John Shrader in Burundi

[scc12]

'Printer' may mean nothing more than he has a printer that comes w his computer.

I agree,more questions need to be answered.Even if I had the money,there is NO WAY I would agree to help sponsor such an undertaking.John needs to think of his family FIRST.Esp. given the fact they will likely pop out more babies,and I'm not certain of the quality of medical care there (although it appears John doesn't take his wife to the Dr. as it is).

Still,if they keep going at it,Esther,like Michelle,may likely need medical intervention and or more than one C-section for lack of uterine tone (baby sideways,stalled labor,etc.).Given that she was in labor w the last one for 11 days,it appears she has that already.

[scc12]

Not to take up for John at all,but as far as them paying for the cab and drinks,this is a good reason why it's damaging to visit some of the poor ppl over there.

I know back when MckMama went to Africa,a poor family sacrificed one of their goats for her.I asked why didn't she just say she was vegan,so they didn't expend their resources on her,and someone said it would have been a severe insult to them to refuse what they offered.You are supposed to accept it graciously.

It wasn't one of her supporters,and I'm not an expert on it,that's just what I was told.

[RosyDaisy]

Sorry, at this point, I'm not buying anything that John Shrader says. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has been outright lying about most of the things he posts. I do feel sorry for Esther and the kids for being stuck with that jerk.

[Fluffles]

I'm disappointed in Eddy and Arnaud. I was so hoping that, if they contacted John at all it would be to say that after consulting with the elders of their families or tribe, they had decided that they would not be abetting any more of John's batshit craziness.

What's to say that Eddy and Arnaud wont "slip" again when they don't have John to encourage them? images/smilies/emoticons/crazy.gif :cray-cray: posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=597944#

[formergothardite]

Their faith in John's religion can't be too strong if they can't even keep up the act for a few days while John is there.

[Palimpsest]

Not to take up for John at all,but as far as them paying for the cab and drinks,this is a good reason why it's damaging to visit some of the poor ppl over there.

I know back when MckMama went to Africa,a poor family sacrificed one of their goats for her.I asked why didn't she just say she was vegan,so they didn't expend their resources on her,and someone said it would have been a severe insult to them to refuse what they offered.You are supposed to accept it graciously.

It wasn't one of her supporters,and I'm not an expert on it,that's just what I was told.

Well, yes. And, a qualified no.

Yes, it would be extremely rude to reject offered hospitality. Offering food and drink to a visitor is a societal norm in many/most cultures. Particularly so in most East African countries. (Disclaimer, I have never been to Burundi.)

However, it is perfectly polite to set reasonable, tactful, limits on what type of hospitality you will accept. For example, you can tactfully say you are vegetarian or do not eat red meat to limit the festive meals. MckMama could easily have told her handlers that she was vegetarian to limit meals to what people could easily afford. Killing (rather than sacrificing :) ) a goat is a huge deal and represents a very luxurious meal.

There is usually plenty of time to set a polite limit even if you are an unexpected guest. "Meat" is kept alive until the last minute in places where there is no refrigeration, so she could have very politely fended off the goat meal and suggested chicken (a cheaper but still celebratory meal) instead.

On the cokes and soft drinks: It is the polite norm to offer bottled drinks to Westerners because (if they have any sense at all) they will not be drinking water or milk unless it has been boiled. Or asking for ice in their cokes, or eating anything that has not been cooked -- so salads are out. You cannot assume that the water supply is safe, or that milk is not contaminated with bacteria or tuberculosis, diphtheria, listeriosis, typhoid fever or brucellosis. It is OK, polite, and often cheaper for your host, to request hot (boiled) tea or coffee without milk instead of expensive bottled drinks.

It is also perfectly polite to bring a contribution to the food budget, or another useful gift, and present it to the host after the meal. John Shrader could have arrived for dinner with a crate of soft drinks or a brace of live chickens and presented them to his host family. If they demur at accepting them, as they probably will at first, then he should tell them that it would give him enormous pleasure to present these items to their children. That would be acceptable.

