Explaining The Southern USA To NonSoutherners

[Katiebug]

I was born in the Midwest to Midwestern parents, and was raised and have lived in New England since I was 4. My only significant exposure to the South is through travel, both for business and vacations.

I had to take a number of business trips to the Pensacola, FL area and was shocked at the sheer density of churches. There were little churches EVERYWHERE, and a fair number of large churches too. I was invited to at least one or two worship services and social events on each trip - invited by total strangers who happened to work for the same company! People were super friendly and nice but had a lot of questions about my personal life (number of kids, what my husband does for a living, what kind of church we go to, etc.).

The "sir" and "ma'am" thing was really weird. The South is the only place I've traveled on business within North America or Europe where that sort of formality was used. Typically all professional/business contact is on a first name basis and I was in my mid and late 20s at the time, so being called ma'am by older/subordinate employees in the course of work was an uncomfortable thing for me. I was unsure if I was supposed to reciprocate or not and didn't want to offend, but the whole thing was totally foreign.

Rednecks are not geographically-limited. We had a neighbor for around 4-5 years who was the epitome of a redneck. Dude had a broken-down RV parked next to his house with a tarp over the windshield because he accidentally shot it out while on a hunting trip. He had a very illegal (non-permitted) pool in his backyard, did some absolutely insane home improvement projects which were in no way up to code, and operated a side business where he did pig roasts on the weekends. "Hold my beer and watch this" was said by him in all seriousness on a number of occasions involving illegal fireworks and/or power tools. There was what appeared to be a blood feud between him and his then-next door neighbor that brought the police to our quiet little middle class neighborhood on more than one occasion. Their yard was an absolute eyesore of plastic lawn chairs and 55 gallon drums and his kids were named after cities. In Jeff Foxworthy's words, he had a "glorious lack of sophistication". :lol: Yet he was born and raised in suburban Connecticut and had only left on vacation. I think redneck is a state of mind/status rather than anything having to do with where you live.

[wildflower]

Interesting discussion! I would like to contribute my thoughts as an "Appalachian" southerner.

My background:

I grew up in the third smallest county (in terms of population) in Virginia. It is located on the Virginia/West Virginia border. My mother's family is from Virginia while my Dad's family is from West Virginia. Growing up in Appalachia, I was subject to all of the negative Southern stereotypes without the "romance" of the deep South.

The area that I grew up in has been historically (and still is) one of the poorest parts of the U.S. My parents were both the first in their families to attend college. They both had to attend classes to learn to speak in standard American English. The reason for this was because people from Appalachia are perceived as ignorant, inbred, and stupid. I was carefully trained to have a neutral accent. People are astonished to learn where I'm from. For me, it's a double-edged sword. I have it easier without the baggage associated with the accent. However, as a student of linguistics and a person interested in preserving dialects, I find it sad that I don't have a vocal link to my heritage.

I'm proud of parts of my heritage and ashamed of other parts. While Appalachia is slowly becoming less racist, racism is unfortunately part of Appalachian history. Slavery did exist even in the mountains although revisionist historians are quick to deny it. The Civil War was a bloody nasty conflict and the lines between West Virginia (a neutral state) and Virginia (a Confederate state) appear black and white on paper but the reality was a murky gray. Part of my Dad's family (the West Virginians) served in the confederacy. Some of my Virginia ancestors were Quaker abolitionists.

Family is huge in Appalachian and Southern U.S. culture. This is both good and bad. The good part is that I have a huge network of cousins who I can count on to do just about anything for me. The bad part is that people can be judged based on their family. I've been guilty of this myself: "What can you expect? Everyone knows the Smiths are crazy," etc. At it's worst, you get feuds that go on for generations.

I get frustrated when Southerners and Appalachians pull the "Southern culture" card. There is nothing glamorous about being ignorant and stubborn. Too often Southerners try to whitewash history. The Civil War was about slavery. The End. Stop trying to justify your ancestors' stupidity.

