Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[Carla Bruni]

Also (not to start an off-topic debate or anything) I am appalled that they circumsized 3 and 5 year old boys. Seems like a rough thing to do to children who already have a sense of their bodies, and for no real reason. Welcome to your new home, kids! Here are your new siblings, your new culture, your new language, (possibly) your new names, your new parents, and your new penises!

Fuck the name changes, this is ABHORRENT! I really don't care if you circumcise your own newborn, even if you're doing it for non-religious reasons, but circumcising an older child that isn't even yours to begin with is beyond appalling. (Here I'll admit that this phrasing isn't perfect from the perspective of unbiased logic, but it's just how I feel and I can't really explain it much better than that.)

And WHY?! Why would you put a kid with sufficient medical issues as is through that?! For what?

[August]

This post http://theblessingofverity dot com/2011/05/her-best-behavior/, it's all about how they plan to discipline Verity, and both the post itself and the comments from other mothers thankful for Susanna's guidance on how to train up their kids the way they're meant to go scream of Pearl. And in many posts there are just random phrasings that come straight out of TTUAC, and more explicit wordings in the comments. But do I absolutely know she does the thing with sitting the child down next to a forbidden toy and spanking her when she reaches for it? No. And that's why I'm goign to stand by my tatement that this child she's travelling for this week s better off with her than where he is. Not that I think rescuing children is the way to go, but that in this instance, I'm not going to do anything to stop it, and I'm comfortable with that decision.

[Witsec7]

This post http://theblessingofverity dot com/2011/05/her-best-behavior/, it's all about how they plan to discipline Verity, and both the post itself and the comments from other mothers thankful for Susanna's guidance on how to train up their kids the way they're meant to go scream of Pearl. And in many posts there are just random phrasings that come straight out of TTUAC, and more explicit wordings in the comments. But do I absolutely know she does the thing with sitting the child down next to a forbidden toy and spanking her when she reaches for it? No. And that's why I'm goign to stand by my tatement that this child she's travelling for this week s better off with her than where he is. Not that I think rescuing children is the way to go, but that in this instance, I'm not going to do anything to stop it, and I'm comfortable with that decision.

:roll:

[dairyfreelife]

:roll:

read that post. still not seeing anything that "screams of Pearl". Training up is a proverb. the pearls don' t own the phrase. need proof here.

[chaotic life]

When my first adoptee was newly home, I needed peer support from a BTDT adoptive mom. My agency, one that required I sign a NO SPANKING contract to be able to adopt from them, gave me contact information for a peer support mother.

Every blasted thing I mentioned to her I was seeking guidance to work with, her response was to suggest I should "Discipline" my pre-teen son in a manner that may it clear, even though it was not overtly said, that "Discipline" meant spanking. She even used the quotations and capital letter.

I was DISGUSTED. There are just things that you should NOT do with new adoptees. You don't strip the of their name because they are now "American." You don't circumsize them so they can "look like dad" (true story told by a family adopting a 4 year old Korean....whom I'm absolutely certain realized he didn't look like Dad without EVER having to drop his pants and compare genetalia) and you DO NOT SPANK them!!!

I gave my children a new middle name that I choose for them. They kept their original names though, even when we have to battle people around us to spell or pronounce them.

[mostlylurk]

read that post. still not seeing anything that "screams of Pearl". Training up is a proverb. the pearls don' t own the phrase. need proof here.

I got the feeling she was using corporal punishment from the bits about the soap dispenser in the following posts, although she doesn't come out and say it:

http://theblessingofverity.com/2011/07/ ... eedle-dee/

http://theblessingofverity.com/2011/06/ ... -year-old/

[OkToBeTakei]

Not sure about her training methods, but this made me sad.

theblessingofverity.com/2012/05/the-oldest-sister/

[formergothardite]

Not sure about her training methods, but this made me sad.

theblessingofverity.com/2012/05/the-oldest-sister/

That is really sad. Watching your siblings have therapy isn't school.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I got the feeling she was using corporal punishment from the bits about the soap dispenser in the following posts, although she doesn't come out and say it:

http://theblessingofverity.com/2011/07/ ... eedle-dee/

http://theblessingofverity.com/2011/06/ ... -year-old/

I dont think they are using corporal punishment. My sister is one and understands what no means, and will sometimes cry if you tell her no and dont let her play with the thing she really really wants. No spanking necessary.

