Taliban Tony and Lina's crisis of faith/marriage

[pimpom]

"I'm not this is really on topic so much a response to bananacat and oncemodest: I get the desire to see certain things as oppressive, prima facie. But there has to be space to, somewhere, acknowledge that people can chose what might is an oppressive system but find a liberated sense of self in the performance of that system. There is no doubt, from their perspective, that the system can be understood to be [liberating/not fundie/etc].* Given we all live within a patriachy, we've all made that peace, in some sense or another. If a hajebi tells someone she finds power in her veil (and her system of belief),* I hope they would accept her experience as valid - even as another woman who has left aside the faith tells them her experience was oppressive. We are individual actors, as well as systemic actors. It's very possible for any one of us to find individual liberty in an oppressive system. If we couldn't, we'd all go mad. "

HEAR HEAR!

[pimpom]

Also, another thought...

Wasn't Lina's blog called A Set Apart Life? Because one of her fb posts the other day made it abundantly clear that she is still VERY interested in being Set Apart, Different, Better etc. So she hasn't learned anything there.

However, a reason for that (which fits in very very well with the whole single mom homeschooling craziness) could be that she has horrible social anxiety. I think she even referred to it once or twice on her blog.

If you can be Set Apart instead of Sadly Shy, if you can be a SAHM homeschooler instead of too scared of the world/people to get a job, then suddenly you're not somebody with a problem, but a fighter with a purpose! Same life, better label!

[VooDooChild]

Also, another thought...

Wasn't Lina's blog called A Set Apart Life? Because one of her fb posts the other day made it abundantly clear that she is still VERY interested in being Set Apart, Different, Better etc. So she hasn't learned anything there.

However, a reason for that (which fits in very very well with the whole single mom homeschooling craziness) could be that she has horrible social anxiety. I think she even referred to it once or twice on her blog.

If you can be Set Apart instead of Sadly Shy, if you can be a SAHM homeschooler instead of too scared of the world/people to get a job, then suddenly you're not somebody with a problem, but a fighter with a purpose! Same life, better label!

All of this. It could be that all the fundie-ness is just an elaborate coping mechanism. I hope she has an a-ha moment soon. Her child deserves better.

[wtylcf]

Also, another thought...

[...]However, a reason for that (which fits in very very well with the whole single mom homeschooling craziness) could be that she has horrible social anxiety. I think she even referred to it once or twice on her blog.

If you can be Set Apart instead of Sadly Shy, if you can be a SAHM homeschooler instead of too scared of the world/people to get a job, then suddenly you're not somebody with a problem, but a fighter with a purpose! Same life, better label!

Wow, this makes total sense. If one has horrible social anxiety, perhaps the thought of being a SAHM is so much less scary than trying to make it in the outside world, even when you're divorced, and you (likely) have a lower income than anticipated. It's still sad, knowing there are other options that are (IMHO) much better than cooping yourself up in the home with your toddler at the age of 19 to hide from the world. Even so, I hope she eventually takes little AZ to some toddler activities like library story hour, swim lessons, playdates with friends from church, and heck, even church itself, to socialize and get out there.

[Want More Babies]

you're probably right, bananacat - probably Lina expects alimony and child support money to allow her to live and support her child without working if she's seriously considering staying at home as a single parent.

If I remember correctly they live in Texas. Texas does not have alimony payments so all Lina would be entitled to is child support at 20% of his pay.

[2xx1xy1JD]

If I remember correctly they live in Texas. Texas does not have alimony payments so all Lina would be entitled to is child support at 20% of his pay.

Holy shit, I'm glad I don't live in Texas.

I found this about the alimony laws:

http://www.lifetimeplanning.cc/newalimo ... a-292.html

Does the average person living in Texas know that alimony is so restricted? How on earth does this mesh with any sort of Bible-thumping, women-should-stay-home philosophy? If I'm reading this right, you could marry young, give up any chance at college or career, have babies and stay home to raise them, and then find yourself out on your ass without money. If a woman gets married at 20 and divorces at 39, she's only entitled to alimony for a maximum of 5 years - there is no way that she can realistically make up for losing those 19 years in the workforce, and by 44 she'll need to be totally self-supporting since it will be 18 more years until she can qualify for social security.