I love Gone with the Wind for the story of Rhett and Scarlett. I hate that people think that the South was full of cotton plantations.

I could go on (and on) but that's my $.02.

[Ex 2x2]

Wildflower,

When I say I love the culture, I mean the food, the music (blues, country), the family connections, the friendliness, etc. I hope that makes sense. I am fascinated by the area that you are from. Is your accent different than the typical southern accent? (Not that there is actually a typical one, so I guess I'm asking what is unique about the way people from there speak?)

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I'm curious to hear more about what you mean by "the differences between the East and the rest of the country." Yours is an attitude that I encountered during my time living in NYC and I always wondered what parts of "the rest of the country" they were referring to. The West Coast? Chicago? Hawaii?

I mean the parts of the country that are not New England. :roll:

[salsa]

sorry if I missed it earlier, but Julia Roberts is from Georgia. http://www.biography.com/people/julia-roberts-9460157 It's a public link, so I won't break it.

Interesting, considering the crappy accent.

Dolly Parton, on the other hand....

[feministxtian]

Y'all are making me hungry and homesick...

Born "up north" but grew up in the Tidewater/Hampton Roads VA area. Now living near Phoenix, AZ. Yes, I say y'all, call everyone ma'am and sir, and while I don't have much of a southern accent...if I'm mad...then yeah, it really comes out.

There are still many racist and narrow-minded types there, but it's changing, slowly, but it's changing.

My across the street neighbor tried to teach me to fry chicken, but we came to the conclusion that having a "suntan" helped...or as Miss Helen put it "child, you KNOW white people can't fry chicken"....can't make good greens either. I eat okra, greens, grits (with a bit of butter and salt). I also eat arroz con frijoles and sauerbraten (my mom was Cuban and my dad was German)...

The south is a fun place to be from...great memories of some seriously wild stuff...

The difference between a fairy tale and a southerner's tale?

A fairy tale begins "once upon a time...". A southerner's tale begins "No s*it, this really happened..."

[wildflower]

Wildflower,

When I say I love the culture, I mean the food, the music (blues, country), the family connections, the friendliness, etc. I hope that makes sense. I am fascinated by the area that you are from. Is your accent different than the typical southern accent? (Not that there is actually a typical one, so I guess I'm asking what is unique about the way people from there speak?)

I love the food too although as a vegetarian I've had to make quite a few modifications that would horrify my Grandma! I'm a big fan of blue grass music as well.

Generally speaking, there are broad differences between Appalachian and "Southern" although "Southern" is really a very broad term. I can tell a North Carolinian from an Alabaman easily.

To make some broad generalizations, in comparison with Southern where the r sound is typically dropped at the ends of words (e.g. rivuh versus river), in Appalachian the r sound is retained or even added to words that don't have an r sound in standard English (e.g. "holler" for "hollow" and "Warshington" for Washington). Also, in Appalachian "e" and "i" become indistinct in certain words. Pen and pin are both pronounced "pin" which is why we refer to "writin' pins" (pens) versus "stick pins" (pins). Ain't at the beginning of a word is often pronounced "hain't"- "Hain't no reason to do that" versus "I ain't goin' to town. Older people will occasionally say "all y'uns" for "all y'all" or "you'uns" for "y'all" although this is dying out.

Some unique expressions:

the wheeled contraption that you push around a grocery store is referred to as a "buggy"

a ghost is referred to as a "haint" (pronounced haynt)

"afeared" for "afraid"

"fixin' to" -getting ready to

Some example sentences:

We was a'goin' to town when we seed a haint. Ole Jim Bob is terrible afeared a' haints so we went right back home. We's fixin' to go to town tomorrer.

Standard English translation (lol):

We were going to town when we saw a ghost. Old Jim Bob is terribly afraid of ghosts so we went directly back home. We are planning to go to town tomorrow.

