Plan B over the Counter Question

[OkToBeTakei]

Study on the sexual behaviour of teenage girls and their mother's knowledge/ attitudes in present day Israel.

http://www.dovepress.com/survey-of-opin ... mendation1

I think that you are in for a surprise, Oil.

Seriously!

The next time I read a poll about how many sampled Americans are against same sex marriage I will be sure to apply that to every single American in the country.

Apply any country you wish to the above sample.

[lilith]

Seriously!

The next time I read a poll about how many sampled Americans are against same sex marriage I will be sure to apply that to every single American in the country.

Apply any country you wish to the above sample.

Except I'm not applying it to Oil personally, I'm applying it to her statements about how Tel Aviv girls in general don't usually have sex as teenagers

[oil]

Seriously!

The next time I read a poll about how many sampled Americans are against same sex marriage I will be sure to apply that to every single American in the country.

Apply any country you wish to the above sample.

I like same-sex marriage, I swear! I spit on the law against them!

[OkToBeTakei]

Except I'm not applying it to Oil personally, I'm applying it to her statements about how Tel Aviv girls in general don't usually have sex as teenagers

314 pairs of women. Not exactly an exhaustive study.

[oil]

Except I'm not applying it to Oil personally, I'm applying it to her statements about how Tel Aviv girls in general don't usually have sex as teenagers

lilith, truly it is not like that, but yes very much outside the city area. But its too late for me, I have to sleep, working tomorrow which is already here. Ill come back tomorrow.

[Syd+Marky]

You sound like a really awesome, progressive mom. I bet your daughter really appreciates that she can be open with you about these things. :)

Thank you, I appreciate that very much.There are alot of areas I have trouble with when it comes to parenting(especially a teen), but I am thankful and grateful that I have been able to keep the lines of communication open, even a touchy subject like sex, birth control, and protection.Being honest with my daughter about my own experiences, mistakes, and feelings about those and other serious topics, seems to have helped alot when it comes to open communication.

Having an awesome, trusted Dr.has been great, too.

[Mama Mia]

That study really annoys me. I can not stand surveys where they take such a wide age range and try to ascribe a set of behaviors or opinions on any subject.

Putting everyone 15 to 24 in the same category is ridiculous. I'm sure there are many, many mothers who would feel very differently about sexual options for their 15 year old and their 24 year old.

I've seen lots of other studies where they group all "youth" together this way, generally to make one point or another, and it is really irritating. They do it to show things like binge drinking rates too... really stupid.

[oil]

I cant fucking sleep, so I am back.

The controversy of that statistic poll is that the rumor is the ones who were polled are mainly Russian emigrants. They have a different way to deal with sex issues of communication with their kids, like hardly any. The cultural Sabras (like my people) who have always lived here have diferent ways. When I was in the secondary school (High school USA type), one girl got pregnant and she was a Russian emigrant. The Russian way is to not do sex talk. The Ethiopian Jews who came here mostly wait for marriage for sex because thats their way they brought with them. The Sabra people (Not the Askenazi european Jews who emigrated here) have open speaking of sex to their kids. Our way is to be straight as I said, we are told bluntly no penis in vagina, just like that. We dont hear mother say "no sex". I think that make the difference to just be specific of the words.

For my opinion, I dont care the way some body else is taught for sex. I like OUR way but ok to them for their way. We are too busy caring about if maybe some one will put a bomb in the night club or market so dont care about what other people do for their sex. I may be dead tomorrow from a bomb, so I live my life my way that I was taught and have as much fun life as possible with out troubling my mind with their business. I dont care. Live and let live.

[Maggie Mae]

Wouldn't living in a situation where you are fearful every single day that you might die increase the rate of teen promiscuity? No day like today, better do why we can? We don't know what is going to happen in the future, so we better do it now?

When I was a teen, I lived in a reasonably safe city, and still lived as though the world would end tomorrow, so I took many risks. I blame the end of the world nonsense & an aunt for telling me that she was 100% positive that we were living in the end times and the world would be ending by 2007; and I read a lot. I'm pretty sure if I lived in a place where actual danger was eminent, I would have lost my virginity sooner.

[2xx1xy1JD]

From what I've seen, the general attitude in Tel Aviv is to focus on avoiding negative consequences instead of using them as a fear tactic to prevent kids from having sex. In general, Tel Aviv is not the sort of place where people hesitate to be straightforward about sex or anything else.

FWIW, I was certainly having teenage sex in Tel Aviv. With the full knowledge of my now-husband's family.

OTOH, we also had sex while touring the rest of the country with an Orthodox youth group, which was attempting to teach us to be "shomer negiah" (not touch the opposite sex before marriage - they'd yell out "no hands" if we even held hands). So, yeah, it's pretty hard to stop determined teens.

