Absolute Insanity: The Atheist Collins Family

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 hours ago, Pammy said:

Essentially they are saying: "There's no need to worry that having children is expensive or difficult. After all, nobody says you actually have to do a good job."

Most fundies/religious institutions that promote large families also say this. 

On the other hand, it's been speculated that guys like Musk are worried there won't be enough people to do grunt work. Somebody's got to work in the warehouses. 

[Ozlsn]

On 5/27/2024 at 6:35 AM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

On the other hand, it's been speculated that guys like Musk are worried there won't be enough people to do grunt work. Somebody's got to work in the warehouses. 

If that was the case they would be in favour of immigration. Pretty sure it's the replacement theory dressed up in numbers.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think if you are rich as hell, have a shit load of kids, and then they have a shit load of kids, and then they have a shit load of kids, your family wealth gets split too many ways. Sure your great grandchildren have money to live on. But they aren’t rich. If Elon Musk was a bit smarter, he would’ve only have 3 kids or less. And encouraged his kids to only have a few kids too.

[FilleMondaine]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think if you are rich as hell, have a shit load of kids, and then they have a shit load of kids, and then they have a shit load of kids, your family wealth gets split too many ways. Sure your great grandchildren have money to live on. But they aren’t rich. If Elon Musk was a bit smarter, he would’ve only have 3 kids or less. And encouraged his kids to only have a few kids too.

It happened to the Merovingians.

[marmalade]

49 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

It happened to the Merovingians.

We're watching the Duggar pie get cut up into tiny pieces.

[HereticHick]

There are so many WTF items in that article, from the guns not locked away to the kids in shortsleeves in the photo while mom is in multiple layers. But one thing that I think not enough folks have pointed out is when Malcolm says that the kids sleep in his office, because he "uses it during the day and they use it during the night"

WHERE do your small children NAP, Malcolm? Do they just curl up on the cold floor somewhere??

[JermajestyDuggar]

49 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

There are so many WTF items in that article, from the guns not locked away to the kids in shortsleeves in the photo while mom is in multiple layers. But one thing that I think not enough folks have pointed out is when Malcolm says that the kids sleep in his office, because he "uses it during the day and they use it during the night"

WHERE do your small children NAP, Malcolm? Do they just curl up on the cold floor somewhere??

Naps are for wimps. These are Tiger children. 

[Gobsmacked]

Todd Grande just put a YouTube up about these mad parents. 

[Pammy]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

But one thing that I think not enough folks have pointed out is when Malcolm says that the kids sleep in his office, because he "uses it during the day and they use it during the night"

WHERE do your small children NAP, Malcolm? Do they just curl up on the cold floor somewhere??

I'm guessing that the obvious choice would be for the kids to nap *next door* where they (most likely) live full time with a dedicated onsite caregiver during their parents' full time jobs.

Nobody gives away a free rental home in exchange for less that 40h weekly childcare. In fact, that seems minimal. My guess is that it's a lot more than 40h per week that the kids spend at their other house, and most likely 3 meals per day too.

[HereticHick]

24 minutes ago, Pammy said:

I'm guessing that the obvious choice would be for the kids to nap *next door* where they (most likely) live full time with a dedicated onsite caregiver during their parents' full time jobs.

Nobody gives away a free rental home in exchange for less that 40h weekly childcare. In fact, that seems minimal. My guess is that it's a lot more than 40h per week that the kids spend at their other house, and most likely 3 meals per day too.

I wonder if that is where they are going to be "homeschooled" at the other house as well. The Collins basically have a nanny, but aren't willing to admit it.

[noseybutt]

I made the mistake of reading some of their writings and found it chilling because they have a weird mix of libertarian, eugenic, anti-democratic, and growth-without-sustainability beliefs that WILL make them darlings in certain Republican circles. Plus, they are monied and connected and well spoken.

We will be hearing more from them. So much more.

As for their family life? They would do well to read through the case studies here of families who chose to conflate family life with strongly held beliefs, extensive media/social media exposure, grifting, and political aspirations. Has it ever ended well? I can't think of a single family that has thrived in that pressure cooker.

