Food stamp fiasco

[fun2beme]

I'm sure the fundies will be all over this story. Some many things to judge about - greed, waste, dishonesty, flaws in system, the ebil government not being able to fix its own problems, welfare abuse, etc.

I'm not excusing the behavior of those who took advantage but am looking forward to fundie posts on this. :popcorn2:

gma.yahoo.com/walmart-shelves-emptied-food-stamp-shopping-spree-171042474--abc-news-topstories.html

[Savoring Samsara]

How sad that we live in a society where people feel so uncertain about where their next good meal might come from that when the opportunity arises, they feel that they have no other choice but to grab more food than anyone could possibly consume before it goes bad because even if a bunch of it goes to waste at least they've maximized the amount of time in which they have enough. A great way to keep this sort of thing from happening is to make sure that everyone has a minimum amount of food and income stability in life to begin with.

Potentially related for those who might wonder about the psychology behind this (not breaking the link because it's just Cracked): www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-ha ... g-up-poor/

[bekkah]

Sadly, people abuse systems that are meant to help them and those programs then get a bad name from people who abuse it. I think people have to realize that food is expensive and we subsidize farmers a lot. I think Walmart needs to be held accountable as well as the individuals who abused the system. I don't know if throwing them in jail is the answer but these people obviously have food security issues.

I found a map that shows food stamp percentages by state. La is deep red. Its interesting to see the deep south to have such a concentration.

Here is information on the racial breakdown of food stamps. It also has party leanings. Not breaking the link because its pew research.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/12/the-politics-and-demographics-of-food-stamp-recipients/

Until we as a country have a higher min wage, we will not be reducing the number of people on these programs. It is very hard to make ends meet and to be worried about money. Most people live this way. Some people have a family safety net and they can rely on them for assistance. I am scared for the cuts to happen in November and the effects I will see on kids.

[Stephanie66]

How is WalMart not partially responsible? Other stores stopped taking EBT when they learned about the outage. The rule is $50 per customer, per day during an outage. WalMart was the ONLY grocer that both continued to accept EBT AND let them spend whatever they wanted.

And most of the food that they can't eat will likely be sold to neighbors or relatives on the cheap. I know that happens (occasionally) with WIC food/formula.

[mrs]

Here is a link to a news report with video:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XogbKRnZbhM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXogbKRnZbhM .

[Buzzard]

The whole situation is going to be very complicated. Walmart HAD to have known that they were allowing purchases greater than the likely balance but didnt care. I can understand the "we dont want children hungry" statement - thats why most places allowed $50 during the outage. Allowing the unlimited purchase created a rush which makes them, in my book, complicit.

Now... what to do with the shoppers... People know how much money is on their card. If they went over by $20 I wouldnt be upset, but those that went over by hundreds... I think they need to be charged and prosecuted. If the bank made a deposit error in my favor and I withdrew the cash and ran I'd be charged with theft. I think this is analagous.

So, what happens? In the end walmart will get paid and the overspend will either be eaten by the government or, more likely, taken as a negative balance going forward. I can only hope that whatever they bought is enough to sustain the family through next month if thats the case. My guess is that much of it will be returned for store credit (to purchase unauthorized items), sold, or overeaten. I expect next month there will be stories of hungry children in that area.

I'd LOVE to see walmart step up and say "our bad, we accepted transactions knowing they were fraudulent" and eat the cost, but that wont happen.

[J'ean Skirt]

I'd LOVE to see walmart step up and say "our bad, we accepted transactions knowing they were fraudulent" and eat the cost, but that wont happen.

And it wouldn't even cost Walmart that much money, y'know? It would be a MAJOR bit of goodwill.

But they won't do it.

[doggie]

of course my right wingnut brother is all over this.

his typical post

maybe you are not seeing what i am trying to say we have caused the situation we are in by making sure they never have to be responsible for themselves and that in turn erodes there since of self reliance and there morals suffer also and there since of self worth since welfare started the poverty rate has stayed the same no change with trillions spent on it and if you look at the chart showing the poverty rate you would notice it had been dropping since the end of WWII but stopped dropping when the welfare system went in place and look at the inner cities and tell me just how well the people are doing due to them living off the government

[Stephanie66]

I want to correct his grammar, but that would be rude.

The poverty rate is unchanged because minimum wage has not kept up with the cost of living, and manufacturing jobs are fairly non-existent. It used to be that a kid could graduate high school and work in factories or slaughterhouses or whatever and make a decent, living wage. I grew up near Hormel (pre-strike) and men pretty much supported their families working there. My neighbor had seven kids, all raised by Hormel wages. Now? Hormel is in trouble for using illegal immigrants quite regularly, because no one will do that nasty job for the $9 an hour they pay.