[ladyamylynn]

Lina's facebook page is a flurry of passive-aggression today, with Tony's family "liking" most of it. I can't wait to see the next installment of this soap opera.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Since TT's family seems to be 100% on Team Lina, perhaps they will contributing to her keep?

Ugh. It's JUST so sad. This all could have been avoided if she had just given herself some time to make sure that this was really what she wanted and that TT was the right guy. Or, at the very least, waited to have a kid. Sigh.

As far as my stance on fundamentalisms being basically the same, I will admit that I struggle to understand how women embrace the Modern Orthodox or moderate Muslim (for example) lifestyle and its attendant dictates about gender as empowering. I know I shouldn't assume that just because I found things like modesty and exclusion from minyan to be disempowering, everyone will have this experience. Yet, as an academic and a feminist, it just logically makes no sense to me that these practices could also be performed in a feminist (or at least woman-positive) framework. It's something I have to think more about.

[Ralar]

Holy shit, I'm glad I don't live in Texas.

I found this about the alimony laws:

http://www.lifetimeplanning.cc/newalimo ... a-292.html

Does the average person living in Texas know that alimony is so restricted? How on earth does this mesh with any sort of Bible-thumping, women-should-stay-home philosophy? If I'm reading this right, you could marry young, give up any chance at college or career, have babies and stay home to raise them, and then find yourself out on your ass without money. If a woman gets married at 20 and divorces at 39, she's only entitled to alimony for a maximum of 5 years - there is no way that she can realistically make up for losing those 19 years in the workforce, and by 44 she'll need to be totally self-supporting since it will be 18 more years until she can qualify for social security.

One of my girlfriends graduated from a prestigious university in the Northeast. She worked for a few years and then met her husband. She moved with him several times, in order to further his career. Once they had a child, she was a stay-at-home mom. She cooked gourmet restaurant-style meals nightly, cleaned the house (no maid), tailored store-bought clothes as needed, volunteered throughout the community, and did a lovely job raising their daughter. The husband made a nice income, almost making them 2-percenters. After 20 years of marriage, the husband decided he wasn't happy and moved out. Shortly thereafter, he told my friend he wanted a divorce. Then he told her he was gay (our entire circle of friends though he was gay from the day we met him. One friend who worked with him joked that the few tiems they business trips together (they were both executives at the same company) they could never just go to a ball game because the gay-husband wanted to go to the theater. No one believes the wife didn't know her husband was gay).

By the time the wife filed for divorce, the husband had spend down their savings and even dipped into their retirement accounts (by forging the wife's name). They they were living in Texas at the time. The wife received half of their assets (Texas is a community property state) but there was nothing left because the husband had already spent what he could. They had no equity in their house (it was only 2 years old and the market tanked after they bought it), She did gety $1,200/mo. child support for their teenage daughter and half of what remained in the retirement accounts. Because she had a college degree, she was entitled to absolutely no allimony. It didn't matter that she was 50 years old, hadn't worked in 15 years and was really not qualified to do anything, other than volunteer for the Junior League.

Her ex-husband lives in an expensive part of New York (Westchester County) with his flight-attendant boyfriend. The daughter moved to NY after high school and is living a lavish lifestyle with her father. My friend now lives in a one bedroom apartment, and works as the insurance person in a doctor's office (no benefits -- including no health insurance). She barely makes ends meet and has had to dip into the remaining retirement funds.

YAY Texas!

[keen23]

If I remember correctly they live in Texas. Texas does not have alimony payments so all Lina would be entitled to is child support at 20% of his pay.

20%? Really? That seems very low. A shame really, that orders of support can be so low.

[ladyamylynn]

One of my girlfriends graduated from a prestigious university in the Northeast. She worked for a few years and then met her husband. She moved with him several times, in order to further his career. Once they had a child, she was a stay-at-home mom. She cooked gourmet restaurant-style meals nightly, cleaned the house (no maid), tailored store-bought clothes as needed, volunteered throughout the community, and did a lovely job raising their daughter. The husband made a nice income, almost making them 2-percenters. After 20 years of marriage, the husband decided he wasn't happy and moved out. Shortly thereafter, he told my friend he wanted a divorce. Then he told her he was gay (our entire circle of friends though he was gay from the day we met him. One friend who worked with him joked that the few tiems they business trips together (they were both executives at the same company) they could never just go to a ball game because the gay-husband wanted to go to the theater. No one believes the wife didn't know her husband was gay).

