Speaking of fat shaming

[itsnikki05]

WAIT- 3 OF US?!?! I LOVE THIS PLACE!! :banana-linedance: :banana-jumprope: :banana-explosion: :banana-dreads: :banana-dance:

I think nobody has any right to be concerned about anyone else's body ever. Not the cheerleader's, not Kate Moss', not Kate Gosselin's, nobody but your own. (And your dog's, cat's or child's, I guess. They're your responsibility, too.)

You don't know Kate Gosselin. Maybe she's sick. Maybe she has EDS, too. She doesn't need to take out a billboard and explain to you why she has hair, skin and boniness you don't like.

I know you think you're being nice. "Bony's gross- except for you, you're naturally bony, that's cool!" Nope. Not nice. I'm not naturally anything. I have a genetic disease that causes me hideous pain and increasing disability. Maybe Kate does, too. And saying nasty things about bony, possibly ill, women doesn't help fat women at all. It just makes me angry and chips at my self esteem while fat women (or vaguely kinda plump women) are still treated like crap.

/end rant

Oops, so ranty, I forgot that that second part wasn't aimed at itsnikki05. Sorry!

Just note seeing this!! Its neat to find groups of people like me!!! Haha

[itsnikki05]

I know someone with EDS who is very short and petite, so not everyone fits that type. Like I said, I was just curious :P

I'm pretty short, 5'3", but not necessarily petite... I have rather large hips and boobs

[oil]

Sure I don't find morbidly obese bodies attractive but other people do/don't care so who cares that i, personally, don't? And I wouldn't fat shame someone about it. Their body, their life. My body, my life.

Yes, you express it better than my expression. I would never fat-shame a person. Theres no shame if they want to be that way. Its more than I just like a certain kind of body for my self; its also I dont like shame feeling for any thing. Even the saying "shame on you" for what ever reason, I disgust that and hate it. It is against my moral and heart to say shame on you to some one even if they did some thing bad. Shame is a very serious negative damaging emotion that my conscience cant do to others ever.

[oil]

I'm just saying it's patriarchal bullshit.

I dont agree with that its patriarchal, but ok that you believe it. For me, its freedom of my womanhood that I chose what I like. Its my freedom to be sloppy but I dont like that way for my self. For others go ahead if you like it. I only feel sad for the women who dont like the way they look and do nothing about it. If they dont feel sad about it, I like that for them. My standards are for me only. I use pictures of other women or seeing other women as a example of what I like, just like when I see a color of lip stick on a lady and I say "I like that color to be on me too". No harm done, I am enjoying my woman-hood in my way.

Patriarchal bullshit makes it sound like if a man loves your look when you take care of your appearance, then you should shit him and go sloppy just on spite. Not my way and I have no hang ups. Im a happy woman and no man rules me.

[miffy]

I kinda understand what she was saying. For me personally I'm only happy with having a slim body (5'9'', 120lb max) but I do not think other women should always be slim. I appreciate women with bigger bodies ie Nigella Lawson & honestly don't care what people's body shapes are. But for me? Slim.

I think that's all oil was trying to say.

Sure I don't find morbidly obese bodies attractive but other people do/don't care so who cares that i, personally, don't? And I wouldn't fat shame someone about it. Their body, their life. My body, my life.

I agree!

I hate the way people say 'don't judge' & 'fat shaming' & then go right ahead & say that if you aren't plump, you aren't healthy/a real women. I've been sick twice since 2008. I can run several km outdoors on a hilly track without stopping. If i'm not healthy I don't know what is?

[salex]

I agree!

I hate the way people say 'don't judge' & 'fat shaming' & then go right ahead & say that if you aren't plump, you aren't healthy/a real women. I've been sick twice since 2008. I can run several km outdoors on a hilly track without stopping. If i'm not healthy I don't know what is?

I'm plus size and think the term 'real woman' for heavy women is one of the oddest branding things I've ever seen.

[ladyamylynn]

You're 'allowed' to say whatever you want.

I'm just saying it's patriarchal bullshit.

I said that before your post, back on page 1.

And I think the "really, she looks awesome" crap is it's own form of patriarchal bullshit that I'm not happy about either (which I also said, back on page 1).

Your perspective may be a problem, but it's hardly 'just you'.

Dawbs, you're dreamy.

[yewchapel]

I agree!

I hate the way people say 'don't judge' & 'fat shaming' & then go right ahead & say that if you aren't plump, you aren't healthy/a real women. I've been sick twice since 2008. I can run several km outdoors on a hilly track without stopping. If i'm not healthy I don't know what is?

