Making Great Conversationalists

[kpmom]

As anyone ever found out how Teri's parents felt about how they raised their kids. I know Teri has at least 1 sibling I wonder if they questioned how the kids were raised also.

Teri's parents live next door. The kids had grandma and grandpa time written right into their school schedules at one point. Teri's mom wears ankle length skirts. Steve talked about taking daily or weekly walks with Teri's dad when he was well enough. I'm assuming they're fine with the way they raised the kids, but it's only an assumption.

[Miggy]

Melanie was teaching them to say thank you because a lady was coming over with some presents for the girls. It's something most parents do at some stage.

I actually thought most of this chapter was sensible. The only thing that annoyed me was the idea of treating shyness as disobedience and punishing the child.

[Jana814]

I actually thought most of this chapter was sensible. The only thing that annoyed me was the idea of treating shyness as disobedience and punishing the child.

I have an issue w/ that too. If the kid is shy & they r punished for how does that teach them anything.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Chapter 7: How do we work with beginners?

...

There will be mistakes. The example given is "a story we heard" which probably means a story we made up. The story is a 4yr old pointing out a lady in halter top and shorts and asking in a loud voice "Why is that lady just wearing her underwear in the store? I don't think she is modest." Teri's advice is to let them moment go and allow it to be a humbling moment. [Not quite sure what that means but she doesn't hit her kids so things are good.]

OMG... they used a contraction in the book? in an actual conversation example, no less???? Methinks someone didn't do so well on editing that page! LOL!

As for what Terri meant when she said she would let it be a humbling experience... i suspect she meant it would be humbling for the nearly-naked heathen the child was talking about. Surely they would be so humbled by the little tike's honest observation that they would suddenly change their evil-dressing ways. :lol:

It is really a shame that the maxwells wrote this book. The topic held so much potential, and it was a book that could have been especially useful for the homeschooling community where there is sometimes less interaction with non-relatives. Had it been useful and written by a normal person I could have seen it being quite popular. However, Steve ruined the entire concept by being the one to write it.

[thoughtful]

Just realized I haven't said this yet -- Miggy, thank you for reading this book and summarizing/quoting it for us.

"Don't excuse shyness. If your child refuses to speak, treat it as a discipline issue just as you would treat any other disobedience."

(snip)

Allowing a shy child not to speak means you are facilitating their disobedience."Their disobedience is a symptom of a heart that isn't willing to listen to you."

FFS, Teri. Being shy is a natural part of some people's personality -- they need time, kindness and encouragement, not censure and punishment.

If one of your children was born with a different eye color than the rest, would you think of that as willful disobedience? :roll:

Interrupting: you must teach your children that interrupting is wrong. Interrupting is prideful and foolish. (Several bible verses to back this up.) Teri would put her hand over the mouth of any child who interrupted and made them wait until and appropriate break in the conversation to speak.

Teaching a child a signal works well for reminding them to wait before speaking -- putting a hand over their mouths is not needed. In fact, such a signal worked for students with whom I had not taught it beforehand. Subtly raising one finger, accompanied by an affectionate look that says "I know what you have to say will be great, but hang on until the other person finishes" usually works without shaming a child.

I will grant you that interrupting, in a certain style and from an adult (i.e. "Let me stop you right there, because you are wrong and of course I know best" -- wonder if Steve pulls that shit) is "prideful" - although I'd use the word arrogant.

But in a child, it can be due to their natural timing (short attention span, quick changes of thought, that "if I don't say it right away I'll forget it" feeling, etc.), and/or enthusiasm about the subject or the person speaking.

So, while it's a habit that needs to be curbed, because it comes off as rude, it can actually be a sign of an enthusiastic conversationalist, being involved in the conversation, and affection and respect for the other person.

[Rainbowcolor]

Thanks, Miggy, for the super job you are doing with the chapter by chapter book review.

[BullyJBG]

Chapter 5: Are there conversation dangers and cautions?

"Each of us is accountable to The Lord for our words."

We should eliminate "idle" words from our conversation. According to Steve, we should eliminate every useless words, every word that is not "filled with truth, thanksgiving, praise, graciousness, and good reports." We also have to get rid of foolish words and jesting. There is a two and a half page explanation as to why joking is bad. [The examples given sound like Jim Bob Duggar and should be avoided but that doesn't mean all jokes are bad. How about just avoiding jokes that involve laughing at another person?]

