Making Great Conversationalists

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I have an issue w/ that too. If the kid is shy & they r punished for how does that teach them anything.

Agreed. I think the "practice standard conversation openers and responses beforehand" is actually great advice for shy people (particularly people who are shy because they worry about their lack of language competence). If you're going to a party and know you'll probably need to talk to some high-ranking person, find out what the right polite phrases are before you go, you'll be far more confident.

Punishment though, not so much.

[BullyJBG]

Hey, let's all play that game ...

Do you homeschool your children?

No. I am a teacher, an expert in music. I spend everyday educating other people's children in an area in which I am an expert. At the same time I entrust my children's education to people who are experts in English, Maths, Drama, Physics, Chemistry, French, German.

What is your salvation story?

I do not have a salvation story. I grew up in a Christian family and have always had Christ present in my life. There is no big ta-da moment, no crying in repentance, no turning my back on an evil past. For as long as I have been aware, I have known that God loves me and through his grace, he forgives me.

Is that good enough to make the Maxchild explode?

I could have fun with this. Ooops, fun is bad. Prayer closet, right?

Here's how I normally answer the kid question; "no, but I have a dog". If a kid was asking I'd ask it right back. And usually I pull out my phone and show photos/video of my doggie. I have one of him barking really intensely which would be enough to scare the Maxwell kids.......

Salvation story; I grew up in a Christian home, made my decision to live for Jesus when I was 12, was baptized when I was 17, and been living for Jesus ever since. I may then break out in song, and if it was the Maxwells, I'd choose a traditional hymn that I'd think they'd sing along. By then I've got them distracted I'm sure, and, well, refresh my memory on Steve's view on contemporary Christian music? Would he think it bad if I shared some new songs that are based on/include parts of hymns? Here's a couple examples.

Gotta credit some people in my life who taught me "rabbit trails" really well in order to avoid some awkward moments. Anyway, looking forward to more. Is "rabbit trails" a chapter? It CAN be really effective to avoid some really EEEEEVIL topics.......or stuff that's not necessary, or gossip, or too much venting; you get the picture.

[YPestis]

Ugh, the whole training your kid to be conversationalist just sounds so forced and unnatural. I understand teaching children certain social niceties (thank yous, not interrupting, looking in the eye etc), but the whole having each child prepare a question for their guest just sounds like an activity set for foreign language students, not for causal socialization. A normal human child will naturally gravitate towards interacting with each other. It's not like learning to do fractions. Speaking with others is best learned organically. What's next? The Maxwell write a book on how to breath, poop and drink water?

Perhaps that's the problem, the Maxwell children are raised in such a controlled and unnatural environment that the only way to train them to speak with outsiders is through these controlled circumstances. It's like a high school Spanish teacher setting up a stilted, scripted conversation piece as the closest way to recreate a real foreign language experience. But that's because most students in this country rarely have a chance to immerse themselves in a real foreign language environment. In that way, perhaps the Maxwells deprive their children of so much daily interactions that they treat simple non-immediate family interactions almost like a foreign language experience.

[WonderingInWA]

Oooo, I wonder what the Maxwell's position is on their children learning foreign language? I'd love to see them defend why they don't think it's a necessary skill.

[Miggy]

I always use to wonder why all fundies didn't learn Greek and Hebrew so they could read the original texts. Then I found out that was exactly the reason they don't learn it. So many of the fundy rules depend on KJV English and don't work if you use the Greek or Hebrew that it would be dangerous to let the kids learn it.

[uber frau]

Oh don't worry, plenty of fundies (especially of the Reformed/Calvinist flavour) do require their preachers to be able to read the original texts. It doesn't stop the crazy, just slightly changes the focus.

It's still more than possible to pull a verse or a sentence out of context and apply it to something it was never meant to be applied to. And that's before you even stop to consider the history and validity of the complete work to begin with...

[Shoes Grace]

My dog and cat are both homeschooled, and largely in favour of student led educational methods. The dog is an excellent listener, the cat is a fantastic talker, but they both lack a little in the conversation department. I try to keep them away from harmful books, and neither are allowed to leave the house unsupervised, but I am uncertain what more I can do. How can I better train up my pets in the Maxwell method?

My personal salvation is my own welfare, thank you. My parents believed I had free will and the ability to make my own spiritual decisions free from the influence of others. Are you asking because you want to have a conversation about Hamartiology, or because you have assumed that I am a Christian who believes in salvation?

Did I follow the rules!?

[thoughtful]

I told my mother about the Maxwells considering shyness a punishable offense, and she made the most glorious snort of disgust. I wish I could recreate it for you all.