The health of bodies is irrelevant as to whether or not they are acceptable. But I definitely don't follow the 'real woman' line, all bodies are worthy of love and acceptance no matter the gender, colour, size/shape or ability.

[Dysfundamental]

I like women to be happy with their body. I dont have to be happy with their body.

GUESS WHAT? NOBODY CARES! Nobody cares what you think about her body!

Just stop talking about this. Stop.

I like to be happy with my mind, so I don't go on and on trash-talking other women's bodies on the Internet. But, hey, other people might like having a petty, ignorant mind, there's no law against that. It's just that I don't like my mind to be sloppy and hateful, I'm just funny that way, you know?

[sparkles]

Eh, I'm gonna throw myself on the dog pile and defend Oil here. I don't think she said anything wrong, she just expressed her opinion (as did everyone else on this thread) but put a bit of personal spin on it that seems to have offended some people. Oil didn't say the cheerleader should be shamed, ashamed or locked away. She wasn't disgusted by her body and she wasn't passing judgment. She merely said it wasn't her preferred body type. It was no more or less offensive than what other posters said about her looking pudgy or not liking the plastic cheerleader look. So personally, I really don't see the problem here.

As for the cheerleader, I'll say this. Based on what little I know and what little I've seen of cheerleaders, and based on these few photos alone, her weight/body type does NOT seem to meet the current standards for the profession. In other respects (overly fussy hair, fake tan, hyper-white teeth, troweled on makeup and so on) she does meet those standards but not weight-wise (again, based on these photos). Almost every cheerleader I've seen is of the super slim, super-toned, bolt-on boob variety and this cheerleader is not those things (that photo thing again). Unfortunately, she's in a profession where appearance is everything--RIGHT OR WRONG--and she has to know and accept that going in (as in don't accept a job at Hooters and then crab about the skimpy uniform). So based on those current standards, if she deviates, then she's also got to accept that criticism is sure to follow. Is it warranted? To an extent, yes. These are the current standards--RIGHT OR WRONG--and when you're hired based on those standards, you have an obligation to meet them. It's really HOW this deviation is handled that's an issue. It's really between her and her employers, a private matter. She does not deserve to be belittled or ridiculed by those employers and certainly not by the media or the public at large.

Regarding the fact that she looks "happy?" I'll say the same thing about that as I do when people comment how fucking HAPPY the Duggars and the Maxwells appear to be. It's part of the program. Looking happy is built into the fundy creed and looking happy when you're out there leading cheers is part of the job description. So you'd damned well BETTER look happy. I wouldn't draw a single conclusion based on someone's expression in a random photo.

BTW, I've been anywhere from 130 to 260 over the past 10 years (I'm in fat mode now). But regardless of what I weigh, I'm pretty damned okay with how I am as a person. I like me. Am I happy with my weight? Not especially. Would I change my body type if I could? You betcha. But those are just part of who I am-- and the sum is greater than the parts. I am not defined by my weight, nor has it ever prevented me from doing the things I want to do. I am not a size.

[oil]

GUESS WHAT? NOBODY CARES! Nobody cares what you think about her body!

Just stop talking about this. Stop.

I like to be happy with my mind, so I don't go on and on trash-talking other women's bodies on the Internet. But, hey, other people might like having a petty, ignorant mind, there's no law against that. It's just that I don't like my mind to be sloppy and hateful, I'm just funny that way, you know?

Ok, Ill say what the other women here said "I wish I had her body". Ok, happy now? Only things that say shes beautiful are accepted. I understand.

I only respond here to when people ask me why I said this or that. Stop fucking asking me.

Personally, I don't care for the look of the NBA Cheerleader, pudgy/skinny or whatever. She has kind of a weird face to me, her hair is bleached, too much makeup, and that uniform is hideous. However, I do not go to NBA games, because I think basketball is boring to watch, so my opinion on this person is irrelevant. As long as SHE is happy with how SHE looks, and the NBA is happy with her look, that is what is important.

G-d help the woman here who said what I wrote above.

By the way, I am not hateful. Stop exagerating. :lol:

So now what to do? Hmmm if I leave this thread some body will may be say I ran away because I am wrong (yes some one said one thing like this to me be fore on FJ here). If I still to answer your comments you yell to me to stop writing. Ok I decide. Thats all for this one. You understand exactly what I mean but you re enjoying your fake offense. I cant believe you spent time spitting like camels over one comment: "I would not want her abs". :lol: This is boring now. See ya.

[AuntCloud]

Sparkles, you know I love ya - but I have to disagree with your last paragraph.