Don't talk about yourself all the time. Remember to listen. Avoid lying and flattery. (It took Steve 2 1/2 pages to say those three sentences due to an excessive use of bible verses and a lot of repetition.) Don't use hurtful words.

Teach our children about the scriptures so they can identify good and bad talk and only listen to the good talk. The bible says we have to ignore hurtful words.

Quote : Our family uses the last Sunday of every month to evangelize downtown. We are confronted with people who refuse our tracts or discussions in an evil way. [i can't even comment - that made me laugh so much.] We respond by not saying anything and moving along. Our facial expressions are ones of love not anger.

Exercises

(1) Take notes for practice and evaluation.

(2) Do you, your spouse or your children talk to much?

(3) Do you use idle words, foolish words, jesting, deceitful words, flattering words, evil words or hurtful words?

(4) As a family memorise verses that have to do with areas of wrong words that family members are struggling with?

(5) At mealtimes have each person evaluate how they are doing and record their personal evaluations. Encourage those struggling and praise those doing well.

(6) Read and discuss the conversations in this chapter.

Okay, here's a chapter that's actually good! Was Ephesians 4:29 quoted? That's one I focus on in wondering, is what I said REALLY necessary? Every conversation doesn't necessarily have to be about the Bible, but it is good to ask oneself why I say what I say? Will it HELP the ones who hear it? Joking, yeah, a lot of it is unnecessary. Venting can easily go too far. And yes, a lot of times people are turned off by evangelistic attempts. Some are in my own family; who've heard it all before and have rejected it. Some persist, but there comes a time when you just need to shut up and let them be. For strangers, definitely. You BARELY know where they're coming from; if they reject you, let them be and pray for them. God knows what the whole story is.

Okay, I got some meat. Time to see if there's any more; or more bones to spit out.

[BullyJBG]

One chapter out of 7 so far is good. Yes I agree. I was shy as a child, and I guess I still am to a degree. My parents had their moments of punishing me for it, but it didn't pull me out of it. It happened with time and patience. A lot of it wasn't even them; more like having me being put into situations where I would have to speak up for myself to get anything. Being away from home helped too. Actually, punishing a child for being shy to someone brought out triggers from a job I had for 5 1/2 years; 2 of those years with a manager who could easily be a different version of Stevehovah/Bill Gothard. Which is partly where my username came from. Anyway, this manager would, after reprimanding me and over-coaching me and trying to find ANYTHING to correct me(no I wasn't the only one; everyone has their stories from there), get down on me for being nervous as a result. I got my hours cut, I asked why, and was told that I "need to be more confident". My nervousness was showing to the customers with whom I'd built rapport over the years. I told her "it's hard to be confident when you get reprimanded all the time".

Anyway, thanks Miggy. Carry on.

[Peas n carrots]

As someone who works in the business world in a major city, I can tell you that Steve's advice will guarantee your kid wouldn't make it a day in the office environments I work in. Which is probably their whole point....

[lexiloumarie]

I'll admit, I've done the hand over the mouth when I've had one excitedly screaming and not getting that they need to hush. But it's usually done very silly, and it gets the point across quickly.

[Mary C Doates]

And to think I actually considered buying this drivel in an effort to get some insight into Maxwell! Miggy, you have spared me many hours, and many brain cells, with your recaps.

[Miggy]

Chapter 8: How do we work with intermediates?

Example conversation: A nine year old has a tour of their bus. He asks questions about the age of the bus, the mileage and tells the Maxwells about his families bus, it's age and its mileage. The Maxwells see this as a child conversing at the level of an adult. [i see this as an average child conversing on a subject that interests them. I have a lot of nine year old students and if you get them started on a subject that interests them they will converse well. For example; ask about the sport they play and they will tell you about their own game, professionals and ask whether you play. However, try to talk to them about something that doesn't interest them - totally different story!]

It is important at this stage to study Proverbs in great detail. "Learn biblical instruction concerning words and conversation." [This is followed by a string of bible verses, none of which come from Proverbs.]

