Avoid Fooling Around--Get Married NOW!

[GeoBQn]

A young woman who loves making out with her boyfriend asked Lori for advice on avoiding premarital sex. Lori's response? Get married NOW--even if you are not financially stable as a couple and your parents have to support you for the first several years (and several children.) Also, keep your engagement shorter than three months, because it will be even harder to avoid premarital sex once marriage is within sight.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/10/fooling-around-before-marriage.html

This doesn't sound like a recipe for disaster at all . . .

[Maggie Mae]

No.

Just. No.

[louisa05]

That is pretty standard fundagelical thought these days. I have even seen materials advocating that Christian schools allow married students in their high schools as marriage is considered the best way to "prevent" premarital sex. When I taught in Christian school, I regularly had kids who were engaged as seniors and married right after graduation. Many admitted they were only doing it so they could have sex. And FB spying in recent years has revealed that many of them are divorced now, some more than once.

My mom worked with a fundie woman whose daughter got pregnant while engaged. Her explanation was that "they just couldn't wait" and it was his parents' fault for encouraging them to have a year long engagement so they could finish college first. She wanted them to get married within a few months of dating as her other two kids had. One met and married his wife in a four month span. We suspect that one was a courtship scenario.

[TrueRebel1]

That's pretty much what just happened to my husband's younger sister. Her ATI parents influenced her enough that because she wanted to sleep with her boyfriend/fiance, but knew that was a no-no, she went ahead and hurriedly got married even though she and her guy are super young, and not financially or emotionally ready for marriage. It's barely been 2 months since their wedding, and I already forsee their marriage ending rather soon. :-(

What I've learned from fundies: Marrying so you can have sex is a stupid, stupid idea.

[lilwriter85]

I agree it is a recipe for disaster. Yes, poor people do start off their marriages that way, but finances do cause problems for some people. ETA: I think this is just another posting that shows Lori being out of touch with the financial situations of other people. I think it is great for parents to help with education costs, but you can find many that wouldn't want to deeply support their adult children and families for years.

[infooverload]

The old joke of marrying so you can have sex, makes about as much sense as buying a plane so you can get free peanuts, comes to my mind.

[Hane]

This was a pretty standard Catholic thing back in the day. I had a short engagement because of the You Must Walk Down The Aisle A Virgin[tm][/tm] thing. The marrriage lasted six and a half years.

That said, I have several friends who did the same thing I did and are still happily married 40+ years later. A generation or two ago, we tended to get married younger and have shorter engagements and less elaborate weddings, and far fewer of us lived together before marriage. Even in the early '70s, though, the virginal bride thing was fading fast.

[twinmama]

So much better to just get married and have some sex then divorce, than to have premarital sex right??? Not enough :wtf: s in the world.

And I'm a-okay with parents helping out a couple or family that found themselves in hard times after marriage, but to go into marriage and parenthood knowing you can't afford it is just such a bad idea. Do the parents who are supporting their child, their child's spouse and their child's child really prefer that to their child having premarital sex???

[Ariel]

This is pretty terrible advice. I've known a handful of high-school mates who went down this path. Which is also why I know people who are already divorced before their 25th birthday.

But, I appreciate that she states that (heterosexual) lust and sex are natural and that not engaging in pre-marital sex is really hard. I feel like a lot of fundies act like not engaging in pre-marital sex is easy peasy and it's only terrible, base, animal-like people that can't abstain.

But, at the same time, this is still fucking terrible advice so it doesn't matter :lol:

[YPestis]

I know a lady who is a devout catholic who is trying to stop her son from marrying his girlfriend until they are financially secure. Her son and girlfriend have been dating for six months and she suspects they want to have sex, hence pushing for marriage despite having no income (both are in college). She wants her son to at least finish college before marrying. I also know of a college friend who was very eager to get married and have kids but was told by her family that she would need to graduate from college first or she would have to pay for the wedding herself. She was also big on the no sex before marriage thing, although I think she was more motivated by the idea of marriage itself rather than being able to have sex. In those cases, while there is a heavy pressure to maintain virginity until marriage, the parents were smart enough to realize other considerations were equally important.

I don't believe in a strict "you must be a virgin on your wedding day" rule precisely because it puts heavy burden on people to marry in haste. In this day and age, quickie marriages will just lead to quickie divorces. In the past, divorce was so heavily stigmatized, and marriages were typically so focused on raising a gaggle of kids that couples who disliked each other probably just stuck around because it was tolerable. Now, divorce is common and married couples can look forward to years of living alone without children, so I can see more conflicts, and more people deciding divorce is the only way out. Plus, since it takes far longer to be financially stable, we would be forcing couples to wait to have sex well into their 20's (at least) because that's how long it takes for most people to financially support a family.

