Speaking of fat shaming

[BlondeAgent007]

HAHA! I love Strangers with Candy! I was shocked the first time I saw a non-Jerri photo of her. She's a good looking lady!

[flyawaystray]

She's a very good looking lady! And we talked for at least an hour, because she was waiting for the car service to come. She lives in Manhattan but travels to my vet when she has to bring her bunny in for an appointment.

[BlondeAgent007]

That's awesome! I could never, ever live in a big city like New York. Just too many people and not enough free space. I do, however, wish I could run into interesting people like that. The most famous person I know was from when I was in high school. I was friends with a guy who (while we were still attending) made it to the top 6 of American Idol. The next most famous was a Lollipop Guild Munchkin from The Wizard of OZ. I just about crapped my pants. Oh, and Lloyd Kaufmann, one of my favorite directors.

[lilith]

From the blog:

“This pretty blonde has been criticized by some folks in OKC for having “pudginess†around her waistline. We’re not trying to be ugly. We are just discussing what men like in women, specifically NBA cheerleaders.â€

And why exactly is this female blogger all concerned about what "men like in women"? This shit makes me crazy. You don't see men doing this sort of crap to each other.

I haven't read rest of thread yet, but had to respond to this quote.

There is a reason why "glamour" models and adult industry models have a different body shape to fashion models. It's because men generally prefer women who have some curves, much like this girl.

Some porn companies are moving towards very thin actresses (often with fake breasts) but in response there is a market growing for "real" looking actresses and amateur porn. Survey after survey shows that men prefer size 12 to 14 (Australian sizes) women to size 6 to 8.

This outcry is in response to the preferences of other women and the marketing industry, it is not about the preferences of the average man.

I have a very good friend who has worked in the sex industry. She has seen quite a few women with modelling experience enter the industry and be amazed to find themselves passed over by prospective clients in favour of average girl next door types, shorter women with breasts and hips.

[Savoring Samsara]

I'm going with language barrier/cultural difference. It is possible she means "slap" in the way you would say "I'd like to knock some sense into you" only more affectionately. (then again, I am a Pollyanna about people and life and I prefer to think the best of everyone, so I may be totally off here :) ).

Based on how things have been going in other threads that oil has been posting in, yes, I think there is definitely a substantial culture and language difference getting in the way here.

[desertvixen]

Dont say women cant catch a break! Fuck the magazines pictures. Do what you can for your body, theres no such thing as a perfect body, only its in your mind about your self. Relax, sister. Perfect is in YOUR eyes. I meaning this 100%!!!!

There are definitely some cultural issues. I don't know if Israeli women are being bombarded everywhere with images of the perfect body you don't have, but here it is an issue. It makes it more difficult to make sure our daughters and sons get the right message, and it needs to be addressed.

[dawbs]

The cheerleader has not fat hanging off her, but she has a pudgy ab. I would not want to have her body. I am not fat-shaming her. Only saying my opinion.

And this is exactly the type of 'concern trolling' that should get a response of "who the fuck cares what you think?"

Because this woman doesn't exist for you to oogle. She doesn't exist for me to compare my body to. She's an athlete hired to do something athletic. She apparently does it well.

And idiots who feel like her job is an invitation to 'discuss' (meaning judge) her body should be told to bugger off--because it doesn't matter whether you think she's fat, thin, or perfect--why the hell should your opinion matter one whit to any of us?

[AuntCloud]

And this is exactly the type of 'concern trolling' that should get a response of "who the fuck cares what you think?"

Because this woman doesn't exist for you to oogle. She doesn't exist for me to compare my body to. She's an athlete hired to do something athletic. She apparently does it well.

And idiots who feel like her job is an invitation to 'discuss' (meaning judge) her body should be told to bugger off--because it doesn't matter whether you think she's fat, thin, or perfect--why the hell should your opinion matter one whit to any of us?

I hope you're taking this to heart, oil.

ותפסיקי לצעוק.

