Doug Phillips (is a tool) resigning!

[Ms Lucy Fur]

Just saw this on Chris jeub's twitter...I'll keep my slingshots and coonskin cap, but you can keep your Vision.

[Mary C Doates]

I don't think they pulled the catalog. They just did not publish a print version

Probably used the money that was designated for a print catalogue on that mission to Greece.

Doug Phillips is still a tool.

[RosyDaisy]

What is cracking me up is all of the sudden all the VF fundies in my circle and online are distancing themselves from VF's beliefs. Chris Jeub has some very strong things to say about Doug Phillip's beliefs in his comments section(by the way, his daughter works AND goes to a Switchfoot concert??) and even links to this article http://www.constellationhope.com/2013/1 ... to-me.html stating that he identifies strongly with it.

The VF and former VF people in my social circle are rapidly distancing themselves from from VF's most distinct gender beliefs. Rumor is strongly leaning towards it being Lourdes as the "other woman."

To the bolded: This is a good sign. I hope these people will turn away from VF and their horrible beliefs. As to who this woman is, well, I don't really care. If she is an adult woman who engaged in a consensual sexual act with a married man, I have absolutely no sympathy for her. That may be an unpopular opinion, but it takes 2 to engange in the act of adultry, and it's only fair that both be blamed.

[meda]

If it is Lourdes, then she was a member of his church and his employee, which makes him a real scum bag. What makes him an even biggger scum bag is that the Torres family is one of the poorer families in the VF inner circle, and Im pretty sure her dad works for VF. I wonder how much choice a sheltered young woman like that, who wasbrought up in that belief system had in the matter. Who was she supposed to go to if anything Doug Phillips did made her uncomfortable or was not consensual?

[docmom]

But he's a CHRISTIAN and he SAID he's SORRY.

Pot meet kettle

[TrueRebel1]

The VF crowd definitely seem to affect a "lord and lady of the manor" attitude. This is probably one reason why they seem to be into neo-Confederate stuff and slavery apologetics, because they see themselves as the "cavaliers and ladies" of the New Old Southern Order. This is why it's odd that the Duggars are associating with VF, since they seem to have more of a blue collar appeal. I can't see the Duggars - or any ATI family - buying the overpriced crap in the VF catalog. Gothardites in general don't seem to like toys, even if they are about building "manliness" or "beauty." As mentioned upthread, VF is too sectarian to appeal to a general audience, and the few who are buying probably cant afford to buy new things every year (ie hand me downs). So who's really buying this stuff?

I remember several years ago, VF having a QA article. One customer asked "why the emphasis on expensive toys and materials; wouldn't a cardboard banana box hold toys as well as the $300 heirloom toy chest they sold? And how are lavish toys a wise expense for a large family with a small budget?" Doug replied that basically, it's so important to nurture the generational size of childhood, and provide them with heirloom quality toys and furniture, blah, blah, blah.

Personally, I know a few well-to-do families who over the years have bought a LOT of VF stuff. And when you have 10 kids and give them extravagant gifts every Christmas and birthday, that gives a fair amount of business to VF.

[Mary C Doates]

Probably used the money that was designated for a print catalogue on that mission to Greece.

Doug Phillips is still a tool.

Just saw on the VF Facebook page that you can get a print copy of the catalogue...for $ 5.00. Donation to the Doug Phillips Is A Tool Defense Fund and/or Christmas Costume Party Mission?

[TrueRebel1]

Would embezzlement be worse than an affair in their circle? I'd think that an affair, particularly if it was with a SAHD type would be much worse than "oops I messed up the bookkeeping a little (lot) in my favor." These families all have eleventy billion kids, so I would think the lure of money would be more easily forgiven that looking at those evil, tempting womenfolk.

[doggie]

One thing to point out is this won't stop people from going this way. I mean if the end of times not happening does not stop people from believing a little sex is not going to do it.

[Sobeknofret]

The Wartburg Watch is going to be publishing an article today on the whole mess, and they state that there's an investigation into finances of VF as well. I'd really like to see what they have to say about it, and what their sources are.