I think Lori, and fundies in general are so enamored with marriage that they neglect all the other factors that go into a good relationship. A commitment to each other means little when you are constantly fighting, always broke, and burdened with children. If Lori wants to encourage marriage, then she should stress financial security, birth control, emotional maturity. Instead, she's telling a horny couple to go ahead and commit to each other for life, and ignore all the other issues that surround a good marriage. I see this going well......

[ThatSnark]

That is pretty standard fundagelical thought these days. I have even seen materials advocating that Christian schools allow married students in their high schools as marriage is considered the best way to "prevent" premarital sex. When I taught in Christian school, I regularly had kids who were engaged as seniors and married right after graduation. Many admitted they were only doing it so they could have sex. And FB spying in recent years has revealed that many of them are divorced now, some more than once.

My mom worked with a fundie woman whose daughter got pregnant while engaged. Her explanation was that "they just couldn't wait" and it was his parents' fault for encouraging them to have a year long engagement so they could finish college first. She wanted them to get married within a few months of dating as her other two kids had. One met and married his wife in a four month span. We suspect that one was a courtship scenario.

This explains something to me. My niece and nephew are at a K-12 Christian school, and they've been in quite a few weddings of schoolmates (as flower girl/ringbearer) -- I have been wondering for the last five years just where on earth my brother's family was meeting all these engaged people, and they're all from the school. It did not dawn on me that high schoolers were getting married! My brain/good sense sees that there needs to be a little life space and breathing room between high school and marriage, whether that's college, trade school, or getting started in a career. Holy flower basket, you all. Unreal. :pink-shock:

[Hisey]

I find it hard to believe that a young woman went up to Lori and said, "I love making out with my boyfriend but I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm afraid I'm going to lose my purity. What do you advise, Lori?

[lilwriter85]

I find it hard to believe that a young woman went up to Lori and said, "I love making out with my boyfriend but I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm afraid I'm going to lose my purity. What do you advise, Lori?

I do too. But I think Lori manages to reel young women are on the dim side to mentor. I'm not trying to be mean there. Lori admitted before on the blog that women and couples at their church have rejected her and Ken as mentors. I think the people who rejected the Alexanders caught onto them right away, while others at the church don't.

[louisa05]

This explains something to me. My niece and nephew are at a K-12 Christian school, and they've been in quite a few weddings of schoolmates (as flower girl/ringbearer) -- I have been wondering for the last five years just where on earth my brother's family was meeting all these engaged people, and they're all from the school. It did not dawn on me that high schoolers were getting married! My brain/good sense sees that there needs to be a little life space and breathing room between high school and marriage, whether that's college, trade school, or getting started in a career. Holy flower basket, you all. Unreal. :pink-shock:

The school I taught at vetoed the idea of allowing married teens to attend. There was a couple that dated when he was a senior and she was a junior and their parents decided when he was about to graduate that they should get married so they would not have sex before. All four parents came to the school to make sure the girl would be able to finish there if already married as a senior. The school wisely said no. And, shockingly (or, you know, not at all), the couple broke up in September of her senior year when he was at college. They both married other people much later.

[Minerva]

Not that the "staying a virgin" thing is all it's chocked up to be, but when it was hammered into my head, it was because you don't want to end up with a baby while you're still in high school, and you don't want to have a baby with someone you don't know extremely well, and you don't want to have a baby before you and your partner can afford one. Getting married really soon just defeats the whole purpose of waiting.

[salex]

One of the big whines in christian radio is that evangelicals and fundies (i am not 100% clear on the difference/overlap) have divorce rates as high or higher than non religious people, and for years the push to "get married rather than fornicate" has been part of the cause-- early marriage so often means early divorce.

I think this is part of the push for "obey, no matter what an ass he is" and "Marriage doesn't have to be happy--it is your role in life and it may be god teaching you a lesson if you suffer" and all the other attendant BS like "dying daily to self for your marriage" etc.

Plus, if the women are not educated enough to work, if they aren't allowed to work outside the home, and if they are encouraged to have as many kids as possible, it makes it harder and harder for either spouse to divorce and afford to live/pay child support.

So, marry early so you don't fornicate, hate your life for years to come, for Jesus sake.

Make life miserable here so heaven seems more attractive.

[GolightlyGrrl]

I'm sure marrying young and poor worked out for Lori and Ken because Lori's dad is a doctor who can take care of his special snowflake. Not all of us are that fortunate.

[louisa05]

Plus, if the women are not educated enough to work, if they aren't allowed to work outside the home, and if they are encouraged to have as many kids as possible, it makes it harder and harder for either spouse to divorce and afford to live/pay child support.

One girl I taught friended me on Facebook a few years ago. She married her high school boyfriend a few months after graduation and had four kids by the time she was 25. She told me that it is really strange for her to relate to most people because she has never had a paying job in her life. Their parents supported them while he went to college and she never even had a part time job in high school or before having kids.

