The Courtship of Jessa Duggar - Part 2

[louisa05]

I don't think you have to have sex before marriage or live together first to have a successful marriage. I don't have a problem with sex before marriage but I have no desire to live with someone I am not married to. It's just a personal preference. People have and will have successful marriages whether or not they have sex or live together before marriage. What is best for us may not be best for another.

What I do think you need is an intimate relationship with your future spouse and I do not mean that in the sexual sense. I think you need to spend time alone and be able to have real deep conversations with your significant other. I believe it is the only way to really get to know someone. You have to be able to tell your secrets and fears. How someone reacts can tell you a lot about whether you need to continue the relationship. If you can't be truly open while dating or courting, how can you do so in a marriage? Once of my big issues with courting is that there is always a third person in the relationship, so there really is no intimacy between a couple. With courting, it seems like you always have to be on. You have to be perfect so that your chaperone won't tell their parents about any potential "problems" or disagreements. Every "date" is likely scripted by both sides and neither will ever deviate from the program. I worry that courting is always just the fun safe outings or conversation with no real world experiences.

I totally agree with this. My husband and I did not live together prior to getting married and it did not cause any issues after marriage because we had spent enough time together to really know how the other lives. I knew he was a neat freak from spending plenty of time in his home and he knew I am pretty disorganized from spending time at mine. We knew how to work together from doing all kinds of things together while dating like taking care of my car problems, cooking and cleaning up from dinner at his house, picking out a Christmas tree together and a million more every day things.

And the irony of it is that they have convinced themselves that real life dating means creating a facade and their way with such limited contact means you know the real person. It is actually the complete opposite.

[Sola]

Is your friend just as rigid in other areas of her life as well? "I must have X-experience happen in this particular order and manner for it to be valid. I do not want anything less." Or is she only rigid about romantic relationships? Does she think that your marriage isn't valid because you and your husband never officially "dated." (I had someone tell me that about my husband and I. Watevs.)

Of course, romance doesn't happen for some people. It just doesn't, no matter what you do. I'm thinking of a dear friend- and despite him putting himself out there and pursing relationships, he's never had a relationship longer than a few years. He's in his early 50s and still putting himself out there- good on him. (He did share that a lot of the guys he dates want to get too physical too fast- he likes to take things slow, physically- so he doesn't get a lot of fourth or fifth dates.) He goes out with friends, travels all over to see friends, not shy about trying new experiences or meeting new people. It breaks my heart because I know how much he adds to my life by being merely a friend- so I can extrapolate that he would add a lot to someone's life as a partner.

Not really, which is strange. She works in a fashion shoe shop, she has a younger, married sister who has kids so she has plenty of exposure to the 'normal' world. Her sister tried to get her into internetdating a few years ago but she was having none of it. She would say that the right man wwould come along eventually.

[Sola]

Thinking about it, maybe we can introduce your friend and my friend!

[Buzzard]

So famy texts her "happy birthday" and Jessa responds something that has a heart and a smilie...

[Cheetah]

This always, always bugged me - women who wear pantyhose with underwear. It's called pantyhose because it has PANTIES/underwear included! What do you think the cotton panel on the crotch is about? (Ugh, I hate the word, panty!!!)

um, eww. To each their own, but that crotch panel isn't very big and um, how to say this politely, but I'd think they'd get kinda funky. LOL. Plus I'd rather not have to wash the whole pair out after every wearing (and you can't really run those suckers thru the 'hot'cycle). That said, I only wear hose about 1x a year these days...

[sleepygirl1]

So are they engaged, it sounds like Jessa might have gotten a ring for her birthday.

[pudding]

This always, always bugged me - women who wear pantyhose with underwear. It's called pantyhose because it has PANTIES/underwear included! What do you think the cotton panel on the crotch is about? (Ugh, I hate the word, panty!!!)

I don't get how it would "always bug" someone, since it would have NEVER occured to me to wear pantyhose without underwear. I can only see fetish reasons for wearing some without underwear. In German it's "Strumpfhose" and it's translated as "stocking/socks-pants" - maybe that's why I never wondered before this very moment?

[sunshine]

So are they engaged, it sounds like Jessa might have gotten a ring for her birthday.