You must be joyful. The Maxwells have a dog next door that is very friendly and runs to the fence barking and wagging its tail whenever anyone walks past. This is how we must approach conversation. Two example conversations; one bad and one joyful. [The Maxwells never seem to take into account who a person is talking to and how that might affect the answers they give. In this example a 17yr old is talking to a man at church about his holiday. In the non-joyful example he gives monosyllabic answers. One of my 12yr old students has just returned from a fantastic holiday. When I asked him about it I got single word answers. I overheard him talking to his friends and he was telling them all the details about the trip. This was just something he didn't want to share with his teacher. This doesn't mean he has poor conversation skills. I don't think the Maxwells have good enough social skills themselves to recognise when somebody can't converse and when they don't want to.]

Teach children to use people's names in conversation.

Teach your child to ask questions of the person they are talking to.

Teach them to try and avoid questions that can be answered with yes or no.

Teach your child to ask appropriate questions. Do not ask personal questions unless the person is a close friend. Appendix A has a list of suggested questions for your child to memorise and use in conversation.

Practice answering questions with your child. Teach them that if they answer yes or no they should follow this up with more information. Example "Yes, brussels sprouts have become one of my favourite vegetables. My mom has a way of cooking them that actually makes them taste good. I think she uses olive oil and garlic to season them. Do you like brussels sprouts?" [Two thoughts; it is horrendous trying to type this stuff because the autocorrect keeps trying to put capital letters in but the Maxwells don't use them. Secondly, if any child spoke to me like this I would assume something was wrong with them and they had been coached how to answer questions. My Aspergers son and his Aspergers friend both sounded unnatural when young. They had been taught how to answer but it still didn't flow quite right. You knew when speaking to them that something wasn't quite right. That is how these answers feel to me. I think if I spoke to the Maxwell offspring I would be wondering what condition they had and if they were getting the therapy they needed.]

Teach children to

(1) Answer the question

(2) Give some more information

(3) Ask a question back

Children must practice. Teri compares conversation to giving your children a vacuum cleaner. [huh?] If you only let your children read the manual they will still not be as to vacuum. You have to let them practice with the machine. Let your children practice conversation. Make sure they begin using scripture in conversation.

Exercises (as it appears in book)

(1) Gave a family discussion to work out basic questions your children could use when talking to other children.

(2) Have at least one conversation with each child at this stage at every mealtime. Have them ask a question to begin it.

(3) Ask your child a question that could be answered with just a "yes" or a "no". Then have him give you a more detailed answer and ask another question back.

(4) Invite an extended family member, who is a believer, or a church friend for dinner. Have each person in your family participate in the conversation with the guest so that they can practice what they have learned in this chapter. After the guest leaves, have a group discussion about how everyone did.

(5) Have your child talk to one older person at church each week by asking him at least two questions and trying to keep the conversation going.

(6) Read through Proverbs as a family and discuss the verses having to do with conversation. Make the topic of conversation and what you can learn about it through Proverbs the special focus of your family Bible time during those days.

This is followed by two pages of suggested questions for asking a child and asking an adult. The kids questions are pretty basic: What is your name? How old are you? Do you have any pets? Adult questions are more snark worthy.

What is your name?

How many children do you have? [Obviously this is VERY important ]

Do you have grandchildren?

What are their names and ages?

[Yes, three of the first four questions about me are actually about my offspring because that is the most important thing about me - sarcasm.]

The 10th question is "What is your salvation story?" followed by "Do you homeschool your children?"

[Considering these are suppose to be questions for a child to ask an adult, I find a lot of these quite rude. If the last question was "Do your kids go to school or home school?" it wouldn't bother me but the way it is worded comes across as quite judgemental.]

[Rainbowcolor]

After the guest leaves, have a group discussion about how everyone did.

... especially the guest.

[Myfanwy]

For crying out freakin' loud, all the practice all the rote learning of questions and answers, ugh and yuck. The Maxwell's isn't only where fun goes to die, I am pretty sure spontaneity sets its affairs in order before it passes the threshold too.

[Hane]

Maxchild: "Do you homeschool your children?"

Me: "No--I entrust a large part of my child's education to people who are smarter and better educated tham I am, and who have specific and intensive training in teaching."