If something happens to the husband and the parents cannot support her and her kids...

[GeoBQn]

My husband's aunt and uncle just announced that they are separating after 44 years of marriage. They came from a fairly liberal Jewish background, but they got married after knowing each other for a very short period of time. The aunt then found herself trapped in a marriage to a man with a domineering personality, who discouraged her from working and following her own dreams, and who had a much bigger appetite for taking financial risks than she did. She tried to put up with it because she came from a country where women were encouraged to be submissive, but she was miserable almost the entire time and she has finally reached her breaking point.

Everybody knows of couples who got married quickly and remained happy. My husband's own grandparents got married after knowing each other for a month, and they were married for 60 years before the grandfather died. But every couple needs to determine how long is long enough to really get to know each other and find out if they have compatible goals and values. They shouldn't get married quickly out of outside pressure to avoid premarital sex and make their relationship "G-dly."

[guidedbybobafett]

It's not really a gray area for me. I think marrying as a virgin is a bad idea, and if religious nuts are allowed to tell me that I should have married before committing excessive acts of boning, I feel it's my duty to let people know that ~marriage~ and sex have pretty much nothing to do with one another. I lived with my boyfriend for five years before marrying him and it was the best thing I've ever done.

[louisa05]

It's not really a gray area for me. I think marrying as a virgin is a bad idea, and if religious nuts are allowed to tell me that I should have married before committing excessive acts of boning, I feel it's my duty to let people know that ~marriage~ and sex have pretty much nothing to do with one another. I lived with my boyfriend for five years before marrying him and it was the best thing I've ever done.

I think it is never wise to assume that what worked for you is what will work for everyone else in the world. I didn't live with my husband before marriage and we have a great marriage even with a series of catastrophes all around us.

The problem with the whole "get married just to have sex" mentality is that it encourages very young people to marry without considering all of the implications of the decision. Most people in their late teens and early twenties aren't even sure what they want from life yet and it is not the best time to commit yourself to a life long relationship. You have to know who you are on your own in order to have a mature relationship. And that is true whether you live together for five years first or never live together until after the wedding.

[Jana814]

I have to say that I'm 33 and if I found the man of my dreams tomorrow & started dating him I would want to be engage rather quickly mostly cause I know what I want & what I don't want in a relationship.

[Carla Bruni]

My parents are divorced, but (or maybe because of this) I take marriage very, VERY seriously. It does not compute for me how I can be expected to commit for LIFE to someone I haven't had sex with. Or lived with, for that matter. For all the "well it worked for us!" stories, there's at least 10 times as many stories of ruined lives, ugly divorces, marital abuse, and traumatized kids.

My grandparents, both virgins when they got hitched, were married for 48 very happy years before they died, but they were soulmates in the classical sense of the term. Many even in their generation suffered through unhappy marriages, so that whole adage about family values in the 50s is bullshit. My mom married my dad after I was born (and he was pressured into coming back by family acquaintances), and they had a terrible marriage and a very ugly divorce; they also hadn't lived together beforehand. If they had, she would've never married him.

I don't buy clothes without trying them on, and some weirdo expects me to jump into a lifelong commitment with somebody I haven't even seen nekkid?! Yeahno.

[Ariel]

I think it is never wise to assume that what worked for you is what will work for everyone else in the world. I didn't live with my husband before marriage and we have a great marriage even with a series of catastrophes all around us.

The problem with the whole "get married just to have sex" mentality is that it encourages very young people to marry without considering all of the implications of the decision. Most people in their late teens and early twenties aren't even sure what they want from life yet and it is not the best time to commit yourself to a life long relationship. You have to know who you are on your own in order to have a mature relationship. nd that is true whether you live together for five years first or never live together until after the wedding.

I think this is so important. In my personal experience, and from watching friends, when I was younger I had a tendency to mold myself to the person I was in a relationship with. This was partially because I didn't know better, and partially because I just didn't know who I was. As a result, it was always a relief when that relationship ended and I got to 'reset'.

[Verin Sedai]

I had a pseudo-courtship and did the first kiss at the altar thing with my husband, and I have to say for the pile of crazy it could have been, we escaped it relatively unscathed and have a really good marriage. And one of the biggest things I can attribute that to (beyond the grace of God and the fact that my husband and I worked our butts off in premarital counseling learning how to argue with respect) is the fact that my FIL told my husband to stop thinking with his little head and not marry me until we were both out of college. We had to slow down and really decide whether we were in it for the long haul, after we'd been together for a while and the twitterpated hormones had died down.

If any girl came to me with that question I would never tell her to just get married because it's all just going to magically be all right. It irritates me that fundies are often such pushovers when it comes to sexual issues, as though somehow sexual temptation is somehow not included in the category of temptation that God will help you overcome. It's hard but not impossible.