Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I've read almost all of the blog now, between starting from the first entry after having read a bit backwards from the end to follow this thread earlier this week.

When I posted about Haven with Autism, I was reading the part of the blog during and shortly before her adoption, when Adeye and family hadn't met her yet. She was going on what she had been told, that the girl had autism, and blogged that people had been suggesting that she do research into what that would mean - but she didn't see the point in it. That was the attitude that rang alarm bells for me. It's this "I'm going to love the kids no matter what their issues are, so I don't need to know what their issues are" attitude that I find disturbing.

Of course yeah it turns out later that supposedly she doesn't have autism, but I'm with you, from the little I know about autism, all her sensory issues and how she can't handle change well and all that sure sounds like it could be some form of it. I suspect they're ruling it out because she's sociable. (I also found it weird how they were saying that somehow in China they call it "closed syndrome" as if that's some exotic thing - the word is 自閉症 same as in Japanese, and yeah, literally it's "closed into yourself syndrome" but the modern understanding of it is "autism" and just as scientific as here, she maybe was dealing with people who did not explain things well or had English issues but sometimes she just really comes off as assuming that in China no one knows anything about anything.)

Fast forward some, and every so often she gives little teaser hints that they've given Haven some tests or whatever, and she mentions that people have been ASKING about how she's doing/what's up with her, etc, but then she never really gives details. That's when she lately always brings up the PTSD thing, but also she will say she doesn't mind if Haven doesn't speak ever, as long as she's safe at home and happy. Which is good, to be accepting, but... call me a skeptic, but again it's the "I don't need to know what's going on because we'll love her just as she is anyway and besides it's all up to Jesus, this must be God's Will and that's that, that's enough for us" thing. Or as you put it, "love and Jesus will heal everything." She's 11 years old and functioning as a 3 year old, there has to be something going on.

I just can't help but wonder, if she had gone the public school route, perhaps retried it after the first attempt didn't go so well, and gotten therapies (or therapies at home, or done by Mom, or...?) if she can maybe get some form of nonverbal communication going, I know kids who don't speak OR sign but hand over tokens, for instance. Obviously I'm just some random reader on the internet, but I think sometimes you have to push kids, even when they don't want to do something at first, so that they can pick up some skills, at whatever level they're at - not to the point of stress abuse, but not just saying "well, we'll just stand back and see what happens" either. As it is, it seems like she just doesn't officially homeschool, she doesn't go to school, she just stays home, and "is." Which is fine I guess, at 11, but...? I'll admit some of those posts come off as defensive.

She has pictures of the younger kids (from Ukraine) going to PT, I do wonder what they will do when they become of school age (if we pretend that both of them came home at 2 years old and count from there).

Then of course there's the way the blog changed from a "we're adopting a kid (Haven) here's our blog so you can follow along" family blog to more of the "here's another kid! And another!" endless fundraisers for special needs adoption situations (particularly after the Ukrainian adoptions). I get it that the neglect situations are terrible but there really starts being a "gotta catch 'em all!" desperation vibe to it.

And now she's got two more, one of whom is the super fragile ultra-neglected "looks like a baby but is really old" kid from a room like "that room" that she's been going on about for a few years now, and yeah I can't help but wondering how that is going to impact the other kids at home. She's the "ultimate" special needs type, so the other kids with more "ordinary" special needs ("just" DS, for instance)... what happens?

I can't help wondering how the 4 kids who will likely grow up to have regular jobs/lives (the three sons and first-adopted daughter) feel about this too, because they will have FIVE siblings who will likely need lifelong support.

...damn blog is addictive :) And I do wish all the kids the best.

[Joan of Snarc]

Ima have to try to read the whole thing this weekend. I have to try to figure this bitch out. :lol: Did you read all the comments too?

I can't believe she would take a 14- and a 12-year-old (and no adults!) with her to pick up these last two children. What if Hasya had seized en route? Or died? Or died shortly after they got home? How traumatized would those two boys have been? They might have felt fully or partly responsible.

[stonefruit]

Ima have to try to read the whole thing this weekend. I have to try to figure this bitch out. :lol: Did you read all the comments too?