Interesting. According to Amy, she was never formally introduced to Ben. What is up with that!?! and her comment. Maybe she is trying to force her way back in....Reference (http://www.examiner.com/article/amy-dug ... -questions)

[BravaAmica]

Thinking about it, maybe we can introduce your friend and my friend!

My friend is a gay man. I know he has an open mind regarding finding a lifetime partner but I doubt he'll change teams. 8-)

[HereticHick]

I often wear thigh high stockings (can't remember what they are called in the UK--pullups?) but otherwise I ALWAYS wear undies with my pantyhose--or tights. That crotch panel ain't big enough to contain the funk! Plus I think it would be itchy to go without.

[JellyHope]

Interesting. According to Amy, she was never formally introduced to Ben. What is up with that!?! and her comment. Maybe she is trying to force her way back in....Reference (http://www.examiner.com/article/amy-dug ... -questions)

Yes, that seems very odd to me that they weren't introduced. They're supposed to be " oh so close cousins" and all!

[ILoveJellybeans]

I hope Amy hasn't been shunned from the family or anything, seeing as she says she isn't going to be in any more episodes and wasn't formally introduced to Ben? Wont she be at their wedding?

At least theyre still texting her and stuff, and shes not completely been cut off, as Amy is a positive influence on them because she is a normal person who is nice to them and isn't evil. She is a Christian, but wears pants, drinks, dates and likes secular music, TV shows and movies, and that is okay. She may be immature for her age-I cant believe she is 27, she seems like more 18-21 years old, but she has a life and has fun and nothing bad has happened to her.

[marmalade]

Famy and Ben were both at the flea market. Interesting that they weren't introduced then? It's not as if Famy just showed up and left; she bragged about being featured at the dunk booth.

If they haven't met and the Duggars - and Jessa - have been out of town so much (and calls/texts monitored), it's feasible that they haven't had a chance to talk, or even text.

If she did get a ring for her birthday, it'll be interesting to see how she hides her left hand for the next 6 months until the show airs (and given the short engagements of fundies, likely already wedded/bedded).

[Buzzard]

Famy and Ben were both at the flea market. Interesting that they weren't introduced then? It's not as if Famy just showed up and left; she bragged about being featured at the dunk booth.

If they haven't met and the Duggars - and Jessa - have been out of town so much (and calls/texts monitored), it's feasible that they haven't had a chance to talk, or even text.

If she did get a ring for her birthday, it'll be interesting to see how she hides her left hand for the next 6 months until the show airs (and given the short engagements of fundies, likely already wedded/bedded).

Its pretty fucking rude to not introduce a man that is likely going to MARRY you to your cousin. What happened to JOY?

[singsingsing]

Yeah, that is really bizarre. They were both in the same place for hours, but they were never introduced? That along with Amy's statement that she's not going to be on the show anymore makes it seem like something's going on... at the very least, her relationship with her cousins isn't as ~super close~ as she makes it out to be.

[bal maiden]

Yes, that seems very odd to me that they weren't introduced. They're supposed to be " oh so close cousins" and all!

How close when they be when Amy has to text Jessa asking if it's her birthday? Surely she'd know (or have noted down) when her cousins' birthdays are?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I imagine its harder when you have about three million cousins.

I don't know when my cousins birthdays are and I only have 8 of them. I only remember the ones who are a bit younger than me and invited me to their birthday parties, and the ones who I can remember being born.

[lizziesmom]

Has Amy made any comments one way or another on the pro life issue? Maybe she doesn't share the family's position and they are distancing themselves ......

[Mrs Ms]

I don't think you have to have sex before marriage or live together first to have a successful marriage. I don't have a problem with sex before marriage but I have no desire to live with someone I am not married to. It's just a personal preference. People have and will have successful marriages whether or not they have sex or live together before marriage. What is best for us may not be best for another.

What I do think you need is an intimate relationship with your future spouse and I do not mean that in the sexual sense. I think you need to spend time alone and be able to have real deep conversations with your significant other. I believe it is the only way to really get to know someone. You have to be able to tell your secrets and fears. How someone reacts can tell you a lot about whether you need to continue the relationship. If you can't be truly open while dating or courting, how can you do so in a marriage? Once of my big issues with courting is that there is always a third person in the relationship, so there really is no intimacy between a couple. With courting, it seems like you always have to be on. You have to be perfect so that your chaperone won't tell their parents about any potential "problems" or disagreements. Every "date" is likely scripted by both sides and neither will ever deviate from the program. I worry that courting is always just the fun safe outings or conversation with no real world experiences.

