Duggars, Duggars Everywhere - General Discussion Part 2

[snarkykitty]

Sounds kind of Catholic to me.

Catholics, by doctrine, are never "forced" to Confess their sins to a Priest. Just as we are responsible for our actions (and sins), we are also solely responsible for seeking absolution. So, no, being forced or required to confess your sins to your parents in a "prayer closet" is nowhere even close to "sounding Catholic".

[PennySycamore]

Live doll wtf. That's what toddlers say when they have a new sib for a wee while when helping mummy till the novelty wears of. They really have drank the koolaid poor sods.

Prayer closet looks really creepy from that pic.

I think I've mentioned this before, but my mom was told she was getting a new doll when her sister was born. When she found out that her new doll was a baby sister, she was so mad! She always said that she just wanted to throw that new sister in the river.

[Katydid]

Sounds kind of Catholic to me.

Oi, we're not forced, just so you know. You can choose to go to confession or not; it's of your own free will. Also, one should strive for perfect contrition, which is motivated by a love of God, as opposed to fear of Hell or another reason. It's all about a personal relationship.

Back to your regularly scheduled snarking.

[Katydid]

Josie has been seen by some of the best pediatric doctors in Arkansas. If they saw developmental delays and issues where therapy was needed I'm sure they prescribed the therapy. Michelle told one of the posters here that Josie was getting at least one kind of therapy. Josie may not be gifted or physically talented, but she could in most areas test within the range of normal development and still not do well in snippets filmed for the show.

Yes. My son is a preemie and preemie development is hard to gauge just from bits and pieces of their lives. And honestly, Josie is extremely lucky to not have severe complications from her prematurity. I'm glad to see her as healthy and active as she is.

[Dollypeeps]

I think I've mentioned this before, but my mom was told she was getting a new doll when her sister was born. When she found out that her new doll was a baby sister, she was so mad! She always said that she just wanted to throw that new sister in the river.

I hope they get along now.

[Rescinded and Mended]

It's been a good many years since I have cast off the Catholic beliefs I was raised with, but I clearly remember being forced to go to Confession, along with my classmates, when I attended Catholic school as a child. We were forced to attend bi-yearly appointments with our priest and "confess our sins." We could also talk about anything else on our minds. These meetings were mandatory, not voluntary. I learned quickly that it was far wiser to stall and say nothing of any significance when I later discovered that our priest was informing our parents of what we said during Confession.

As someone who was regularly abused at home, it didn't go well for me. So one of the most important things I learned early on in Catholic school was the value of lying.

I am not suggesting for even a moment that this is a proper Catholic teaching, or that adults are forced to Confess as part of the doctrine. I think the idea of Confession, something that should bring comfort and ease to one who wishes to unburden one's heart, was twisted and manipulated in a way that was harmful to me and at least some of my classmates.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Jim Bob and Michelle drew from the Catholic aspect of Confession and told their children how important it was to confess to them, their parents, every personal detail about themselves, supposedly in the interest of "finding harmony with one's parents and God." In reality, enforced disclosure is intrusive, and a form of abuse that is used to manipulate the feelings of its mark.

[Katydid]

It's been a good many years since I have cast off the Catholic beliefs I was raised with, but I clearly remember being forced to go to Confession, along with my classmates, when I attended Catholic school as a child. We were forced to attend bi-yearly appointments with our priest and "confess our sins." We could also talk about anything else on our minds. These meetings were mandatory, not voluntary. I learned quickly that it was far wiser to stall and say nothing of any significance when I later discovered that our priest was informing our parents of what we said during Confession.

As someone who was regularly abused at home, it didn't go well for me. So one of the most important things I learned early on in Catholic school was the value of lying.

I am not suggesting for even a moment that this is a proper Catholic teaching, or that adults are forced to Confess as part of the doctrine. I think the idea of Confession, something that should bring comfort and ease to one who wishes to unburden one's heart, was twisted and manipulated in a way that was harmful to me and at least some of my classmates.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Jim Bob and Michelle drew from the Catholic aspect of Confession and told their children how important it was to confess to them, their parents, every personal detail about themselves, supposedly in the interest of "finding harmony with one's parents and God." In reality, enforced disclosure is intrusive, and a form of abuse that is used to manipulate the feelings of its mark.

