Explaining The Southern USA To NonSoutherners

[Conuly]

Texans have that saying of "Don't Mess With Texas" and that attitude is prevalent.

Fun fact: that originated as an anti-littering slogan.

[crawfishgirl]

As a Texan I do call myself a Southerner, for a couple of reasons: 1) Texas was a Confederate State and 2) at least among the ones I've known, Texans absolutely unequivocally consider themselves part of the South. (And remember, Texas is a huge place that itself has different dialects and subcultures--people from East Texas are much more Deep South in accent and culture than people from West Texas.) Texas is definitely different from the former antebellum South, but again, the South includes a lot of different subcultures beyond just those two, and I think it's impossible to define just one of those cultures as truly Southern. I lived in far southern Missouri for a few years and it was way different from, say, Mississippi. Or Georgia. I see "The South" as an umbrella that covers the former Confederate States, and under that umbrella there are a lot of different cultures and dialects. Some, like Texas, are influenced by the West while remaining part of the South. (A Texan will describe himself as "a Southerner" in an instant, and might also consider describing himself as a "Southwesterner," but none I've known would ever describe himself as "a Westerner.") YMMV, of course. :)

I totally agree. The south is not one stereotypical monolithic group where everyone thinks, speaks and eats the same. I was born and reared in LA and later moved to TX in my 20's. Southern LA has a laid-back, partying attitude (think Mardi Gras), and was a fun place to grow up. Lots of good seafood and parades. Overall, it is more conservative than liberal, but there are many liberals there, like I was. When I would travel in other southern states, the food and the dialects would all be slightly different. I live in TX now which is known as an extremely conservative state, but some of it depends on where you live. I live in a large city with a lesbian mayor. I know people who are strong Republicans, and also people who are Democrats. I know that people in other areas of the state are different from the ones in my city (though I don't think that you can accurately compartmentalize a large group of people), both in food and outlook on life. I try not to judge and categorize people based on characteristics such as place of origin, though I know that preconceptions are sometimes difficult to overcome.

[loveandwar]

People get very angry when others disagree with them. It can be a bit frightening to have a previously polite person become threateningly angry over something that you consider trivial.

You're telling me! I'm not sure if it's exclusively a Southern thing or what, but people get angry over the dumbest things. I know someone who pitched a hissy fit* because I completely locked down one of my social media accounts.

*For those not from the South, "pitching a hissy fit" means that someone got really, really angry at you for no reason.

[musicmommy]

I'm loving this thread. I was raised in Alaska and currently live in the Pacific Northwest so it has been eye opening for me to hear the personal stories from the south rather than just reading the generalizations presented in movies and books. Thanks!

[Slt]

Side note on Southernness...

DH is from California where all of his extended family (aside from parents and siblings) still live. His uncle is TERRIFIED to come out here to NC, because of our "redneck" and Deliverance-style roots. DH and his family have lived out here for about 15 years, and his uncle has bypassed us for Disney, and other trips deeper south but refuses to visit because of the "scary" things that happen in our state! Even though we live in the biggest (not backwoods at all) city...

He and his (PhD) wife were also appalled that we have an "Appalachian State University" because isn't Appalachian a derogatory term? :eyeroll:

[laura oz]

Side note on Southernness...

DH is from California where all of his extended family (aside from parents and siblings) still live. His uncle is TERRIFIED to come out here to NC, because of our "redneck" and Deliverance-style roots. DH and his family have lived out here for about 15 years, and his uncle has bypassed us for Disney, and other trips deeper south but refuses to visit because of the "scary" things that happen in our state! Even though we live in the biggest (not backwoods at all) city...

