Explaining The Southern USA To NonSoutherners

[formergothardite]

Even though I am born and raised in NC, I moved to a different part of it and despite living here for a long time I'm still from "out of town". Total strangers want to know if I am related to so and so and when I say that I'm not and that I'm was born in a differnent part of NC half the time they laspe into trying to figure out if they know someone I'm related to from my home town. All I wanted to do is buy a carton of milk and I end up trying to get out of giving my family history to a stranger.

[alisonwhit]

I'm going to chime in here - love this thread! My credentials are born in Florida (not the tourist Florida but the rural, close-to-the-Georgia-border Florida) and have lived in Mississippi for the past 23 years. Currently I live in a town steeped in The War Between the States (Civil War for you Yanks) history. I love the South and couldn't imagine living anywhere else. I traveled to Europe on my honeymoon and there was a couple in our tour group from Louisiana. We astounded the rest of our group by proceeding to track down people and places we knew and had in common with the LA couple. It took about 3 mentions of different family names and 5 minutes before we found friends we had in common. A couple from California was particularly impressed but it was just a regular conversation for us Southerners ;). I also got a kick out of traveling to Montana and Seattle and having the people up there look at us like we had two heads after hearing us talk - apparently not many Mississippians get way up there. We had a lot of fun messing with them and they were good sports about it. The food is great (served up some shrimp and grits yesterday to the family) and I'm glad it's been getting some recognition on the national culinary scene.

Racism - well, it still exists but MS has come leagues from where we were 60 years ago. I have tons of black friends and coworkers and one of my bosses is a black man that I have the best time with. My personal pet peeve is when a Yankee comes down here and immediately feels the need to preach to us about racism. Happens all the time - it's like some of them can't wait to get down here to "educate" us about racism. Despite the fact that a lot of them come from lily white areas. I guess MS is a favorite target given it's history. Anyway, hope I didn't offend anyone - just wanted to let it be known that MS has come a long way in this area at least in my experience.

[BravaAmica]

alisonwhit, I'm sorry, but I must correct you. It's, "the War of Northern Aggression and while it's over, it's not settled." Bless your heart... (hee hee)

[Fun-Dee]

The southern end of the Central Valley of California (Kern County in particular) gets pretty redneck too.

I'm from California (Central Coast) and I know exactly what you mean about Kern County! Really CA is made up of several states. I do not live in Southern California or Northern California. It kind of irritates me to have someone tell me that I live in Southern CA. I've heard from a relative in Northern CA that anything south of San Francisco is Southern CA. I don't think so!

My story about the Central Valley: We had a guy do some work for us a while back, and he sounded a lot like my husbands uncle who is originally from TN, but has lived in CA for years. Just a slight accent, and different tone I guess. I asked him where he was from, and he said "I'm from here, CA." I asked where he was from originally, and he said "Bakersfield."

Despite living in CA all of my life, I have a lot of relatives in OK so I do love sweet tea and fried okra! My dad has lived in CA for over 60 years and has not lost his Okie accent.

[karismanic]

I'm loving this thread, too -- thanks for all the great Southern memories. I also want to make some "chickn 'n dumplins" for dinner tonight. Wait, make that supper. :)

My background -- I grew up in rural northern Louisiana but have been away for ten years. My family is Southern to the core; both sides lived in North Carolina pre-Revolutionary War, then migrated through Alabama to Mississippi and Louisiana. Most males of the appropriate age were Confederate veterans, and several died in the Civil War. However, none of my family were of the wealthy class. All were tenant farmers who never earned enough to purchase any land. My mom and dad even hoed cotton as part of their childhood chores in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm just thankful my dad had aspirations beyond farming, because he went against the norm for their rural area and rose into the middle class. But I still have fond memories of my Papaw's farm and stomping cotton. (For those of you unfamiliar with cotton farming -- stomping cotton is when you get in the trailer after it's picked and jump up and down on it so more can be squeezed into that load -- great fun for energetic kids!)

Things I love about rural Louisiana and the South -- iced tea, huge live oak trees, pecan pie, purple-hull peas, small-town Mardi Gras, fried catfish and hushpuppies, knowing your neighbors, kids playing unsupervised outside without worry.