Again- these are broad generalizations and the above example would probably only be spoken by a person who had been living up a holler (hollow) without television for the past fifty years. :D

[Joan of Snarc]

I love the food too although as a vegetarian I've had to make quite a few modifications that would horrify my Grandma! I'm a big fan of blue grass music as well.

Generally speaking, there are broad differences between Appalachian and "Southern" although "Southern" is really a very broad term. I can tell a North Carolinian from an Alabaman easily.

To make some broad generalizations, in comparison with Southern where the r sound is typically dropped at the ends of words (e.g. rivuh versus river), in Appalachian the r sound is retained or even added to words that don't have an r sound in standard English (e.g. "holler" for "hollow" and "Warshington" for Washington). Also, in Appalachian "e" and "i" become indistinct in certain words. Pen and pin are both pronounced "pin" which is why we refer to "writin' pins" (pens) versus "stick pins" (pins). Ain't at the beginning of a word is often pronounced "hain't"- "Hain't no reason to do that" versus "I ain't goin' to town. Older people will occasionally say "all y'uns" for "all y'all" or "you'uns" for "y'all" although this is dying out.

Some unique expressions:

the wheeled contraption that you push around a grocery store is referred to as a "buggy"

a ghost is referred to as a "haint" (pronounced haynt)

"afeared" for "afraid"

"fixin' to" -getting ready to

Some example sentences:

We was a'goin' to town when we seed a haint. Ole Jim Bob is terrible afeared a' haints so we went right back home. We's fixin' to go to town tomorrer.

Standard English translation (lol):

We were going to town when we saw a ghost. Old Jim Bob is terribly afraid of ghosts so we went directly back home. We are planning to go to town tomorrow.

Again- these are broad generalizations and the above example would probably only be spoken by a person who had been living up a holler (hollow) without television for the past fifty years. :D

If you're from southwestern Virginia, you've gotten a dope in a poke, right? Maybe some Nabs to go with that dope?

:think:

[Freyacat]

I am a born and raised Southerner who has never lived elsewhere, although not the deep south (lived in NC, KY and the mountains of southwest VA). The south has its charms but I've always wished I was from New England! Grass is always greener, I suppose. I'd move to a small town in Vermont if it weren't for jobs and family connections here.

[BravaAmica]

Just reading this thread. And now I want a Moon Pie and an RC Cola.

[ladyamylynn]

I mean the parts of the country that are not New England. :roll:

Sure, I get that New England has its own culture and geography. It just sounded like you were framing it as "The East" vs. "The Rest of the Country." Which is a strange way to frame it, since the "The Rest of the Country" is hardly a monolith. But maybe that's not what you meant. Which is why asked.

[Lillybee]

I'm with anniec, this is a fascinating thread! And I'm California! :? I went to the south for five days a few years ago and all I remember (good or bad) was when I had brisket and OMG it was to die for! And I also got a lemonade in a jar :drool: :drool: :drool: I do live in what my co-worker calls the "tea-bagger belt" (of California) and from reading this thread it seems there's a bit of the same with racism and the confederate flag but not as bad. Quite interesting. So, are people from the west also referred to as "Yankees"? Also, kind of OT but I just saw a house two days ago that had a confederate flag and two US flags but the US flags were hanging upside down. Anybody know what that means? I'm afraid to google it

Flying the US flag upside down is a sign of distress.

I wonder if you live me, in my city in far northern California, three of the five members of our city council are card carrying members of the tea party.

[CallmeChaCha]

Well, I guess it's not so much a "belt" as it is a sash (the Central Valley)

[PennySycamore]

Just reading this thread. And now I want a Moon Pie and an RC Cola.

Oh, me too!

I was told once by my 8th grade lit teacher that president's wife at Clemson University was sometimes called Moon Pie as the president was R.C. Edwards. Don't know if that's true, but it's a fun story.

[PennySycamore]

sorry if I missed it earlier, but Julia Roberts is from Georgia. http://www.biography.com/people/julia-roberts-9460157 It's a public link, so I won't break it.