I am so sorry that you went through that. What happened to you was utterly wrong, and should never have happened. The confessional is supposed to be sacrosanct; hearing that it was not for you is very upsetting.I was also abused as a child,and hearing that your priest helped perpetuate that and hurt your classmates is just awful. I am so sorry.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I am so sorry that you went through that. What happened to you was utterly wrong, and should never have happened. The confessional is supposed to be sacrosanct; hearing that it was not for you is very upsetting.I was also abused as a child,and hearing that your priest helped perpetuate that and hurt your classmates is just awful. I am so sorry.

Thank you. It took quite a long time to work through my feelings of anger, both with my mother and the church. The hardest part was trying to figure out how she could seemingly read my mind during that time...wasn't until years later that I found out about the phone calls. I am also sorry to hear that you suffered abuse as a child. It's a difficult thing to work through as an adult, I hope that you are now safe and happy. :)

[griffin]

i and all my classmates were most certainly forced to go to confession. the nuns taught us that jesus was coming any day and we would go to hell if we had a " black spot" on our souls. plus, you couldn't receive communion if you hadn't confessed. everyone would notice if you didn't go up for communion. peer pressure at its worst. it was brutal. i had nothing to confess and would always struggle to make something up

[halfheartedheroine]

i and all my classmates were most certainly forced to go to confession. the nuns taught us that jesus was coming any day and we would go to hell if we had a " black spot" on our souls. plus, you couldn't receive communion if you hadn't confessed. everyone would notice if you didn't go up for communion. peer pressure at its worst. it was brutal. i had nothing to confess and would always struggle to make something up

I used to make things up to say in confession, and then I was thinking that I'd go to a special ring of hell for making up things in confession... didn't help that there was a MASSIVE statue of Jesus staring at you the entire time :lol:

[lascuba]

What in the world do those girls have to confess? They don't go anywhere, do anything, or associate with non-approved people without supervision. I know Ampak said confession was her word, not theirs, but I wonder what else they could mean. Optimistically, it's a time that Michelle and Boob set aside to spend with each child individually. But in the prayer closet? I wonder if these sessions are why the girls get sent to that Journey camp, or why Jana hasn't courted--they confess their feelings and doubts, and boom, the parents decide they need reprogramming and aren't ready for courtship.

[church_of_dog]

What in the world do those girls have to confess? They don't go anywhere, do anything, or associate with non-approved people without supervision. I know Ampak said confession was her word, not theirs, but I wonder what else they could mean. Optimistically, it's a time that Michelle and Boob set aside to spend with each child individually. But in the prayer closet? I wonder if these sessions are why the girls get sent to that Journey camp, or why Jana hasn't courted--they confess their feelings and doubts, and boom, the parents decide they need reprogramming and aren't ready for courtship.

I imagine they have been trained to confess to any "worldly" thoughts or feelings -- jealousy, ambition, any desire to experience any aspect of secular life, and then I would imagine, just as you suggest, those admissions are used by the parents to decide they need "guidance" via JTTH or being told to make a special focus on "contentment" or whatever that will squelch those [perfectly normal] thoughts.

[Cone]

Anna posted this picture of the 4 year olds. Josie is so much smaller/shorter. :(

[slp]

I was a full term, 40 week baby, and when photographed next to any of my class mates in school, I was a LOT shorter than they were. I was just small. I weighed a lot less than the other kids as well.

Michelle is short, I believe I've read she's 5 ft 1 in. It's not truly surprising that any of the children could be short.

Just being short doesn't mean there's anything to :( over or be thinking Josie's 'behind' about. She could just be on the small side, like I was as a child.

[Trynn]

Yeah, but that in and of itself means nothing. I was ways short for my age, and I had no developmental delays.