By the time the wife filed for divorce, the husband had spend down their savings and even dipped into their retirement accounts (by forging the wife's name). They they were living in Texas at the time. The wife received half of their assets (Texas is a community property state) but there was nothing left because the husband had already spent what he could. They had no equity in their house (it was only 2 years old and the market tanked after they bought it), She did gety $1,200/mo. child support for their teenage daughter and half of what remained in the retirement accounts. Because she had a college degree, she was entitled to absolutely no allimony. It didn't matter that she was 50 years old, hadn't worked in 15 years and was really not qualified to do anything, other than volunteer for the Junior League.

Her ex-husband lives in an expensive part of New York (Westchester County) with his flight-attendant boyfriend. The daughter moved to NY after high school and is living a lavish lifestyle with her father. My friend now lives in a one bedroom apartment, and works as the insurance person in a doctor's office (no benefits -- including no health insurance). She barely makes ends meet and has had to dip into the remaining retirement funds.

YAY Texas!

This story is horrible. I'm not sure Lina, however, deserves alimony payments. Child Support, OF COURSE! But alimony? I think she needs to get a job. It's not like she put in years of unpaid labor as a housewife to the detriment of her career or anything. If she started college right now, she would only be a couple of years behind the average student.

[treemom]

Child support and Alimony can always be negotiated and may be higher than any requirements. I have a friend who is getting restorative alimony after spending 15 years as a SAHM and marrying right out of high school and getting pregnant. She had no skills and her husband left her.

She is back in college working on her PharmD. But the alimony was negotiated. Of course it is easier to negotiate when a judge can award it.

[TheJewAmongUs]

This story is horrible. I'm not sure Lina, however, deserves alimony payments. Child Support, OF COURSE! But alimony? I think she needs to get a job. It's not like she put in years of unpaid labor as a housewife to the detriment of her career or anything. If she started college right now, she would only be a couple of years behind the average student.

If I recall correctly, Lina's parents made her go to community college. She went for no more than 2 semesters and took I think a grand total of 3 classes. At the time she blogged about wanting to be a homemaker and her parents just didn't understand. I think she even wanted to homeschool her younger sisters at some point. I also think she was planning to start school to be an herbalist or something, right around the time her future headship moved to town. I think it would be hard for Lina to get a job, given that she has limited herself to having no experience and no education. I honestly don't know what the answer would be for someone in her situation. I think there are people with the fortitude to get through it, but with Lina, who knows. Maybe her parents will rescue her and convince her to go back to school.

[GeoBQn]

Lina was planning on going to school to be an "herbalist," but the school shut down before the first day of class. I'm not sure if she had paid them at that point.

[ladyamylynn]

If I recall correctly, Lina's parents made her go to community college. She went for no more than 2 semesters and took I think a grand total of 3 classes. At the time she blogged about wanting to be a homemaker and her parents just didn't understand. I think she even wanted to homeschool her younger sisters at some point. I also think she was planning to start school to be an herbalist or something, right around the time her future headship moved to town. I think it would be hard for Lina to get a job, given that she has limited herself to having no experience and no education. I honestly don't know what the answer would be for someone in her situation. I think there are people with the fortitude to get through it, but with Lina, who knows. Maybe her parents will rescue her and convince her to go back to school.

I agree with you that she has limited her choices significantly. However, I find it really hard to believe that a young woman who is obviously reasonably intelligent and attractive couldn't get a part-time job at the mall and enroll in some community college classes. I've known plenty of people who have pissed away their early 20's in bands, travelling, or doing drugs, who have managed to go back to school or start working and aren't too far behind by the time they hit 30.

Now, if she is just unwilling to do so or unable because of a mental illness issue, then that is another story completely.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This story is horrible. I'm not sure Lina, however, deserves alimony payments. Child Support, OF COURSE! But alimony? I think she needs to get a job. It's not like she put in years of unpaid labor as a housewife to the detriment of her career or anything. If she started college right now, she would only be a couple of years behind the average student.

If they didn't have the baby, I might agree with you.

In this case, though, he was on board with the decision to have her stay home as a wife and mother. Now, she has no independent source of income, and she needs to have a way to support herself and the baby and get child care while going to school or looking for work. She's at a disadvantage compared to where she was before she married Tony, because it's easier to go to work or school when you don't have child care issues.

