Leah Remini

[Vex]

I think it's great that she wrote up the littlest GMD, and that she's outspoken.

But. I can't forgive her for the bullshit she spouted in Scientology and Me. She knew about Shelly at the time. She had written DM up at the time. She was questioning the CO$ at the time. But she still went on camera and spread Scientology lies.

I still get furious when I think about Kirsty Alley (who I used to like and admire) saying 'Would you ask a Jew if his religion was a cult?'. How dare she compare a 'religion' made up by a LSD junkie 50 years ago to Judaism? And besides, if Judaism espoused such things as disconnection, SPs, PTS and demanded you pay them every step of the way to learn the torah, you bet your ASS I'd be calling that a cult.

Those celebrities straight-up lied their asses off in those interviews.

A lot of people argue that the celebrities never see the nasty face of Scientology, but Leah certainly say it. We know she wrote up DM, we know she asked where Shelly was, we know she saw problems within the religion and was aware of their SP and disconnection policies, we know she knew about the whole thetan/xenu thing because of her level within the church.

I can't get behind Leah because she was being a hypocrite, knowing everything that was wrong in the church and lying and shilling for it regardless.

Evidence that Leah has been critical of the church in the past:

(I am not breaking the links, I don't see any reason to)

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/08/scient ... es-shelly/

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/05/has-le ... ientology/

[FiddleDD]

The closest I will ever get to Scientology is/was reading "Battlefield Earth". Sure I liked the book, but there won't be any auditing in my future.

[Vex]

The tooth that is dead center of his face messes with my head, and it's all I can see when I see a pic of him. Then I get the mental image of him wearing that black turtleneck cackling like a nut about SP's while ol Dave kisses his ass. He needs an intervention and needs to be deprogrammed.

You must really enjoy my avatar picture, then.

People don't realise the quote on there is an actual quote from that KSW video. He really did say "I want to romp and play ...but I can't". Not because he's a celebrity, mind you. Because he will never rest while there are people out there who don't know about Scientology and - say it with me - Keep. Scientology. Working!

'

[GiGi_41]

I asked him about what he learned and then went on to describe in more detail the story of God sending his son to be born to a human mother and grow up and be sacrificed/crucified. I was raised in a pentecostal church, so these moments are always a little striking to me.--that he would be so unfamiliar with such a huge symbol from my own upbringing (which I'm happy about), and how utterly unbelievable such a story sounds when it's presented as the literal truth, which, of course, was not how I presented it.

D

Ok my littlest is almost 3. We live next to a cemetery and sometimes we walk through on our way to the park. The priests plots have a big memorial cross with Jesus hanging from it. She always wants to take the baby rocks away from the memorial. She says baby rocks don't belong there. The funny thing is one of the priests buried there supposedly was inappropriate with children.

Then there is a big statue of Jesus in front of the church arms open. She wants to know why he's always standing there. I told in my sarcastic voice, well these people think he's god and so the statue helps them remember that because they forget a lot.

[laura oz]

You must really enjoy my avatar picture, then.

People don't realise the quote on there is an actual quote from that KSW video. He really did say "I want to romp and play ...but I can't". Not because he's a celebrity, mind you. Because he will never rest while there are people out there who don't know about Scientology and - say it with me - Keep. Scientology. Working!

'

You have no idea :lol: At least he has his head turned a little, but the pic with the black turtleneck makes me flash back to that video every. single. time. I think it'a a compulsion :confusion-shrug: I remember the quote, and a lot of other things that were said because once you hear that kind of crazy you can't unhear it and it sticks in your head Not enough brain bleach in the world to get rid of that.

[Vex]

I would love to know the conditions surrounding the making of that video. Was it DM's idea or was it Tom's? Did they pay him or did he 'donate' his 'talents'? Was it scripted at all, and if not, why did they allow him to just ramble and make a total ass of himself? Why was he rambling in the first place? Had he gone 48 hours without sleep before filming? Did the evil psychs slip something into his drink?

He sounded legitimately insane during the video, especially when he lets loose with that manic laughter.