Shrader seems to think all he has to do is preach and toss a bible or some tracts at his hosts while possibly eating their food budget for a week. Or a month. I do hope he isn't cleaning his plate. That would indicate to many East Africans that he has not had enough food so that they will bring him more. It is polite to leave a mouthful or two on the plate to show that you are satisfied.

[Palimpsest]

What's to say that Eddy and Arnaud wont "slip" again when they don't have John to encourage them? http://www.freejinger.org/forums/images ... /crazy.gif :cray-cray: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/postin ... &p=597944#

I'm hoping that Eddy's wife Anita has set up a stall in the marketplace to sell all the surplus tracts John left with them. The sign on the stall reads, "Luxury Toilet Paper Imported Direct from the USA!"

[scc12]

Well, yes. And, a qualified no.

Yes, it would be extremely rude to reject offered hospitality. Offering food and drink to a visitor is a societal norm in many/most cultures. Particularly so in most East African countries. (Disclaimer, I have never been to Burundi.)

However, it is perfectly polite to set reasonable, tactful, limits on what type of hospitality you will accept. For example, you can tactfully say you are vegetarian or do not eat red meat to limit the festive meals. MckMama could easily have told her handlers that she was vegetarian to limit meals to what people could easily afford. Killing (rather than sacrificing :) ) a goat is a huge deal and represents a very luxurious meal.

There is usually plenty of time to set a polite limit even if you are an unexpected guest. "Meat" is kept alive until the last minute in places where there is no refrigeration, so she could have very politely fended off the goat meal and suggested chicken (a cheaper but still celebratory meal) instead.

On the cokes and soft drinks: It is the polite norm to offer bottled drinks to Westerners because (if they have any sense at all) they will not be drinking water or milk unless it has been boiled. Or asking for ice in their cokes, or eating anything that has not been cooked -- so salads are out. You cannot assume that the water supply is safe, or that milk is not contaminated with bacteria or tuberculosis, diphtheria, listeriosis, typhoid fever or brucellosis. It is OK, polite, and often cheaper for your host, to request hot (boiled) tea or coffee without milk instead of expensive bottled drinks.

It is also perfectly polite to bring a contribution to the food budget, or another useful gift, and present it to the host after the meal. John Shrader could have arrived for dinner with a crate of soft drinks or a brace of live chickens and presented them to his host family. If they demur at accepting them, as they probably will at first, then he should tell them that it would give him enormous pleasure to present these items to their children. That would be acceptable.

Shrader seems to think all he has to do is preach and toss a bible or some tracts at his hosts while possibly eating their food budget for a week. Or a month. I do hope he isn't cleaning his plate. That would indicate to many East Africans that he has not had enough food so that they will bring him more. It is polite to leave a mouthful or two on the plate to show that you are satisfied.

Thank you! That is interesting.I didn't know all of that. :)

And yes,sacrificing=wrong word.I certainly hope they didn't think of MckMama as a God.LOL.I meant to convey they gave up a lot in order to feed her a meal by killing one of their goats.

[Lillybee]

I find John's disregard for the security of his wife and children beyond the pale.

[slickcat79]

2. Aviation? Yes, they apparently have bought a small plane. How will that help them support their ministry? Are they setting up an aviation business in Zambia? With what seed money? What will they transport? Do they have pilot's licenses, even?

The plane was previously used by another missionary, and the money to puchase it (at a great price!) was donated to John by some dude. You can see his Mar 15th entry for more details on the plane. I'm still curious if they've actually seen the plane in person, or tried to start it. Seems like leaving a plane sitting around for months with who-knows-what security or maintenance is a good way to end up with a completely nonfunctional plane. Which assumes that the plane actually exists in the first place. Being able to buy a plane that's being stored in another country on the other side of the world for like half what it's worth sounds like the new Nigerian wire transfer scam :?

