Avoid Fooling Around--Get Married NOW!

[EmiGirl]

I had a pseudo-courtship and did the first kiss at the altar thing with my husband, and I have to say for the pile of crazy it could have been, we escaped it relatively unscathed and have a really good marriage. And one of the biggest things I can attribute that to (beyond the grace of God and the fact that my husband and I worked our butts off in premarital counseling learning how to argue with respect) is the fact that my FIL told my husband to stop thinking with his little head and not marry me until we were both out of college. We had to slow down and really decide whether we were in it for the long haul, after we'd been together for a while and the twitterpated hormones had died down.

If any girl came to me with that question I would never tell her to just get married because it's all just going to magically be all right. It irritates me that fundies are often such pushovers when it comes to sexual issues, as though somehow sexual temptation is somehow not included in the category of temptation that God will help you overcome. It's hard but not impossible.

This was be and my husband. We didn't kiss until the alter. It was awkward and humiliating. To be honest, right now (almost four years later) our marriage is still awkward and there are many days where I honestly don't think I can take it anymore.

[snuggles911]

This is very common fundie advice. Sunshine Mary once had a post called "Why I hope my daughters will be teenage brides." You can find it on her archive list. I don't have time to look it up now but I remember her saying that ideally they should marry at 18 or 19, and that it would be OK if they needed their parents to help support them.

In her mind, girls can't control their crotches, especially in the presence of alpha males, and young marriage is a good way to prevent premarital sex.

I couldn't imagine moving into my parents' basement with my hubby, or worse yet, my old room.

[linnea27]

As a parent, there is no way in hell I would financially support my kids if they chose to marry before they were ready just so they could have sex.

I would buy my kid a pack of condoms though

[GeoBQn]

From the comments:

Lindsay Harold · 6 hours ago

I disagree. Yes, all things being equal, it's better not to rush into marriage. But when you throw in the issue of sexual immorality, all things aren't equal. I would rather my daughters marry a nearly complete stranger (so long as he's a good Christian man) and learn to work out their differences within the commitment of marriage than to fall into sexual sin, taint their future marriage, and break the heart of God. Sin is that serious. Sin corrupts everything it touches, especially the minds and souls of those involved. Of course, I would much rather my daughters marry men they know well and have a good marriage from the start rather than a rocky beginning. But given a choice between fornication and a rocky beginning due to marrying too soon, I'll take the latter.

It really is only a matter of time before the fundies start doing arranged marriages between children who have never met each other. Can't have them meeting--meeting might lead to premarital sex!

[louisa05]

From the comments:

It really is only a matter of time before the fundies start doing arranged marriages between children who have never met each other. Can't have them meeting--meeting might lead to premarital sex!

I don't understand when or why sexual sins became the only ones anyone is worried about. Who cares if your kid is a bully, or self-centered, or uses people, or is uncharitable or dishonest...as long as s/he is a virgin until the wedding night it is all okay. :angry-banghead:

[DefraudedByPlaid]

I know many Christians who waited to have sex before marriage and seem happy - not fakely so, not perfectly, but happy. I'm NOT advocating for rushing into marriage at all, just agreeing with some other posters that the whole virginity thing doesn't doom one to an unsatisfying marriage (though it doesn't guarantee a satisfying one either, as many of the fundies discussed here appear to demonstrate).

What I don't understand is why fundies aren't more worried about adultery. Rushing into marriage with someone who doesn't suit you must make it harder to remain faithful later on when the honeymoon is over. I would think they'd see having an affair as worse than fornication. It's odd to me how so many fundies and fundie-lites act like purity is all about how you act before marriage, rather than a lifelong component of the lifestyle.

[RachelB]

When I was 20, I was pretty sure I was dating the person I was going to marry. (Never mind that neither of us knew how to communicate like adults.) We admired each other, we found each other fascinating, we could talk (or kiss) for hours without getting bored. We broke up three times. Two of the times we got back together, because we were so miserable apart.

It took four years after our final break-up to feel at peace about it, but parting was the right decision. We were heading in different directions, and we wouldn't have been happy together in the long term. We still admire each other as people, but the trait that made me fall for him-- the fact that he was infectiously playful-- is long gone.

I do not regret not having married him. I do occasionally regret that we never had sex, as I suspect it would have been a lot of fun, and I was at that point holding out for The Right Moment (not necessarily marriage).

[lilwriter85]

I'm sure marrying young and poor worked out for Lori and Ken because Lori's dad is a doctor who can take care of his special snowflake. Not all of us are that fortunate.