It wasn't just Tom, though. I'm not sure if it's included in every version of that video, but the version I saw was in the context of some kind of award ceremony/black tie function where TC was getting some kind of bogus award from the church, and it had a narration track that broke in occasionally. That voice over was clearly scripted, but the quality was dreadful. There was a lot of repetition and grammatical errors. Stuff like this:

"But if that's what Mr. Cruise has brought to this world, there still remains one more word on the man. Call it 'Tom Cruise on Tom Cruise: Scientologist."

See what I mean? It's almost as if it were written by someone who doesn't speak English as their first language.

Perhaps the worst part was the Mission Impossible musak in the background on an endless loop though. Ugh.

I saw some people ask how people can possibly get sucked into this stuff. The truth is, their sales tactics are pretty brilliant. Evil but brilliant. First they try to hook you into buying the preliminary courses by doing a free personality test. No matter how you score, they'll tell you that you have problems and Scientology courses can make it better. If you get the best possible scores across the board they'll say that you're surpressing your issues. Scientology can help with that! If you're antisocial or alone, Scientology can teach you how to communicate! That sort of thing.

The very earliest courses are already about learning to ignore criticism, ratting on the people who cause you problems and learning to not ask questions/accept what you're told. They drill that into you HARD. They will not let you progress until the auditors are completely satisfied that you are progressing the way you should progress. They also love bomb you at the start, and any good thing that happens to you is called a 'win' and you are excessively praised for it. They don't sell you the stuff about SPs or PTS (potential trouble source) or Disconnection or the insane Space Opera story until you've progressed far enough in that you'll buy it. The early stuff they sell you is fairly benign.

People buy in, and those who get far enough in to learn about the crazier aspects have been conditioned to accept it. It's not so strange when you see the conditioning methods, especially when you remember than when a lot of people got into it none of the crazier aspects of the religion were out there, floating around on the internet for anyone to read. CO$ explicitly tell you not to google Scientology or read articles by detractors. The people who doggedly run around Facebook reporting posts and defending the religion are often Scientologists who are trying to get back into good standing with the church after a scandal or attempt to break away, they're usually not regular members of the cult.

If you're interested in seeing exactly how they sell it to people and how each step conditions the buyer to trust the cult more, I recommend the Up the Bridge series from Tony Ortega's site: http://tonyortega.org/category/up-the-bridge/ (the first one is 'Today, You Begin Your Training as a Scientologist').

[GeoBQn]

I love this parody of the Tom Cruise video.

L5Zv3X_Hlck

[laura oz]

I would love to know the conditions surrounding the making of that video. Was it DM's idea or was it Tom's? Did they pay him or did he 'donate' his 'talents'? Was it scripted at all, and if not, why did they allow him to just ramble and make a total ass of himself? Why was he rambling in the first place? Had he gone 48 hours without sleep before filming? Did the evil psychs slip something into his drink?

He sounded legitimately insane during the video, especially when he lets loose with that manic laughter.

It wasn't just Tom, though. I'm not sure if it's included in every version of that video, but the version I saw was in the context of some kind of award ceremony/black tie function where TC was getting some kind of bogus award from the church, and it had a narration track that broke in occasionally. That voice over was clearly scripted, but the quality was dreadful. There was a lot of repetition and grammatical errors. Stuff like this:

"But if that's what Mr. Cruise has brought to this world, there still remains one more word on the man. Call it 'Tom Cruise on Tom Cruise: Scientologist."

See what I mean? It's almost as if it were written by someone who doesn't speak English as their first language.

Perhaps the worst part was the Mission Impossible musak in the background on an endless loop though. Ugh.

I saw some people ask how people can possibly get sucked into this stuff. The truth is, their sales tactics are pretty brilliant. Evil but brilliant. First they try to hook you into buying the preliminary courses by doing a free personality test. No matter how you score, they'll tell you that you have problems and Scientology courses can make it better. If you get the best possible scores across the board they'll say that you're surpressing your issues. Scientology can help with that! If you're antisocial or alone, Scientology can teach you how to communicate! That sort of thing.