Things I dislike about rural Louisiana and the South -- racism, lack of education, small-town gossip, how I always reacquire my accent when I visit. :)

A few stories that might blow your mind (I've shared some of these details on FJ before):

I grew up in the 1990s, and the swimming pools in my town were segregated -- yes, in the 1990s! The high school even had separate proms, called "White Prom" and "Black Prom", and two homecoming queens -- one elected by the white kids; one from the black kids. Churches were (and still are) segregated; the same with funeral homes and cemeteries. None of these institutions were segregated by law; it was more a social divide no one dared (or bothered...?) to cross.

Any holiday with my extended family involved wearing camo, watching NASCAR, and skeet shooting. I actually brought a college boyfriend from "the North" home for Thanksgiving one time. As soon as he saw the men cleaning ducks (that morning's kill) on the carport, he got sick and demanded we go back to my parents' house.

My extended family is also very free-flowing with the N-word -- even now. It's been a good visit if I only hear that word two or three times. My grandfather even had a metal flagpole installed so he could fly the Confederate flag visible from the highway.

The typical path for a girl raised in my rural area is to get knocked-up in high school, have a quick shotgun wedding with a big write-up in the local newspaper, divorce, have more kids and baby daddies, and pursue a career at the local Walmart. Or run their own in-home, unlicensed daycare if they lean toward the entrepreneurial. I actually remember two girls in my sixth grade class who were pregnant, and at least four of my classmates were married by high school graduation. One had actually divorced.

I'm so glad I was a dorky nerd and escaped. :)

[BravaAmica]

Oh yeah. In Charleston, if you can't trace generations of your forebears here and show that they are buried in one of about half a dozen important cemeteries in the city, then you ain't from here. Never mind that I was born only 90 miles up the road. I may as well have been born in Timbuktu.

I've noticed that when I visit my relatives in Charleston! Apparently, I'm "from Charleston" because I have "people" there and the family house on Queen street is still in the family. (Trivia: If your family ever owned a house in Charleston proper, it's still the "family house" even if you sold it, lol.) Nevermind I was born and raised somewhere else... It's been a source of amusement and came in handy a few times when I went to Spoletto (I was able to score tickets to a sold out event because I was one of [my grandmother's maiden name and grandfather's surname here] people.).

Speaking of Southern tradition, anyone give their first born their mother's maiden name? My mom named my older sister with her grandmother's maiden name. And my sister named her first born with my mother's maiden name.

[AuntCloud]

I have discovered that people who are outwardly nice aren't always kind and thoughtful, if that makes any sense. It is why I included the explanation in my post that southerners aren't being polite because for the other person but for themselves. There is a certain level of arrogance beneath some types of Southern behavior, even positive behavior, that is difficult to explain to people outside of the south.

Thank you for a fascinating read, it does put many things I felt into words. Background: Hubs's family is from Israel. Several years ago we have all dispersed, some stayed in Israel, we are in Canada, in-laws and SIL are in a very, very southern place.

When my in-laws were visiting, my MIL complained about the lack of "yes-ma'am" and "no-ma'am" and strangers not saying a polite "Hello!" when you pass each other at the grocery store parking lot. It didn't matter that she also complains on how everything is church-y, how small the Jewish community is, how hard it is to make friends, how lonely she feels (her English is great and she's an outgoing person, but still).

In the meantime, we're completely immersed here. I still don't really get hockey, but most of my friends are not other Israeli ex-pats. We would have stuck like a sore thumb in a place where you will still be the weird new family two generations in. We are inherently weird, neither here nor there, it's just something my family is - has been so since I can remember, having Russia and other countries in Europe on our family resume then moving to Israel then here. It would be murder to live in a place where you can't fit in unless you've been part of the scenery for the last 300 years.

About the accent - reminds me of the M*A*S*H episode when they were trying to find a Yiddish word to complete a crossword puzzle, asked Goldman, who replied "My fam'ly's been in Alabama for seven generation now, can't help you".

[gibbsgirls]

Yeah, it's all in people's experience, I guess. :) I have never lived there, but the people I knew from Md. were Beltway types and so seemed, I don't know, less like me. But it'd be the same as saying everyone in SC is like the people at Kiawah Island.

