Avoid Fooling Around--Get Married NOW!

[RosyDaisy]

Not that the "staying a virgin" thing is all it's chocked up to be, but when it was hammered into my head, it was because you don't want to end up with a baby while you're still in high school, and you don't want to have a baby with someone you don't know extremely well, and you don't want to have a baby before you and your partner can afford one. Getting married really soon just defeats the whole purpose of waiting.

This is why I didn't give up my V-card until after college. I was terrified of becoming pregnant and choices and responsibilities that come along with it. It wasn't a religious thing for me.

[veron1que]

The school I taught at vetoed the idea of allowing married teens to attend. There was a couple that dated when he was a senior and she was a junior and their parents decided when he was about to graduate that they should get married so they would not have sex before. All four parents came to the school to make sure the girl would be able to finish there if already married as a senior. The school wisely said no. And, shockingly (or, you know, not at all), the couple broke up in September of her senior year when he was at college. They both married other people much later.

I'm sorry, I know this is pages back, but WHAT!?

How on earth does a school administration have the right to refuse a student based on marital status?

[nokidsmom]

When I was 20, I was pretty sure I was dating the person I was going to marry. (Never mind that neither of us knew how to communicate like adults.) We admired each other, we found each other fascinating, we could talk (or kiss) for hours without getting bored. We broke up three times. Two of the times we got back together, because we were so miserable apart.

It took four years after our final break-up to feel at peace about it, but parting was the right decision. We were heading in different directions, and we wouldn't have been happy together in the long term. We still admire each other as people, but the trait that made me fall for him-- the fact that he was infectiously playful-- is long gone.

I do not regret not having married him. I do occasionally regret that we never had sex, as I suspect it would have been a lot of fun, and I was at that point holding out for The Right Moment (not necessarily marriage).

Not to get OT, but this sounds exactly like my first boyfriend, who I met while in high school, continued into the first year of college, broke up, got back together later in college only to break up again. At the end he wanted to get married but at that point I wasn't sure that was the right choice for me as much as I really cared for him.

I don't regret not marrying him either but I have to say I do regret not having sex with him because as the same as you, I suspect it would have been an amazingly good time. In fact of all my LT boyfriends before Mr. No, this is the one I regret not doing the deed with. The other one...meh. I can live.

[Carla Bruni]

You see this line of thinking among a lot among the prolife crowd, at least the ones who believe those slutty sluts should just keep their legs closed and we would never need abortion :roll: Lots of people seem to argue that it's SO EASY to maintain "purity" until your wedding...then you find out that they were married at 17 and on their second kid by 20.

This! I think I mentioned her before, but my mom had this friend... They met at a time when she was married and 6 mos pregnant by her husband and also, coincidentally, sleeping with her (also married) boss. She then got divorced and moved in with her boss, who was by then separated, but couldn't get a Catholic divorce. They lived together unmarried for a while and had more kids. Fast-forward 10 years: she's now married to the boss, went crazy-off-the-deep-end Catholic (coming from a very liberal Lutheran background), and is lecturing the world on chastity and morality on Facebook, suggesting that abortion is best prevented by a marriage-only, single-partner approach to sex. Riiiiiight.

[GeoBQn]

I'm sorry, I know this is pages back, but WHAT!?

How on earth does a school administration have the right to refuse a student based on marital status?

Was it a private school? It reminds me of the scene in Great Balls of Fire where Myra is kicked out of either junior high or high school after getting married at 13. The school was just concerned with making sure the married student didn't "infect" other students with thoughts of marriage, and they didn't broach the troubling question of why a grown man would want to marry a 13-year-old girl.

[FreeJosie]

This was a pretty standard Catholic thing back in the day. I had a short engagement because of the You Must Walk Down The Aisle A Virgin[tm][/tm] thing. The marrriage lasted six and a half years.

That said, I have several friends who did the same thing I did and are still happily married 40+ years later. A generation or two ago, we tended to get married younger and have shorter engagements and less elaborate weddings, and far fewer of us lived together before marriage. Even in the early '70s, though, the virginal bride thing was fading fast.