I read her blog on my RSS feed, so I never see the comments. ... That may be better for my blood pressure, come to think of it!

[LilMissMetaphor]

I can't believe she would take a 14- and a 12-year-old (and no adults!) with her to pick up these last two children. What if Hasya had seized en route? Or died? Or died shortly after they got home? How traumatized would those two boys have been? They might have felt fully or partly responsible.

Jesus was watching them, o ye of little faith.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Ima have to try to read the whole thing this weekend. I have to try to figure this bitch out. :lol: Did you read all the comments too?

I can't believe she would take a 14- and a 12-year-old (and no adults!) with her to pick up these last two children. What if Hasya had seized en route? Or died? Or died shortly after they got home? How traumatized would those two boys have been? They might have felt fully or partly responsible.

Heh. I read some of the comments, when the article was one giving information about her kids and their (interesting) issues. But:

(1) The comments are effed - I don't know if she exported and reimported the blog a few times or what, but the comments repeat, mutiple copies right after each other and then the whole list again, etc. So it will say 40 comments (and you can only display 5 at a time, yay) but there are maybe 18 to 10 unique ones.

(2) She screens all the comments. So you will not see any negative commentary. Most of the comments are "praise Jesus!!" and "yay the Lord always provides" type stuff, plus the occasional cheering at a kid's achievement.

(3) She occasionally ALLUDES to getting negative commentary both on the blog (which she doesn't let through) and in person. She mentions hearing from people who criticize the idea of her personally adopting so many kids, which I think is a valid criticism (though she obviously doesn't). She also mentions people just writing hate comments about pics of her kids though, which I will say is completely uncalled for if it's happening.

She also mentioned though getting the occasional "PC complainer" mail from people with disabilities or having family members with disabilities or whatever that take her to task for some of HER language (and presumably patronizing attitude which I think comes through sometimes - all the "God made you perfect just like this" stuff, the way it's said sometimes in context, comes off as almost fetishistic, sometimes). Her response to that is pretty much "how can you worry about that when there are so much bigger problems to face."

But the overall theme of the blog is "God will provide, he will make everything work out, it always does, because I'm invincible with Jesus, so there's no need to listen to any of the criticism" (or worry about the money, or what will happen later, or, or, or...) Christians are all called to adopt, to save the orphans, and she makes continual references to Satan hating it when another kid is brought into a proper Christian family. The main thing is just to get them out, and worry about what happens later, later, because Jesus and love will change everything.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Jesus was watching them, o ye of little faith.

Exactly...

[Joan of Snarc]

Thanks gardenvarietycitizen. I'm not even going to try to read the comments.

[JesusFightClub]

That....doesn't sound much like PTSD. Small and I both have it.

Small gets really over the top angry at things. She wants control at all times. She also has meltdowns where she screams "I want mummy." Sometimes it makes you pretty tearful to hear that.

First of all she was replaying the scenario of her mum's death over and over again when she talked to you. We let her do it (although painful) so she could get things out.

But she was talking, she wasn't 11 and nonverbal. More going on there than PTSD.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

But she was talking, she wasn't 11 and nonverbal. More going on there than PTSD.

Yeah. The girl in question is 11 years old, does not talk purposefully at ALL, though very occasionally they can get her to repeat some sounds like "mama" "baba" or "hi" so they know her physical voice works. She doesn't sign, in fact apparently she doesn't take any voluntary attempts at communication at all - no bringing mom a glass and tapping her arm when she's thirsty, for example.

She has (in the past year?) learned to do 16-piece puzzles, and that was with a lot of instruction. The blog puts her developmental age at somewhere around 3 years old. She doesn't like loud sounds or lights or overstimulation generally, freaks out in crowds, couldn't deal with other kids on the playground for a long time (one of the main reasons they took her out of public school that they tried for a VERY short time). She wasn't potty trained at 8 or 9. She used to have trouble walking on uneven surfaces, but recently finally got glasses so that might help.