Totally agree with you darareaksmey. Most Marylanders would probably not consider themselves southern. Most of the population are the Beltway/DC/Baltimore types. Then then rest are just sort of the rural/hick type - farmers in the southern counties; waterman/farmers of the Eastern Shore; and the mountain type in the Appalachia areas of the western part of the state. It does come down to personal experience in the way we were raised following the southern VA standards. And like you said, most of the people I know are "less like me."

[alisonwhit]

LauraElle - you're absolutely right - how could I forget to call it the War of Northern Aggression? One must always refer to that recent unpleasantness by the proper name.

[tropaka]

Late to thread but, wait a minute, RC Cola and Half Moon pies were a feature of my childhood.....way up here in Canada, where I can still get them (although I think Canada Dry makes RC up here).

[2xx1xy1JD]

Thank you for a fascinating read, it does put many things I felt into words. Background: Hubs's family is from Israel. Several years ago we have all dispersed, some stayed in Israel, we are in Canada, in-laws and SIL are in a very, very southern place.

When my in-laws were visiting, my MIL complained about the lack of "yes-ma'am" and "no-ma'am" and strangers not saying a polite "Hello!" when you pass each other at the grocery store parking lot. It didn't matter that she also complains on how everything is church-y, how small the Jewish community is, how hard it is to make friends, how lonely she feels (her English is great and she's an outgoing person, but still).

In the meantime, we're completely immersed here. I still don't really get hockey, but most of my friends are not other Israeli ex-pats. We would have stuck like a sore thumb in a place where you will still be the weird new family two generations in. We are inherently weird, neither here nor there, it's just something my family is - has been so since I can remember, having Russia and other countries in Europe on our family resume then moving to Israel then here. It would be murder to live in a place where you can't fit in unless you've been part of the scenery for the last 300 years.

About the accent - reminds me of the M*A*S*H episode when they were trying to find a Yiddish word to complete a crossword puzzle, asked Goldman, who replied "My fam'ly's been in Alabama for seven generation now, can't help you".

How does an Israeli get along with Southern manners? I know that there are Hebrew words for sir and ma'am - but I sure haven't ever heard them being used. Usually, I just know my IL's friends by nicknames - it's all Itzik and Dudik and Ruti and Etti....it takes to years to figure out their last names.

OTOH, I guess I could see her liking the fact that people talk to each other in the street. I hear regular complaints about people in Toronto being too cold, and interpreting silence as being stuck-up. As I've said before - people in Toronto almost never talk to strangers in the street, to the extent that when I tell my family in Toronto about conversations I've had in Israel, it simply makes no sense to them.

[ADoyle90815]

The southern end of the Central Valley of California (Kern County in particular) gets pretty redneck too.

That's true, there was a map of California on Facebook with the various stereotypes, and Kern County was listed as "Texas." LA County was "Sigalert" and Orange County was "Republicans."

[HereticHick]

I bet the Gothard emphasis on isolating the family, and discouraging the children from having friends outside their siblings, often clashes with small-town southern friendliness (or nosiness, if you prefer!). I had one fundy friend growing up who wasn't allowed to sleep over at other girl's houses--which made us feel insulted, naturally. She was really smart--took Advanced Placement classes with me--and then her parents wouldn't let her go to college--not even community college. The thought of that wasted potential still pains me, decades later. Looking back, I am amazed her parents let her go to public school at all.

Of course, one of the drawbacks of this Gothard isolation is it makes marrying off your kids that much harder!

[wildflower]

Wildflower, do you love the movie "Coal Miner's Daughter" as much as I do? I can't explain why--I just love it!

I adore all things Loretta Lynn! I keep hoping the rumors of a new album are true although she is getting up in years.

[Ex 2x2]

In Tennessee, it's all coke. And then you ask, "what kind of coke do you want?" I know it's not logical, but it's how it is! :) Also in Tn, pen/pin ten/tin sound the same. Fixin to is also a TN thing, as is calling a grocery cart a buggy.

The War of Northern Aggression is also referred to as the War to Suppress Yankee Arrogance. Bless all y'alls hearts!

We lived briefly in NYC, and we found people there to be incredibly friendly. This was only about a year after 9/11 though, and I think 9/11 changed NYC. Everyone says new yorkers are unfriendly...that was not our experience.

[CallmeChaCha]

That's true, there was a map of California on Facebook with the various stereotypes, and Kern County was listed as "Texas." LA County was "Sigalert" and Orange County was "Republicans."