[bionicmlle]

My dog and cat are both homeschooled, and largely in favour of student led educational methods. The dog is an excellent listener, the cat is a fantastic talker, but they both lack a little in the conversation department. I try to keep them away from harmful books, and neither are allowed to leave the house unsupervised, but I am uncertain what more I can do. How can I better train up my pets in the Maxwell method?

I most certainly value my dogs' lack of verbal conversational skills. I wish more people I knew, however, had their skills for non-verbal communication. I'm guessing the Maxwell "children" lack a keen sense of affect recognition.

[MamaJunebug]

I wish I couild read more of Miggy's selfless and intrepid reports, but I just can't. However, I found the following so ironic as to be worth commenting upon:

Maxwell directive #1,234,567:

Do not ask personal questions unless the person is a close friend.

Seriously. They write that in the book? Where do they think the following questions land on the "personal" spectrum:

"Do you know where you're going when you die?"

"Do you have any things we can pray to God for on your behalf?"

"Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?"

And who do they consider "a close friend":

The waitress at Olive Garden?

The campers one space over?

The luckless fairgoer who accepts a free water from them at the county fair - and has to listen to them ask questions like the above?

Steve and Teri are beyond help in the hypocrisy department. Or come to think of it, they could write a book on the topic. Literally. :doh:

[HoneyBunny]

There will be mistakes. The example given is "a story we heard" which probably means a story we made up. The story is a 4yr old pointing out a lady in halter top and shorts and asking in a loud voice "Why is that lady just wearing her underwear in the store? I don't think she is modest." Teri's advice is to let them moment go and allow it to be a humbling moment. [Not quite sure what that means but she doesn't hit her kids so things are good.] She suggests talking with your child later a out what they should have said. [Can I suggest that while teaching your child to be modest is good, teaching them to judge people based on appearance is maybe not so good?]

A humbling moment? If there anyone reading who DOESN'T believe that Teri means for this to be a humbling moment for the misguided lady, not the outspoken child?

[Miggy]

Chapter 9: What's next for the Advanced?

The opening of this chapter is brilliant so I'll just quote it:

"By the intermediate stage of conversation, your children will most likely have conversation skills that are more advanced than many adults. This isn't said to build pride but to understand how desperately these skills are lacking in society today and why it is important to work on them." [Oh my, the Maxwells really need to get out more, don't they? My husband & I both have jobs that involve working with lots of people and we rarely meet an adult who needs to use a rehearsed formula to hold a conversation which is the Maxwell definition of intermediate. The adults most likely to fit into this category are the genius-level senior professors at MrMiggy's uni.]

# It isn't a conversation if only one person talks - that is a lecture.

# It isn't a conversation if one person responds with all short answers - that is an interrogation.

# There are different levels of conversation depending on who you are talking to.

# Children need to learn find out another persons interest "in order to facilitate give and take". Story about Max-son flying home talking to lady next to him, finding out she liked her job and talking to her about it. [Poor lady.] Conversation should be two way but this doesn't always happen. "Sometimes all one can do is keep asking questions. That was the exact experience of our son ... She was delighted to talk about herself ... She didn't ask our son even one question ..." [Doesn't this make it an interrogation? We could look at it a different way- your son interrogated a lady throughout the flight when she might have been quite happy to sit in silence.]

Your child is now advanced enough to learn to lead the conversation. Example; (not exact quote)

Friend: Hey Joseph, did you see that new tv show last night?

Joseph: No. I don't watch tv. Last night I did this most amazing web design for a home school family (blah blah blah)

Steve/Teri then says we should notice how amazing Joseph is (???) - he kept the conversation relevant by talking about last night but steered it away from television. Oh what an amazing conversationalist I have raised. [Joseph]

As your children mature spiritually their conversation will become more edifying. Encourage them to use the bible as much as possible in conversation. Boring story about Steve and a lady at church who always uses the bible in conversation. [Warning Steve/Teri: MrMiggy is Christian but if you use a bible verse in the first couple if sentences he will write you off as a fundy nutcase and refuse to listen to anything else you have to say. If that is the reaction you get from a Christian, expect an even less enthusiastic reaction from everyone else.]

Real life stories are important. John is the best Maxwell story teller. Two pages of a John story about following a police car slowly down a highway. He never finds out why he is following the car or why they are going slowly. [i don't understand why the Maxwells find boring and pointless stories interesting and I definitely don't understand why they inflict these stories on other people.] Jesus used parables to send a message. John could tell his story differently and use it to communicate a message. Steve/Teri adds a bible verse to John's story and tacks on a bit about following the police car is like following the Lord. [John never found out why he was following the pice car. Does this mean he will never find out why he is following Steve?]