I'm 40 lb overweight, have always been a pudgy endomorph and traversed to chubby around grade 3-4. Growing up in the 70's and 80's when there were less chubby kids, I was *the* fat girl - never mind that nowadays I would be very middle-of-the pack. That was it, and that was what everyone saw. It never mattered that I was smart or funny or a good friend or a great card player (we had this thing for cards in elementary school, that was before electronic devices came to be). "Fat" is not just how many pounds you're carrying, it defines the way people see you and accept you - or not. It set me apart, it was a huge "please pick on me!" sign for class bullies, it made me and my body enemies. It is very hard for me to realize that some people may like *me* but not my body. For me, hearing "she's pudgy" immediately translates to "I don't like her".

I saw a very, very tall woman at the coffee shop today. She was at least 6'3", impeccably dressed and wearing high heels to boot. My first thought was - wow, she's tall. My second thought was - wow, that must be a challenge in the dating department (or maybe not, she looked gorgeous to me). I am comfortable with my height, which is on the short side. I don't think she is a better or worse human being for being the height she is. Weight differences are perceived with such a different attitude and so much more judgement about the person.

[OkToBeTakei]

Eh, I'm gonna throw myself on the dog pile and defend Oil here. I don't think she said anything wrong, she just expressed her opinion (as did everyone else on this thread) but put a bit of personal spin on it that seems to have offended some people. Oil didn't say the cheerleader should be shamed, ashamed or locked away. She wasn't disgusted by her body and she wasn't passing judgment. She merely said it wasn't her preferred body type. It was no more or less offensive than what other posters said about her looking pudgy or not liking the plastic cheerleader look. So personally, I really don't see the problem here.

As for the cheerleader, I'll say this. Based on what little I know and what little I've seen of cheerleaders, and based on these few photos alone, her weight/body type does NOT seem to meet the current standards for the profession. In other respects (overly fussy hair, fake tan, hyper-white teeth, troweled on makeup and so on) she does meet those standards but not weight-wise (again, based on these photos). Almost every cheerleader I've seen is of the super slim, super-toned, bolt-on boob variety and this cheerleader is not those things (that photo thing again). Unfortunately, she's in a profession where appearance is everything--RIGHT OR WRONG--and she has to know and accept that going in (as in don't accept a job at Hooters and then crab about the skimpy uniform). So based on those current standards, if she deviates, then she's also got to accept that criticism is sure to follow. Is it warranted? To an extent, yes. These are the current standards--RIGHT OR WRONG--and when you're hired based on those standards, you have an obligation to meet them. It's really HOW this deviation is handled that's an issue. It's really between her and her employers, a private matter. She does not deserve to be belittled or ridiculed by those employers and certainly not by the media or the public at large.

Regarding the fact that she looks "happy?" I'll say the same thing about that as I do when people comment how fucking HAPPY the Duggars and the Maxwells appear to be. It's part of the program. Looking happy is built into the fundy creed and looking happy when you're out there leading cheers is part of the job description. So you'd damned well BETTER look happy. I wouldn't draw a single conclusion based on someone's expression in a random photo.

BTW, I've been anywhere from 130 to 260 over the past 10 years (I'm in fat mode now). But regardless of what I weigh, I'm pretty damned okay with how I am as a person. I like me. Am I happy with my weight? Not especially. Would I change my body type if I could? You betcha. But those are just part of who I am-- and the sum is greater than the parts. I am not defined by my weight, nor has it ever prevented me from doing the things I want to do. I am not a size.

Totally agree Sparkles. Is there some kind of accepted line that we have to align to now? It appears on so many threads recently that unless you subscribe to some accepted thought you are not accepted. Well said. I only bolded the relevant part as I know fuck all about Cheerleaders :lol:

[AuntCloud]

I realize it was my hurt and rejected chubby 11 year old talking. I realize anyone has their right to their opinions over anything. It still stings to see the amount of negative emotions that a few extra pounds bring out.

[flyawaystray]

I'm pretty short, 5'3", but not necessarily petite... I have rather large hips and boobs

I know someone with EDS around that height. It can happen to anyone of any height as it is a genetic disorder. It sucks. I have huge bruises on my legs from rescuing kittens, and my knees are reeeeeally hurting today. Oh well.

Back to the topic: I think it's ok to be whatever size. We should cut out this "real women" bull, stop the fat shaming, stop the thin shaming, and start sending out the message that you can be pretty damn awesome at any size and any weight and anyone who tells you differently is an a-hole.