I don't think they're setting up an aviation business, or planning to transport anything except themselves. Since it seems like they plan to travel around large parts of southern Africa, I guess they figure having the plane will save them from "footing", hailing the navy, or getting someone else to buy cab rides for them. John is in the process of getting his pilot's license, and he talks about his training on Feb 4th. He will be completing 50 WHOLE HOURS of training before trying to fly himself around unfamiliar terrain in a questionable aircraft. I just hope he doesn't take any of the kids up with him :|

3. Printing? Do they have a printing press? Where is it? What are they going to print other than tracts?

On Jun 4 John talks about his need for printing equipment. Apparently some guy is going to "work overtime" for an ENTIRE YEAR and give John the money to buy 2 large office printers and 2 tons of paper. AFAIK they will be printing tracts, booklets and other missionary materials.

This thing where John drags his family around the country in a popup camper is his "deputation", where he is earning money for the Zambian mission. He talks a lot about getting different churches to take them on for support, and I think he mentioned that they were halfway to their goal earlier this year. People seem to give them astonishing amounts of money for absolutely no reason. Of course, all this is John talking so who knows how much will actually come through, but he is very good at grifting.

I have no idea what they're going to do about work permits and whatnot. I also wonder about the tax implications of all these donations. Just waiting to hear about John being persecuted by the IRS.

[Palimpsest]

Thanks Slickcat79, for giving the dates for those entries. That was very helpful. :D

Yes, according to his thermometer graph he is now at 60% of his goal, but here is another problem:

He never says what his goal is! He could be raking in cash in handfuls for all we know.

Why on earth are people giving him money without seeing even a basic budget from him? It boggles the mind. I'd like to see a breakdown please. Cost of travel to Zambia for both Shrader and Rea families. Estimated cost of housing and all living expenses broken down monthly. Estimated costs for maintaining and fueling the plane, and so on.

As it is, he is never specific about anything. He doesn't even seem to have a wish list so that if he makes a purchase he can say that God provided just what he needed. He writes "praise" entries on FB when someone gives him something, or a church decides to sponsor him, or he buys a plane cheap, which strikes me as an incredibly extravagant purchase at this stage, or some poor sucker volunteers to work overtime for a year to pay for the printers and paper. :shock:

That last one really pissed me off. John Schrader is lazing around on an extended vacation, having fun at the Creation Museum and trotting off to Burundi while preaching and grifting his way to Africa. He is literally living off the hard work and charity of others and begging to provide for his 8 children. It is repulsive.

BTW, he has a sister, Sarah Schrader Waller living in Texas who has pancreatic cancer :( . Is she married to one of David Waller's family?

[gustava]

Thanks Slickcat79, for giving the dates for those entries. That was very helpful. :D

Yes, according to his thermometer graph he is now at 60% of his goal, but here is another problem:

He never says what his goal is! He could be raking in cash in handfuls for all we know.

Why on earth are people giving him money without seeing even a basic budget from him? It boggles the mind. I'd like to see a breakdown please. Cost of travel to Zambia for both Shrader and Rea families. Estimated cost of housing and all living expenses broken down monthly. Estimated costs for maintaining and fueling the plane, and so on.

As it is, he is never specific about anything. He doesn't even seem to have a wish list so that if he makes a purchase he can say that God provided just what he needed. He writes "praise" entries on FB when someone gives him something, or a church decides to sponsor him, or he buys a plane cheap, which strikes me as an incredibly extravagant purchase at this stage, or some poor sucker volunteers to work overtime for a year to pay for the printers and paper. :shock:

That last one really pissed me off. John Schrader is lazing around on an extended vacation, having fun at the Creation Museum and trotting off to Burundi while preaching and grifting his way to Africa. He is literally living off the hard work and charity of others and begging to provide for his 8 children. It is repulsive.

BTW, he has a sister, Sarah Schrader Waller living in Texas who has pancreatic cancer :( . Is she married to one of David Waller's family?

Link to graph, please?

[Palimpsest]

The graph is on his Facebook. He updates it irregularly. In December 2012 it was at 38%. On May 26 he says they are around 60%. This is after he found another sucker to buy him a plane in Zambia. The one he can't fly yet.