Yes, Israeli culture is very much fat-phobic, which comes as an interesting contrast to the food being foisted on you everywhere (and seriously good food, too - don't get me started on Israeli pastries). Combine this with a general entitlement to say what's on your mind, anytime, anywhere, without thinking about the consequences, a general lack of boundaries, and you have the perfect storm for fat-shaming (while eating a croissant with a mocha latte). However: I was pleasantly surprised by the uproar of angry comments at a particularly nasty article featuring Kelly Osbourne and fat-shaming her to the point of wondering how could she leave the house without a burqa on. That did not go down well, and there was a downpour of articulate and compassionate comments.

[oil]

Is this a language barrier thing? "Women can't catch a break" means "Women are constantly criticised by society no matter what they do". You want to slap her for saying that?

I undestand what she was meaning she cant catch a break, meaning that no matter what she does or her body looks like, there will be feeling like its not good enough. I want to slap her because she broke my heart with her feeling like that. I dont want my sister to let society bring her down about her body. We talk like that, of slapping, not in mean-ness, but in loving way to say snap out of that thought. I wish for peasandcarrots to be free from that shit stress. I would love for her to decide on her own mind what kind of body SHE wants and not what the magazines show. May be she will choose magazine body and work on it, may be she will like different body and will work to have that one. Its HER body, be strong to love your body, we women dont need to get a break from any one. Its in YOUR eyes. Sorry, thats a common thing to say I'l slap you, it doesnt mean violence or any thing bad. Its a phrase of heartfelt concern. Yes, I will learn better english words/phrases. We are very blunt and truth here and may be it doesnt translate well.

[oil]

And this is exactly the type of 'concern trolling' that should get a response of "who the fuck cares what you think?"

Because this woman doesn't exist for you to oogle. She doesn't exist for me to compare my body to. She's an athlete hired to do something athletic. She apparently does it well.

And idiots who feel like her job is an invitation to 'discuss' (meaning judge) her body should be told to bugger off--because it doesn't matter whether you think she's fat, thin, or perfect--why the hell should your opinion matter one whit to any of us?

Some body posted this thread and asked what we think. I wrote what I think. How did I do wrong? If in my mind she has a pudgy ab that I prefer not to have on my body, I am not calling her a pieces of shit. She's sexy! So many women here said they want her body. I said I didnt. I dont understand the problem. It doesnt matter what I think of her body. I was just joining the conversation with a differing opinion. It doesnt bother me what she look like, but I have other idea in my eye for how I llke MY body. I'm just doing what the other women did, only said the opposite opinion. But we all still commented on her body. I am not a troll.

[oil]

Ok I think I see the problem. Where I live, if some one asks "do I look fat" and she does look fat, we will say yes you do, to be truthful and helpful.

I think in USA if a woman ask her friend that question, they will answer with a lie, no you dont look fat you look beautiful, because you dont want to hurt her feelings. Here where I live, our feelings get hurt if our friend lie to us and tell us we look good when we dont. THATS what is hurtful to us. I dont know, may be our way is very different than yours and I cant fit in here even Im trying. Can you try to understand me as Im trying to understand your ways?

[desertvixen]

Ok I think I see the problem. Where I live, if some one asks "do I look fat" and she does look fat, we will say yes you do, to be truthful and helpful.

I think in USA if a woman ask her friend that question, they will answer with a lie, no you dont look fat you look beautiful, because you dont want to hurt her feelings. Here where I live, our feelings get hurt if our friend lie to us and tell us we look good when we dont. THATS what is hurtful to us. I dont know, may be our way is very different than yours and I cant fit in here even Im trying. Can you try to understand me as Im trying to understand your ways?

Starting to wonder if we are falling down the concern troll hole here, but what the hell, I have a few billy goats laying around...

If my best friend/mom/etc asks me if she looks fat (which generally is more of a "is this outfit unflattering" sort of issue), she gets the truth. That's not the issue.