The Well-Trained Mind is a homsechool community for people who use the book "The Well-Trained Mind" by Susan Wise Bauer, or her history series Story of the World. It's got a Christian slant, but there are plenty of secular, non-Christian, and liberal/progressive Christians who use the forums-- I'm one of them. Mainly, she focuses on Classical education. Bauer has recently been refusing to do homeschool conferences due to Ken Ham/VF/Quiverful theology that has permeated the conferences in the past several years. She had a dust-up with Ken Ham several years ago, and she's very much anti-VF and anti-creationism.

[Rosie]

Jennie Chancey warns against "malicious gossip or pointless speculation or self-righteous moralizing."

ladiesagainstfeminism.org/personal-testimonies/resignation-and-repentance/

Bitch, please!

Oh, that is RICH.

[nokidsmom]

Did some more thinking about this (of course):

Still believe it was actually a woman, not a man, and that something physical did actually happen.

However, I get the feeling that that he was caught in an emotional web as well. As pointed out in one of the blogs, he didn't outright put any blame on the woman, something that he did do to women in his own organization when they were in an inappropriate relationship. Interesting. He's not going to say it, but he may have a serious emotional connection to this person and maybe trying to protect her as much as he can. The emotional aspect has caught him off guard.

Think it's not a smokescreen for any other financial funny business / other affairs / etc. but now that he's a fallen leader, he's going to be fair game for exposure if indeed other things did happen. If for no other reason, other VF leaders will want to take his place and if they can dish more dirt to do it, they will. Dougie has fallen and he's no longer off limits.

Considering the very legalistic nature of VF, he's done. He's broken the rules, the very strict rules he insisted others live by. He's been the "homeschool hero" for many, he has set himself as a paragon of virture and his family as the perfect example. That's all shot now; people in that organization expect perfection, something that he's set up. Now that he's shown he's actually human to the whole world, that's just not going to be acceptable. He lived by the sword in a sense, so he's going to die by the sword.

[Buzzard]

Would embezzlement be worse than an affair in their circle? I'd think that an affair, particularly if it was with a SAHD type would be much worse than "oops I messed up the bookkeeping a little (lot) in my favor." These families all have eleventy billion kids, so I would think the lure of money would be more easily forgiven that looking at those evil, tempting womenfolk.

I've been in contact with these groups since my childhood, and I can say for a fact: An affair is a far worse sin than money matters. An affair is what tears apart a family, and we all know that to these people, family is their God. Embezzlement or foolish money choices can be forgiven and forgotten. An affair is worthy of permanent excommunication.

Theft = investigation, possible prosecution, and a perp walk

Adultery = Apology

edit to fix quote

[Clementine]

Found this old gem, the "Thank you Michelle"-video. Is Lordes Torres the last woman in the video?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=446606235309

[sableduck]

I can't seem to quote, sorry.

I have several friends that have been heavily involved in VF and close circles, including with Little Bear Wheeler and that circle. They are rapidly distancing themselves from VF and VF beliefs today, not so much on facebook and blogs(yet) but in conversations. There is much stronger criticism towards Dougie the Tool than I maybe would have thought there would be. He has been almost deified for many years.

There was always discussion that Dougie had come on inappropriately to Aimee Wheeler. She was nannying for them when her dad suddenly pulled her out and began having very little to do with Dougie. Whether it was that or something else happened, there was friendship and collaboration between the two men and it ended overnight.

edited because I forgot what I was trying to say...

[kpmom]

Found this old gem, the "Thank you Michelle"-video. Is Lordes Torres the last woman in the video?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=446606235309

Just watched the video. I don't know the answer to your question, but if so, she is very attractive.

Don't know if this has already been brought up, but I keep thinking about the woman who wrote that Jen's Gems blog. I couldn't blame her if she is laughing up her sleeve right about now.

[Abby_B]

Stacy Mcdonald is warbling on about not being gleeful when other people stumble... I guess that means I'm in trouble. 8-)

yoursacredcalling.com/blog/2013/10/something-to-think-about

[WonderingInWA]

Found this old gem, the "Thank you Michelle"-video. Is Lordes Torres the last woman in the video?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=446606235309

Yep, that's her. She was also a bridesmaid in Kelly and Peter Bradrick's wedding if you can find those group shots from 2006. She's pretty.