But, she's very affectionate with her family, I can only assume that's the main reason they say she doesn't have autism, as the stereotype is that autistic kids don't relate well with ANYONE else. At some point after the first year (if I recall right, I read this thing all in a giant binge) they started mentioning that she has scars of some sort from the orphanage and I think that's where they started assuming it's PTSD from.

When she first came to live with the family, they lived in a very small school district without any special education classes, and of course they homeschool anyway. She tried public kindergarten (at age 8) because her younger sister would be in the class, and she was very delayed then, but also panicked at being with the other kids and refused to go to the bathroom, so they pulled her out of school and she didn't go back since then as far as I know. The family just decided to say "well, she'll do what she's gonna do, but she's loved and that is what really matters."

At some point they did a bunch of physical tests and find nothing wrong (no obvious brain damage or anything like that). To get therapies or other referrals requires an IQ test, they didn't want to do this for a long time (because of the "it puts labels on" thing, and just my gut feeling they didn't want to maybe know the answer) but finally they agree to do a test, but can't afford a specialist so someone they know at the public school offers to do the test, but only gives the verbal test, so the number is low (as it probably would be anyway) but also meaningless. Apparently that tester never heard of nonverbal IQ tests, which definitely exist (but if the kid only recently learned to do a 16 piece puzzle, I suspect the answer is still going to be low, because those tests are all about detecting patterns and manipulating things in space). So, they didn't go back, I don't think. One commenter offered to help get a better test but I don't know if the mom ever took up the offer, it's never mentioned.

And so now, as far as just reading the blog, it seems they just let her be her, but she doesn't do any schooling, home or otherwise. I'm sure she's happy and I'm sure they love her to death but... she not always going to be 11, y'know? Even if she never lives alone, any improvements in voluntarily making her wishes known to others will improve her adult life immensely. As it is, mom says her sister always knows what she wants, and that's good enough, they can just ask her.

Meanwhile, around 2011 in the big "here's another kid! and another! and hey! Need to rescue this one!" phase of the blog, there are links to other families who adopted some of the "seriously neglected and look like babies stunted kids" (most having Down Syndrome but a few with other issues, before the neglecting) and some of those families blog too. Haven't read them yet though.

[dianapavelovna]

Yeah, I don't buy the "just PTSD" line either. She may very well have PTSD, but the hallmark symptom clusters are reexperiencing, avoidance, and hyperarousal, none of which sound like how Haven is described on the blog (except possibly hyperarousal). I agree with gardenvarietycitizen and others that it sounds more like an autism specturm or pervasive developmental disorder. And if she's completely nonverbal and doesn't have any substantial means of communicating otherwise, making a sound PTSD diagnosis would be very hard, especially since they know very little about her history. /internet diagnosis

Mostly I just hate the attitude that everyone else has described - "she's here Jesus and we love her Jesus so that's all that Jesus matters Jesus." It's truly, sincerely great that they love her no matter what strides she is or isn't able to make. But shouldn't they want to see her succeed and improve as much as she possibly can?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Not gonna deny either I wonder how much of it is partly due to a desire to show that the Chinese orphanage was wrong to say she has 自閉症(autism).

[chaotic life]

You can have PTSD and autism. My son with autism certainly showed signs of PTSD. However, those did NOT negate his autism. Haven has autism. Her signs and symptoms are absolutely CLASSIC. That she is affectionate does not negate autism. It was always my biggest frustration that people continued to claim since my son was highly affectionate and could talk up a storm (even though most of his speech was a form of echolalia but repeating back what he heard in the form of non-stop questions) that he couldn't POSSIBLE have autism. Our pediatrician used to do battle with the school, including a doctor's order for autism education for the school nurse one time and used to rant when we talked, "Haven't they ever heard of RAINMAN???"

There were days when I wondered if just leaving my son to retreat into his autistic mind might have been a better choice than pushing and challenging him to learn how to interact properly with the world around him.

Haven has autism. Only the denail of her parents stands in the way of the actual label for her. They don't believe in "labels." They are also inconsistent with therapies and recovery for ALL of their children that need such services. They've started AND stopped therapiies for Harper and Hailee as well. They don't have therapies as often as they do, and Haven gets even less than the others.