Steve identifies himself as the author now. I should have noticed this already. He writes in a very aggressive style. [Teri is much softer and actually offers some useful advice.]

# The main point to conversation for children is so they can learn.

# Child must learn to think before they speak. There must be negatives consequences for children who speak without thinking.

# Children will make mistakes. We should help them go back and ask for forgiveness.

In conclusion, teach your children to

1. Give and take in conversation

2. Lead a conversation

3. Bring a conversation to spiritual topics

4. Tell real life stories

5. Be a learner

6. Edify with conversation

7. Discern when to be quiet

Exercises

1. Have topics written on paper. Child draws paper and must talk on subject immediately without time to prepare. [Not sure how this helps conversation]

2. Dad and Mom practice conversation with each child at the evening meal.

3. Assign an older child to question a younger child about their day.

4. Dad or Mom to start a conversation with an older child and child must steer conversation to a new topic.

5. "Assign each family member to tell a true story during a family conversation."

6."Assign a child to have an edifying and loving conversation during dinnertime, including Scripture in the conversation."

7."Invite a neighbour for dinner. Plan for the older children to take turns asking questions and leading the conversation. Evaluate after the guests have left. Were the words loving? edifying? Did the speakers and listeners seem attentive? Have good eye contact? Smile when appropriate?Answer the question? Give more detail? Ask questions?"

[smile when appropriate? Is this when I feel genuinely happy or when you feel it would be appropriate for me to smile. Stupid question. Obviously it is when you think I should smile. Should I point out that a lot of people smile when they are feeling awkward or embarrassed about someone else's behaviour? I think I would end up smiling through most of the Maxwell dinner. Did I answer your questions? Maybe. Maybe if I didn't it is not that I lack conversation skills but that you were asking inappropriate questions. I am never going to dinner in Maxhell!]

[Patsy]

Perhaps Steve has trouble smiling when appropriate. In fairness, I'm a very unspontaneous person and often am very slow to react, including smiling, but seriously, what a creep.

I find it interesting (and by interesting, I mean not at all surprising because the idiots don't understand how "coauthoring" actually works out here in the real world) that instead of writing a book together, they just write bits and put them together. They're an isolated codependent married couple and that's how they collaborate?

[Peas n carrots]

I take my first title suggestion back. This book should be called Irony.

[BullyJBG]

A lot of good from this one too, except that it kind of means nothing if they don't PRACTICE it......

Here's another possibility for Joseph on the TV subject. Yes, I agree that this can easily be one of those where you both find there isn't anything else to say after they both say what they did. But I suppose asking what WAS on TV could've led him astray. But it also could be another opportunity to bring up spiritual things. But I guess that answers my question about "rabbit trails".

[Shoes Grace]

"Dad or Mom to start a conversation with an older child and child must steer conversation to a new topic."

Sarah, what do you say we spend a few hours bagging up Chore Packs while Daddy's gone?

Mom, how about we walk down to the Circle K and get you a Pepsi?

How easy is that?

[Hane]

Am I the only one who sees his instructions as interrogation or presentation rather than conversation? Real conversation has relaxed give and take, and usually has no embedded agenda other than social bonding.

If Steve is, according to his kids, this swell guy who makes friends wherever he goes, why are his online responses to people's comments so stilted? I'm almost willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's one of those people who can't communicate easily in writing. (I have tons of perfectly friendly colleagues who can't express emotion or mood in their emails.) But here he is, presenting himself as the be-all and end-all of communication skills.

I once called him out on his blunt response to a little boy who liked the Moody books, telling him he could have been kinder, saying, "That little boy and his parents literally pay your bills." I was gobsmacked when he changed his response!

[AnywhereButHere]

Well, now we know what they all talk about at dinner. They talk about how to talk, with scripts and everything. Life in that house must be horror-story surreal. I can see a visit there being somewhat like visiting a religious based Stepford.

[thoughtful]

I wish I couild read more of Miggy's selfless and intrepid reports, but I just can't. However, I found the following so ironic as to be worth commenting upon:

Maxwell directive #1,234,567:

Seriously. They write that in the book? Where do they think the following questions land on the "personal" spectrum:

"Do you know where you're going when you die?"

"Do you have any things we can pray to God for on your behalf?"

"Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?"

Well-said.

Here is the beginning of the latest blog post:

Good morning! It’s a pretty October morning, and the delicious aroma of coffee is in the bus. I want to share with you about last weekend’s conference in Louisville.