[Rosie]

Holy shit, I'm glad I don't live in Texas.

I found this about the alimony laws:

http://www.lifetimeplanning.cc/newalimo ... a-292.html

Does the average person living in Texas know that alimony is so restricted? How on earth does this mesh with any sort of Bible-thumping, women-should-stay-home philosophy? If I'm reading this right, you could marry young, give up any chance at college or career, have babies and stay home to raise them, and then find yourself out on your ass without money. If a woman gets married at 20 and divorces at 39, she's only entitled to alimony for a maximum of 5 years - there is no way that she can realistically make up for losing those 19 years in the workforce, and by 44 she'll need to be totally self-supporting since it will be 18 more years until she can qualify for social security.

I am pretty sure that alimony is no longer mandatory in most states and that where it is awarded, it is on a temporary or "rehabilitative" basis for a short time to enable the formerly-SAH spouse to get back on her/his feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimony#St ... nitiatives

On the other hand, assets are usually divided up under equitable distribution principles - i.e., the SAH spouse is entitled to half of what the WOH spouse built up in retirement, savings, pension, etc.

It is assumed that an able-bodied former SAH spouse can and should work to support her/his child/ren. (Both ex-spouses are expected to support the children, of course - but often, collecting such support from/enforcing a child support decree against the ex-spouse is another story.)

[Sola]

She's lucky to have her parents and it seems Tony's family are supportive. Whether that remains the case five years from now when she's sitting at home schooling her son instead of putting him in school and getting herself a job, who knows. Family might well get tired of her not supporting herself. It won't help if Tony meets someone else and has another family either and that is entirely conceivable.

The best thing she could do right now is to enroll in education while both families still have enough sympathy for her situation. She could use that to her advantage for babysitting while she studies.

I wonder if she is on any kind of welfare now. Not that she shouldn't, that's what its there for. But would she claim it?

[charmedjenny]

Lina is going crazy posting on her "My Future Wedding" Pinterest board. White ballgown princess dresses, sleeveless dresses, dresses with full lace backs. Infinity wedding band tattoos. Exits from Cathedrals, etc.

Color me SUPER confused.

[sea_gale]

Lina is going crazy posting on her "My Future Wedding" Pinterest board. White ballgown princess dresses, sleeveless dresses, dresses with full lace backs. Infinity wedding band tattoos. Exits from Cathedrals, etc.

Color me SUPER confused.

Any chance of a link to her Pinterest? *bats eyelids*

[charmedjenny]

pinterest.com/paulinap718/my-future-wedding/

don't know if it needs to be broken or not

[yewchapel]

Seems like she's gone back to mainstream Christianity. Judging by a Holy Week pin, maybe Catholicism? To be honest, I think she'd really like the ritual of Catholicism.

[wtylcf]

Lina is going crazy posting on her "My Future Wedding" Pinterest board. White ballgown princess dresses, sleeveless dresses, dresses with full lace backs. Infinity wedding band tattoos. Exits from Cathedrals, etc.

Color me SUPER confused.

OMG, the infinity wedding band tattoos. Such a great idea for someone whose first marriage lasted all of 15 minutes.

Since it's pinned to a board entitled "my future wedding," it seems that Lina is looking forward to the day she will marry Mr. Right the 2nd, and that this time, she would enjoy a ceremony which involves wearing something more elaborate than a purple button-down shirt while being married by an officiant in front of a couple of witnesses in someone's backyard.

[fundiefan]

Am I late to this? I admit, I only skimmed.

Her Twitter profile is "21 year old single mother...".

Yep, she and her love bit the dust.

Tweets are protected but she's also a follower of Jesus Christ...in what form, who knows.

[mlady]

Does the average person living in Texas know that alimony is so restricted?

I have no clue but often wondered that myself. As a SAHM I would NEVER live in TX. I'm a CA native and when my 30 year marriage went downhill I know for a fact my H thought about Texas and if/how he could manage to file there (he has family there but hadn't set foot in the state until we separated, and then only for a week to visit). He isn't stupid and quickly realized he couldn't do anything with that...but the fact that it crossed his mind cracks me up a little.

I suspect Lina will go back home and live with her parents.