You mean this one: (which is almost so true :D )

[meda]

I adore all things Loretta Lynn! I keep hoping the rumors of a new album are true although she is getting up in years.

When I was working in West Virginia/Eastern Kentucky, one of the neatest experiences was working in Paintsville and getting to tour her birthplace with on of her nephews.

[AddieBelle]

Glad I'm not alone in my non-Southern Southernness, lol

I have an Italian name, so right off the bat people think I'm an outsider :dance:

That's funny, I'm your opposite. I've never lived outside the south but people are always suprised to see an asian woman named Adaline Belle with a southern accent. I am literally the only Asian person in town.

[SilverBeach]

I think Honey Boo Boo ups the 'redneck' factor. At least, I hope so. Speaking of Southern food, most of America eats horribly anyway.

And there are more terrifying things to me than a 150 yr old flag with no meaning.

Symbols have meaning, not that the confederate flag is terrifying, but it is not without meaning. Then again, the confederate flag may be terrifying if you had a cross burned on your lawn by confederate flag waving hooded terrorists.

[Libby Liberal]

I kind of rolled my eyes at a lot of things in this thread, and got hungry reading a lot of other things, but then a super popular home blog wrote a post about the art they were hanging up in their preschool daughter's room. Included in the art was a silhouette of a Robert E Lee monument (they live in Richmond).

This was bad enough, but then the husband wrote a rambling response in the comments talking about what a good guy Robert E Lee really is and how that monument represents home, or somesuch nonsense.

He's my age, he lived in New York City, I really can't believe he thought this was anything like an appropriate response.

[jjmennonite]

Only to skip back a few pages...the 'redneck' definition does vary by region...

I consider Red Green to be the ultimate Midwestern US Redneck...but he's Canadian. :D

(For those who don't know and love Red Green, a non-broken public link:

http://www.redgreen.com/

)

Please tell me how you know about Red Green, and do people around you know about him? Have you heard of Bob and Doug Mckenzie? Do you know what a toque is?

Finished thread derail.

Love this thread - has really got me thinking again about how we colour our world through our perceptions.

[BravaAmica]

Please tell me how you know about Red Green, and do people around you know about him? Have you heard of Bob and Doug Mckenzie? Do you know what a toque is?

Finished thread derail.

Love this thread - has really got me thinking again about how we colour our world through our perceptions.

We get the Red Green show on PBS. And I remember Bob & Doug Mckenzie's "Take Off."

[jjmennonite]

This thread is so fascinating. I am amazed you get Red Green on American PBS.

I am laughing my head off at - no, with(not to be rude) the poster who answered the 'from an outsider, what states are south' with 'anything south of the Mason-Dixon line'. Just a polite FYI: Those of us who don't know which states are South, also don't know where the Mason-Dixon line is. (I have heard of it before and always read it as Mason-Dixie line and wondered if they make Mason-Dixie pickle jars - but that is how my ADD brain works - I almost understand Taryn.)

[shedemei]

And something as simple as strangers chatting me up about the weather when I'm just trying to get a cup of coffee is always awkward for me. It doesn't happen in Boston. I'm sure you are a very nice person, but I just want to have my coffee in peace, thank you.

I'm originally from Philly, which is slightly different culturally than New England but closer than elsewhere in the US. When I moved to Seattle I kept wondering what on earth this "Seattle Freeze" was that people kept mentioning as being a shock about moving here. I realized that native and assimilated Seattle residents mostly feel the same way about stranger chit-chat as people do in the northeast, so it seemed totally normal to me.

I can definitely relate to getting somewhat frustrated with how slowly people from some regions speak. On the other hand, I'm sure my faster speech annoys people.

Overall I really like the laid-back and casual-dressing culture out here, but frequently feel like everyone is passive-aggressive and moves really slowly.

Funny moment in accents: I had no idea that some people pronounced "Dawn" and "Don" the same way, which was awesome when my boss dictated a letter to be sent to Don.

[Conuly]

We lived briefly in NYC, and we found people there to be incredibly friendly. This was only about a year after 9/11 though, and I think 9/11 changed NYC. Everyone says new yorkers are unfriendly...that was not our experience.

No, we've always been friendly. People who say we aren't generally have never been here, or they were here but were so obnoxious that nobody was willing to disabuse them of their idiotic ideas.