The very earliest courses are already about learning to ignore criticism, ratting on the people who cause you problems and learning to not ask questions/accept what you're told. They drill that into you HARD. They will not let you progress until the auditors are completely satisfied that you are progressing the way you should progress. They also love bomb you at the start, and any good thing that happens to you is called a 'win' and you are excessively praised for it. They don't sell you the stuff about SPs or PTS (potential trouble source) or Disconnection or the insane Space Opera story until you've progressed far enough in that you'll buy it. The early stuff they sell you is fairly benign.

People buy in, and those who get far enough in to learn about the crazier aspects have been conditioned to accept it. It's not so strange when you see the conditioning methods, especially when you remember than when a lot of people got into it none of the crazier aspects of the religion were out there, floating around on the internet for anyone to read. CO$ explicitly tell you not to google Scientology or read articles by detractors. The people who doggedly run around Facebook reporting posts and defending the religion are often Scientologists who are trying to get back into good standing with the church after a scandal or attempt to break away, they're usually not regular members of the cult.

If you're interested in seeing exactly how they sell it to people and how each step conditions the buyer to trust the cult more, I recommend the Up the Bridge series from Tony Ortega's site: http://tonyortega.org/category/up-the-bridge/ (the first one is 'Today, You Begin Your Training as a Scientologist').

I remember seeing that ceremony. L Ron had a fascination with the military, and that's why they did that weird salute and wear the uniforms and have the Sea Org. According to Marty I-forgot-his-last-name who was Tom's auditor, Dave is always sucking up to Cruise and telling him how great he is, how he's brought so many, many people to the church, how the world would benefit so much if he was a political leader like Reagan or The Ahnald, how most people just aren't enlightened enough "to get it", and it must be such a burden on Tom to have that great understanding weighing so heavily on his shoulders. :kiss-ass:

Then he reads the explicit details of Tom's audits to people in his office and laughs because it's usually stuff about sexual secrets. I'm not saying he's closeted like Travolta, but the way it was written it sure made it sound that way.

[rward]

Acupuncture doesn't belong there.

Multiple studies have shown you get the same results whether you use the needles or not, and no matter where you stick the needles.

The placebo effect can not be overestimated.

[lilwriter85]

I think it's great that she wrote up the littlest GMD, and that she's outspoken.

But. I can't forgive her for the bullshit she spouted in Scientology and Me. She knew about Shelly at the time. She had written DM up at the time. She was questioning the CO$ at the time. But she still went on camera and spread Scientology lies.

I still get furious when I think about Kirsty Alley (who I used to like and admire) saying 'Would you ask a Jew if his religion was a cult?'. How dare she compare a 'religion' made up by a LSD junkie 50 years ago to Judaism? And besides, if Judaism espoused such things as disconnection, SPs, PTS and demanded you pay them every step of the way to learn the torah, you bet your ASS I'd be calling that a cult.

Those celebrities straight-up lied their asses off in those interviews.

A lot of people argue that the celebrities never see the nasty face of Scientology, but Leah certainly say it. We know she wrote up DM, we know she asked where Shelly was, we know she saw problems within the religion and was aware of their SP and disconnection policies, we know she knew about the whole thetan/xenu thing because of her level within the church.

I can't get behind Leah because she was being a hypocrite, knowing everything that was wrong in the church and lying and shilling for it regardless.

Evidence that Leah has been critical of the church in the past:

(I am not breaking the links, I don't see any reason to)

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/08/scient ... es-shelly/

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/05/has-le ... ientology/

I agree with this. I also liked Kirstie years ago because of Cheers and Fat Actress. I lost respect for her after that whole rant in that documentary. I think the only Scientology celeb right now that seems likable and not too looney is Michael Pena.

[BoomerLynn]

Holy Shit. :pink-shock: I just watched that Tom Cruise video and didn't even make it 4 minutes into his rambling. I have no idea what the fuck he is talking about. He sounds like he is waxing philosophical while stoned out of his mind. If that is the result of Scientology I'll pass. Not that there's a snowball's chance in hell I would have considered it anyway. As a matter of fact, a COS recently (in the last year or so) opened up not too far from me. They were offering free stress tests at our local flea market once, and before I realized who it was I joked with my husband that I'd probably break the machine. After seeing LRH's Dianetics book plastered everywhere all I could do was laugh uncontrollably while (loudly) asking who would fall for that crap. I cannot believe they have enough local people interested to warrant having a "church" here.