He and his (PhD) wife were also appalled that we have an "Appalachian State University" because isn't Appalachian a derogatory term? :eyeroll:

It always tickles me when anyone who isn't from the south thinks they have to guard their virgin butts around us hicks :lol:

[morfydd]

Driveby bits:

--My mom studied linguistics, and was from near Philadelphia, and I gather she considers the Mid-Atlantic accent to be Delaware, Maryland, and eastern Pennsylvania (possibly with a little bit of New Jersey included). There are a few vowel sounds that I picked up while living in MD briefly that *horrified* her.

--She and I also pick up accents, especially southern ones, really quickly. I can't mimic an accent to save my life, but 5 minutes into conversation with someone with a strong drawl and I'm fighting to keep my generic PNW/newscaster intonation. My mom had a roommate in college from deep Alabama and she said she spent the entire year apologizing: "I'm not making fun of your accent, I just can't stop talking like you!"

--Speaking of making fun of accents, my company had a guy from Tennessee giving a presentation (in our Bay Area corporate office). Near the beginning of the talk he said something like, "Don't think I'm stupid just because I have a Good Ol' Boy accent." Ok, I thought, fair enough - that is a common prejudice and I should check myself. About the 4th time he said something like that, however, my thoughts went more: Dude, my company paid to fly you here and take up valuable presentation time because They Think You Are Smart. I believe them. Defensive much?

[Hane]

Back in grade school, we were taught that, geographically speaking, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and Delaware were mid-Atlantic states--based purely on their locations, not any cultural characteristics.

And let me say another AMEN!!! to NYC friendliness. I was born in Staten Island (moved to blue-collar central Connecticut at 2.5 and have lived here ever since), and have visited various NYC boroughs many, many times since. Because the city is so big, and because so many people rely on walking and public transportation to get from place to place, there's more of a small town/neighborhood/village feel to much of NYC than I find in more suburban places. As another poster mentioned, if you pause to check your phone, you can count on someone to ask whether you're lost, offer directions, or recommend a good place for lunch. Astoria in Queens is a great example of this, but the same has happened to me in Times Square.

Re "Southern Hospitality," two colleagues have visited the South and have been treated to the same "witticism": "You know the difference between Yankees and Damn Yankees? Yankees leave. *big smug grin*" One had just bought a huge order of furniture in a South Carolina store for shipment to Connecticut, and the other was in the boardroom of an AT&T vice president in San Antonio. Both stood there in shock, unable to respond. Had I been there, I wish I'd been able to have the presence of mind to smile sweetly and say, "Oh, so THAT's what you mean by 'Southern Hospitality'."

[ThatSnark]

southerners also love college football. roll tide!

LOL, that's another thing that is H-A-R-D to explain to outsiders: the religion-like importance of college football!

That said, proud AU '93 grad. War D*mn Eagle! :)

[RosyDaisy]

Speaking of college football, the annual Alabama vs Auburn game (aka Iron Bowl) has got to be the biggest rivalry in college football. Fights actually break out, and the whole state goes crazy. A few years ago a crazy Alabama fan posioned the twin oak trees at Toomer's Corner on the Auburn campus. Toomer's was a university landmark. After every significant Auburn win, ther was rolling at Toomer's (toilet papering the trees). A campus tradition that is no more thanks to some crazy Alabama fan.

Oh, and ROLL TIDE!!!!!!

[Arete]

Back in grade school, we were taught that, geographically speaking, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and Delaware were mid-Atlantic states--based purely on their locations, not any cultural characteristics.

And let me say another AMEN!!! to NYC friendliness. I was born in Staten Island (moved to blue-collar central Connecticut at 2.5 and have lived here ever since), and have visited various NYC boroughs many, many times since. Because the city is so big, and because so many people rely on walking and public transportation to get from place to place, there's more of a small town/neighborhood/village feel to much of NYC than I find in more suburban places. As another poster mentioned, if you pause to check your phone, you can count on someone to ask whether you're lost, offer directions, or recommend a good place for lunch. Astoria in Queens is a great example of this, but the same has happened to me in Times Square.