[OkToBeTakei]

I realize it was my hurt and rejected chubby 11 year old talking. I realize anyone has their right to their opinions over anything. It still stings to see the amount of negative emotions that a few extra pounds bring out.

I may have missed that post Aunt. All negative emotion is hurtful. EVERY opinion counts though. Whilst some posts this week I have not agreed with it has made me look at things from a different perspective. Maybe one I had not considered. It takes both the positive and negative to form that. Sometimes I get a bit urked/hurt by things/opinons you hear/read. It's hard. My partner has a very Scottish view about these things. Simplistic, difficult at times to follow but a good sentiment ..'IF they don't like it they can fuck off.'

[lilith]

I know someone with EDS around that height. It can happen to anyone of any height as it is a genetic disorder. It sucks. I have huge bruises on my legs from rescuing kittens, and my knees are reeeeeally hurting today. Oh well.

Back to the topic: I think it's ok to be whatever size. We should cut out this "real women" bull, stop the fat shaming, stop the thin shaming, and start sending out the message that you can be pretty damn awesome at any size and any weight and anyone who tells you differently is an a-hole.

And we also have to stop seeing it as only a women's issue. My partner is very overweight, and he suffers both overt and covert discrimination. But men are somehow invisible in the debate and somehow expected to just "man up and deal with it".

I have overweight female friends (hell, I'm a bit overweight myself) who would loudly deride any man who rejected them cause of their size as shallow and oppressive and part of the problem of western marketing and unrealistic expectations towards women's bodies, who literally took me aside and told me I could do better and didn't have to "settle for someone that size just cause I was a single mum". Forget the fact that I was madly in love with him, he's a wonderful man and an even better stepfather, these women who complain often that they are defined by their body shape couldn't see beyond his.

[flyawaystray]

Yes, you are so right about that.

I have an overweight, probably obese boyfriend, but I don't really care about his weight. He doesn't have any health problems and he has very muscular legs and a very muscular rear. His fat accumulates on the upper half of his body like every other man.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. He treats me well and that's all that matters to me.

[moodygirl86]

AuntCloud, sorry you got treated that way! Kids can be little shits (admittedly I found it easier to avoid being picked on due to my height, big mouth and two older brothers who were also tall and gobby). Unfortunately, the adult world is just as judgmental, and I am glad to hear you're now happy with yourself.

Oil, disagreeing with somebody isn't the issue, it's the fact that you come across as seriously aggressive when stating these dissenting opinions. I understand that the language barrier may be part of this but one of this forum's rules is that if you are going to come out with inflammatory opinions/remarks, you'd better be damn prepared to defend what you say! Freedom of speech doesn't mean "no one can criticise me for coming across as an arse!"

[oil]

Oil, disagreeing with somebody isn't the issue, it's the fact that you come across as seriously aggressive when stating these dissenting opinions. I understand that the language barrier may be part of this but one of this forum's rules is that if you are going to come out with inflammatory opinions/remarks, you'd better be damn prepared to defend what you say! Freedom of speech doesn't mean "no one can criticise me for coming across as an arse!"

I did defend what I said, over and over again.

Criticism doesnt bother me at all, I dont know why you say I think I shoudnt be criticised. That is not true. I was confused because one or two people told me to stop talking about it when I was trying to explain my self. Some one told me my opinion doesnt matter. So I realize Im speaking for nothing here for this thread.

The best thing I dont comment on it any more. I explain my self and I get told to stop talking or saying me Im a troll. I will be more selective to the posts I comment on. Thank you.

[Confused_by_religion]

I lost about 10 kilos and only then did I find out how much who we are is defined in the mind of others by what we weigh.

It truly shocked me. I never felt people were thinking about my weight when there were 1o more kilos clinging to my body - but now people constantly come up to me and compliment me on having lost weight. Colleagues I meet once a month in the corridor did not think it was strange to walk up to a virtual stranger and congratulating me on losing weight. People whose names I don't even know have found it appropriate to walk up to me and discuss my weight loss with me.

It is pretty uncomfortable and awful for me because I wonder what people's reaction would be if I put on another 10 kilos. Apparently, they will not come up to me and tell me "boy are you fat" (they didn't last time), but they will notice and definitely think about it and discuss it among themselves.

So I'd feel more comfortable if people didn't discuss weight issues with someone even if they only want to be nice. Weight is such a personal body thing, just like internal organs, diseases and so on, and would you walk up to somebody and say "Oh by the way, how is your liver doing?" As a kid I was taught this is bad manners, and I still think it is.

BTW, another way to ruin a formerly overweight person's day is this:

You are really thin.

You walk up to the formerly overweight person and say "Wow, you lost so much weight, how did you do it?"