They clearly have not done their research.

 

[Gobsmacked]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I wonder if that is where they are going to be "homeschooled" at the other house as well. The Collins basically have a nanny, but aren't willing to admit it.

I hope he childminders are not as abusive as the father. Hopefully the children will be hugged, live in a warm caring environment and shown they are worth something. The parents appear incapable of anything. 

[neuroticcat]

It was a nightmare article, and I am glad they are an CPS' radar. The slap in the restaurant was bonkers. And the racist undertones and eugenics. 

Wild to think that much of this is the Quiverfull approach without the religious language - as heavy handed as it is - to cushion it. Ugly and dehumanizing for children. 

[FluffySnowball]

The article was hard to read. It's like the Collins parents force their children to grow up in dystopian circumstances. How they describe their family life sounds like the plot of a psychological thriller. My heart breaks for the poor kids.

Two additional thoughts: 

1. If the parents care so much about intelligence and IQ, why is there no mention of exposing them to opportunities for early learning? Toddler music, baby swimming, book time for littles at the local library?! An iPad won't teach them much. 

2. I bet a tiger mother parents much more gently. Nudging a tiger cub with a furry paw isn't as violent as slapping a human toddler across the face. Also, it is in every tiger mother's best interest not to damage her cubs for life. Instead, she wants to rise capable, strong, healthy offspring that can survive and thrive. 

Edited May 30 by FluffySnowball

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 5/25/2024 at 6:27 PM, anjulibai said:

They are all about logic and data, but base their parenting philosophy on tigers? 

I think it's based on this book: Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. (link)  

I vaguely remembered the book when I saw this thread.  They probably are fans of the book and the author.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

The article was hard to read. It's like the Collins parents force their children to grow up in dystopian circumstances. How they describe their family life sounds like the plot of a psychological thriller. My heart breaks for the poor kids.

Two additional thoughts: 

1. If the parents care so much about intelligence and IQ, why is there no mention of exposing them to opportunities for early learning? Toddler music, baby swimming, book time for littles at the local library?! An iPad won't teach them much. 

2. I bet a tiger mother parents much more gently. Nudging a tiger cub with a furry paw isn't as violent as slapping a human toddler across the face. Also, it is in every tiger mother's best interest not to damage her cubs for life. Instead, she wants to rise capable, strong, healthy offspring that can survive and thrive. 

I bet they assume intelligence is almost all genetic. And I will say, it can be mostly genetic for some folks. Like Albert Einstein genius types. But many of those extreme types actually had a lot of trouble in school. Because they learned so differently. And you know these parents would never bother to help their kids learn in the best way for them. 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I think it's based on this book: Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. (link)  

I vaguely remembered the book when I saw this thread.  They probably are fans of the book and the author.

I've read the book when it came out years ago and while I found the parenting style absolutely horrible, Amy Chua (the author) was anything but a lazy parent. She invested a huge amount of time into drilling her two daughters to study from toddlerhood onwards. No iPad or movies in her book, just control, supervision, and force. The Collins parents seem very different. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

I've read the book when it came out years ago and while I found the parenting style absolutely horrible, Amy Chua (the author) was anything but a lazy parent. She invested a huge amount of time into drilling her two daughters to study from toddlerhood onwards. No iPad or movies in her book, just control, supervision, and force. The Collins parents seem very different. 

I think her kids turned out to be fairly average as adults if I remember correctly.

[FluffySnowball]

27 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think her kids turned out to be fairly average as adults if I remember correctly.

Last thing I heard was that both of her daughters made it into ivory league universities but I don't know how they're doing emotionally and how they're now. I wish them happiness and contentment in their adult life, it seems their childhood wasn't easy. 

I don't understand why some parents advocate for such extremes. Amy Chua made her children study and practice musical instruments instead of playing and attending birthday parties or sleepovers, the Collins parents have some weird breeding ideas and shove their kids infront of screens. I don't get it. What about some calmness and common sense in parenting?! Some balance between academic learning and play and fun? 

ETA: I'm aware parenting isn't easy so I don't mean to imply that with common sense, it just is. It never is a simple task. But extremes aren't the way to go in my opinion. 

