absolutely batshit. Their two sons are called Octavian George (fine), Torsten Savage (hmm), and they've got a daughter Titan Invictus and Simone gives birth to a second daughter they call Industry Americus - apparently, girls with "gender neutral names" are more likely to have high-paying careers and STEM degrees. 

Malcolm sounds incredibly arrogant and also quite nasty. At one point, the journalist goes with the family to a Thai restaurant, and Malcolm slaps his two-year-old son's face. In fucking PUBLIC! They do this because apparently tigers do this to their cubs in the wild, or something. They aren't religious, they're atheist - none of the usual "Biblical" "spare the rod and spoil the child" stuff. 

They also do pre-implantation genetic selection. Oh, and Simone is autistic as is the oldest child. She also has had a history of eating disorders and needs IVF to get pregnant, and needs a C-section every time. Neither of them seem to particularly like babies, liking them better when they're older. 

I can't describe the whole article in this post. The article is here, although you may need to register (it's free) to read it. I'm not sure; you may be able to click "I'll do it later" and be able to read it. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/25/american-pronatalists-malcolm-and-simone-collins

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

@JermajestyDuggar will probably recognize these people. They sure like getting publicity. 

[anachronistic]

What absolutely disgusting human beings. They are definitely the evil side of autism. And no way with CPS called on them because their children were wearing old clothes, that isn't how it works, but you can't leave toddlers alone alone outside. Also, they must be getting a ton of help with childcare if their next door neighbors are getting free rent for doing it, rent is not cheap and I've no doubt that they have valued it down to the last penny.

[Gobsmacked]

I hope Simone doesnt get pregnant again no matter how many rounds of IVF she has. Hopefully the 4 existing children escape and lead good lives. 

[indianabones]

Wow, these people suck. Those poor kids. I'm anticipating some very dark memoirs coming out from them in about 30 years.

[PopRox]

Is there a rule somewhere that if your last name is "Collins" you have to be obsessed with having lots of kids and not caring for them?

[JermajestyDuggar]

44 minutes ago, PopRox said:

Is there a rule somewhere that if your last name is "Collins" you have to be obsessed with having lots of kids and not caring for them?

Phil Collins has 5 kids but I think he probably takes care of them. Unlike Karissa.

[mango_fandango]

Yeah I foresee these kids needing therapy in the future. They’re going to be homeschooled whilst living in the middle of nowhere, and it seems like the parents aren’t interested in getting them involved in any kinds of extracurriculars. Fundies are shielded from “the world” but they at least get to go to church, or travel the country as part of a family band/singing group or whatever. 
I also wonder how many times Simone will be able to get pregnant again, given that IVF doesn’t have great success rates and that multiple C-sections can cause many health risks, particularly as she gets older.

 

[anjulibai]

They are all about logic and data, but base their parenting philosophy on tigers? 

[FilleMondaine]

The Christmas Contract was the most WTF, after the slap, of course. And while they declare their atheism, they certainly worship numbers.

[ChickenettiLuvr]

I'm still speechless. WTAF!?

Yes, I realize this article was a mere "snapshot" of their lives. But holy yikes on trikes. I'm unable to find one redeeming quality about either of them.

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

They are all about logic and data, but base their parenting philosophy on tigers? 

They are Tiger parents for sure. I have a feeling they will expect perfection from their children. 

[Margarita]

Their entire schtick boils down to eugenics; They’re freaked out that western countries have falling birth rates and the continent of Africa has rising rates. Just racism bathed in “intelligence”. 

[tankgirl]

So glad some one else saw the article and posted here. These people straight up have the same feelings towards kids as a lot of the fundies here do. Children are just a part of the parent with no actual acknowledgement these are actual humans with needs, who will grow up and be their own people. The Collins' see the kids as the same number game just like Karissa Collins. I feel for these kids their parents clearly do not like them.

Oh and Elon Musk already has kids who want nothing to do with him, so I don't see why you would chose to emulate his parenting? Add in hanging out with racists and that ilk, yeah they are just a different flavour of crappy parent 😪

[FilleMondaine]

20 minutes ago, Margarita said:

Their entire schtick boils down to eugenics; They’re freaked out that western countries have falling birth rates and the continent of Africa has rising rates. Just racism bathed in “intelligence”. 

And then they literally talked about ‘importing’ people from Africa, but that it would be ‘bad optics”

[Rowan]

3 hours ago, mango_fandango said:
I also wonder how many times Simone will be able to get pregnant again, given that IVF doesn’t have great success rates and that multiple C-sections can cause many health risks, particularly as she gets older.

 

Unfortunately for their situation, if they are doing the genetic screening, they have a good chance. A genetically normal embryo has about a 60% chance of a live birth. Just from reading in this thread, I sincerely hope that they aren’t successful. At least if they do need IVF, if she’s had multiple c-sections, the doctors could refuse to do any more transfers because of the risk to her. Unlike with couples not needing treatments who can just do a “whoops, guess I’m pregnant again.” 

[zeebaneighba]

I'm getting SO MANY racist vibes from this and I have barely started the article.  Gross.

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, Margarita said:

Their entire schtick boils down to eugenics; They’re freaked out that western countries have falling birth rates and the continent of Africa has rising rates. Just racism bathed in “intelligence”. 

Yeah I came here to say that too. Eugenics for the 21st century.