[RosyDaisy]

Seriously, you can't have safe sex without using condoms. There are these things called STDs. Why do some parents (not referring to FJ parents al all here) put as much emphasis on STDs as they do pregnancy? :angry-banghead: :doh:

Tteenage sex happens every where, even in heavily fundamentalist areas. If fact, there is no way you can convince me that fundie teens and young adults that attend ATI/VF conferences, church camps, etc. aren't sneaking off to get it on. In fact, it wouldn't shock me in the least if some of our prolific young fundie bloggers who preach purity have gotten some. :whistle:

[Minerva]

Minerva, some thing here on FJ I notice a lot is people jumping to conclusions or maybe better way to say it is they presume on purpose in a negative way. Like this: I never said I was opposed to Plan B being available for 15 year old girls. Also you say I will deliberately compromise my kids safety. Not true.

This is how I feel: condoms are every where. Postinor-2 and Postinor (Israeli Plan B pills) are every where and for free from free health care. My future kids will have protection and safety right there if they don't control them selves for sex at 15. But you know what, some kids have sex at 12 and they have to 15 to get Postinor from the pharmacy or clinic. So should I buy it and put it in their bed room drawer when they are 12 just in case they sex?? Where is the line of parenting?

I am not a moron, I will keep my kids safe and not just say KEEP THE ZAYINS OUT OF THE KOOS!!! But I will do it in my own way and not how this FJ tells me to do.

Any way, it's our tradition to control out self, just hand job each other until we get to uni or military, and then we have the best sex party! So my kids will have this to look for when they are 17! I hope you understand my feelings correctly, Minerva.

Thanks for clarifying. There is no standard FJ way of raising kids, but there are common sense things, like not forcing abstinence only sex ed on kids, and it sounds like we are in agreement about that.

[oil]

Wouldn't living in a situation where you are fearful every single day that you might die increase the rate of teen promiscuity? No day like today, better do why we can? We don't know what is going to happen in the future, so we better do it now?

When I was a teen, I lived in a reasonably safe city, and still lived as though the world would end tomorrow, so I took many risks. I blame the end of the world nonsense & an aunt for telling me that she was 100% positive that we were living in the end times and the world would be ending by 2007; and I read a lot. I'm pretty sure if I lived in a place where actual danger was eminent, I would have lost my virginity sooner.

I dont know for others, but even though sex is great there are so many others things to do. Having sex was not a big focus when I was 15 even though I was normal kid and looked forward to that.

I think your situation was a lot worse than mine because thinking of the end times seems like very traumatic, like to squeeze in every thing you can. I am sorry this happened to you because I think the fear you had is worse than the fear I have of bombs. I dont even think about it, I just know its there a possibility so have a good time. Wow yes, in my feelings your situation worse for emotionsal health. May be in that case I would have done sex very much sooner?? I dont know.

[Syd+Marky]

Oil-What it sounds like you're saying,to my understanding(after reading all of your posts and responses), is that you intend to teach your future children about abstinence and safety.It seems that your opinion on teaching abstinence stems from your cultural beliefs and upbringing.It also seems that you are well informed about safe sex, birth control options, and resources, and if I understood correctly, you intend to make this information available to any hypothetical, future children,while letting them know that your expectation for them is that they abstain from sex.I can respect that(not that you need my respect),as it's your right to instill your cultural values,provided that kids are given educational, and safety resources.

There is something that concerns me, though.Letting kids know what you expect of them is a good thing, as is teaching them your cultural values-I'm just not sure there is any kind or proper way to say "If you do *blank*,you will disgrace me and your family",to your kid.I don't see that keeping communication open.Sure, the last thing most kids want is to disgrace their family, but they're still going to do what they're going to do, and I worry that a child who fears becoming a disgrace will shut down, and not talk about it, if something does happen, possibly becoming depressed and wracked with guilt and shame.

I say this because it seems that you are able to take constructive criticism, and possibly apply it.You seem to be open to what others have to say, and truly think about it.If I thought I was wasting my time, I wouldn't bother.I think you get the fact that times are changing, and its possible to preserve your cultural ideals, and parent with the progressive times,simultaniously.

[oil]

There is something that concerns me, though.Letting kids know what you expect of them is a good thing, as is teaching them your cultural values-I'm just not sure there is any kind or proper way to say "If you do *blank*,you will disgrace me and your family",to your kid.I don't see that keeping communication open.Sure, the last thing most kids want is to disgrace their family, but they're still going to do what they're going to do, and I worry that a child who fears becoming a disgrace will shut down, and not talk about it, if something does happen, possibly becoming depressed and wracked with guilt and shame.

I say this because it seems that you are able to take constructive criticism, and possibly apply it.You seem to be open to what others have to say, and truly think about it.If I thought I was wasting my time, I wouldn't bother.I think you get the fact that times are changing, and its possible to preserve your cultural ideals, and parent with the progressive times,simultaniously.