Re "Southern Hospitality," two colleagues have visited the South and have been treated to the same "witticism": "You know the difference between Yankees and Damn Yankees? Yankees leave. *big smug grin*" One had just bought a huge order of furniture in a South Carolina store for shipment to Connecticut, and the other was in the boardroom of an AT&T vice president in San Antonio. Both stood there in shock, unable to respond. Had I been there, I wish I'd been able to have the presence of mind to smile sweetly and say, "Oh, so THAT's what you mean by 'Southern Hospitality'."

Yeah, I never understood that business of the residents of NYC supposedly being the most viscious species on the Eastern Seaboard. :roll: My dad and extended family all worked in the 5 boroughs, and they found the burbs they lived in much more off putting in terms of social interaction. I actually fell in the middle of a very busy commuting hub in the city one time, and about 12 species of NYC dragon came to assist me. :lol: They may not smile at perfect strangers before they commune with the first cup of their morning coffee, but they always stand ready to assist.

I will also second that I really cannot stand some of that passive-aggressive "Yankee" shit I have gotten from collegues in the antebellum south (never had the problem in Texas, which I think probably explains the soft spot I have for Texans). The South lost the war, get over it already.

[polabear]

LOL, that's another thing that is H-A-R-D to explain to outsiders: the religion-like importance of college football!

That said, proud AU '93 grad. War D*mn Eagle! :)

The Midwest finds college football pretty important too. I think my coworkers feel sad for me that I went to a div III college, and thus do not know the joy of a good football weekend trip.

I'm originally from Colorado, but now live in the Chicago suburbs. I visited Birmingham Alabama several times with an eye to moving there. I couldn't stand it. People where just so nosy. The final straw was when i was interrogated at target over why i had not already moved out to be with my boyfriend. Or why we weren't married. No I have no idea how that came up. And I couldn't get used to the ma' ams or sirs.

When I grew up out west, I was raised that it was rude to ask personal questions. Now folks in the Midwest will ask questions but only after getting to know you a bit. In fact I'm pretty sure I come off rude at times because I just don't think to ask how someone is doing or what they did that weekend. Growing up, you waited for someone to bring that up themselves.

I'm not sure I'd be happy back east either. I'm just not formal enough. The Midwest is perfect for me. I love that I live in a neighborhood with a book club and people wave as they drive by. Both of these things completely confuse my sister who has always lived in Colorado.

[HereticHick]

"His uncle is TERRIFIED to come out here to NC, because of our "redneck" and Deliverance-style roots. DH and his family have lived out here for about 15 years, and his uncle has bypassed us for Disney, and other trips deeper south but refuses to visit because of the "scary" things that happen in our state!"

It is interesting that blatant ignorance & prejudice towards mountain folk like this is completely tolerated by our larger society.

If uncle was avoiding visiting you in NC because of a fear of African-Americans and the "scary" things they might do, it would be a different story, wouldn't it?

[cenarose]

--Speaking of making fun of accents, my company had a guy from Tennessee giving a presentation (in our Bay Area corporate office). Near the beginning of the talk he said something like, "Don't think I'm stupid just because I have a Good Ol' Boy accent." Ok, I thought, fair enough - that is a common prejudice and I should check myself. About the 4th time he said something like that, however, my thoughts went more: Dude, my company paid to fly you here and take up valuable presentation time because They Think You Are Smart. I believe them. Defensive much?

See, I can't help but feel bad for that guy (though he does need to learn to be more professional and less defensive), because you would not believe how much flack you can catch for having a Southern accent. I pick up accents very quickly, so I long ago learned to sound exactly like a Midwesterner, which means that people sometimes forget where I'm from and air their prejudices in front of me. I had one guy go on a 20-minute rant about going to a conference and listening to a speaker with a Southern accent. "What the HELL?" he raved. "The idiot expects any of us to take him seriously? Learn to TALK first. Learn to TALK before you try to tell anybody anything." After listening quietly I finally got up the nerve to say, "Well, what about the things he actually said? What did he talk about?" And he gave me an incredulous look and said, "I couldn't get past his dumb-ass hick accent." Turns out the speaker was a scientist from the Houston area. A very intelligent one. Who was better at science than he was at picking up accents.