[church_of_dog]

Not to mention that Josie JUST turned 4 whereas Jordyn is JUST about to turn 5. That almost-a-year difference is significant -- it's 25% of Josie's lifetime so far.

[Ellimenopy]

Jordyn is almost a full year older, and Mack is half a year older! Just because they're all legally four doesn't mean they're the same age. So being naturally small, plus younger, more than puts Josie within average, I would think. My cousin teaches kindergarten and she's got some kids that size in her class.

[marmalade]

Small correction: Mack is only two months older than Josie; she just turned 4 in early October. Also, Michelle is (or was) 5'3". Josie's just smaller than her siblings at the same age. Nothing wrong with that if she doesn't have other delays. Hell, I was always the shortest, except for a short time in 5th-7th grades when my early puberty put me at average for a while...until I stopped growing and everyone shot up to average adult heights, leaving me and my measly five feet self in the dust.

Some may argue ;) but I am in no way developmentally delayed. If anything, I was put in the "brainiac" classes and took them of my own accord in high school (before schools placed you there themselves).

eta: I was slightly premature, 36 weeks (I was told...adoptee), and only weighed 5 lbs. 3 oz., so I started much smaller than average, physically, and never caught up when all was said and done.

[Mama Mia]

Anna posted this picture of the 4 year olds. Josie is so much smaller/shorter. :(

And what the hell is wrong with that?

Is being taller somehow "better" ? If so, why?

As others have pointed out, Josie is the youngest of the 4 year olds, and even if she was the oldest, so what? If this were their 18 year old photo and Josie is 5'1", Mack is 5'4" and Jordyn is 5'7" would you think there's something worthy of a frowny face?

[Ellimenopy]

Small correction: Mack is only two months older than Josie; she just turned 4 in early October. Also, Michelle is (or was) 5'3". Josie's just smaller than her siblings at the same age. Nothing wrong with that if she doesn't have other delays. Hell, I was always the shortest, except for a short time in 5th-7th grades when my early puberty put me at average for a while...until I stopped growing and everyone shot up to average adult heights, leaving me and my measly five feet self in the dust.

Some may argue ;) but I am in no way developmentally delayed. If anything, I was put in the "brainiac" classes and took them of my own accord in high school (before schools placed you there themselves).

eta: I was slightly premature, 36 weeks (I was told...adoptee), and only weighed 5 lbs. 3 oz., so I started much smaller than average, physically, and never caught up when all was said and done.

Ahh... yes. I always forget cause I keep thinking of when Josie was *supposed* to be born. I, too, was a small kid. Never seemed to result in any ill effects for me, either. :wink-penguin:

[Ampak]

Anna posted this picture of the 4 year olds. Josie is so much smaller/shorter. :(

WTF is Mackynzie wearing? A sweater and tights? She was wearing a mini-skirt in one of the DC episodes last season, maybe they are turning fundie light. pants are a million times more modest than what she's wearing in that photo.

[ADoyle90815]

I was a full term, 40 week baby, and when photographed next to any of my class mates in school, I was a LOT shorter than they were. I was just small. I weighed a lot less than the other kids as well.

Michelle is short, I believe I've read she's 5 ft 1 in. It's not truly surprising that any of the children could be short.

Just being short doesn't mean there's anything to :( over or be thinking Josie's 'behind' about. She could just be on the small side, like I was as a child.

That's true, my niece who was also born full term at 40 weeks was the shortest girl on her 5 year old girl's soccer team this year, and in her case, it could be from her mom as my SIL is short as an adult. There's also a chance that my niece won't always be the shortest girl in her class, as that's what happened with my family, where some of us kept growing throughout high school.

[Lillybee]

Will poor Jordyn ever have a birthday that she doesn't have to share with JOSIE?

[Patsy]

Will poor Jordyn ever have a birthday that she doesn't have to share with JOSIE?

I don't think poor Jer is likely to have many he won't have to share with Jed, or Jana with JD for that matter.

[Evilbad]

Josiah was also smaller than his brothers at that age. I swear certain posters just want something to be wrong with Josie so that they can point out how horrible her parents are. She's just little. Good lord.