Totally agree. Your living arrangements and sex-life prior to the wedding shouldn't be what makes or breaks a marriage.

I personally think you should travel somewhere together for at least a week to see how you handle yourselves in situations that aren't part of your everyday environment. Seeing someone who isn't a morning person before they have had their first coffee can be rather an eye-opener for an early-bird :lol: Same as testing how good you work together if you get lost, or stuck somewhere or any other kind of stressful thing that is so much more likely to happen when you travel. Does your partner loose their shit with everyone around them? Start crying hysterically? Whip out their phone and start making new arrangements while cracking jokes? Can you pitch a tent together and still speak with each other after it is finally set up?

As to fundies not talking about real-life during their courtship and engagement, I will never forget the biggest wtf moment I had watching the Josh and Anna honeymoon episode. It was when they found out AFTER they were married that Anna wakes up early and Smugger runs on Dugger time. Seems they didn't find the right bible quote to cover preferred sleeping times. :pull-hair:

[Guest]

Has Amy made any comments one way or another on the pro life issue? Maybe she doesn't share the family's position and they are distancing themselves ......

I'm pretty sure she agrees with the family on that one. She was helping them campaign for Santorum last year.

[louisa05]

I imagine its harder when you have about three million cousins.

I don't know when my cousins birthdays are and I only have 8 of them. I only remember the ones who are a bit younger than me and invited me to their birthday parties, and the ones who I can remember being born.

I have 17 cousins. It starts to run together. I know that two of them have April b-days, but I do not know what days. I know that two of them were born one day apart the first week of June but could not tell you either day.

I really can't fault Amy for knowing it is near Jessa's b-day but not the exact day.

[sunshine]

Totally agree. Your living arrangements and sex-life prior to the wedding shouldn't be what makes or breaks a marriage.

I personally think you should travel somewhere together for at least a week to see how you handle yourselves in situations that aren't part of your everyday environment. Seeing someone who isn't a morning person before they have had their first coffee can be rather an eye-opener for an early-bird :lol: Same as testing how good you work together if you get lost, or stuck somewhere or any other kind of stressful thing that is so much more likely to happen when you travel. Does your partner loose their shit with everyone around them? Start crying hysterically? Whip out their phone and start making new arrangements while cracking jokes? Can you pitch a tent together and still speak with each other after it is finally set up?

As to fundies not talking about real-life during their courtship and engagement, I will never forget the biggest wtf moment I had watching the Josh and Anna honeymoon episode. It was when they found out AFTER they were married that Anna wakes up early and Smugger runs on Dugger time. Seems they didn't find the right bible quote to cover preferred sleeping times. :pull-hair:

LOL I remember that Josh said that he converted her to his sleeping time, but that was short-lived when they had kids. Now, she has something to do when everyone else is a sleep.

[ari_belle]

I have 17 cousins. It starts to run together. I know that two of them have April b-days, but I do not know what days. I know that two of them were born one day apart the first week of June but could not tell you either day.

I really can't fault Amy for knowing it is near Jessa's b-day but not the exact day.

Yeah, seriously. how could anyone expect her to remember all of her cousins' birthdays? That's a ridiculous assessment of how close they are, especially considering that this is the Duggars we're talking about, land of 1,000 babies.

[JellyHope]

Yeah, that is really bizarre. They were both in the same place for hours, but they were never introduced? That along with Amy's statement that she's not going to be on the show anymore makes it seem like something's going on... at the very least, her relationship with her cousins isn't as ~super close~ as she makes it out to be.

I've always kinda felt the Duggars, especially the JSlaves, look at Amy as kind of a joke. But in a completely different way than us.

[JellyHope]

I imagine its harder when you have about three million cousins.

I don't know when my cousins birthdays are and I only have 8 of them. I only remember the ones who are a bit younger than me and invited me to their birthday parties, and the ones who I can remember being born.

I know not everyone's as anal as I am with their iPhone calendar, but I too have a zillion cousins (not all from 1 family) and another large # of friends & family members, and all their Bdays are marked.