Interesting, considering the crappy accent.

Dolly Parton, on the other hand....

Julia may not have had that much Southern accent to begin with. She's from near enough Atlanta to have not gotten it.

[JenniferJuniper]

Sure, I get that New England has its own culture and geography. It just sounded like you were framing it as "The East" vs. "The Rest of the Country." Which is a strange way to frame it, since the "The Rest of the Country" is hardly a monolith. But maybe that's not what you meant. Which is why asked.

I think I understand what OnceModestTwiceShy means.

I'm a native Bostonian who travels quite a bit for work and I can honestly say I feel more at home in the UK or Europe than I do anywhere south and west of Philadelphia. For instance, I think the Pacific Northwest is one of the most beautiful areas I've ever seen, but I don't think I could ever actually live there. It's hard to explain, but culturally it's just too different for me. As for the South, I know I'm the one who is talking way too fast but I just don't have the patience for slow talkers who don't always get to the point. And the whole religious culture is entirely foreign to me. I completely understand why people find New Englanders/Northeasterners abrupt and even rude but we're in a hurry, and baby, its cold outside.

As for the term “Yankeeâ€, to most New Englanders and Tri-Staters (only part of Connecticut is really in New England) it refers solely to a member on either a much loved or very much hated baseball team.

[laura oz]

Come visit and I will fry you some chicken, that came out of a can. :D

Dang, I was trying to think of something clever and you beat me. To add to the insult, you're funnier than me :lol:

edited cause I can't spell tonight

[Conuly]

Also, in Appalachian "e" and "i" become indistinct in certain words. Pen and pin are both pronounced "pin" which is why we refer to "writin' pins" (pens) versus "stick pins" (pins).

That's actually called the pen-pin merger. The short e merges with the short i before nasals, so it's easy to predict which words merge and which don't. It's not only widespread in southern American English but also in AAVE, and it is often found in midland and western American English. My older niece came home in kindergarten with a worksheet ostensibly on vowel sounds that was, for her, unsolvable because she has the merger. I do too, but my mother and sister don't. (Texan father stayed at home with us from the time I was three until he died when I was ten. My sister is older, and I guess my mom was more of an influence on her speech, at least in this respect.) So first I sent off a little note to the teacher pointing out that there was a good chance many of her students also had this merger, and then I walked Ana through a little linguistic survey of various friends and relations, where we uncovered that about half her family (mostly her fathers side) has the merger.

When her sister went through kindy at the same school, funny thing, they didn't send home that worksheet. (They also didn't send home any I for Indian ones, another complaint, but I made her mom make that one. Yes, this school just looooooves our family.)

/tangent

[ladyamylynn]

I think I understand what OnceModestTwiceShy means.

I'm a native Bostonian who travels quite a bit for work and I can honestly say I feel more at home in the UK or Europe than I do anywhere south and west of Philadelphia. For instance, I think the Pacific Northwest is one of the most beautiful areas I've ever seen, but I don't think I could ever actually live there. It's hard to explain, but culturally it's just too different for me. As for the South, I know I'm the one who is talking way too fast but I just don't have the patience for slow talkers who don't always get to the point. And the whole religious culture is entirely foreign to me. I completely understand why people find New Englanders/Northeasterners abrupt and even rude but we're in a hurry, and baby, its cold outside.

As for the term “Yankeeâ€, to most New Englanders and Tri-Staters (only part of Connecticut is really in New England) it refers solely to a member on either a much loved or very much hated baseball team.

Fair enough. I definitely missed the PNW when I lived in New York. But I encountered plenty of people when I lived there that assumed that "anywhere south and west of Philadelphia" is a cultural backwater. Which I'm sure is not what either you or OnceModestTwiceShy meant, but I still bristle a bit at the "East vs. Everything Else" dichotomy. Anyway, I love Southern food. My dad's side of the family is from SE Oklahoma, and those ladies could COOK.