[duplessis3]

In fairness to Remini - her whole family is CO$, and the church has a strong stand on subversives - you don't speak to them at all, ever. Kate Bornstein talks about this - she hasn't seen her children in over 20 years. So it takes a willingness to never ever see or speak to your mom again, possibly divorce etc. And like many people she probably thought that the good outweighed the bad, just like people are still members of the Catholic church after the systematic coverup of molestation came out.

[Vex]

I'm not sure if everyone is aware, but Tommy Davis (ex-international spokesperson for the 'church', accompanies Tom Cruise all over the place, the guy who bragged he could drive the filmaker from Scientology & Me 'psychotic', the guy who said the church has no disconnection policy) has left the church. People still aren't sure about the circumstances, but he's out.

No wonder Kirsty Alley is freaking out and calling emergency celeb meetings.

I thought I couldn't possibly respect her any less, but after seeing her mean girl antics aimed at Leah on Twitter... the words 'see you next tuesday' come to mind.

Kirsty sent a tweet to say how much she loves being over at -insert twitter user name's- house. Twitter user name happens to be Leah's longtime best friend... or she WAS her best friend before she disconnected. And Kirsty Alley is posting public tweets about how much she loooves hanging out at this person's house for Leah to see. She also made several other posts basically calling Lean a traitor. Really petty, mean stuff.

This is the true face of Scientology, make no mistake.

[FreeJosie]

Same here.

Me as well. I can't stand him.

[lilwriter85]

From Tony Ortega's blog more backstory on how Leah Remini and her family got into COS.

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/18/leah-r ... #more-8569

(Not breaking the link because it is Tony Ortega's blog and he likes it being spread around)

[socalrules]

One of my issues with Scientology is that I don't understand why you have to pay so much money and pass classes to learn more about your faith. If all the information isn't made available to you right away, then how do you know they aren't making it up as they go along or if the "beliefs" don't change because the leader has suddenly had a revelation? Anyway, I cannot join a religion where the highest members are actors. I could not take it seriously that Tom "couch jumping" Cruise is something like the number two person in the religion. How does this not seem odd to people? The rich and famous can make it to the top but the regular people are never going to be able to afford to get clear.

[Savoring Samsara]

One of my issues with Scientology is that I don't understand why you have to pay so much money and pass classes to learn more about your faith. If all the information isn't made available to you right away, then how do you know they aren't making it up as they go along or if the "beliefs" don't change because the leader has suddenly had a revelation? Anyway, I cannot join a religion where the highest members are actors. I could not take it seriously that Tom "couch jumping" Cruise is something like the number two person in the religion. How does this not seem odd to people? The rich and famous can make it to the top but the regular people are never going to be able to afford to get clear.

There's a long-standing, cross-cultural history of "mystery religions" in which certain truths are only revealed to people who have been initiated or have reached a certain level within the faith. Wicca is a non-Scientology contemporary example of this. The difference is that a) in Wicca it is EXTREMELY taboo to expect anyone to pay for their initiation beyond stuff like the cost of any books your coven might expect you to read, and b) the initiatory mysteries of Wicca mainly have to do with things like the form of the group's worship and the particular names that the coven uses for the Divine, not the basic concepts of the religion itself. As a non-Wiccan pagan myself, I support that type of "not making all the information available to you right away" because it can form very strong and sacred bonds within members of a group to have certain aspects of your spiritual practice that are not shared with others. The difference between this and Scientology is that nobody who initiates in a Wiccan coven is going to get to that circle and be like, "wait, what? We worship a Goddess and a Horned God? This is the first I'm hearing about this." From what I understand, the stuff that is kept secret in Scientology is less "here are some prayers we don't teach to n00bs" and more stuff along the lines of if Christianity kept the crucifixion story secret from everyone but priests.