[OkToBeTakei]

theresnoplacelikehome-family.blogspot.com/

Well they picked up child number one. Child number two is next week.

[veron1que]

theresnoplacelikehome-family.blogspot.com/

Well they picked up child number one. Child number two is next week.

Poor Kid. It must me so overwhelming for her. Hope she finds happiness with them, despite their child collecting.

Here's to hoping they wait longer (or forever) to add to their family again.

[dianapavelovna]

Ugh, these people.

Once our guide left us Mia started to go down hill... she is shy and talked very little already... now she was left with us who did not speak her language. We returned to the room and she quietly cried. She tried to act brave and hide it. I sat next to her and offered comfort but she was not ready to accept it.

Maybe because you - a total stranger who doesn't speak her language - aren't all that comforting to her??

Jesus, these people have adopted umpteen kids from China and they can't even learn a few words of Chinese to try and make the transition easier on the kids? Selfish.

And three kids in one swoop? Ridiculous. Who the heck is approving them to adopt all these kids so quickly?

[Emme]

Ugh, these people.

Maybe because you - a total stranger who doesn't speak her language - aren't all that comforting to her??

Jesus, these people have adopted umpteen kids from China and they can't even learn a few words of Chinese to try and make the transition easier on the kids? Selfish.

And three kids in one swoop? Ridiculous. Who the heck is approving them to adopt all these kids so quickly?

So many of my friends who have adopted, ESPECIALLY those who have adopted (or even hosted) teens have either learned words of the language or have a translator app with them at all times so that the CHILD can express him or herself and the parents can reassure the child. Also, so many kids are told (false) horror stories about Americans, like they'll be sold into slavery or sold for organs etc, so the poor girl may have been terrified.

Edited to add: They even got hospitals/doctors to provide translators for the first year or two so the kids understood what was going on, even if it was just like dental work or something (a lot of kids from orphanages have notoriously bad teeth).

[ILoveJellybeans]

Why cant she speak Chinese? She has adopted loads of kids from China, so shes got no excuse for not being at least good enough at Chinese to have a conversation.

[chaotic life]

My youngest adoptee came from India at 4. I had English-Hindi translation information....then discovered that he only spoke orphanage babble and none of it in Hindi OR English.

We did make the decision to drop all original languages for him and to focus on getting him fluent in English. However I did a LOT of pantomiming, a LOT of pidgeon English and around a year of constantly reminding myself that his English was not up to par.

When we got to the hotel and he fell apart after leaving the orphanage, we pulled out bubbles. We couldn't convey to him that we were "forever" at that point, and we didn't want to freak him out with things that would NOT necessarily comfort him. We have the most precious picture of him with those bubbles. It wasa the perfect distraction. We were able to distract him until we wore him completely out and while he was still sad at bedtime, he was tired enough that I could sit next to him and rub his back while singing so at least it was shortened and my precense was more comforting and distressing for him.

Honestly, I found music and singing to ALL of my boys something that would reach into their souls. Music is universal and something we are biologically programmed for. The rhythm and melody might be different than what a child knows, but music still reaches them.

I also am a firm believer that a full frontal confrontation with a new adoptee is NOT comforting but jarring and causes them to put their defenses up. You are a STRANGER. You cannot attempt, nor except them to accept comfort that is intimate as a parent initially. From the side or back is FAR better to help stop being a stranger and still reach out to them. Once your sound, smell and movement is not jarring and offensively "stranger" only then can you fully get a child to feel comfortable with you.