I too wonder when the IRS is going to start persecuting him.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

The graph is on his Facebook. He updates it irregularly. In December 2012 it was at 38%. On May 26 he says they are around 60%. This is after he found another sucker to buy him a plane in Zambia. The one he can't fly yet.

I too wonder when the IRS is going to start persecuting him.

Sorry, non US citizen here. Why would the tax people be after him?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Also I'm his friend on Facebook on my other profile. And his audacity as to believing there are the right kind of Christians and the wrong kind is mind boggling.

I have never heard that before!!!

[snickerz]

I'm predicting that he will end up killing himself in that plane. Several times when he had car problems he would ask for prayers that the car would get to such-and-such destination without breaking down. I can totally see him doing that with the plane, too. Engine problems? Just ask for prayers, and let's take her up!

[GeoBQn]

And if anybody on Facebook dared to ask for an itemized list of expenses before donating, John would post another wall of text saying that people who "care about money" are not "leaving it up to G-d."

[Palimpsest]

Sorry, non US citizen here. Why would the tax people be after him?

Unreported taxable income. "Love Offerings" from preaching and donations (cash, cars and sundries) count as income. Shrader is not "off the grid" in the Gabe Anast sense in that he previously owned a home (now sold) and worked as a car salesman/pastor before he quit those jobs to pursue his dream. He should have been paying taxes all along. It is very unclear how much money he is pulling in these days.

He should have set up a 501©3 or perhaps 501©4 for his charity "mission to Zambia" and paid himself a basic (taxable) salary from those donated funds. Taxes are not my area of expertise, obviously!

It will probably take the IRS ages to catch up to him though. If it ever does, he will squeal "ebil Gubment persecution!!!!!!!!!eleventy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[scc12]

Thanks Slickcat79, for giving the dates for those entries. That was very helpful. :D

Yes, according to his thermometer graph he is now at 60% of his goal, but here is another problem:

He never says what his goal is! He could be raking in cash in handfuls for all we know.

Why on earth are people giving him money without seeing even a basic budget from him? It boggles the mind. I'd like to see a breakdown please. Cost of travel to Zambia for both Shrader and Rea families. Estimated cost of housing and all living expenses broken down monthly. Estimated costs for maintaining and fueling the plane, and so on.

As it is, he is never specific about anything. He doesn't even seem to have a wish list so that if he makes a purchase he can say that God provided just what he needed. He writes "praise" entries on FB when someone gives him something, or a church decides to sponsor him, or he buys a plane cheap, which strikes me as an incredibly extravagant purchase at this stage, or some poor sucker volunteers to work overtime for a year to pay for the printers and paper. :shock:

That last one really pissed me off. John Schrader is lazing around on an extended vacation, having fun at the Creation Museum and trotting off to Burundi while preaching and grifting his way to Africa. He is literally living off the hard work and charity of others and begging to provide for his 8 children. It is repulsive.

BTW, he has a sister, Sarah Schrader Waller living in Texas who has pancreatic cancer :( . Is she married to one of David Waller's family?

I agree,and wouldn't he need a business plan,if his is a non-profit? or even if not? I would think making it public would be a basic requirement.It doesn't sound legit or legal,but I could be wrong.He's flying under the radar (for now anyway) it seems.Butyes,the IRS will catch up to him at some point.

Someone said (on another thread I think) that his sister is not married into the same Waller family as David.

[scc12]

Sorry, non US citizen here. Why would the tax people be after him?

If they think he is not accurately reporting the donations,they can do an investigation on him.IIRC,working for yourself can send up a red flag to the IRS,as well as 'charitable missions' like the one John is doing.Someone else may know more though,so don't quote me. :)

[slickcat79]

Thanks Slickcat79, for giving the dates for those entries. That was very helpful. :D

Yes, according to his thermometer graph he is now at 60% of his goal, but here is another problem:

He never says what his goal is! He could be raking in cash in handfuls for all we know.