[debrand]

Side note on Southernness...

DH is from California where all of his extended family (aside from parents and siblings) still live. His uncle is TERRIFIED to come out here to NC, because of our "redneck" and Deliverance-style roots. DH and his family have lived out here for about 15 years, and his uncle has bypassed us for Disney, and other trips deeper south but refuses to visit because of the "scary" things that happen in our state! Even though we live in the biggest (not backwoods at all) city...

He and his (PhD) wife were also appalled that we have an "Appalachian State University" because isn't Appalachian a derogatory term? :eyeroll:

You might want to tell them about the Research Triangle and Duke University. Also, Appalachian is the name of the mountains that stretch from Georgia to Main. They aren't just in the south.

[Slt]

You might want to tell them about the Research Triangle and Duke University. Also, Appalachian is the name of the mountains that stretch from Georgia to Main. They aren't just in the south.

They are well aware of Duke, UNC, etc. She is actually a professor, which is scary considering their obvious ignorance.

[debrand]

They are well aware of Duke, UNC, etc. She is actually a professor, which is scary considering their obvious ignorance.

Perhaps this article could change her mind. Charlotte is a financial hub and there have been a recent migration of New Yorkers to the city. I'm hoping that the political demographics of my state will change because of these newcomers

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/char ... ZjuMXjUFpK

And so many New Yorkers have relocated to the Charlotte area that Jersey City native Chris Pardo started a sports talk show on WAVO in Charlotte that deals solely with New York teams.


"When you have a half-million New Yorkers in the area, especially from Long Island, they want to talk sports," Pardo said. "It's a huge population now

[Slt]

Ugh, trust me they are not able to be changed, unfortunately. We live in Charlotte, their brother (my FIL) is a BofA executive- they don't care. Honestly, they aren't very fun people (imagine that!) and I don't mind a bit that they don't visit. I am sad that they see my wonderful state as a backwoods $hithole, but their loss.

[shedemei]

"His uncle is TERRIFIED to come out here to NC, because of our "redneck" and Deliverance-style roots. DH and his family have lived out here for about 15 years, and his uncle has bypassed us for Disney, and other trips deeper south but refuses to visit because of the "scary" things that happen in our state!"

It is interesting that blatant ignorance & prejudice towards mountain folk like this is completely tolerated by our larger society.

If uncle was avoiding visiting you in NC because of a fear of African-Americans and the "scary" things they might do, it would be a different story, wouldn't it?

It's definitely one of the last subcultures which are "acceptable" to mock. I really can't even think of another.

[MandyLaLa]

LOL, that's another thing that is H-A-R-D to explain to outsiders: the religion-like importance of college football!

That said, proud AU '93 grad. War D*mn Eagle! :)

Speaking of college football, the annual Alabama vs Auburn game (aka Iron Bowl) has got to be the biggest rivalry in college football. Fights actually break out, and the whole state goes crazy. A few years ago a crazy Alabama fan posioned the twin oak trees at Toomer's Corner on the Auburn campus. Toomer's was a university landmark. After every significant Auburn win, ther was rolling at Toomer's (toilet papering the trees). A campus tradition that is no more thanks to some crazy Alabama fan.

Oh, and ROLL TIDE!!!!!!

This is one of the things I hate the most about southerns, their arrogant attitude that no one else in the country could possibly care more, be more passionate, more involved and have more traditions than southern football.

Is game day on a Saturday in the SEC an awesome experience, hell yes it is. But so is game day at South Bend, Ann Arbor, USC, Oregon, and many other schools. And I'm speaking from experience, I may be a damn Yankee but college football is my past time and I've been all around the country, taken in some of the best game days and they don't exist solely in the south.