The F.O.P. tells you.

You say: "Oh, I am SO FAT, I need to lose some weight too." (Ideally, at that moment, you take out a chocolate chip cookie or some such and start hovering it up.)

The F. O. P. will tell you "Come on, you aren't overweight at all, you are really thin."

At this point, you pull down your trousers (not completely, thank godess), pull up your pullover and grab any tiny bits of fat shaping your tiny tummy with both hands, literally shoving them up towards the other person's face and say, disgustedly: "Oh, look. I'm FAT."

Then look slightly guilty and slightly triumphantly at the F. O. P.'s still slightly larger tummy and eat some more of your cookie.

The F. O. P. will appreciate being shown your tummy NO END. :disgust:

So if ever you come across someone who's lost weight, don't mention their weight UNLESS THEY TALK ABOUT IT FIRST.

Thank you.

[oil]

GUESS WHAT? NOBODY CARES! Nobody cares what you think about her body!

Just stop talking about this. Stop.

I like to be happy with my mind, so I don't go on and on trash-talking other women's bodies on the Internet. But, hey, other people might like having a petty, ignorant mind, there's no law against that. It's just that I don't like my mind to be sloppy and hateful, I'm just funny that way, you know?

Oh I fogot to ask you did you say this "GUESS WHAT? NOBODY CARES! Nobody cares what you think about her body!" to all the people who trash talk Josh Duggar's body, how fat he is, what a slob he is, and more and more? Do you not see that as "hateful"? And did you tell those posters "Just stop talking about this. Stop." like you command to me? Just wondering.

[apple1]

Oh I fogot to ask you did you say this "GUESS WHAT? NOBODY CARES! Nobody cares what you think about her body!" to all the people who trash talk Josh Duggar's body, how fat he is, what a slob he is, and more and more? Do you not see that as "hateful"? And did you tell those posters "Just stop talking about this. Stop." like you command to me? Just wondering.

Really? REALLY!!!111!!!

[sparkles]

Aunt Cloud, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that fat shaming doesn't exist, that we're not judged by our weight or that the comments aren't hurtful. It does, we are and they do. But I've learned over the years that while I can't control what other think and say, I CAN control how I react and respond. Hateful comments from strangers (and I've been followed down the street while pushing my then infant daughter in her stroller by a group of teenagers making snorting sounds and shouting "sooey!" and I had a bag of McDonald's wrappers thrown at me from a passing car while the occupants yelled "Go on a diet!") no longer bother me after the initial shock. I have no idea who these people are, their behavior told me that I wouldn't WANT to know who they are and therefore, in the overall scheme of things, they and their behavior really don't matter. Was it an easy road getting to that point? Hells no! But as I said upthread, overall I'm pretty happy with the person I am (Do I have faults? Of course. And some of them are whoppers.) and I no longer define myself by my weight. I'm a yo-yo-er bit regardless of where my weight happens to be at any given time, if there's something I enjoy doing or want to do, I do it. If people take issue with that, well, it's their problem not mine. And to be honest, I think my confidence (and I push myself if I'm not feeling it because it does make a difference to my own enjoyment) really does help change people's perceptions. I'm not militant, I'm not confrontational, I'm leading by example. Wherever I go and whatever I do, I always try to engage other people first and I find that most respond. Those that don't? Well, they no longer matter and I can dismiss them as easily as they dismiss me. Their loss.

I don't think we'll ever reach a point where looks don't matter. It's just human nature to respond positively to someone who meets your standards of attractiveness or ideal body type and back off from those who don't. Our looks are how we make our first impression on those we don't know. (Honestly, do you really think there's anyone on this board, or anyone in the world for that matter, who hasn't had those same reactions? You would truly have to blind not to make an initial assessment based on looks.) It would be great if everyone were capable of getting past those first impressions and make judgments of worth based on who we are as people not on arbitrary and ever-changing standards of physical beauty, but will that ever happen? I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime though, what's important is educating and sensitizing society at large so we can get past those first impressions, not judge others based on what we see on the surface, and mock, discriminate or otherwise marginalize those who don't meet our standards. It is possible to enjoy, accept, and appreciate someone for who they are, even if we don't happen to like certain aspects of their appearance (which is, I believe, what Oil was trying to say).

[salex]

Back to the topic: I think it's ok to be whatever size. We should cut out this "real women" bull, stop the fat shaming, stop the thin shaming, and start sending out the message that you can be pretty damn awesome at any size and any weight and anyone who tells you differently is an a-hole.[

This was what I was trying to get to from the first. Thanks