Maxchild: "What is your salvation story?"

Me: "In my religion, we don't believe in the concepts of 'being saved' or 'born again.' We believe in personal responsibility for our actions."

*Maxchild explodes*

[uber frau]

No. Maxchild bursts into tears at the thought of your eternal damnation and falls to it's knees in prayer to plead for your soul.

Because that's not weird at all.

The Maxwells are a living Poe.

[Miggy]

Hey, let's all play that game ...

Do you homeschool your children?

No. I am a teacher, an expert in music. I spend everyday educating other people's children in an area in which I am an expert. At the same time I entrust my children's education to people who are experts in English, Maths, Drama, Physics, Chemistry, French, German.

What is your salvation story?

I do not have a salvation story. I grew up in a Christian family and have always had Christ present in my life. There is no big ta-da moment, no crying in repentance, no turning my back on an evil past. For as long as I have been aware, I have known that God loves me and through his grace, he forgives me.

Is that good enough to make the Maxchild explode?

[OkToBeTakei]

I am joyful that I do not have to TEACH my child how to converse.

This may come as a total shock to the Maxwells but I was spared this burden by allowing my child to interact with...........real people. Not always family and not always under 'controlled' circumstances.

I explained manners when required and then just let her observe and jump right in as she grew up. She learnt how to not converse by seeing rudeness and good conversation by mixing with people from all ages.

I know this is a totally radical approach, called growing up.

I also taught her that imposing your will or opinion on another unless they are a willing participant and welcomed the subject is just plain old rude and ignorant. Of course in Maxwell world *I* would be the rude one for pointing out that their penchant to quote bible passages at people is the height of ignorance and shows an extreme lack of social skills. Just cos' it's about Jesus does not excuse this basic principle of interaction.

I'm beginning to think Steve is a less amusing and fundie version of Sheldon....

[SPHASH]

Hey, let's all play that game ...

Do you homeschool your children?

No. I am a teacher, an expert in music. I spend everyday educating other people's children in an area in which I am an expert. At the same time I entrust my children's education to people who are experts in English, Maths, Drama, Physics, Chemistry, French, German.

What is your salvation story?

I do not have a salvation story. I grew up in a Christian family and have always had Christ present in my life. There is no big ta-da moment, no crying in repentance, no turning my back on an evil past. For as long as I have been aware, I have known that God loves me and through his grace, he forgives me.

Is that good enough to make the Maxchild explode?

That would be my response.

[ThatSnark]

I'm in!

Maxwell: Do you homeschool your children?

In a sense, perhaps. They are both enrolled at local public schools where they spend their days with highly qualified teachers and a diverse peer group. They're learning academic proficiency as well as social skills. After school and on weekends, we go to art and science museums, the library, parks, festivals, and other places to extend and enrich their educations, and we are always answering their questions and exploring their interests.

Maxwell: What is your salvation story?

I was baptized, raised, and confirmed in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. I began to question the absolutist teachings of the church and discovered that much of the theology was created and propagated by man. In college, I left the Lutheran church and found my spiritual home in the Unitarian Universalist church, with which I share the values of the inherent dignity and worth of ALL people, which means that all are loved and saved. UU values are hand-in-hand with social work, my chosen profession, and I feel great about being a part of a church where I don't have to check any of my values at the door to be a part of a worship community.

Thanks for asking, Steve!

[thoughtful]

Hey, let's all play that game ...

Do you homeschool your children?

No. I am a teacher, an expert in music. I spend everyday educating other people's children in an area in which I am an expert. At the same time I entrust my children's education to people who are experts in English, Maths, Drama, Physics, Chemistry, French, German.

What is your salvation story?

I do not have a salvation story. I grew up in a Christian family and have always had Christ present in my life. There is no big ta-da moment, no crying in repentance, no turning my back on an evil past. For as long as I have been aware, I have known that God loves me and through his grace, he forgives me.

Is that good enough to make the Maxchild explode?

We would never get to the first question, since I have no children. The first two sentences of Miggy's answer are also true for me, but I probably wouldn't get to say it, since I don't know if "what do you do for a living?" is a question the Maxwells would ask a woman.