Edited May 30 by FluffySnowball

[noseybutt]

4 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

The article was hard to read. It's like the Collins parents force their children to grow up in dystopian circumstances. How they describe their family life sounds like the plot of a psychological thriller. My heart breaks for the poor kids.

Two additional thoughts: 

1. If the parents care so much about intelligence and IQ, why is there no mention of exposing them to opportunities for early learning? Toddler music, baby swimming, book time for littles at the local library?! An iPad won't teach them much. 

2. I bet a tiger mother parents much more gently. Nudging a tiger cub with a furry paw isn't as violent as slapping a human toddler across the face. Also, it is in every tiger mother's best interest not to damage her cubs for life. Instead, she wants to rise capable, strong, healthy offspring that can survive and thrive. 

(1) They don’t understand the research and, like @JermajestyDuggar points out, assume IQ is genetic. Hence the embryo selection and lazy parenting.

To me, the iPads and bopping on the face are signs of an underdeveloped parenting toolbox. He’s taking every possible shortcut. I suspect they don’t spend much in-person time with other parents and young children and thus are not exposed to a wide range of toddler/parent interactions.

Much is said about poor socialization of homeschooling children, but really there is a similar issue with socialization of parents. We underestimate how much of our parenting is shaped by those around us and rightly so, it’s not like we have memories or a clear understanding of how we were parented during infancy and toddlerhood.

(2) There is a YouTube video where they respond to this article and Simone holds the baby during much of it. She seems calm and interacts with the infant in loving and appropriate ways. Their agreement though is that she hands the children to Malcom at 18 months and he takes over.

And I think that’s where it goes sideways. Multiple toddlers as a single parent is not easy. And so he hacks it all—pretty much does whatever he can to survive. 

He makes a statement in the video that it’s impossible to take children to restaurants without iPads and he says it with extreme confidence. Yet, parents do take kids to restaurants without iPads all the time. The trick with multiple toddlers and preschoolers is to have more than one adult. It’s not that complicated.

This is slug parenting with the expectation of tiger parenting results. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, noseybutt said:

(1) They don’t understand the research and, like @JermajestyDuggar points out, assume IQ is genetic. Hence the embryo selection and lazy parenting.

To me, the iPads and bopping on the face are signs of an underdeveloped parenting toolbox. He’s taking every possible shortcut. I suspect they don’t spend much in-person time with other parents and young children and thus are not exposed to a wide range of toddler/parent interactions.

Much is said about poor socialization of homeschooling children, but really there is a similar issue with socialization of parents. We underestimate how much of our parenting is shaped by those around us and rightly so, it’s not like we have memories or a clear understanding of how we were parented during infancy and toddlerhood.

(2) There is a YouTube video where they respond to this article and Simone holds the baby during much of it. She seems calm and interacts with the infant in loving and appropriate ways. Their agreement though is that she hands the children to Malcom at 18 months and he takes over.

And I think that’s where it goes sideways. Multiple toddlers as a single parent is not easy. And so he hacks it all—pretty much does whatever he can to survive. 

He makes a statement in the video that it’s impossible to take children to restaurants without iPads and he says it with extreme confidence. Yet, parents do take kids to restaurants without iPads all the time. The trick with multiple toddlers and preschoolers is to have more than one adult. It’s not that complicated.

This is slug parenting with the expectation of tiger parenting results. 

 

Lol I’m a slug parent I guess. But I just never took my toddlers out to eat at restaurants. We got take out and ate at home instead. I am the type of parent who refuses to do things with kids who are possibly not ready for it yet. And it’s just a hassle for the parents. Like trying to potty train a 1 year old who isn’t ready. Or taking a toddler to a restaurant and expecting them to not walk around and explore while waiting for food. My kids are now perfectly able to eat at restaurants and behave. They never watch iPads or anything because they are developmentally able to sit and talk with us while we wait for food. For me, I just waited until they were ready to introduce these situations. 