[sableduck]

What a creep. Someone suggested a name, and I found this. Nothing like not only cheating on your wife, but abusing your power over an employee. Although we all know from the homosexuality debate that christians don't believe in consent.

This would be Natasha Epstein writing. Her best friend is the woman who's name has been suggested numerous times.

Because of the immense power imbalance, if she is the one who turns out to be the receipient of Dougie's illicit affection, there would be very little blame towards her IMO. This would not be a woman Dougie met at outside of VF circles who would be able to choose him and an affair freely. I would feel nothing but grief for her, because I am sure she believed he really did love her and would protect her, and I am sure that was all promised(among numerous other things from his overinflated ego).

[Mela99]

So which family will be the first to offer their undying support and forgiveness?

[tropaka]

Crap, I was too busy being gleeful over the whole Mayor Ford fiasco yesterday and missed this!

[Clementine]

This would be Natasha Epstein writing. Her best friend is the woman who's name has been suggested numerous times.

Because of the immense power imbalance, if she is the one who turns out to be the receipient of Dougie's illicit affection, there would be very little blame towards her IMO. This would not be a woman Dougie met at outside of VF circles who would be able to choose him and an affair freely. I would feel nothing but grief for her, because I am sure she believed he really did love her and would protect her, and I am sure that was all promised(among numerous other things from his overinflated ego).

According to this blog, her father is a janitor and they live in a mobile home.

http://visiondistorting.blogspot.se/201 ... hters.html

The family is not exactly fundie royalty when it comes to money and / or status. If Lourdes and her brother hadn't been so beautiful, I am sure that Doug just would have ignored them. He's so vain.

Found this from the old board, with Lourdes brother:

:D

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/7565#.UnPaBxAljUw

[Abby_B]

Found this old gem, the "Thank you Michelle"-video. Is Lordes Torres the last woman in the video?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=446606235309

Yep that's Lourdes. And man that video is annoying.

[MissBitters]

Did some more thinking about this (of course):

Still believe it was actually a woman, not a man, and that something physical did actually happen.

However, I get the feeling that that he was caught in an emotional web as well. As pointed out in one of the blogs, he didn't outright put any blame on the woman, something that he did do to women in his own organization when they were in an inappropriate relationship. Interesting. He's not going to say it, but he may have a serious emotional connection to this person and maybe trying to protect her as much as he can. The emotional aspect has caught him off guard.

Think it's not a smokescreen for any other financial funny business / other affairs / etc. but now that he's a fallen leader, he's going to be fair game for exposure if indeed other things did happen. If for no other reason, other VF leaders will want to take his place and if they can dish more dirt to do it, they will. Dougie has fallen and he's no longer off limits.

Considering the very legalistic nature of VF, he's done. He's broken the rules, the very strict rules he insisted others live by. He's been the "homeschool hero" for many, he has set himself as a paragon of virture and his family as the perfect example. That's all shot now; people in that organization expect perfection, something that he's set up. Now that he's shown he's actually human to the whole world, that's just not going to be acceptable. He lived by the sword in a sense, so he's going to die by the sword.

I agee with everything here. While I don't think highly of the man, I think this was a consensual affair with an emotional connection. While none of us here at FJ would ever find Doug attractive due to his personality and beliefs, quite a few single (and some married) Vision Forum ladies probably have had some sort of crush at him one point. Until now he was the epitome of their belief system. I don't believe he would have to coerce a female follower into a relationship. Or at least I hope not...

[delilahdog11]

Why is that I get the feeling that the woman involved in this is going to be treated much worse than how Doug is going to be treated. I bet that Doug would throw her under the bus if it meant he could retain some power and control.

If he came on to one of his employees that is even worse because now he is sexually harassing someone and coercing her into returning his affections. I doubt that she would even be able to file a lawsuit as I am sure she would be guided-harassed- into keeping quiet. But it is also entirely possible if it was one of his employees that the attraction was completely mutual. Males already have a greater amount of power and control in Doug's church, so I do wonder how much choice this woman actually had.

I am still shocked that he would actually own up to this.