[already hungover]

of course my right wingnut brother is all over this.

his typical post

....,,,,,;;;;::::!!!!!????

There's some punctuation, tell your brother he can borrow it.

[doggie]

....,,,,,;;;;::::!!!!!????

There's some punctuation, tell your brother he can borrow it.

his logic is even worse.

[TeaNCrackers]

How sad that we live in a society where people feel so uncertain about where their next good meal might come from that when the opportunity arises, they feel that they have no other choice but to grab more food than anyone could possibly consume before it goes bad because even if a bunch of it goes to waste at least they've maximized the amount of time in which they have enough.

I call bullshit.

Maybe some, a very slight some, were doing this because they felt uncertain about their next meal but I bet that the majority of them were greedy fucks that figured a way to game the system.

Shame on Walmart for letting it happen and then complain about it, but shame on those people for being dishonest.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I call bullshit.

Maybe some, a very slight some, were doing this because they felt uncertain about their next meal but I bet that the majority of them were greedy fucks that figured a way to game the system.

Shame on Walmart for letting it happen and then complain about it, but shame on those people for being dishonest.

I agree, if it were visa instead of EBT they would have loaded up on big screen tvs. Free stuff! They didn't care that nothing is actually free. Very disappointing, this is why people think all people receiving aid are entitled and lazy. It only hurts the people who really need it.

[Stephanie66]

And this was, likely, a tiny percentage of the people who receive aid.

I really believe Walmart shares some fault here. Other stores didn't allow it. Walmart shouldn't benefit because they did.

[BalconySmoker]

The Matt Walsh blog went full jackass and wrote up some post about how ALL people using food stamps are stealing. He used this particular instance as a springboard for that whole post. He literally said that people on food stamps were stealing food out of the mouths of middle-class children.

I wanted to comment on his blog and tear him to shreds. Another part of me wanted to bawl my eyes out. I've been the person on food stamps in the past. It's humiliating enough working 2 jobs and barely having enough gas money to drive to either one. Much less feed yourself (or your kids). I remember the cruel comments, the dirty looks. I remember shopping at Wal-mart at 4am to avoid the judgement of pulling out my LINK card at the cash register during rush hour.

I wasn't ungrateful, but I was terrified that one day something would happen to make the LINK card go away before I had increased my income. I was terrified that if I lost my food stamps, that CPS would come and take my kids because I couldn't afford to feed them much more than PB&J on my own income.

He wondered out loud why people don't go to the church for assistance. My God, why WOULD I go to the church for assistance? So they can insult me for being poor, and then maybe help me? At least when I had to be "dependent" upon the government they didn't kick me while I was already down.

[FloraKitty35]

How ironic given that Wal Mart is one of the biggest Welfare Queens.

[theologygeek]

Poverty does strange things to some people. This is no different from the child adopted from an orphanage who stockpiles food in their room, when they have been told many times that they can eat whenever they want. It's not that these people don't know where their next meal is coming from. It's more to feel secure. Poverty does a job on the brain.

Walmart does need to suck up the costs though. They allowed it to happen.

[sunshine]

....,,,,,;;;;::::!!!!!????

There's some punctuation, tell your brother he can borrow it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Funny.

[sunshine]

Clearly, they were in need. Someone walked away with 700 dollars in groceries. I hope there account do not get frozen due to their excessive shopping.

[pattygbucks]

He wondered out loud why people don't go to the church for assistance. My God, why WOULD I go to the church for assistance? So they can insult me for being poor, and then maybe help me? At least when I had to be "dependent" upon the government they didn't kick me while I was already down.

This is a sincere question...do you think asking about the circumstances of your family is insulting you for being poor? I truly am wondering HOW a church food pantry would be insulting...I have volunteered in some and wonder if I am missing something.

In Beavercreek, Ohio there is an organization called "Feed the Creek". K-8th grade children on the free and reduced lunch program are given a bag of groceries to meet meal needs on the weekend. This is run though a network of local churches, Beavercreek Nazarene, is the primary church coordinator. How is this type of program insulting? (again a sincere question...not snarky)

[lilwriter85]

There are a lot of great churches that run food pantry programs or will assist people in need by helping them pay utility or other bills. There are a few churches out there that might give someone a hard time if they ask for assistance. ZsuZsu Anderson once complained on her blog or on FB about a woman who asked the strip mall church for financial help. On the exmormon.org forum, there were a few posters who mentioned incidents of LDS bishops being assholes to people who asked for help with food or bills. I can see where some people might be scared to ask a church for help.

I haven't looked at the Matt Walsh blog entry about food stamps. Many people do push the whole "people should get help from their churches and private charities and churches should be stepping instead of the government." Churches can only do so much and there are some churches that are barely scraping by to operate.

[slickcat79]

I call bullshit.