[Librul]

so true.....intense college football fans in the Midwest and Plains states. Very intense.

[OneQuill]

I grew up in Wisconsin, and moved to FL with my then soon to be husband in my very early 30's. I have learned to make southern dishes better than his mama. (she even says so) things like johnny-cake, collards, chicken fried steak, etc. There are a lot more seasonings used in the south than just salt pepper and fat, do some research and you'll find some good old fashioined, stick to your ribs food, that you can modify for today's diets. We eat lots of vegetables out of our garden (or I try to make a garden)--My sister inherited my mother's green thumb, not me.

As well as beans (if you make 'em right they aren't gassy) and I'm quite content. I do throw in an occassional home meal however, gotta have a bratwurst once in a while!

I grew up calling soft drinks soda, we thought pop a strange name.--And a drinking fountain was a bubbler, that took a bit of getting used to down here!

The one thing that will never change--I am a true green and gold die-hard Packers fan and unapologetic about it.

[Conuly]

Tangenting back to NYC for a second, the reason we give directions is twofold. I mean, aside from the fact that we are just that nice, which I guess makes it threefold.

Giving directions to strangers helps us engage in two favorite pastimes, kibitzing and kvetching. I wouldn't use the Yiddish here, since I don't actually speak the language, but "butting in and complaining" doesn't aliterate as nicely. I suppose complaining would, but it sounds nicer if you pair the Yiddish words like that, doesn't it? Better to end as you started.

See, first you get to tell people - total strangers! - what to do and how to do it, and you can feel good doing it, because it's a Good Deed! They'll even thank you for it! It's wonderful! And in the process you can, if so inclined, bitch about the MTA, the trains, the existence of bad drivers, buses, the second avenue line and why it isn't, Robert Moses (because some gripes don't have an expiration date, or maybe because I have a particularly erudite and transit oriented group of friends, but common complaints here include the lack of a train into Staten Island and the building of too many expressways), why popular tourist destination sucks and what they should do instead, and whatever else you can drag into the conversation. And after the fact you can complain about the number of tourists in the city, just spread the joy around.

There is a third pastime for the transit oriented, arguing over the best way to get from here to there, which you can do if there is more than one helper. My mother always says that it isn't a conversation if everybody agrees, and she's probably right, though I certainly get flak for that attitude on the Internet. (Not so much IRL, so I'm thinking it may be a New York thing itself.) There's always another way to get there, and if you enjoy that sort of thing, helping tourists gives you a chance to have that conversation for the zillionth time.

[Arete]

Conuly, you forgot about warning tourists that they are being ripped off if they take a cab from Point A to Point B using a route other than the one you explained to them. Because the one thing NYers tend to agree on is that they have the shiftiest cab drivers in these United States. :mrgreen: ;)

[darareaksmey]

LOL, that's another thing that is H-A-R-D to explain to outsiders: the religion-like importance of college football!

That said, proud AU '93 grad. War D*mn Eagle! :)

Well, I disagree with this. I think people from all regions of the US have their college football traditions that are very important to them. Trying to explain those traditions to persons from outside that particular area is extremely hard; everyone thinks that *their* particular team/rivalry/tradition/whatever is the living end, not to be surpassed by any team/rivalry/tradition/whatever from anyplace else. You can't tell me that people in other parts of the country don't consider their college football scene religious too. Ever been in Columbus when the Wolverines roll into town?

And I say this as a southerner, one who loathes college football but who can't help but absorb what goes on around me. In SC, a state where people really ought to be paying more attention to more important things like primary education and obesity rates, people live for Carolina-Clemson. We know and care very little about, say, Alabama-Auburn, just as I would expect you to know and think very little about Carolina-Clemson. It's not just the south where the traditions are revered, it's all over; but your own particular tradition is only important to you if you've lived it, it seems to me.

Personally I"ll take college basketball any day. ;)