My grandparents were married on New Year's Eve in 1954. Apparently my grandfather proposed by asking my grandmother if she'd like to get lucky before the New Year. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jana814]

I don't think that 18 months from meeting to marriage is particularly fast, though. With some fundies, we're talking about three or four months, possibly less. That friend of my mother's told her in early June that she didn't like it that her son didn't know any "marriageable" girls. But by mid-August, he was engaged and they were married at the end of September. Plus, he was 20 and the bride was barely 18. That is totally different than a couple together for 18 months marrying with a year and half together at late 20s/early 30s.

Something like what u described w/ the 20 & 18 year olds would happened in VERY religious Jewish communities their was just a wedding like this in Israel a little while ago the bride & groom were only 18.

[louisa05]

Was it a private school? It reminds me of the scene in Great Balls of Fire where Myra is kicked out of either junior high or high school after getting married at 13. The school was just concerned with making sure the married student didn't "infect" other students with thoughts of marriage, and they didn't broach the troubling question of why a grown man would want to marry a 13-year-old girl.

It was a private "interdenominational" Christian school that had a policy in writing that students who married before graduating had to leave the school. I was a bit shocked when I saw it in the handbook, but it was there precisely because so many fundagelicals were beginning to encourage extremely young marriage. In the case I posted about, that policy saved those kids a lot of heart ache, I'm sure. In another case, a divorced mom pulled her 16 year old daughter out of school to try to marry her off in a courtship situation. We never found out what exactly happened, but the girl ended up leaving the state to live with her father a couple of months after her mom pulled her out of school. She did not get married and remains unmarried and she would have graduated in 1999.

[halfheartedheroine]

Shouldn't fundies be wanting really long engagements to prove that their offspring can resist the ebil temptation of premarital sex? Like, today I didn't sneak frosting off a cake when no one was looking, but then again, I saw zero cakes so there was minimal temptation to do so.

[LittleMama]

Some things on this site are personal, some things are philosophical, some are Biblcal beliefs. This one actually falls on Biblical, not "fundie philosophy". There is a piece of NT scripture that talks about adultery (acting in lust with someone you are not married to). It says God sees the heart of lusting the same as physical lust (adultery) therefore if a man can not control himself to abstain from adultery with a woman he should marry her as to not put them both in a sinful situation. Now a days a woman can make that choice too in our culture. Most modern Xtians take this as a warning just to be careful with priorities before marriage, not "marriage for sex" because it is about a lusting heart, not nearly just sex. :)

[louisa05]

Okay, so I have a weird question pertaining to all of this. If two fundies rush into marriage in order to avoid premarital sex and then discover that they don't get along, can fundies get divorced?

Fundies, usually no. Evanglicals, who are also tend to rush marriage (there were no hard core fundies in the school I worked at), yes. Their divorce rate is the same or even higher than the non-evangelical population. Likely because of very young/rushed marriages.

[TrueRebel1]

Fundies, usually no. Evanglicals, who are also tend to rush marriage (there were no hard core fundies in the school I worked at), yes. Their divorce rate is the same or even higher than the non-evangelical population. Likely because of very young/rushed marriages.

From my experience growing up, people in the Gothard/Vision Forum/Conservative Church/Homeschool circles do NOT condone divorce under any circumstance. If a divorced person comes into the circles, they are not welcomed. The philosophy is that no matter how bad the marriage, how ill-suited you are for each other, how unfaithful your spouse is, it's the greater sin to divorce.

[louisa05]

Right. But there are multiple groups that are pushing the young marriage thing. As I try to explain to people all the time, fundamentalists and evangelicals are not the same thing. The Gothard/VF/hard core homeschooling crowd and the evangelical private Christian school crowd are two different groups with a lot of major differences. Some evangelicals are fundamentalists in their approach to the Bible but they do not hold to the most radical of fundamentalist "standards". The people I know and worked with who were pushing young marriage, even courtship, were evangelicals who did not object to women in pants, contemporary Christian music, and many other things that hard core IFB/VF/Gothardite fundies despise and ban. And their view of divorce is often much more accepting.