Even with the time for planning and editing that writing affords, that's how a Maxwell expresses herself.

It's hard to imagine them having anything remotely resembling a real conversation.

[Miggy]

Chapter 10: How do we handle roadblocks?

"What about when your child tells you that he can't be a good conversationalist because he doesn't know what to say? Bible verse - Moses saying he wasn't eloquent. Moses was turning down an opportunity God was offering him so God gave that job of spokesman to Aaron. Moses missed out on a blessing. "We don't want our children to miss out on blessings." [i thought the point to the Moses story was that Moses found something difficult so God gave him Aaron to help out. Moses didn't miss out on a blessing - he was given one.]

Tell your kids God will give them the right words. Practice will help the reluctant child and practicing the beginner exercises.

A child might use the excuse they are a slow thinker. Tell him there are no timers in a conversation and it is ok to pause and think.

Another excuse is they can not remember what the other person said. This is because they are spending too much time planning what they are going to say and are not paying enough attention.

Children can also be hesitant because they don't think they have anything interesting to share. Parents can give them topics to help. Example: Jacob has just helped Dad fix their neighbours letter box. Dad suggests Jacob tell Mr Reed about this at church because Mr Reed had to repair his own letter box last summer. Dad asks Jacob to think of ways he could make the conversation continue after the initial story. Jacob decides he will ask Mr Green why he had to replace his letter box.

You may notice your children only talking to their peers at church and not talking to younger or older people. You need to find out why. It might be because they don't know what to say and you can help them with appropriate topics. It might be because your child is interested in his friends. "In that case, you need to go back to the reason why conversation is important - to communicate love. This is where conversation drives us to discipleship with our children. We have to teach them to love others and set self aside." You should encourage them to speak to adults at church.

Don't use filler words. These are words that have no value and can distract the listener: Ya know, yeah, right, so, ummm, ah, like, etc. Be aware of these words and cut the out of your conversation. "Also encourage your children away from using slang and street talk. Show them the importance of being ambassadors for Christ." [i want my children to learn to speak correctly but I also think different language has a time and place. My husband struggled in his first job because he sounds very upper class and he was working with country kids. They weren't interested in anything a "stuck-up city boy" had to say. I tend to speak the way I am spoken to so I sound quite country talking with these kids and had no problems with discipline. I have far more success communicating with different people than MrMiggy, who always uses Queens English. I don't think Steve would understand this as he seems to believe the problem us always with the other person. It is never up to him to adapt.]

Teach your child not to argue or respond to angry words. Example: At a conference Jesse is talking to a man who starts telling Jesse about his sons plans for college. Jesse tells the man he is not going to college and his reasons why. The man becomes angry at Jesse. "The logic of Jesse's no college points shared innocently in the spirit of a typical conversational exchange sparked emotion in the dad without warning. Jesse was able to remain calm when confronted with anger." Afterwards Jesse said he gained experience in when to quietly drop a point. Several bible verses. "Children also need to be cautious of sounding like know-it-all authorities, especially with adults." [i am glad Steve is aware of this problem. I think his children often sound like insufferable know-it-alls.]

Shy people are difficult to talk to. Your children should just be confident. He might even be able to encourage the other person by sharing his own struggles with shyness. [bleh]

Be kind and loving to people who give one word answers. "Not speaking to someone, or ignoring them, indicates self love. You child 's appropriate response is not to be offended, but to pray for the other person." [Learn to use commas correctly! Grrr. Actually Steve, I can think of lots of reasons for not speaking to someone. The main reason I avoid speaking to people like Steve is not self love but because I don't want to be battered with his religious beliefs.]

Be careful when talking to proud people."Pride is contagious."

It will be difficult to talk to people who interrupt. This can be a bad habit or caused by pride. Children should use this as an opportunity to practice patience and kindness.

Your child should not join in mockery, criticism or gossip. They should try and stop these occurring in conversation if they can.

Sometimes your child might hear crude or even curse words. [Oh no, the poor little treasures.] Teach you child to answer "how are you ?" with "I am blessed." In doing this he identifies himself with God. "It will elevate the conversation so that those who might normally use crude language will be more careful." "If that doesn't work, your child can interrupt ... explain that Jesus Christ is his Lord ... he doesn't want to hear those words. It is possible your child might have to choose to leave the conversation." [Ok everyone, you are safe from being converted by Stevehovah as long as you remember to use a few crude words.]

Teach children not to answer inappropriate questions. Decide as a family what is and isn't appropriate. Teach the a response "Maybe you should ask my Dad".