[lilwriter85]

]One of my issues with Scientology is that I don't understand why you have to pay so much money and pass classes to learn more about your faith. If all the information isn't made available to you right away, then how do you know they aren't making it up as they go along or if the "beliefs" don't change because the leader has suddenly had a revelation? Anyway, I cannot join a religion where the highest members are actors. I could not take it seriously that Tom "couch jumping" Cruise is something like the number two person in the religion. How does this not seem odd to people? The rich and famous can make it to the top but the regular people are never going to be able to afford to get clear.

That is one of my issues with Scientology too, you don't get the full skinny until or join or keep paying more money for courses. The Church of Latter Day Saints is also heavily criticized for not giving new recruits the full skinny. I remember one FJer described Mormonism as "Scientology with added Jesus". I kind of agree with that based on some of the beliefs of both groups. On the exmormon forums, people have mentioned being harassed after they leave LDS. Ex-Scientologists are also harassed but in more extreme ways.

[fakepigtails73]

In fairness to Remini - her whole family is CO$, and the church has a strong stand on subversives - you don't speak to them at all, ever. Kate Bornstein talks about this - she hasn't seen her children in over 20 years. So it takes a willingness to never ever see or speak to your mom again, possibly divorce etc. And like many people she probably thought that the good outweighed the bad, just like people are still members of the Catholic church after the systematic coverup of molestation came out.

The COS is terrible. I don't understand how anyone in North America would join it in 2013, with everything available online.

Their cruel disconnect policy when a member leaves,the suppressive persons designations on their so-called "enemies", the families it shattered,Paulette Cooper, Operation Snowwhite, LRH joking in a bar with pals in the 50s that he should start a new religion to make some easy $$, the many deaths of non celeb adherents and the utmost indifference of the church to them, the fact that they are so litigious, also the fact that they'll start harassing and stalking campaigns when a former member of the leadership leaves the cult and blogs about his (or her) experiences-the COS is doing this so that the person harassed gets fed up and throws the first punch, voilà! instant assalt charges on harasseee, the way they treat young members of Sea Org, their Narconon detox centers, the courses on battling dyslexia that they sell to the genral public without disclosing at first that they are the COS, the longtime leadership personnel who have simply "disappeared" over the years (and the rumours of where they are are not for the faint of heart), Jenna Elfman who is likely their most fanatical celebrity member (yup, even more than Tom Cruise), pestering the IRS so much over the years that they relented and gave them their religion designation, the fact that they spend massive amount of $$ to lobby successive US govts which mean that the State Dept. end up every two years or soputting their noses in other countries's internal policy to wag their finger at them because according to Washington: "countries that do not recognize the COS as an official religion do not respect religious freedoms"-Germany and France, among others, consider Sciento. as a dangerous group that must be under surveillance-...And I could go on like this with much more stuff.

If it was only their bizarre beliefs I wouldn't care, so what, but it's the way they act that angers me and creeps me out. And even re: their beliefs, maybe there are others like that but I can't name another religion where one has to give a certain amount of $$ and follow X # of classes before learning their core beliefs...

I never was a member of the COS, no member of my family where taken in by them nor any of my friends...

Read Tony Ortega's articles on the blog of the Village Voice and on his new blog. Worth the the time.

ETA: When one is born into it like Leah R. it is dif. and it will be terrible for her if her family decides to "disconnect" from her... :(

[lilwriter85]

The COS is terrible. I don't understand how anyone in North America would join it in 2013, with everything available online.