[treehugger]

I think there’s a difference between waiting till a child is developmentally ready for something and just hacking it by doing the easiest possible thing. I didn’t often take the girls out to eat when they were toddlers. It wasn’t the most relaxing thing, and it wasn’t necessary.  But we did go to the library, and parks and I read them books and we did puzzles and crafts and played games. It was fun to do that with them, and it was good for their development. It wasn’t being lazy, it was picking my battles. 

Edited May 30 by treehugger

[noseybutt]

7 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I think there’s a difference between waiting till a child is developmentally ready for something and just hacking it by doing the easiest possible thing. I didn’t often take the girls out to eat when they were toddlers. It wasn’t the most relaxing thing, and it wasn’t necessary.  But we did go to the library, and parks and I read them books and we did puzzles and crafts and played games. It was fun to do that with them, and it was good for their development. It wasn’t being lazy, it was picking my battles. 

Let's not forget that Malcolm not only took the toddlers to the restaurant by himself, but he did so KNOWING that he was being interviewed by a major media outlet. 

He's a media whore and wants a response, not caring if it's good or bad. 

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

Last thing I heard was that both of her daughters made it into ivory league universities but I don't know how they're doing emotionally and how they're now. I wish them happiness and contentment in their adult life, it seems their childhood wasn't easy. 

I don't understand why some parents advocate for such extremes. Amy Chua made her children study and practice musical instruments instead of playing and attending birthday parties or sleepovers, the Collins parents have some weird breeding ideas and shove their kids infront of screens. I don't get it. What about some calmness and common sense in parenting?! Some balance between academic learning and play and fun? 

ETA: I'm aware parenting isn't easy so I don't mean to imply that with common sense, it just is. It never is a simple task. But extremes aren't the way to go in my opinion. 

The Chua daughters have done "well" by their mother's standards. Both graduates of Ivy League law schools and working high power careers.

The more interesting story is Amy Chua and her husband. Both of them were censored by their law schools for different reasons. Her censure was less serious and involved drunken gatherings during the pandemic. Also poor boundaries with her students and expecting female students to look/dress a certain way in professional settings. His allegations were more serious--that he sexually groomed/harassed a female student. I think he was suspended for 2 years.

[Caroline]

1 hour ago, noseybutt said:

He makes a statement in the video that it’s impossible to take children to restaurants without iPads and he says it with extreme confidence. Yet, parents do take kids to restaurants without iPads all the time. The trick with multiple toddlers and preschoolers is to have more than one adult. It’s not that complicated.

What a fool he is. I was at a bridal shower last weekend in a kind of fancy venue (It was a tearoom with lots of decoration everywhere, including hot teapots). There were several children there between the ages of 4 and 12. There was not an iPad or tablet in sight. The parents were attentive to their children, and when the kids got bored they were able to color in large coloring pages representing a bride and groom. This took planning on someone's part - to have the pages printed and to bring enough crayons for all the children. It was great and so nice to not see anyone at all on any version of an electronic device. 

The Collins parents are just plain irresponsible and lazy as well as cavalier. It should be fun to see how the deal (or don't ) with a bunch of teenagers some day. 

[noseybutt]

16 minutes ago, Caroline said:

What a fool he is. I was at a bridal shower last weekend in a kind of fancy venue (It was a tearoom with lots of decoration everywhere, including hot teapots). There were several children there between the ages of 4 and 12. There was not an iPad or tablet in sight. The parents were attentive to their children, and when the kids got bored they were able to color in large coloring pages representing a bride and groom. This took planning on someone's part - to have the pages printed and to bring enough crayons for all the children. It was great and so nice to not see anyone at all on any version of an electronic device. 

The Collins parents are just plain irresponsible and lazy as well as cavalier. It should be fun to see how the deal (or don't ) with a bunch of teenagers some day. 

There are conflicting reports about Malcom's teenage years. Some report that he was sent to boarding school during his parents high-profile contentious divorce, other outlets report that he was sent into the "troubled-teen" industry and was possibly homeless for a period of time. Who knows. The gist is that it was rough.

Parenting teens is likely to push his buttons in all kinds of unexpected ways.

I suspect the family will have a religious conversion along the way. There's not going to be great options for socialization otherwise.