The problem is that there is a very strong message in our society that women need to look a certain why, and that picture is on magazine covers - not just the pictures, but the articles aimed at women losing weight. I agree with whoever upthread said that being in the perfect shape was one of those status symbols - I'm in the Army, I exercise plenty, and I still don't meet that "certain way". There is also a very strong element of women policing each other and shaming each other - because I guarantee you, no straight man (the audience for the cheerleaders) watching those cheerleaders is thinking, "hey, she's a little chunky".

[Mama Mia]

Women just can't catch a break.

The women I see at the gym with the "perfect" bodies as would be considered by media beauty standards probably work out more like 9-10x a week (the one gal I see on a regular basis does a morning and evening work out, with once or twice a week fitting in a workout during her lunch break). Not that many people have that kind of time to devote to working out. MHO is that the "perfect" body is as much a socio economic status symbol as a beauty symbol. These women that I speak of who work out multiple times a week are generally from a wealthy background or work jobs that aren't necessary to the family's income (ie husband brings home LOTS of bacon). They also have access to personal chefs or can afford nutrition services to help keep their eating clean as well.

Usually. But not always. One of my daughters looks like an anime cartoon with the teeny tiny body and the gigantic perky boobs. She doesn't "do" anything to be that way, she just is. She seriously doesn't even look 'real' she looks like she's had work done, and she's had two babies - she looked that way again within a few weeks of giving birth.

But even she obsesses about not having enough of a butt. It's insane how insecure about our bodies most of us are !

[yewchapel]

Ok I think I see the problem. Where I live, if some one asks "do I look fat" and she does look fat, we will say yes you do, to be truthful and helpful.

I think in USA if a woman ask her friend that question, they will answer with a lie, no you dont look fat you look beautiful, because you dont want to hurt her feelings. Here where I live, our feelings get hurt if our friend lie to us and tell us we look good when we dont. THATS what is hurtful to us. I dont know, may be our way is very different than yours and I cant fit in here even Im trying. Can you try to understand me as Im trying to understand your ways?

You can be fat AND beautiful, you know. I do understand the mindset behind not lying, and to some extent I agree with it, the problem is seeing fat as always being undesirable.

Also fat-shaming is a problem for fat (I use the term neutrally, fat is not a slur IMO) people. When you say that she has pudgy abs that you don't like, you are saying her body is undesirable to you. Fat women's bodies are portrayed as undesirable most of the time and that is a problem. Maybe Google 'fat acceptance' or 'fat activism'.

[dawbs]

Ok I think I see the problem. Where I live, if some one asks "do I look fat" and she does look fat, we will say yes you do, to be truthful and helpful.

I think in USA if a woman ask her friend that question, they will answer with a lie, no you dont look fat you look beautiful, because you dont want to hurt her feelings. Here where I live, our feelings get hurt if our friend lie to us and tell us we look good when we dont. THATS what is hurtful to us. I dont know, may be our way is very different than yours and I cant fit in here even Im trying. Can you try to understand me as Im trying to understand your ways?

I'm trying.

But you're making an awful lot of assumptions about our ways.

No, it's not about 'lying' to friends. Because friends do 'lie' that way, world round. And friends do get 'hurt' by that lie world round.

It's about acknowledging that your opinion is 1-judemental and 2-COMPLETELY UNIMPORTANT.

I didn't realized you were asked about your opinion, but, at the same time it would be really nice if the response to "is she fat" wasn't "yes" or "no" or "maybe", it would be "why the fuck do these wankers care so much about her weight? damnit, she's a human being, not a work of art to be oogled"

[formergothardite]

Good grief if that woman has a pudgy stomach I'm afraid to find out what sort of stomach I have. Even at my skinniest I never had a perfectly flat stomach.

[littlemommy]

You know our views toward fatness is messed up when I'm in the OBGYN office with other pregnant ladies and we are worried for the doctor to see our fat bellies. You know, fat and full of fetuses. Women can sure get into some sick headspace over weight and perceptions.