[formergothardite]

Some things on this site are personal, some things are philosophical, some are Biblcal beliefs. This one actually falls on Biblical, not "fundie philosophy". There is a piece of NT scripture that talks about adultery (acting in lust with someone you are not married to). It says God sees the heart of lusting the same as physical lust (adultery) therefore if a man can not control himself to abstain from adultery with a woman he should marry her as to not put them both in a sinful situation. Now a days a woman can make that choice too in our culture. Most modern Xtians take this as a warning just to be careful with priorities before marriage, not "marriage for sex" because it is about a lusting heart, not nearly just sex. :)

There is one thing I have learned here is that you can't say that "this is Biblical". :lol: There are Christians that do not interpret those verses that way or even think they are literal. So this falls more into this is how some people interpret the Bible to say but others don't category. There are even some Christians that think the Bible doesn't speak against living together outside of marriage. The Bible can be interpreted eleventy billion ways.

[LittleMama]

There is one thing I have learned here is that you can't say that "this is Biblical". :lol: There are Christians that do not interpret those verses that way or even think they are literal. So this falls more into this is how some people interpret the Bible to say but others don't category. There are even some Christians that think the Bible doesn't speak against living together outside of marriage. The Bible can be interpreted eleventy billion ways.

Hence me saying "Biblical beliefs". Sometimes I read items on here that are pure "Fundie" or whatever thy go by philosophical beliefs that may be based on something but not exactly in the Bible. Where this lady pulled her advice was from the Bible, not (enter some man-company-denomination name). How she lives it out is up to her, (or in his case how she dishes it out.)

[formergothardite]

Having been fundie and been around a ton a different types of fundies I have found that almost always there is some biblical basis for their beliefs. Even the most crazy ass Gothard beliefs he can link back to the Bible in some weird way. What fundie beliefs are you thinking of that are not based on the Bible?

[LittleMama]

Having been fundie and been around a ton a different types of fundies I have found that almost always there is some biblical basis for their beliefs. Even the most crazy ass Gothard beliefs he can link back to the Bible in some weird way. What fundie beliefs are you thinking of that are not based on the Bible?

You are way more knowledgable on the Fundie Philosophy than I am! I am just a Christian. The one I notice is daughters/sons staying at home past adulthood or under parental authority even after married. Another is dresses/skirts only on women. Another is no or limited college. (Obviously all these people are different in some ways, courting or dating, makeup or no makeup, knees or ankles, Gospel or bluegrass...). But I did see one thread that quoted "Gothardism" and it actually was a Proverb, not this man's taught philosophy.

Anyway people may try to use the Bible to push these philosophies, but none of these are direct from the Bible. If people want to live that way, it is their free right, but it is not a Biblical command or anything and it is wrong to tell someone that God in the bible says "dresses only! To your ankles! No hand holding til marriage!" When there is no such thing in there.

A bit off topic but I live in a area with lots of Plain/Amish people and when you talk to one who decided to read the Bible for themselves they are alway like "Woah! I never knew the freedom it actually says we have!" Because all the philosophical rules are no where in the text.

:)

(I edited the face because for some reason it was sad.)

[formergothardite]

You are way more knowledgable on the Fundie Philosophy than I am! I am just a Christian. The one I notice is daughters/sons staying at home past adulthood or under parental authority even after married. Another is dresses/skirts only on women. Another is no or limited college. (Obviously all these people are different in some ways, courting or dating, makeup or no makeup, knees or ankles, Gospel or bluegrass...). But I did see one thread that quoted "Gothardism" and it actually was a Proverb, not this man's taught philosophy.

Anyway people may try to use the Bible to push these philosophies, but none of these are direct from the Bible. If people want to live that way, it is their free right, but it is not a Biblical command or anything and it is wrong to tell someone that God in the bible says "dresses only! To your ankles! No hand holding til marriage!" When there is no such thing in there.

A bit off topic but I live in a area with lots of Plain/Amish people and when you talk to one who decided to read the Bible for themselves they are alway like "Woah! I never knew the freedom it actually says we have!" Because all the philosophical rules are no where in the text.

:(

You would be shocked how many Bible verse they can find to support anything from dresses only to no college. There are Bible verses that can be interpreted to say pretty much all this stuff.