Their cruel disconnect policy when a member leaves,the suppressive persons designations on their so-called "enemies", the families it shattered,Paulette Cooper, Operation Snowwhite, LRH joking in a bar with pals in the 50s that he should start a new religion to make some easy $$, the many deaths of non celeb adherents and the utmost indifference of the church to them, the fact that they are so litigious, also the fact that they'll start harassing and stalking campaigns when a former member of the leadership leaves the cult and blogs about his (or her) experiences-the COS is doing this so that the person harassed gets fed up and throws the first punch, voilà! instant assalt charges on harasseee, the way they treat young members of Sea Org, their Narconon detox centers, the courses on battling dyslexia that they sell to the genral public without disclosing at first that they are the COS, the longtime leadership personnel who have simply "disappeared" over the years (and the rumours of where they are are not for the faint of heart), Jenna Elfman who is likely their most fanatical celebrity member (yup, even more than Tom Cruise), pestering the IRS so much over the years that they relented and gave them their religion designation, the fact that they spend massive amount of $$ to lobby successive US govts which mean that the State Dept. end up every two years or soputting their noses in other countries's internal policy to wag their finger at them because according to Washington: "countries that do not recognize the COS as an official religion do not respect religious freedoms"-Germany and France, among others, consider Sciento. as a dangerous group that must be under surveillance-...And I could go on like this with much more stuff.

If it was only their bizarre beliefs I wouldn't care, so what, but it's the way they act that angers me and creeps me out. And even re: their beliefs, maybe there are others like that but I can't name another religion where one has to give a certain amount of $$ and follow X # of classes before learning their core beliefs...

I never was a member of the COS, no member of my family where taken in by them nor any of my friends...

Read Tony Ortega's articles on the blog of the Village Voice and on his new blog. Worth the the time.

ETA: When one is born into it like Leah R. it is dif. and it will be terrible for her if her family decides to "disconnect" from her... :(

I think COS is losing power. There are efforts in Oklahoma and Georgia to deal with and defeat the Narconon centers there. Ex Narconon employees have spoken out against Narconon and COS. A lot of attention is being given to COS these days. Tony Ortega and Lawrence Wright get a lot of attention and many ex-Scientologists like Nancy Many, Tory Christman and others have spoke out. There is Hollywood gossip that COS is struggling to reel in more celebs. I think some of the celebs who converted to COS are sometimes not the sharpest tools. Something about Kirstie Alley gives off a very gullible vibe.

I will say that when it comes to celebs who were raised in COS, Leah seems to be bright compared to people like Danny and Chris Masterson. The Masterson brothers spout out a lot of the anti-psychiarity stuff and Danny especially seems dim. Elisabeth Moss from Mad Men is second generation Scientologist and she doesn't seem an like idiot like the Mastersons. I'm glad Leah at least go out.

[duplessis3]

I don't like religions that make people cut off ties with those no longer in it (just to clarify.) I call those "cults" regardless of how big they are. It does seem like it is easier to get out now although the years of brainwashing...

[pimpom]

Noooh, not Elisabeth Moss! :o :(

[Margaery]

Noooh, not Elisabeth Moss! :o :(

That's exactly what I just thought! If its any consolation, I recently listened to an interview with her on NPR and I don't recall her even mentioning it. So hopefully it's not as creepy of an obsession as it is for Kirstie Alley. Especially with it negatively being back in the spotlight, I sure wouldn't glorify it!

[lilwriter85]

Elisabeth Moss was born into COS and her father is some kind of higher up in the church. According to the Scientology Celebrity blog, she is rarely seen at COS events in L.A. But she recently praised Scientology in an interview.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainme ... ientology/

[laura oz]

I'm not sure if everyone is aware, but Tommy Davis (ex-international spokesperson for the 'church', accompanies Tom Cruise all over the place, the guy who bragged he could drive the filmaker from Scientology & Me 'psychotic', the guy who said the church has no disconnection policy) has left the church. People still aren't sure about the circumstances, but he's out.

No wonder Kirsty Alley is freaking out and calling emergency celeb meetings.

I thought I couldn't possibly respect her any less, but after seeing her mean girl antics aimed at Leah on Twitter... the words 'see you next tuesday' come to mind.

Kirsty sent a tweet to say how much she loves being over at -insert twitter user name's- house. Twitter user name happens to be Leah's longtime best friend... or she WAS her best friend before she disconnected. And Kirsty Alley is posting public tweets about how much she loooves hanging out at this person's house for Leah to see. She also made several other posts basically calling Lean a traitor. Really petty, mean stuff.

This is the true face of Scientology, make no mistake.

That person who KA was bragging about wasn't just LR's best friend, but her child's godmother. KA is a hag.