Attachment with a new adoptee is a dance. It's a slow dance, not a fast or frentic one. It requires you to continue to dance slowly and gently even when they pull away, and it requires that you start this dance as strangers, so the dance will become more familiar and intimate as you dance it as a new mother-child pair.

I'm really NOT fond of the concept of 'oh, new child I will scoop up, rescue and love forever so LOVE ME BACK NOW.' It never works that well if you try it that way, especially when you decide the attachment dance is somehow a group event and NOT the intimate and slow dance of just the mother-child pair.

[fakepigtails73]

In this particular adoption it's down to the line whether they will get their adoption through before he ages out, and he's been on a child-shopping website for a long time - years, IIRC. There is no one else, it's this or an adult mental institution.

Yes, the parents are abusive and he'll be beaten. But. He'll have human interaction, he'll have adequate amounts of solid food. He'll get physical therapy, and speech therapy. People will speak to him and smile at him. At the moment he's probably not getting more interaction than a minute twice a day to suck down his bottle. That was the situation with the nine year old they last adopted. And I think beatings interspersed with smiles and talking and food and physical therapy to loosen his joints up is better than that.[/quote[

I wrote what is under this red heading, not what's over it. I wanted to bold a quote and messed the whole thing up. DOh! :oops:

What I bolded is leaving me here completely messed up... :shock:

It's akin to telling a battered wife: "Well, hun, look at the bright side...Yes, he sleeps with strippers once in a while and "loses his temper" when he's angry at your nagging about his "stuff", but at least he pays the house, the bills, the children's private schools, yearly trips to Europe and the family membership fees at the golf club (and we know how expensive and exclusive these are, am I right?). Would you rather be alone than lose all of this? You've got to forgive him, his job is stressfull and as a kid he watched his Dad beat his Mom all the time."

Urgh.

That's all I'll say right now.

[Bloo]

You cannot say, "he'll be beaten, but..." if you want to be taken seriously as a childminder. You are condoning beating. Full stop. In some ways, it may be preferable to the orphanage, but it's still illegal immoral, and abhorrent.

[August]

Why cant she speak Chinese? She has adopted loads of kids from China, so shes got no excuse for not being at least good enough at Chinese to have a conversation.

Because this is America, and we speak English here? Would be my guess.

One blog I read once had adopted two old-ish girls a couple of years apart, and they had the older daughter's language (can't remember whether it was Mandarin or Cantonese) teacher come and visit in the early days after they brought the second daughter back. You could see the relief on the child's face in the pics.

Yes, beating is abhorrent, but would you really choose to call CPS and take responsibility for that? Really really, in real life really, not internet argument really? I doubt it, because despite your eagerness to condemn me, you haven't done anything to stop it yourself. How many times have you called on the Duggars? If you actually thought living with abusive parents was worse than starvation in a bed without human interaction for sixteen years you'd be actively doing all you could to stop it, wouldn't you?

[AuntCloud]

Chaotic Life, I should have told you this months ago but you're a true role model and a truly awesome person and parent.

[Bloo]

Because this is America, and we speak English here? Would be my guess.

One blog I read once had adopted two old-ish girls a couple of years apart, and they had the older daughter's language (can't remember whether it was Mandarin or Cantonese) teacher come and visit in the early days after they brought the second daughter back. You could see the relief on the child's face in the pics.

Yes, beating is abhorrent, but would you really choose to call CPS and take responsibility for that? Really really, in real life really, not internet argument really? I doubt it, because despite your eagerness to condemn me, you haven't done anything to stop it yourself. How many times have you called on the Duggars? If you actually thought living with abusive parents was worse than starvation in a bed without human interaction for sixteen years you'd be actively doing all you could to stop it, wouldn't you?

When I have proof or reasonable evidence that a specific child is being abused, I have indeed called CPS. In fact, my job makes me a mandated reporter.

[Witsec7]

Because this is America, and we speak English here? Would be my guess.

One blog I read once had adopted two old-ish girls a couple of years apart, and they had the older daughter's language (can't remember whether it was Mandarin or Cantonese) teacher come and visit in the early days after they brought the second daughter back. You could see the relief on the child's face in the pics.

Yes, beating is abhorrent, but would you really choose to call CPS and take responsibility for that? Really really, in real life really, not internet argument really? I doubt it, because despite your eagerness to condemn me, you haven't done anything to stop it yourself. How many times have you called on the Duggars? If you actually thought living with abusive parents was worse than starvation in a bed without human interaction for sixteen years you'd be actively doing all you could to stop it, wouldn't you?

I'm merely speaking to the bold. I'm a child of immigrants and grew up in a household where multiple languages were spoken, although as children we were only taught English. I do have friends who have had successful overseas adoptions and they made decisions to learn their languages of their child's native countries. From my perspective there is a cultural continuity that takes place when we hear the languages of our parents spoken. I don't really know the impact of an adoptive parent learning the language of their child, I think it's a respectful acknowledgement of that child's history and culture.

FWIW I wasn't aware that the US had formally adopted American English as it sole language.

[AuntCloud]

August, please tell us that by "we speak English here" you were simply stating the mindset of the average child-collector and not yours - amiright?

Reminds me of the infamous "stoopid immigrant with accent made me not understand him at the sandwich shop" thread.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Because this is America, and we speak English here? Would be my guess.

One blog I read once had adopted two old-ish girls a couple of years apart, and they had the older daughter's language (can't remember whether it was Mandarin or Cantonese) teacher come and visit in the early days after they brought the second daughter back. You could see the relief on the child's face in the pics.

Yes, beating is abhorrent, but would you really choose to call CPS and take responsibility for that? Really really, in real life really, not internet argument really? I doubt it, because despite your eagerness to condemn me, you haven't done anything to stop it yourself. How many times have you called on the Duggars? If you actually thought living with abusive parents was worse than starvation in a bed without human interaction for sixteen years you'd be actively doing all you could to stop it, wouldn't you?

Even if in America people speak English, and its important for the child to learn English so they can understand the people they meet and everything they come across in their day to day life, when the child is first adopted, they dont know English yet, so the parent should learn enough of the language spoken in their child's home country to help communicate with them until they learn English. It will help with them settling into their new home, as everything will be very confusing to them at first because they cant understand anyone and nobody can understand them. The parent being able to understand them will make things way easier as they will be able to explain things to them and understand what their child wants to say.

Theres a difference between parents we snark on, on here, and knowing someone in real life is abusing their child. We dont know that the Duggars abuse their kids, and to what extent. We can only guess due to their connections to ATI (an organisation that promotes abuse), a mention of blanket training and how they once had a link to books by the Pearls on their site and how they seem to avoid the question over whether they spank their kids. We have never seen anything abusive happen or seen kids with unexplained bruises, so CPS wouldnt be able to do anything about it.

The other bloggers mentioned here, we dont know their addresses. Theres nothing we can do but speak out against child abuse, and if members come here advocating abusive child training practices, we tell them that it is wrong and harmful to their kids, and suggest better alternatives.

If you know someone in real life who is abusing their kid, its important you speak up.

[escoterica]

One of my very favorite fundie bloggers is a child collector. If you haven't visited, I recommend it.

nogreaterjoymom.com

I'm torn about her. One the one hand, I think it's great that she's taking kids out of HORRIBLE situations (two Pleven kids) and giving them a healthy home. She also focuses on children with special needs - one child is autistic and a mute, three have Down's syndrome, one has... everything imaginable (16 years old and about 3 feet tall). No evidence that she uses Pearl methods.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure she's batshit crazy.

[B5SnowDog]

Because this is America, and we speak English here?

Because this is America, a land of immigrants, we speak many languages. English itself is a language of immigrants to America.