[LittleMama]

You would be shocked how many Bible verse they can find to support anything from dresses only to no college. There are Bible verses that can be interpreted to say pretty much all this stuff.

Oh you are so right! People can take any written words and try to make them fit into their personal beliefs. Still doesn't change that it does not say "X,Y & Z". It doesn't. If people pull something from the text that is not direct then they can follow it- sure. Just don't say it is direct if it is personal philosophy they gleaned from the Bible.

Say, when Jesus says "If someone slaps your face, turn the other cheek. If someone asks for your coat, give them your shirt too." Pretty direct there. Or in this case it does say "If you feel lust in your heart and can not control yourself to not act on it, better marry and not cause both to sin." It is then up to the person to choose how they will respond to that Biblical text (choose to take literally, interpret it personally, ignore). But it is in there.

And I don't even want to get started on the most basic things it says like oh.. "Love your neighbor" that people tend to ignore and focus on something like "Rock music is the devil!!!!" :?

[RosyDaisy]

You would be shocked how many Bible verse they can find to support anything from dresses only to no college. There are Bible verses that can be interpreted to say pretty much all this stuff.

How about this little gem from 1 Corinthians 7:3

The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband

I wonder what fundies have to say about the bolded? Of course that's just cherry picking, and the point being made (from the verses after) is that married people should have sex, it's not wrong, and not deprive each other meaning mutual not one demanding it from the other.

[louisa05]

You would be shocked how many Bible verse they can find to support anything from dresses only to no college. There are Bible verses that can be interpreted to say pretty much all this stuff.

A math teacher I worked with at Christian school had a Bible verse to prove the "reason" for every rule in her classroom. Including one that she claimed supported the rule of only doing your math homework in pencil. I wish I could remember what she used for that one because it had to be a big exercise in twisting up words/ideas.

[idonthaveajname]

My (young) nephew is getting married rather soon for this very reason.

[Arete]

My insomnia is back with a vengeance so I'm cranky as all get out. Which means I am not entertaining Biblical reasons for religious groups in this day and age to be pushing young (late teen marriage). They have a very specific agenda for focusing on that-trapping women. It stops their formal education, it gets them pregnant, and women with children and no formal education are a lot easier to keep in line.

As for the men, they want them married young because they can't control them without giving them access to sex. Lots of sexually frustrated men destroy the fabric of functioning society. Got to keep the women from getting uppity and giving the children ideas, got to keep the men in line to limit challenges to the patriarch in situ's leadership.

They can slap any biblical verses they want on it, it is still lipstick on a snake.

[Mama Mia]

The school I taught at vetoed the idea of allowing married teens to attend. There was a couple that dated when he was a senior and she was a junior and their parents decided when he was about to graduate that they should get married so they would not have sex before. All four parents came to the school to make sure the girl would be able to finish there if already married as a senior. The school wisely said no. And, shockingly (or, you know, not at all), the couple broke up in September of her senior year when he was at college. They both married other people much later.

It surprises me that it would be legal to kick a student out for getting married. What kind of justification do they give for that?

I'm assuming this was a private school, because it wouldn't seem to be legal in a public school, right?

[Nothing2CHere]

Say, when Jesus says "If someone slaps your face, turn the other cheek. If someone asks for your coat, give them your shirt too." Pretty direct there. Or in this case it does say "If you feel lust in your heart and can not control yourself to not act on it, better marry and not cause both to sin." It is then up to the person to choose how they will respond to that Biblical text (choose to take literally, interpret it personally, ignore). But it is in there.

I am by no means a Bible scholar, but I think I recall the part of the Bible where this "if you feel lust line" is from, and isn't it one of Paul's letters? So it's not like it was even Jesus saying it, it was from Paul writing a letter to a specific population, and if I recall the context correctly, Paul's ideal was that everyone should be a celibate monk like himself devoting 115% of their lives to following Jesus Christ, but OK, if you can't be like me, praying 37 times a day, fine, get married.

Not that that changes how fundies or evangelicals are interpreting it, encouraging teens to get married if they want to have the sex, I just felt a need to mention that it's not in the Gospels, but another part.