"Torsten has knocked the table with his foot and caused it to teeter, to almost topple, before it rights itself. Immediately – like a reflex – Malcolm hits him in the face."

What really gets me about that is it doesn't sound like it was a deliberate behaviour by the child - it's not described as "Torsten was kicking the table". It sounds like an accidental thing, which means hitting him across the face is going to do nothing except make him paranoid about being hit for things that were unintentional.

Also he's going to get a shock down the track when one of his kids hits him back.

"We arrive at Tai Me Up. The boys don’t want to be on their iPads; they are excited to be sitting on a banquette, at a table with a plastic orchid, drinking water through a straw. Malcolm tries to load some YouTube videos as the waitress takes our order."

From that description there wasn't so much parenting going on as "here's an ipad, don't disturb me". These kids are 4 and 2. They are going to need some guidance past being slapped across the face for things that they may or may not be doing deliberately - if he'd engaged with them, gotten them to look at the menu, explained what was happening then I'd probably believe his claim to like children a lot more, or at least have an idea about parenting. I'd also have understood the iPads in place of letting them run around the restaurant (assuming they don't have a kids play area here) until finished.

I sincerely hope this is their last child, they both sound like horrible parents.

Edited May 26 by Ozlsn

[Ozlsn]

9 hours ago, anjulibai said:

They are all about logic and data, but base their parenting philosophy on tigers? 

Got to explain the obvious and casual abuse somehow.

[mango_fandango]

I only really skimmed the article. I only based the "liking the kids better when older" on something Malcolm said. What people say and what they do aren't necessarily the same! Not only are those kids going to grow up very isolated, they're going to have a very strong sense that their parents don't like or even really want them. 

I notice they screened out stuff like genetic predispositions to cancer and dementia etc in the embryos, but they seem to ignore the fact that not everyone is born disabled. Accidents can and do happen, and can leave people with life-altering disabilities/consequences. Look at Jill's younger sister Amy, for example. (There are loads more examples obviously, but they're too numerous to list here).

[Becky]

Just…wow. They sound like cheerful psychopaths. Those poor kids, they are just props for their parents, who obviously do not like children at all. 

I did not know Elon Musk is also one of these “pronatalists.” I now have yet another reason to detest him. 
 

[closetcagebaby]

This article just kept getting more insane. I’m so glad you posted it! Kind of minor in the scheme of things but they don’t heat their house??? In a PA winter???

Weird choice to wear a dirndl for your photo shoot if you’re trying to convince the public this isn’t some sort of weird fetish racism eugenics thing. 

[anachronistic]

Yeah there are plenty of ways to be warm in the winter while pregnant without wearing a dirndl. If she had just been wearing a regular dress with multiple layers underneath it nobody would have noticed.

They don't screen for autism - I didn't know that you could do that with embryos, it is pretty terrifying that you can - but - and I say this as an autistic person myself - there is a very good chance, with at least one autistic parent, that they will get a kid with pretty high needs autism, who is nonverbal, who is unable to learn the way that their other kids learn, who will react very, very differently to ordinary stimuli - what then? I bet that they would just be neglected, or they might put them in one of those very intense, 80 hour a week behavioral programs that was just traumatize them and not actually teach them anything. I never thought that I would see parents that make the Rods look halfway decent.…. but here we are.

[Pammy]

Wow. I mean, they are technically correct about a few things, but they've generated about the most disdainful and horrible approach to childbearing I've seen in a long time.

I guess, at least it's not hypocritical about how much affection fundies claim to have about their 'blessings' that they proceed to traumatize and neglect. They just think that low-effort high-trauma parenting (with primary strategies of casual corporal punishment, open manipulation, high reliance on screen time, and on-site childcare) is the right way to prioritize themselves while generating a significant number of humans to exist in the future.

I can see that it's technically correct, in a very twisted way. Under that scheme, most of their offspring are likely to be very little trouble during childhood, and they are likely to grow up and become adults who exist and do things in the world. It's definitely the minimum input one can put forward to achieve the desired outcome.

Essentially they are saying: "There's no need to worry that having children is expensive or difficult. After all, nobody says you actually have to do a good job."

In addition to the obvious racist connections of this movement, I think it's essential to notice that in spite of efforts to lessen women's obligations towards childrearing, having and raising children is most often reliant on the uncompensated labour of women -- so feminism and equality are taking a huge hit. Plus, does anyone else have mixed feelings about an autistic woman who didn't want this life at all being logically persuaded (manipulated? due to vulnerabilities from autism?) to donate her whole life to what is essentially her husband's baby-factory agenda? This whole thing stinks of a new version of a "trophy wife" who is not a young hot model hanging of the CEO's arm, but a barefoot pregnant woman at home making dinner for his brood of little genetic achievements. (Or maybe not. In this version she only has to do the 'pregnant' part. Maybe it's more like a blended approach with 19th century aristocracy? Give birth, hire nanny, see the kids for an hour or two per day, carry on a career as if you were childless.)

[JesusCampSongs]

Hilarious that this couple, both of whom have terrible vision and one of whom is also autistic, think that they would have been considered good breeding stock by the OG eugenicists. 😵‍💫

I can’t keep count of the number of “pronatalists” who think their genes are super special that would have absolutely been, at minimum, forcibly sterilized a century ago had the eugenicists gotten their way. The lack of education and self-awareness is stunning.