Maybe some, a very slight some, were doing this because they felt uncertain about their next meal but I bet that the majority of them were greedy fucks that figured a way to game the system.

Shame on Walmart for letting it happen and then complain about it, but shame on those people for being dishonest.

You know, I wonder about the "greedy fuck" mentality. It's one thing to be genuinely food insecure, to not know where your next meal will come from sometimes, to have to depend on food pantries and dumpster diving to make ends meet. It's another to not have quite that level of insecurity, to be able to get food pretty much all the time, but for it to be so...boring. And frustrating.

When you have to eat beans mixed with white rice because it's cheap and it's the only thing you have. When you have to account for every slice of bread in a loaf because you can't afford to throw anything away. When you get out of the store and realize you have to return something you bought because you won't be able to afford bus fare without that money. So you're working and/or going to school and living like that for months on end and it SUCKS SO MUCH.

Then all of a sudden some random glitch happens and you have the ability to buy anything you want. You can buy cookies, you can buy soda, you can buy fresh meat. It's like a miracle. Which doesn't excuse clearly cheating the system, but I can understand the mentality. I don't consider myself a greedy fuck most of the time, but if that happened to me, probably the main thing stopping me from going apeshit would be the fact that it might influence my future benefits.

[fun2beme]

The Catholic churches in my area actively support local food pantries, hot meal programs, and a homeless shelter. This is on a volunteer basis so I'm assuming the people who assist do so because they care. My old parish used to collect over 300 15*10" pan casseroles monthly. But I live close to Baltimore so perhaps people are more moved to help since the poverty is much more obvious than the struggling family down the road.

Granted, as a Catholic, I can make a long list of faults in the church, but have to admit that there is strong ministry to the poor here. :)

[BalconySmoker]

"This is a sincere question...do you think asking about the circumstances of your family is insulting you for being poor? I truly am wondering HOW a church food pantry would be insulting...I have volunteered in some and wonder if I am missing something."

Yeah, you are missing something. Sorry, I was pissed off at his post so I wasn't clear.

I'm not talking about churches asking about our financial circumstances. That's totally reasonable. I'm talking about people like Walsh who called people on welfare thieves. Not just the people who went hogwild at Walmart (who clearly are thieves) but ANYONE who uses food stamps, WIC etc. He specifically said that all people on welfare are stealing food from the mouths of other children.

Matt Walsh is a a very popular Christian blogger. How could I read his blog, and not assume that this was the attitude I was going to get should I ask a church for help? Even if I had never read his blog, I unfortunately have experience in this area personally.

I think I mentioned in a thread somewhere else that I used to work in a slaughterhouse. The reason I ended up there, is because after 6 months post-partum, my first husband left me (a homemaker) and our newborn son. The reason? I hadn't lost the pregnancy weight fast enough and he was struggling to remain attracted to me at 20 lbs overweight. So he drained our bank account, and left me a note saying he was sick of my lack of motivation to lose weight. Somehow that was an example of my "neglect" for him. I was left with no money, a baby and in a town where I had no family support. Oh yeah, and our rent was due in a week. I tried to file for child support, but he quit his job and worked under the table to avoid paying out.

I found the slaughterhouse job, which paid enough. But it takes a few weeks to get your first check, I still needed rent money, gas money, etc..and our landlord was not interested in granting me an extension. So I went to our Bishop for help, and he told me to try and sell stuff for money and get back to him. Which I did, and I was able to get half of what I needed by selling clothes, electronics, etc to consignment and pawn shops. I went back to him again, and he chided me for not tithing on those items I had sold (WTF?) and then went on to "counsel" me on winning back my cheating, coward of a husband by having more sex with him and losing the baby weight. He never did provide me with assistance. Neither did the elder at the non-denominational church in town who quizzed me about my sex life as if I were some sort of prostitute and "counseled" me to not get pregnant out of wedlock again (even though I hadn't the first damn time.)

Eventually, a UU church in the town 20 miles away took care of me. I was very grateful for their assistance. But in my experience, Christian churches are willing to offer help, but only if they deem you worthy of it.

Which is very Christlike, by the way.

[shaylahc]

I can't believe people are making excuses for the looters (because that is technically what they are doing). I guess when people loot during riots we should all feel sorry for them, because they can't help it that they can't afford these nice things, and the world would be a much better place if we all had nice things, blah blah blah.

Please.

What these people did was wrong. They KNEW they were cheating the system and did it anyway. I can understand if someone went and bought a few steaks, maybe some lobster, or other nice things. But shopping cart after shopping cart, thousands of dollars worth, more food than they could eat? No. They were going to sell that food. They knew exactly what they were doing, they felt entitled to it, and that is a pretty crappy mentality to have.

I do think Walmart should have shut it down. They knew it was a glitch, and were hoping they could get uncle Sam to pay.