Its hard to explain, but the "disgrace us" part is so common, its like laugh-able even though we take it seriously. The parents say that to kids all the time every day for some thing that we are used to it and it doesnt hurt or feel wrong to hear it. We laugh and say oh mama again again again, say something new to us mama! BUT we understand what they are meaning, how serious they want us to behave. When they say "you will disgrace me" they are really saying "please I am begging you be a obedient kid until you are graduate from school". This goes to my heart and my friends hearts, too. So we do it as best we can, but yes we still do disobeying some times, hell we were teens! lol

This is the way the Israeli Tel Avivian mamas are with their style of talking: (yes I will stereotype)

Before graduate>> Dont disgrace us with zayins in koos!!!!! (penis in vag)

After graduate>> If you dont get to the birth control I will drag you by your hair!

So you see we are used to it the WAY it is said, and it is not hurtful. In the next second of screaming at us, they kissing us and putting a fig in our mouths. Well, that is what I grew up with and my friends did, too.

My mam is the best, there was never some shyness talking about sex, even when I was little to listen to the women talk about sex lives. She says "you have to learn it but dont do it yet."

[Mama Mia]

Its hard to explain, but the "disgrace us" part is so common, its like laugh-able even though we take it seriously. The parents say that to kids all the time every day for some thing that we are used to it and it doesnt hurt or feel wrong to hear it. We laugh and say oh mama again again again, say something new to us mama! BUT we understand what they are meaning, how serious they want us to behave. When they say "you will disgrace me" they are really saying "please I am begging you be a obedient kid until you are graduate from school". This goes to my heart and my friends hearts, too. So we do it as best we can, but yes we still do disobeying some times, hell we were teens! lol

This is the way the Israeli Tel Avivian mamas are with their style of talking: (yes I will stereotype)

Before graduate>> Dont disgrace us with zayins in koos!!!!! (penis in vag)

After graduate>> If you dont get to the birth control I will drag you by your hair!

So you see we are used to it the WAY it is said, and it is not hurtful. In the next second of screaming at us, they kissing us and putting a fig in our mouths. Well, that is what I grew up with and my friends did, too.

My mam is the best, there was never some shyness talking about sex, even when I was little to listen to the women talk about sex lives. She says "you have to learn it but dont do it yet."

That makes complete sense to me. I'm from a completely different culture, but know many people who have that particular style of parenting and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

[alchemy]

Why a Safe, Tiny Little Pill Scares the Hell out of Prude Christian Conservatives:

alternet.org/why-safe-tiny-little-pill-scares-hell-out-prude-christian-conservatives

So what goal does opposition to Plan B really serve?

Male Control of Female Sexuality. As futurist Sarah Robinson has eloquently described, every culture, society and religion on this planet is structured around the once universal and now obsolete fact of women having no control of their fertility. This reality gave males certain privileges that now are threatened. Every step toward better birth control drives another nail in the coffin of male privilege, which is why, as Robinson sees it, we’ll still be fighting this battle 100 years from now.

Fetal Personhood vs. Female Personhood. Despite all evidence to the contrary, conservatives continue to insist that every fertilized egg is a person-to-be and emergency contraception is abortifacient. In reality, the only established mechanism of EC action is delaying ovulation. Even the best emergency contraception available, the copper IUD (which isn’t available without prescription), prevents more fertilized egg suicides than it causes. But that hasn’t stopped the embryo advocates from insisting that Plan B murders teeny babies, which means it must be opposed by whatever means available.

Parent Rights over Child Wellbeing. In biblical law, children are property of men, as are women, slaves and livestock. Parental rights are inviolable to the point that a man can sacrifice his child and have it “counted as righteousness†rather than murder. Our culture has moved toward the ideal expressed by Kahlil Gibran in his famous poem, On Children, meaning that we house and nurture our children rather than own them. But the closer parents are to the traditional Abrahamic view, the more they mistrust tools that help teens to take care of themselves independently, even if these tools help young people to thrive.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Of course! I would not know every thing my teenage 15 year old would do of course not. In my community it is a traditional common value that 15 year teenagers are children and we punish them if they do it. Maybe it make them stop, maybe not. But if that one is stealing from the grocer, I punish her to maybe make her stop or maybe not. Here in Israel our parents scream at us, throw us in our rooms, tell us we are disgrace if we do against parent values, and you know what, come to Tel Aviv and see how normal minded and happy and wonderful my people are. I am agnostic but practice my religion for culture reasons and many many Tel Aviv people are exactly the same way, so it is not a religious reason. Any way, I just give my thoughts on this from my culture and my values. No sweat. :dance:

Wait, are you seriously saying that your Israeli teens are non-promiscuous bc of your wonderful parenting over there? Please excuse me while I choke on my hysterical laughter. Israeli teens are quite....sexed.