I'd like to think littlebaby is really cozy under his/her layer of mommy fat. ;)

[Maggie Mae]

Personally, I don't care for the look of the NBA Cheerleader, pudgy/skinny or whatever. She has kind of a weird face to me, her hair is bleached, too much makeup, and that uniform is hideous. However, I do not go to NBA games, because I think basketball is boring to watch, so my opinion on this person is irrelevant. As long as SHE is happy with how SHE looks, and the NBA is happy with her look, that is what is important.

[flyawaystray]

^ I'm with you.

[oil]

I'm trying.

But you're making an awful lot of assumptions about our ways.

No, it's not about 'lying' to friends. Because friends do 'lie' that way, world round. And friends do get 'hurt' by that lie world round.

It's about acknowledging that your opinion is 1-judemental and 2-COMPLETELY UNIMPORTANT.

I didn't realized you were asked about your opinion, but, at the same time it would be really nice if the response to "is she fat" wasn't "yes" or "no" or "maybe", it would be "why the fuck do these wankers care so much about her weight? damnit, she's a human being, not a work of art to be oogled"

She is liking to be oogled because cheerleaders are oogled and she knows it.

Yes I was using judgement for my opinion. Tell me what is not allowed to say here, I need to know. Some ladies here said "I would want her body" and I said "I would not want her body." They use their judgement, too. Maybe this thread better to be named SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE CHEERLEADER and ten I would understand only comments saying she is great is allowed.

I see this kind of thing is a big sensitive topic, so I will not participate any more because my frame of reference is different than yours. We are sensitive about we want to look good and so we mostly try our best to do it. I like to look good and I think saying some thing like that here is seen as bad or may be shallow. But even though appearance isnt the most important thing in life, is still some thing important as people from even thousands of years ago adorned them selves and wanted to look good. I just like my body to be a certain way and if another ladys body is different I dont care about it unless she ask me. I love to have all women love their bodies as they want them. May be you want to shame me for wanting my body not fat?

Tell me Im am not allowed to write these things here and I will stop, I promise. My perspective is very different and may be causing problems that I dont mean.

[oil]

ותפסיקי לצעוק.

Yes, thank you, I will. I get my self in trouble here lol.

[dawbs]

You're 'allowed' to say whatever you want.

I'm just saying it's patriarchal bullshit.

I said that before your post, back on page 1.

And I think the "really, she looks awesome" crap is it's own form of patriarchal bullshit that I'm not happy about either (which I also said, back on page 1).

Your perspective may be a problem, but it's hardly 'just you'.

[AuntCloud]

You say you want all women to love their bodies, and then offer critique on another woman's body, saying you wouldn't want to have that type of body because you like to look good? That doesn't make any sense.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

You say you want all women to love their bodies, and then offer critique on another woman's body, saying you wouldn't want to have that type of body because you like to look good? That doesn't make any sense.

I kinda understand what she was saying. For me personally I'm only happy with having a slim body (5'9'', 120lb max) but I do not think other women should always be slim. I appreciate women with bigger bodies ie Nigella Lawson & honestly don't care what people's body shapes are. But for me? Slim.

I think that's all oil was trying to say.

Sure I don't find morbidly obese bodies attractive but other people do/don't care so who cares that i, personally, don't? And I wouldn't fat shame someone about it. Their body, their life. My body, my life.

[oil]

You say you want all women to love their bodies, and then offer critique on another woman's body, saying you wouldn't want to have that type of body because you like to look good? That doesn't make any sense.

I like women to be happy with their body. I dont have to be happy with their body.

I have long legs, I like it. My friend had shory curvy legs, she likes it. I dont want hers, she doesnt want mine. We are both happy with our selves. If we want to change our bodys, we'll do it the best we can to the way we like it.

I critique just as much as any other person. Read a little bit above my post and see the lady who said the cheerleader has bleach hair and she doesnt like the face. Is it ok she says that but not ok for me to say one thing: I dont want that cheerleader abs for my own. Thats all I said about the cheerleader. I would not say this to her face so she can hear me. I want her to like her self even if I dont like it. If I dont have an opinion, my mind is dead.