I get the feeling that Ken comes from an upper middle class background. I recall that Lori had been working as teacher when they first married. I agree, Lori and Ken's situation probably worked out because of her dad and/or his side of the family. Lori doesn't realize that a good portion of her fundie fangirls, are living different lives from her financially because their families are larger and/or their husbands don't make a lot of money.

[already hungover]

One of my best friends came from a fundy-light family. Last winter his parents celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary. My friend turned 25 in July. For 25 years he'd thought nothing of it, until last year, when he confronted his mom and asked if she had been pregnant when she got married. She burst into tears and told him never to tell anyone, then pretended that it was actually her 26th anniversary. Seriously.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I have to say that I'm 33 and if I found the man of my dreams tomorrow & started dating him I would want to be engage rather quickly mostly cause I know what I want & what I don't want in a relationship.

Yup, at 28 met my husband (he was 33) and he knew my expectations if we fell in love. Engaged within 11 months, married within 18 months.

Had dated a couple of guys for a couple of years but didn't feel 'it'

[HomegirlRuby]

Great advice Lori. How could this possibly go wrong?

Crazy. Monster.

[docmom]

In the Olden days it made sense to marry young and marry before you had sex because reliable forms of contraception were not available and it really was difficult to have a child out of wedlock. Many of the societal norms back then actually did protect women- if you are married your husband can't say the baby isn't his and must support you. Of course, now that we do have access to highly reliable contraception this whole ideal breaks down. It's now much more adventageous to wait to get married (financial security, making sure you marry a compatible person, etc) and society has very, very quickly changed. The fundies don't like it because being able to control who you marry and how many children you have has been the single greatest factor in empowering women. And they don't like empowered women.

[louisa05]

Yup, at 28 met my husband (he was 33) and he knew my expectations if we fell in love. Engaged within 11 months, married within 18 months.

Had dated a couple of guys for a couple of years but didn't feel 'it'

I don't think that 18 months from meeting to marriage is particularly fast, though. With some fundies, we're talking about three or four months, possibly less. That friend of my mother's told her in early June that she didn't like it that her son didn't know any "marriageable" girls. But by mid-August, he was engaged and they were married at the end of September. Plus, he was 20 and the bride was barely 18. That is totally different than a couple together for 18 months marrying with a year and half together at late 20s/early 30s.

[FearLyss]

I don't know why anyone would ever want to avoid folling around, that is my absolute favorite part!

While I know I could never marry anyone (more than likely this sentence should end there) I have not lived with, had lots of sex with, went through hardshipswith, etc . . . I do think that it could work for some. My way isn't right for everyone. I know a couple who got married as virgins (actually I only know she was) who are doing very well now and are happy (this couple has also decided to be childless- so not fundie). They knew eachother well and for a while prior to the engagement. She just wanted to remain a virgin because that felt right for her. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Now, if it were my sister, niece, or friend, I'd suggest doing it my way but I think it is a deeply personal choice and it has to feel right for the person in it. My gripe with fundies is that it isn't a choice, virginity is expected and anything other than is less than.

[slickcat79]

You see this line of thinking among a lot among the prolife crowd, at least the ones who believe those slutty sluts should just keep their legs closed and we would never need abortion :roll: Lots of people seem to argue that it's SO EASY to maintain "purity" until your wedding...then you find out that they were married at 17 and on their second kid by 20.

[twinmama]

This is very common fundie advice. Sunshine Mary once had a post called "Why I hope my daughters will be teenage brides."

OH MY GOD. I think my article would be "Why I hope my sons won't marry until they at least have graduate degrees."

[salex]

In the Olden days it made sense to marry young and marry before you had sex because reliable forms of contraception were not available and it really was difficult to have a child out of wedlock. Many of the societal norms back then actually did protect women- if you are married your husband can't say the baby isn't his and must support you. Of course, now that we do have access to highly reliable contraception this whole ideal breaks down. It's now much more adventageous to wait to get married (financial security, making sure you marry a compatible person, etc) and society has very, very quickly changed. The fundies don't like it because being able to control who you marry and how many children you have has been the single greatest factor in empowering women. And they don't like empowered women.

Bolded is the truth and why they don't like education for women, jobs for women, moving out on your own for women or disagreeing for women.

What kind of pathetic men these men must be!

Go back far enough and in Europe, pregnant brides were more common (living with and having a kid with the spouse to be and being pregnant when getting married was also mentioned) for a couple of reasons, generally related to proof of fertility when multiple kids meant more workers for the family. (rural areas)

I can't put my hands on my source for this right now, but I did a research into marriage and found it and believed it.