Why on earth are people giving him money without seeing even a basic budget from him? It boggles the mind. I'd like to see a breakdown please. Cost of travel to Zambia for both Shrader and Rea families. Estimated cost of housing and all living expenses broken down monthly. Estimated costs for maintaining and fueling the plane, and so on.

Clearly Satan is working through you, or you would not ask such things :angelic-halofell:

I was looking over his Team Zambia site (shrader.teamzambia.com/contact-us/) and he lists something called Global Independent Baptist Missions as his Support Address/Clearing House. I can't seem to find a functional website for that org, though. At first I thought this was it: ibmglobal.org/#2, but they don't lists the Shraders or the Reas under their list of missionaries. I can't seem to find a functional website for GIBM, but it's likely Shrader is funneling his donations through them as a non-profit.

Of course, that doesn't address any of the donations he's receiving now to support his family during "deputation" and I don't know how GIBM dispenses donations. And yes, a clear outline of goals and functional needs would make a lot of sense. The whole thing is very shady.

[JesusFightClub]

I...think that the Revenue pretty much always appreciate knowledge if it's not malicious and can be clearly backed up. I don't think the UK and the US differ there.

If anyone has that knowledge, I think reporting it would be helpful. Just saying.

[Palimpsest]

He has updated on Facebook. He sounds as high as a kite! I wonder if he has been munching on khat (Catha Edulis).

This is what God created me to do. This is what the Word of God commands us to do. This is the real world, where real people are dying and going to hell. I urge you to stay faithful where you are, there in America, or where ever, but everything I ever dreamed of as far as ministry in unfolding before my eyes.

Thank you for praying. We will be packing and flying out tomorrow.

Love you all in Christ Jesus,

John Shrader (for the team)

Summary of blocks and blocks of rambling text:

In only 10 days we have converted 3 men, and one precious woman. They are calling me an angel (as they should) and have invited me back. They will feed and house me as I disciple them because I won't be giving them any money. I have their testimony on video for any skeptics.

I gave them $2.00 copies of The Pilgrim's Progress which I'm sure they will find a blessing.

Next time I come to Burundi I'll take the concrete boat up Lake Tanganyika. That will be more frugal than spending US$1,000 on the plane fare from Zambia. [Why not fly your dinky little plane up, John? What? You haven't got your pilot's license yet and the plane only exists in pretty pictures. OK.]

My dreams are coming true. Praise the Lord!

[Savoring Samsara]

He has updated on Facebook. He sounds as high as a kite! I wonder if he has been munching on khat (Catha Edulis).

Summary of blocks and blocks of rambling text:

In only 10 days we have converted 3 men, and one precious woman. They are calling me an angel (as they should) and have invited me back. They will feed and house me as I disciple them because I won't be giving them any money. I have their testimony on video for any skeptics.

I gave them $2.00 copies of The Pilgrim's Progress which I'm sure they will find a blessing.

Next time I come to Burundi I'll take the concrete boat up Lake Tanganyika. That will be more frugal than spending US$1,000 on the plane fare from Zambia. [Why not fly your dinky little plane up, John? What? You haven't got your pilot's license yet and the plane only exists in pretty pictures. OK.]

My dreams are coming true. Praise the Lord!

I know that "concrete boat" is meant to be read as "a boat used to carry concrete," but every time I see that expression I interpret it as "a boat made out of concrete." That would be quite the conclusion to this missionary journey, and not out of character with the common sense displayed elsewhere by this guy: attempting to sail across Lake Tanganyika in a concrete boat.

[Fluffles]

Who paid for Johns trip to Burundi? Did he take it out of Team Zambia money of did God inspire some one to donate to him once again.

I couldn't imagine John being affiliated to any organisation. If he cant keep a job employed by somebody else, there is no way he would allow some Bona Fide group with rules and business plans to stifle him when doing Gods work!!!

However, maybe he does have a shopping list or business plan when asking churches for money. Surely, they wouldn't be so naïve as to just hand over money.