What is your salvation story?

I do not have a salvation story -- I don't need to be saved from anything. In fact, I don't believe in anything supernatural, and that includes not believing in a deity.

Of course, I wouldn't say the above to a Maxwell, since it sounds rude, and because I don't want a lecture about where I'm going after I die.

If they asked me if I knew where I'd go when I die, I'd be tempted to respond like the grandpa from the Oscar Meyer ad, but I would control myself.

kVVs_68Jai8

[Justme]

My answer to nosey questions is "why do you need to know?"

I don't think they would know how to respond as it takes them "off script".

[WonderingInWA]

That's a great Oscar Meyer ad! LOLOLOL!

[snarkykitty]

Here it is FJ friends - my book review of MGC. The book arrived with a pretty bookmark with a bible verse and a heap of advertising for all the other Maxwell books.

The positives first: It is well laid out, simple and easy to read. Each chapter has a lesson and examples and a set of exercises for a parent to do with their child.

Ok, now content ...

Preface

We have trouble talking to others and realised this is because others lack conversation skills. Our children have to be able to talk to non-Christians in order to preach at them.

>>Oh, this made me laugh. Perhaps if they would stop appropriating existing words for their crazy dictionary, people might be able to understand what the he** they are saying. Like cherry picking the Bible, they pull out words from Webster's and attach mountains of odd meanings.

Sarah spent hours proof reading the book. Anna transferred the book from word to publisher. Joseph chose the fonts, did the layout and designed the cover. Aren't they amazing!

Chapter 1: Good or Bad Conversations

We start with some examples of bad conversationalists: a five year old girl who refuses to speak to an unknown lady in a grocery store,

>>1. Don't talk to strangers!! This is a good thing, you nit!

2. And what is your definition of a "good conversationalist" when it comes to a five year old? I know that there's a huge spectrum when it comes to speech skill development (some kids develop motor skills first, others develop speech skills first) and I don't have kids (but 11 nieces and nephews) and even I know that!!

a teenage boy who only gives minimal answers to a doctor,

>>Probably because you insist on being in the room with them as a method of control! (Yes, I have experiences in this area)

a young man who has trouble asking a girls father for permission to court,

>>Because you're crazy?!

and a young wife and mother who, when her husband arrives home from work, tells him about her day was instead of listening to him and serving him a nice dinner.

>>Because women's thoughts, concerns and ideas don't matter as much as the macho man bringing home the bacon.

THESE PEOPLE ARE BAD. Steve tells us what each of them should have said. The five year old, on being complemented on her hair by a stranger, should have said "Thank you. My mommy likes to sometimes make pigtails for me. My name is Cynthia. What's your name?"

>>Because that sounds just like the way a five year old would talk. :roll: Do they know nothing about child speech development? At five years, they are usually not capable of expressing multiple thoughts in a single, succinct sentence. The only way a typical child of that age could say such stuff is if they have memorized and are simply parroting what they've been told to say.

[snarkykitty]

Oh, yippee!! More red pen time!! (Thank you, Miggy!!)

Chapter 2: What is a conversation?

Steve has been travelling with his family for thirteen years and has taught his kids to be great conversationalists with children and adults. However "We became concerned about your children."

Steve gives us an example of Anna trying to talk to a sixteen year old girl and only getting single word answers. He says it should be easy for two sixteen year old girls to talk. (In my experience sixteen year old girls do not talk to people trying to sell their parents stuff.)

Steve goes on to explain the difference between communicating and conversing. Communicating is about exchanging necessary information and is appropriate at times.

>>Does he mean like "Thank you for complimenting my hair. My name is Cynthia and my mom puts my hair in pigtails"? Because that is really important information!

He uses the example of Jesse talking to a dentist. Conversation is a two way interaction and is crucial for parents and children and for Christians who want to take over the world. "Families are in a conversation crisis!" This has come about because we watch tv, use computers, smart phones, text and email.

The Practical Side

(1) Everyone who can write has to fill in a form rating their conversation skills with different people; friends, strangers, siblings, etc. and answering a huge number of boring questions. (2) Everyone has to sit down together and discuss their answers. (3) Read chapter 1 again and see if your kids can tell which conversations are good and which are bad.