[JenniferJuniper]

Fair enough. I definitely missed the PNW when I lived in New York. But I encountered plenty of people when I lived there that assumed that "anywhere south and west of Philadelphia" is a cultural backwater. Which I'm sure is not what either you or OnceModestTwiceShy meant, but I still bristle a bit at the "East vs. Everything Else" dichotomy.

I'm not rating anywhere better than someplace else. At all. Only explaining that, despite being well-traveled, I still have a fair amount of trouble relating to people in other parts of the US. And as someone who travels for business, I have to continually remind myself that the problem lies with me!

BTW, I lived for a time in NYC as well, and can state that New Yorkers are in general far, far friendlier than we hyper-provincial New Englanders.

[ladyamylynn]

I'm not rating anywhere better than someplace else. At all. Only explaining that, despite being well-traveled, I still have a fair amount of trouble relating to people in other parts of the US. And as someone who travels for business, I have to continually remind myself that the problem lies with me!

BTW, I lived for a time in NYC as well, and can state that New Yorkers are in general far, far friendlier than we hyper-provincial New Englanders.

What are some aspects of New England do you particularly enjoy or miss when you are away?

[JenniferJuniper]

What are some aspects of New England do you particularly enjoy or miss when you are away?

Like anyone, I miss home.

As I said, it's not about ranking areas. It's about feeling comfortable in a particular environment. For instance, I speak fast. I mean like "30 Rock" fast. Business meetings in some parts of the country can be very difficult for me. Again, it's my problem, but it is a problem. I'm also an atheist. Which is a non-issue amongst my friends, family, and co-workers at home, nearly all of whom are fellow atheists, agnostics, or lapsed Catholics, but it seems to be tantamount to being a devil worshipper in certain places. And something as simple as strangers chatting me up about the weather when I'm just trying to get a cup of coffee is always awkward for me. It doesn't happen in Boston. I'm sure you are a very nice person, but I just want to have my coffee in peace, thank you.

Since my travels and business dinners are usually work related, I find myself constantly having to present an image of myself that is not really true. Something I don't usually feel the need to do at home.

[ladyamylynn]

Like anyone, I miss home.

As I said, it's not about ranking areas. It's about feeling comfortable in a particular environment. For instance, I speak fast. I mean like "30 Rock" fast. Business meetings in some parts of the country can be very difficult for me. Again, it's my problem, but it is a problem. I'm also an atheist. Which is a non-issue amongst my friends, family, and co-workers at home, nearly all of whom are fellow atheists, agnostics, or lapsed Catholics, but it seems to be tantamount to being a devil worshipper in certain places. And something as simple as strangers chatting me up about the weather when I'm just trying to get a cup of coffee is always awkward for me. It doesn't happen in Boston. I'm sure you are a very nice person, but I just want to have my coffee in peace, thank you.

Since my travels and business dinners are usually work related, I find myself constantly having to present an image of myself that is not really true. Something I don't usually feel the need to do at home.

I see. Well, it's always interesting to hear what people like about their homes.

[JenniferJuniper]

I see. Well, it's always interesting to hear what people like about their homes.

Of course, I also like the history, the ocean, the mountains, the changing seasons, the world class medical care, and the fact that my next door neighbors are gay and have been legally married for nearly a decade and no one in the neighborhood has ever given a flying fuck. :D

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Fair enough. I definitely missed the PNW when I lived in New York. But I encountered plenty of people when I lived there that assumed that "anywhere south and west of Philadelphia" is a cultural backwater. Which I'm sure is not what either you or OnceModestTwiceShy meant, but I still bristle a bit at the "East vs. Everything Else" dichotomy. Anyway, I love Southern food. My dad's side of the family is from SE Oklahoma, and those ladies could COOK.

JJ, that is exactly it, thank you.

ladyamylynn, I'm sorry I was rude to you. Don't know what got into me. :oops: