Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The best thing you can know about Hasya's future is to look at the few feral children that have been discovered.

I was kinda thinking of the Genie case, but yeah. On top of that it seems that this girl was put into that particular place in the orphanage to start with because she already had CP just starting out? (Of course who knows what could have been, if she had been in a normal family with that same disability.)

Hopefully her new family also has some sort of realistic expectations? Reading their blog it's hard to tell.

I have no experience with any of it but I suppose from the kid's POV, just having a bigger and more comfortable bed lair to hang out in, food she actually enjoys to eat, family contact if desired whenever she wants, and comfortable dry clothes, would be a start on a "the ideal world".

It does seem that the boy Kael is getting the short shrift right now though doesn't it? Maybe it's just me but it's like well, he's not as exotically strange, so... hmm.

[stonefruit]

I'm just glad to find out I'm not the only FJer who hate-reads Adeye's blog. Agreed that she's veering into child collecting territory!

Is anyone reading A Place Called Simplicity? What do folks think of Linny, "Mom of Many," who runs the blog?

[OkToBeTakei]

I'm just glad to find out I'm not the only FJer who hate-reads Adeye's blog. Agreed that she's veering into child collecting territory!

Is anyone reading A Place Called Simplicity? What do folks think of Linny, "Mom of Many," who runs the blog?

Shall add it to my insomnia 'to read list.'

[Emme]

I'm just glad to find out I'm not the only FJer who hate-reads Adeye's blog. Agreed that she's veering into child collecting territory!

Is anyone reading A Place Called Simplicity? What do folks think of Linny, "Mom of Many," who runs the blog?

I dislike Linny's blog. I check in out of curiosity every once in a while but I can't get past all the crazy talk! Urgh!

[dairyfreelife]

I'm just glad to find out I'm not the only FJer who hate-reads Adeye's blog. Agreed that she's veering into child collecting territory!

Is anyone reading A Place Called Simplicity? What do folks think of Linny, "Mom of Many," who runs the blog?

I'd call her a collector as well. And her eldest daughter appears to be following the path. Tell me what reputable agency would allow a pregnant woman to adopt a child in another country? I was under the impression that if a pregnancy occurs, the process stops. A new baby is an adjustment. An adopted child is also an adjustment, so trying to do both can be overwhelming, which is why most agencies stop the process until the baby is born and things settle a bit. And I believe this is her first biological child as well.

[valsa]

This. And she also seems to presume that woman should be obligated to carry babies to term for the infertile. (I'm not suggesting that women who struggle with fertility are not deserving of children, and I understand how difficult it can be to see women end an unwanted pregnancy when one is personally trying to conceive. However, to make a crude analogy, you can't take away someone's right to peanut butter because you have a peanut allergy.)

To me, it's even weirder and more presumptive than that. It's more similar to if, like, someone accidently bought a jar of peanut butter they didn't want at the store and, instead of allowing them to return it, you (general "you", in this case referring to anti-choicers) tried to legislate that they have to give the peanut butter to someone who wants peanut butter but isn't able to go to the store to get it themselves. I can't help but think "Yeah, it's nice and all if someone chooses to give the peanut butter to someone else who wants it but can't get it themselves, but to imply that people are owed that peanut butter and that the person who accidently bought it shouldn't be allowed to return it to the store instead if they want... that's a little ridiculous."

[Emme]

According to a post Linny wrote, God warned her that he was going to shut down the Russian adoptions

"The picture was His hand over the United States...but His hand was lifting. It was in regard to International Adoption. I felt like He told me at that time, "My hand of grace has been on the United States in regards to the orphan, but they have refused to turn their hearts to the orphan. People are so wrapped up in their things. Few care about the orphan. Churches don't care. Pastors have turned a deaf ear to the cry of the orphan. My hand of mercy is lifting. You will see International Adoption closing as my hand of judgment settles on America."

WTF? So now God talks directly to her? Oh the hubris....

[Joan of Snarc]

So, Adeye is in Bulgaria with the two new children and from the not sharing but comments, it appears that Hasya is NOT handling the adjustment to life outside of the orphanage.

This was my biggest concern was whether a 14 year old, 18 pound child who is so accustomed to her cage that she has literally NEVER known anything different could survive if you take her out of her cage.

There is a real possibility that this child could die from the stress and change of being rescued. It's just not as simple as "rescuing" and giving these kids a better life. The reality is that while a person will adapt to survive the worst circumstances, when you let them free from that, they don't always survive the transition. Hasya, it appears, is not doing well AT ALL with the adjustment.

So, did this Adeye person really think she could just pick this child up from the orphanage, load her on a plane, fly her to Colorado and bring her home? What, feed her a bowl of oatmeal and put her to bed and start fresh the next day? What the fuck?

She thought your average pediatrician in the suburbs who sees coughs and ear infections all day would be able to treat this child? Did she even have a medical plan in place for this child? Obviously not, since they debated where to take her and finally settled on Children's Hospital in Denver. Did she even think about this ahead of time? Is there ANYPLACE in the world that has experience treating these kinds of cases? And if there is, did she make contact with them?

If you were going to do this, wouldn't you bring at least one medical expert with you? Wouldn't you try to get the child comfortable and stable before you left? Or maybe go to Germany or somewhere and get top-notch medical evaluation and treatment until the child was well enough to fly to the USA?

Oh, but Adeye has Jeebus, right? No need for actual planning and medical professionals.

:evil: :evil:

[JesusFightClub]

According to a post Linny wrote, God warned her that he was going to shut down the Russian adoptions

"The picture was His hand over the United States...but His hand was lifting. It was in regard to International Adoption. I felt like He told me at that time, "My hand of grace has been on the United States in regards to the orphan, but they have refused to turn their hearts to the orphan. People are so wrapped up in their things. Few care about the orphan. Churches don't care. Pastors have turned a deaf ear to the cry of the orphan. My hand of mercy is lifting. You will see International Adoption closing as my hand of judgment settles on America."

WTF? So now God talks directly to her? Oh the hubris....

OK, so the answer to not enough people in the US adopting orphans is....make it impossible to adopt orphans?

God might need a simple course in logic.

[Black Aliss]

Just from someone who use to live in Russia, I can't for life of me wonder why Russia is a big draw for adoption. I know adoption is a risk, but most of those kids suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome. Unless they understand that and go all in with the expectation of getting a special need child, then why? I'm sick of hearing all these cases of people not being able to cope when find out they have fetal alcohol syndrome and their not the perfect little international toy of charity.

Because they are white. And boys are readily available. There are plenty of adoptable kids in this country, especially if you will consider children with special needs. Unfortunately they're usually the "wrong color".

[Freed]

I just thought of something awful. I really hope these people aren't using their kids to teach them/their siblings about sin, the way my mother did. I was adopted through a private network from a single woman who simply didn't have the resources to raise me. I have never and would never fault her for that (we're actually in contact now, and talk on FB frequently). My mother decided to use this as a teaching tool to explain why premarital sex and abortion are wrong, and adoption is wonderful, and how it was great that she could teach me the ways of the Lord even though I was born from sin. It's really fun being 12 and suicidal and thinking that you kind of wished she hadn't decided against abortion.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

So, did this Adeye person really think she could just pick this child up from the orphanage, load her on a plane, fly her to Colorado and bring her home? What, feed her a bowl of oatmeal and put her to bed and start fresh the next day? What the fuck?

She thought your average pediatrician in the suburbs who sees coughs and ear infections all day would be able to treat this child? Did she even have a medical plan in place for this child? Obviously not, since they debated where to take her and finally settled on Children's Hospital in Denver. Did she even think about this ahead of time? Is there ANYPLACE in the world that has experience treating these kinds of cases? And if there is, did she make contact with them?

If you were going to do this, wouldn't you bring at least one medical expert with you? Wouldn't you try to get the child comfortable and stable before you left? Or maybe go to Germany or somewhere and get top-notch medical evaluation and treatment until the child was well enough to fly to the USA?

Oh, but Adeye has Jeebus, right? No need for actual planning and medical professionals.

:evil: :evil:

I just read the latest posts over there (the guest posts from the last three days) and came back in here in to ask the same sort of question!!!

As it is, she's at a Children's Hospital getting a complete workup, and will likely end up with future case planning and whatever else. Okay (I hope that family has REALLY good insurance, though).

But yeah. She only went there because the regular hospital just did the minimum "give an IV for emergency and send back home" (kinda makes me wonder how those doctors saw her survival chances, honestly) and she only went THERE when the kid stopped eating. Now, she had mentioned in previous posts that Hasya would likely need to have physical therapy at some point at least (for her contractures and whatnot) but it would seem that they were planning to just keep her home for a while first? Or what? I just dunno.

This whole thing has led me to do a google search and it seems the girl doesn't just have CP either, she also has Down syndrome...?

I just thought of something awful. I really hope these people aren't using their kids to teach them/their siblings about sin, the way my mother did.

I don't know about that, but in the last few posts on the blog when asking for mail to be sent to the girl's hospital room and whatever, they make a point of saying it's important to show those around her at the hospital that even life such as this matters, etc. So they do have a proselytizing bit about them, but then I suppose probably every single thing the woman ever does ever for any reason probably also does, just considering her writing.

The situation with your mother just sounds horrible. I'm sure it's complicated too, but... good thoughts your way. Any telling of kids "you're terrible but *I* was able to save you" in any way just creeps me out and I'm only some random person on the internet HEARING about it even.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Because they are white. And boys are readily available. There are plenty of adoptable kids in this country, especially if you will consider children with special needs. Unfortunately they're usually the "wrong color".

Boys are available from China now too (the "only girls are abandoned" thing is not current) but interestingly enough it seems adopters in the US favor adopting girls, boys are not as favored partly because, well, stereotypes of Asians in the US tend to be more favorable (for some creepy versions of favorable) for girls/women than boys/men. Some of the good to read China adoption blogs (the breath of fresh air blogs among the sea of the "my little egg rolls" types) that did adopt boys talk about this.

[valsa]

Because they are white. And boys are readily available. There are plenty of adoptable kids in this country, especially if you will consider children with special needs. Unfortunately they're usually the "wrong color".

I feel like I've addressed this before, perhaps even earlier in this thread. But here goes-

1) I'm not sure what the part about boys has to do with anything. Boys are readily available everywhere (even in places like China, which is often viewed as a "girls only" country) as girls are more popular with international adopters. Out of about 9,300 international adoptions in 2011, 1000 more girls were adopted than boys, even though girls are scarcer and the waiting periods can be much longer.

2) There are many reasons people choose international adoption vs domestic foster care adoption or even choose one international country to adopt from vs another country and not all of them have to do with race.

3) And so what if the choice does have to do with race? Why is it so horrible that some people feel they can't adequately parent a child of another race? Interracial adoption is a "special need" adoption all by itself and requires its own special education, preparation, and comes with its own (sometimes significant) challenges. Some people feel they couldn't deal with the racism, stereotypes, scrutiny, etc (often piled on from people of both the race of the parent and of the child) that comes with parenting a child of another race. Some feel they wouldn't be able to properly handle helping a child/teen/young adult cope identity issues stemming from having lost a birth family, a origin country/culture/language, AND being raised in a transracial family. Others worry about handling hair and/or skin care they're unfamiliar with. Some people just want to be able to go out to eat with their family without immediately being labeled (or having their child(ren) immediately identified as adopted) These are all issues interracial adopters have to deal with and it's not a moral failing to not be able to do so.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I just thought of something awful. I really hope these people aren't using their kids to teach them/their siblings about sin, the way my mother did. I was adopted through a private network from a single woman who simply didn't have the resources to raise me. I have never and would never fault her for that (we're actually in contact now, and talk on FB frequently). My mother decided to use this as a teaching tool to explain why premarital sex and abortion are wrong, and adoption is wonderful, and how it was great that she could teach me the ways of the Lord even though I was born from sin. It's really fun being 12 and suicidal and thinking that you kind of wished she hadn't decided against abortion.

That is awful :(

Its so cruel to adopt a child for that purpose, but I am guessing there are a lot of fundies who do this.

[Joan of Snarc]

But yeah. She only went there because the regular hospital just did the minimum "give an IV for emergency and send back home" (kinda makes me wonder how those doctors saw her survival chances, honestly) and she only went THERE when the kid stopped eating. Now, she had mentioned in previous posts that Hasya would likely need to have physical therapy at some point at least (for her contractures and whatnot) but it would seem that they were planning to just keep her home for a while first? Or what? I just dunno.

This whole thing has led me to do a google search and it seems the girl doesn't just have CP either, she also has Down syndrome...?

The post said she's unable to swallow so she didn't eat or drink anything throughout the trip and the time they were at home. She had to be close to death. It is stunning that the first hospital just gave an IV and sent her back home. What the bloody hell?

They could have had the dehydration treated and antibiotics started and a feeding tube inserted before they ever left Bulgaria. Can you imagine carrying this child on a plane? I'm assuming it was a normal commercial flight since there's no mention of a medical charter or anything. The flippancy with which this was undertaken blows. my. mind. Completely emotionally driven and no plan in place to help this child other than Jesus.

It's not enough to fucking swoop in and rescue these children. You've got to actually DO YOUR BEST to help them. I get the impression with Adeye and some of these others that it's all about them -- not the kids. It's all LOOK AT ME! I'M GOING TO BULGARIA! I'M GOING TO RESCUE THIS PRECIOUS CHILD! GOD!!!! JESUS! LOOK AT ME! LOOK WHAT I'M DOING! Forget I've got these other kids at home that need me LOOK AT ME! I'M THE MOST SPECIAL! I'M DOING THIS! I'M SAVING THIS KID! LA TI DA JESUS SAVES NO REASON TO THINK THIS THROUGH EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE I'M LOADING A 26-POUND 15-YEAR-OLD WHO'S NEVER BEEN OUT OF A CRIB HER ENTIRE LIFE ONTO A DELTA FLIGHT! WOO HOO! GO ME! Jesus is great.

:roll:

[OkToBeTakei]

blessingofverity woman at least has more insight in to the issues and not only addresses them but is trying to educate others.

Refeeding syndrome? Hello?

The verity person took her own PT and seems far more informed.

It actually makes me happy this child IS in hospital. With the 'care' they thought they could give. They may possibly have killed her.

ETA

We have taken Hasya to the hospital because she hasn't eaten since yesterday and she hasn't drank anything since she arrived home last Saturday.

I sincerely hope she got that the wrong way round?

[Morton Fan]

The post said she's unable to swallow so she didn't eat or drink anything throughout the trip and the time they were at home. She had to be close to death. It is stunning that the first hospital just gave an IV and sent her back home. What the bloody hell?

They could have had the dehydration treated and antibiotics started and a feeding tube inserted before they ever left Bulgaria. Can you imagine carrying this child on a plane? I'm assuming it was a normal commercial flight since there's no mention of a medical charter or anything. The flippancy with which this was undertaken blows. my. mind. Completely emotionally driven and no plan in place to help this child other than Jesus.

It's not enough to fucking swoop in and rescue these children. You've got to actually DO YOUR BEST to help them. I get the impression with Adeye and some of these others that it's all about them -- not the kids. It's all LOOK AT ME! I'M GOING TO BULGARIA! I'M GOING TO RESCUE THIS PRECIOUS CHILD! GOD!!!! JESUS! LOOK AT ME! LOOK WHAT I'M DOING! Forget I've got these other kids at home that need me LOOK AT ME! I'M THE MOST SPECIAL! I'M DOING THIS! I'M SAVING THIS KID! LA TI DA JESUS SAVES NO REASON TO THINK THIS THROUGH EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE I'M LOADING A 26-POUND 15-YEAR-OLD WHO'S NEVER BEEN OUT OF A CRIB HER ENTIRE LIFE ONTO A DELTA FLIGHT! WOO HOO! GO ME! Jesus is great.

:roll:

I'm not necessarily trying to white knight for the mother, but as a parent of a special needs child myself, I personally cut her a bit of slack for the above. Getting your child evaluated for therapists can sometimes take a VERY long time because of red tape. Depending on how the custody situation was, she may not have even had the legal capability to set up doctors/therapists, etc. until the child came home and/or was legally her responsibility. Even lining up specialists and doctors is much harder than one might think - you have to get referrals before you can make appointments, and I'm sure no doctor would give a referral before the parent has physical custody and the doctor has seen/examined the child in person. She may also not have diagnoses yet (or at least, formal diagnoses), which makes it even more difficult to know which specialist(s) to see.

It's obvious this little girl has major delays and requires a huge amount of care; I agree with others that I hope that mother is prepared for it. However, I don't necessarily blame her for not having all of her ducks in a row immediately upon landing - there were tons of unknowns and it is difficult for ANY mom of a child with special needs to navigate uncharted waters.

[Joan of Snarc]

Understood. But we are talking about a 26-pound 15-year-old who's never been out of her crib, can't swallow and is constant pain because her joints have fused. I can't believe the best course of action is to load her on a plane for a transatlantic flight, get her "home," and hope for the best with some physical therapy lined up for the future. This is not your average case.

That said, I hope the doctors and nurses in Denver can help her and she has as comfortable and rewarding a life as she possibly can in the future.

[C Potter-Pirbright]

That said, I hope the doctors and nurses in Denver can help her and she has as comfortable and rewarding a life as she possibly can in the future.

Adeye just posted a photo of Hasya in her hospital bed. Hopefully she is now getting much better care than she has before. I can't remember clearly but I do think she *tries* to be proactive about helping her special needs children, with various therapies etc , while of course keeping it sweet. Then again when you see who she's married too, not surprised.

She is a definite hate read for me, while I like to see pictures of Hailee and Harper looking well, her views just disgust me. Her pro life everyone must carry any child with Down's Syndrome( and other abnormalities or well just babiez!) because all babies are a gift regardless of if you can cope makes me rage. No that is not how it works, all children deserve the best, if I for one cannot cope with parenting said child and help it thrive (obviously I mean before it is born) then I reserve the right to decide. And no, not everyone can do that, thats just bollocks.

[LilMissMetaphor]

In a post from some time ago, someone asked Adeye if they were planning on taking Hasya to the hospital once they got her home and she answered "definitely. We will probably get right off the plane and go directly to the hospital". That was when Hasya was still visibly emaciated. What doesn't make sense is that once they knew she was going to be adopted, she gained a bit of weight because they were (presumably) feeding and treating her better, but did Adeye think that weight gain meant that they could just show up in their home, plop Hasya in a crib, feed her and do a bit of PT and call it a day?

[chaotic life]

Not true, actually. Both of my medically complex sons were seen by their specialists within 48 hours of arriving home. Both of the specialists nurses helped coordinate with me for travel considerations and care. I had medicine with me traveling internationally as well (expensive medicine the specialist got donated by the drug company for free to us). We had in-country doctors lined up in his city of residence but not the interim city. However, I knew enough about international travel that when we needed a doctor, I asked the hotel front desk for the hotel doctor, who proceeded to travel with us to a private Pediatric hospital owned and run by his personal friend.

While processing the visa, the embassy allowed me to make a free international call to family that coordinated communication with the specialist to make treatment protocal en route. I was prepared to embark in Amsterdam if necessary but I watched him carefully and got him to the US to his doctors. We even managed to keep him from having to go inpatient. The other child had to go inpatient but we were able to hold it off for a few weeks to help him settle.

As for traveling with a medical expert, that's actually why we paid extra funds for both of us to travel for both of those kiddos. *I* was the medical expert. DH worked with coordinating travel and ancillary needs and I wore my medical hat to get them home safely.

I never even thought about that aspect of Adeye. However, she had similiar problems when she brought Hailee home. She cannot claim she didn't understand and with her DH a hospital chaplain, she HAS connections in the medical community. A retired family practice doctor is writing her updates for the moment. So I cannot figure out why she was SO unprepared and didn't set up the connections with the doctors before she brought that child home. Demonstrating we were prepared to meet their medical needs was part of both our homestudy AND visa process.

[Morton Fan]

In a post from some time ago, someone asked Adeye if they were planning on taking Hasya to the hospital once they got her home and she answered "definitely. We will probably get right off the plane and go directly to the hospital". That was when Hasya was still visibly emaciated. What doesn't make sense is that once they knew she was going to be adopted, she gained a bit of weight because they were (presumably) feeding and treating her better, but did Adeye think that weight gain meant that they could just show up in their home, plop Hasya in a crib, feed her and do a bit of PT and call it a day?

That's interesting and odd that she didn't follow through; clearly, a few "extra" pounds doesn't change the situation at hand.

[Black Aliss]

I feel like I've addressed this before, perhaps even earlier in this thread. But here goes-

1) I'm not sure what the part about boys has to do with anything. Boys are readily available everywhere (even in places like China, which is often viewed as a "girls only" country) as girls are more popular with international adopters. Out of about 9,300 international adoptions in 2011, 1000 more girls were adopted than boys, even though girls are scarcer and the waiting periods can be much longer.

2) There are many reasons people choose international adoption vs domestic foster care adoption or even choose one international country to adopt from vs another country and not all of them have to do with race.

3) And so what if the choice does have to do with race? Why is it so horrible that some people feel they can't adequately parent a child of another race? Interracial adoption is a "special need" adoption all by itself and requires its own special education, preparation, and comes with its own (sometimes significant) challenges. Some people feel they couldn't deal with the racism, stereotypes, scrutiny, etc (often piled on from people of both the race of the parent and of the child) that comes with parenting a child of another race. Some feel they wouldn't be able to properly handle helping a child/teen/young adult cope identity issues stemming from having lost a birth family, a origin country/culture/language, AND being raised in a transracial family. Others worry about handling hair and/or skin care they're unfamiliar with. Some people just want to be able to go out to eat with their family without immediately being labeled (or having their child(ren) immediately identified as adopted) These are all issues interracial adopters have to deal with and it's not a moral failing to not be able to do so.

Seems to me you read an awful lot into a couple of lines. Nowhere did I say that it was a moral failing to want a child with lighter skin color. If you have an axe to grind, please leave me out of it.

My information about the availability of adoptable boys came from acquaintances who have adopted internationally, so certainly not as valid as your numbers (sourcenot cited, but I'll assume you have a primary source).

[JesusFightClub]

I feel like I've addressed this before, perhaps even earlier in this thread. But here goes-

1) I'm not sure what the part about boys has to do with anything. Boys are readily available everywhere (even in places like China, which is often viewed as a "girls only" country) as girls are more popular with international adopters. Out of about 9,300 international adoptions in 2011, 1000 more girls were adopted than boys, even though girls are scarcer and the waiting periods can be much longer.

2) There are many reasons people choose international adoption vs domestic foster care adoption or even choose one international country to adopt from vs another country and not all of them have to do with race.

3) And so what if the choice does have to do with race? Why is it so horrible that some people feel they can't adequately parent a child of another race? Interracial adoption is a "special need" adoption all by itself and requires its own special education, preparation, and comes with its own (sometimes significant) challenges. Some people feel they couldn't deal with the racism, stereotypes, scrutiny, etc (often piled on from people of both the race of the parent and of the child) that comes with parenting a child of another race. Some feel they wouldn't be able to properly handle helping a child/teen/young adult cope identity issues stemming from having lost a birth family, a origin country/culture/language, AND being raised in a transracial family. Others worry about handling hair and/or skin care they're unfamiliar with. Some people just want to be able to go out to eat with their family without immediately being labeled (or having their child(ren) immediately identified as adopted) These are all issues interracial adopters have to deal with and it's not a moral failing to not be able to do so.

Um, Valsa, I normally agree with you but there are multiracial families in the world. We don't all look the same.

I'd be happy to go to a restaurant with my (racially mixed and far younger) relatives without worrying if everyone was staring at us and obsessing about if the younger folk were all adopted,

I took younger relative to a zoo and there was a place where you could pet ducks and various big animals. He likes animals. He was very well behaved and eager to touch them. Someone came over and said "Oh, he's well behaved! Are you his mum?" (He's very obviously mixed race). I laughed, and said "No, but thank you! He's not a bad kid."

My family contains multiple ethnicities and it's not a concern. I doubt I'm alone.