That's fine to run her own orphanage with half a dozen children who will be permenantly dependent upon her, but what are they going to do when these children outlive them? I'm sure they simply assume their normal children will simply step in and care for adult, disabled siblings for the rest of their lives. Sometimes, it's like stepping back into 1950 with her and how she approaches her children's special needs. It's clear the children are loved. It's just not clear that they are getting sufficient help to reach their potential.

[itsnikki05]

My only thing is... that is a LOT of children. These kids probably have needs and such that... they really need ATTENTION from the parents. I don't see how that happens with so many kids. But I only have one child and I swear she takes up all my time, so maybe that's why I don't understand. *shrug* (BTW- I'd LOVE to adopt. But maybe... one or two. Not THAT MANY!)

[meep]

I don't know if this has already been brought up but in one of her posts she admits that one of the children is having problems "opening up" to the family, including her and her husband. And she writes this while in China, hoping to adopt three more children. She should spend more time with the kids she already has rather than getting more kids before the others are even connecting with her.

[GoodbyeBlueMonday]

Wow, Adeye's most recent post has some gems:

But for the most part, we get it. We understand that we live in a fallen world where sin abounds. We get it that in many nations, children who are born with special needs will not have much worth or value. We understand that we’re dealing with cultures and societies which don’t grasp God’s amazing love for ALL children. We are fully aware that we’re dealing with many complex issues which, very sadly, all contribute to a massive humanitarian crisis that millions of orphans on the planet face every moment of every day.

Translation: The reason why there are neglected orphans is because other cultures are evil!

As for me, well, I’ll continue to pray for biological parents who feel the need to abandon their children and for orphanage workers who are meant to care for precious angels around the globe.

And I’ll continue to beg the Lord to intervene and to raise up Godly families who will go and missionaries who will be sent out to places in desperate need. Because the truth is that those of the world are not called to care for orphans. Nor are governments. God never commissioned those who do not walk in His ways.

He set us--His glorious body--apart and commanded us to care for the widow and the orphan in their distress. It’s not a “calling†for the chosen few--it’s a requirement for all believers (orphan care in its various forms, not just adoption!).

So is she basically suggesting that the only solution to the "orphan crisis" is to either a.) ensure that all orphans are adopted by "Godly families" or b.) convert everyone in the offending countries and governments filled with "those of the world"?

For fuck's sake. I'm not sure if this women is just sort of obtuse or if she's actually stupid. I hate that she has such a voice and following in the international/special needs adoption community because she is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE regarding her children's birth countries/cultures and, as far as I can tell, kind of a dimwit.

[OkToBeTakei]

My only thing is... that is a LOT of children. These kids probably have needs and such that... they really need ATTENTION from the parents. I don't see how that happens with so many kids. But I only have one child and I swear she takes up all my time, so maybe that's why I don't understand. *shrug* (BTW- I'd LOVE to adopt. But maybe... one or two. Not THAT MANY!)

Is this there'snoplacelikehome blog you are referencing?

I'm working my way through this. I like her. I find it hard to see any bad in her apart from the obvious ELEVEN toooo much thing. But she does know what she is doing. I made some judgement comments up thread about loss of culture etc. She is addressing this. Whilst I am not sure of her motivation, it is not a bad one. But given her age it is worrying. I am only on adoption three. Two sisters. It seemed to ramp up from there. Maybe my view will change. She is hard not to like.

[JesusFightClub]

GBM, those quotes, as you say, what the fuck. It's always the same with fundies "We're so saintly, we're so perfect, getting it all right"..."

Or if they want to appear humble, they say "Tee hee hee! I'm a Christian under the godly headship of Daddy! But [after long list of ways they excel] I don't want you to think I'm perfect! Why, I sometimes spend too long in bed or pick the wrong pattern at the store when I'm going to make a dress!"

I would like to know:

Why they homeschool when they struggle to construct a sentence in English.

Why they have not realised the Bible is not about how fantastic they already are because of their virtuous selves, but "show thyself approved".

When they get the command to help the poor, the widow and the stranger. That is a command, not an option.