Families should "discuss and set guidelines for boy/girl conversations." Some think there is nothing wrong with boys and girls talking, some think they shouldn't talk until they are ready for courtship and some until they are actually in courtship. "Please realise there can be dangers with boy/girl conversations." ... heart attachments can easily grow ... parents and children get hurt ... avoid by having policies in place ... encourage our children to talk to those of their own gender ... respond politely but do not continue the conversation of the opposite gender. [i though not continuing a conversation showed self love but that was six pages ago.]

In conclusion, teach your children

# Not to make excuses

# To talk to everyone, not just peers

# Avoid filler words

# Not to become angry or argue

# Be patient and kind in difficult conversation

# Avoid mocking, criticism or gossip

# Avoid crude words

# Not to answer inappropriate questions

Exercises

"Remember to take notes on each assignment, practice, or evaluation ." [i am impressed at Steve's ability to take a skill I acquired just by being around people and turn it into something that requires notes and exams. He should write a teachers guide on how to take normal activities and make them painful and/or boring. He can do that so well.]

1. Discuss conversation excuses and challenges and work out a plan for dealing with them. (There are 18 on the list.)

2. Make a list of filler words used by your family and start eliminating them.

3.Role play difficult conversation situations such as anger or pride.

4.Invite an unsaved person or family member to dinner. Work on conversation skills why they are there. Later have a family evaluation. [My two best friends are Muslim and Hindi. I would never dream of inviting them over to be a token "unsaved person" for my kids to practice on. How offensive! If I even thought like that I don't imagine we would manage to be friends in the first place. I have a few atheist colleagues and friends but again, that friendship is based on a mutual respect for each others beliefs. Of course, my kids don't actually need to do this anyway. They go to public schools and deal with adults and children from a range of different faiths (and races and political ideologies) everyday. They don't seem to have any problems.]

[sparkles]

Miggy, you are a far, far better person than I. Even just reading your synopses, I'm so aggravated that the most articulate comment I can muster is "AAAARRRRGH!" Honestly, I just want to throw things. Preferably at Steve.

Of course, I'll have to read the whole thing now. :angry-banghead:

[twin2]

Teach your child not to argue or respond to angry words. Example: At a conference Jesse is talking to a man who starts telling Jesse about his sons plans for college. Jesse tells the man he is not going to college and his reasons why. The man becomes angry at Jesse. "The logic of Jesse's no college points shared innocently in the spirit of a typical conversational exchange sparked emotion in the dad without warning. Jesse was able to remain calm when confronted with anger." Afterwards Jesse said he gained experience in when to quietly drop a point

Uh yeah, I highly doubt this. More likely, the father probably tried to rebuff Jesse's points and explain his point as to why college is good and he may want to reconsider Steve's his thinking. I'm guessing Jesse mistook disagreement as anger.

Once again Steve-O, I don't think the "rest of the world" is the "good conversation" problem.

[kpmom]

Uh yeah, I highly doubt this. More likely, the father probably tried to rebuff Jesse's points and explain his point as to why college is good and he may want to reconsider Steve's his thinking. I'm guessing Jesse mistook disagreement as anger.

Once again Steve-O, I don't think the "rest of the world" is the "good conversation" problem.

I'm wondering if the man felt his position was being attacked rather than just two people having a difference of opinion. Sarah can come across as smug and holier than thou in her blog posts, so maybe the other siblings, including Jesse, can come across like that too.

Also, if Jesse supposedly learned about not pushing a point, my guess is he was doing a lot more than just innocently giving his reasons why no college. He's basically admitting Jesse was pushing his views on this man, not having a conversation.

[twin2]

I'm wondering if the man felt his position was being attacked rather than just two people having a difference of opinion. Sarah can come across as smug and holier than thou in her blog posts, so maybe the other siblings, including Jesse, can come across like that too.

Also, if Jesse supposedly learned about not pushing a point, my guess is he was doing a lot more than just innocently giving his reasons why no college. He's basically admitting Jesse was pushing his views on this man, not having a conversation.

That could be true as well. It wouldn't surprise me if a Son of Steve started out a "great conversation" with "You're wrong and here's why.... (insert some bible verses)......." I could see someone getting angered by that.

Steve just loves to give examples where the Maxwells are great, rest of the world bad. Has he given any example in the book where one of his children gave a "bad conversation".

Also the second conversation about the evils of college.......

[takers401]

Found my first positive...don't use filter words. In everyday conversation it's not such a biggie but in more professional settings (news interviews, work presentations, etc) I can get to distracted by the "you know", "um", and "ah"'s that I lose focus on the actual point of what they are trying to say.