Husbands were the presumed and legal father of any child born within a marriage-- of course, father's "got" the kids if mothers wanted a divorce for a very long time, even in the USA early on. DNA testing changes all kinds of things, as does contraceptives. No more "her word against mine" when a cheek swab can give a definitive answer as to whose daddy is whose.

[Cognizant]

Okay, so I have a weird question pertaining to all of this. If two fundies rush into marriage in order to avoid premarital sex and then discover that they don't get along, can fundies get divorced?

[crazyforkate]

Okay, so I have a weird question pertaining to all of this. If two fundies rush into marriage in order to avoid premarital sex and then discover that they don't get along, can fundies get divorced?

Depends who you ask, but generally no. Among many fundies it's NO DIVORCE EVER, while some may allow for abuse.

[Verin Sedai]

The group I grew up in (fundie-lite with some more fundie tendencies) allowed for adultery or physical abuse. I knew a woman who stayed with a man who was at least verbally abusive (and probably physically too, though I never knew that for sure) for years, and only left him when she had proof of his affairs.

[darkplumaged]

I seem to have a knack for finding blogs written by women--who are always at least evangelical, if not fundie-lite--who got married anywhere from 18-20 and go on about it like the decision to marry at that age was purely driven by romance. "We we just SO IN LOVE!" "Two kids who were just crazy about each other." Puh-leeze. Under ordinary circumstances, no 18- to 20-year-old guy actually wants to get married in the near future. Those who choose to get married at that age do it because it is the only guilt-free way for them to have sex, but none of these bloggers will ever admit it.

[GeoBQn]

Depends who you ask, but generally no. Among many fundies it's NO DIVORCE EVER, while some may allow for abuse.

I think some groups also allow divorce if one spouse is a "non-believer," which somehow makes it better. Tabby from Plain Torah Keeper just left her husband. He had apparently been abusive for years, but she was only able to convince herself to leave when someone told her it was OK because he wasn't a Fake Jew/Mennonite believer like her.

[salex]

I think some groups also allow divorce if one spouse is a "non-believer," which somehow makes it better. Tabby from Plain Torah Keeper just left her husband. He had apparently been abusive for years, but she was only able to convince herself to leave when someone told her it was OK because he wasn't a Fake Jew/Mennonite believer like her.

It isn't even the no divorce ever, as much as the No Remarriage unless the other person was committing adultery. Some allow divorce without remarriage if the person is being abused. A few years ago on some radio ministry, there was a long explanation of how, if you had a divorce for any reason other than adultery and wanted to remarry, you had to wait until your former spouse was known to be sleeping with someone else, so that they had "committed adultery" and you were free to remarry. Then, it would be ok.

[moodygirl86]

One of my best friends came from a fundy-light family. Last winter his parents celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary. My friend turned 25 in July. For 25 years he'd thought nothing of it, until last year, when he confronted his mom and asked if she had been pregnant when she got married. She burst into tears and told him never to tell anyone, then pretended that it was actually her 26th anniversary. Seriously.

Bloody hell, most people wouldn't notice, let alone care!

Off-topic, but CrazyKate, I love the new avatar. Is that the "lovely horse" from Father Ted?

[rward]

Bolded is the truth and why they don't like education for women, jobs for women, moving out on your own for women or disagreeing for women.

What kind of pathetic men these men must be!

Go back far enough and in Europe, pregnant brides were more common (living with and having a kid with the spouse to be and being pregnant when getting married was also mentioned) for a couple of reasons, generally related to proof of fertility when multiple kids meant more workers for the family. (rural areas)

I can't put my hands on my source for this right now, but I did a research into marriage and found it and believed it.

Husbands were the presumed and legal father of any child born within a marriage-- of course, father's "got" the kids if mothers wanted a divorce for a very long time, even in the USA early on. DNA testing changes all kinds of things, as does contraceptives. No more "her word against mine" when a cheek swab can give a definitive answer as to whose daddy is whose.

At one point, all of Europe (more or less) was Catholic. There weren't nearly enough priests to go around, and the average person couldn't afford the fee charged to marry anyway. So, it was not at all uncommon for couples to live together for decades, save up money over that time, and then get married in front of their children and grandchildren when a priest happened to pass through the area.

Virginity was a prized thing only among nobility. Among the peasantry, it wasn't at all important.

ETA: There are a couple of places in Africa where traditionally girls leave their home village at 18 and don't come back until they have a baby. It proved their fertility and brought fresh DNA to the village, which prevented the deleterious effects of inbreeding.