Why they don't know (see above), the poor, widow or stranger might sometimes be a bit unlike them. This may startle a person at first, but they ought to get over it.

Why they don't get that "eliminate the welfare state but rely on churches" means that you have to take poor and addicted folk how they are. You have to expect people showing up rubbing their noses, throwing up, wearing clothes they've worn for two weeks, being fairly incoherent and telling you inappropriate things. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them struggling people.

[GoodbyeBlueMonday]

Adeye does the whole "Oh my. You're such a sinner. Well God bless you. I'll pray for you." self-righteous, myopic thing like no other. I just hope she doesn't convey to her adopted children what a sinful, fallen culture she believes they were born into. Sheesh.

[chaotic life]

I find her condemnation of other cultures rich for an Afrikaner.

I am actually sickened by this recent post. She really DOES believe love will conquer all and it doesn't matter what is wrong, nor what her children might need. She doesn't even believe the doctors that Hasya will grow to approximately the size of a normal six year old, at most.

She reminds me of my word of faith grandmother who informed me that if I had enough faith, my son would be cured of his CF, his Autism, his Bipolar AND his low IQ!

[Joan of Snarc]

Wow, Adeye's most recent post has some gems:

So is she basically suggesting that the only solution to the "orphan crisis" is to either a.) ensure that all orphans are adopted by "Godly families" or b.) convert everyone in the offending countries and governments filled with "those of the world"?

For fuck's sake. I'm not sure if this women is just sort of obtuse or if she's actually stupid. I hate that she has such a voice and following in the international/special needs adoption community because she is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE regarding her children's birth countries/cultures and, as far as I can tell, kind of a dimwit.

Is she trying to say that only Christians should adopt? Would she rather have those children stay in orphanages than be adopted by a secular family? It's hard to understand what she's trying to say through all the religious mumbo-jumbo. No doubt she's a dimwit.

That one picture of Hasya on the update today was really cute. You can see what long, pretty eyelashes she has. I bet all the dental work is going to be hard for her to tolerate. Poor little thing.

:angelic-little:

[GoodbyeBlueMonday]

I find her condemnation of other cultures rich for an Afrikaner.

THIS

[dianapavelovna]

THIS

But she wasn't a part of any of that nasty apartheid stuff, dontcha know.

I was born and raised in South Africa and spent the first thirty years of my life as an African girl. Growing up there was so wonderful. I actually grew up in the 80's in a small, independent homeland within South Africa. The Transkei, as it was formerly known, had its own government and was autonomous from South Africa. The beauty of my childhood was that I was completely oblivious of the apartheid regime in South Africa. I had a very carefree childhood. At that time there was hardly any crime and we spent our days riding around our neighborhood, swimming, spending holidays in shacks on the Wild Coast (which is a breathtakingly stunning part of the country where we also spent our honeymoon), and just being kids.

The Transkei was such a diverse homeland--rich in many, many different cultures and people from all over the world who immigrated there as business people and store owners. I remember having people of so many different countries and backgrounds in my school. I had no idea about segregation and some of my best friends were black people (yah, she said that)--which was unheard of in the rest of S.A. at that time. I was so blessed.

Everything changed, of course, when I got into high school and attended an all-girls boarding school (I lasted all of one year in an all-girls school!) in South Africa. I was shocked that there were no black people in my class--to me it was the strangest thing. Thankfully, all that changed so radically just a few years later as my country went through major political changes.

The rest of the post is worth reading (gagging at) too.

nogreaterjoymom.com/2012/03/answering-your-questions.html

[C Potter-Pirbright]

I'm not even sure if its a case of 'other cultures' rather than 'you don't subscribe to all my thoughts and beliefs as a Christian and therefore you really just are sinners, and doomed and I'm saving all these children don't you see?' But yes the Afrikaner comment (having been engaged to one) my only comment is AUGH and BAH and possible ruder words.

Adeye might be currently forced to get Hasya treatment but she'll be damned if thats what will help her, because medical science bah, everyone knows that LOVE and God are the only cures to everything. Irritates me something chronic when people talk like that.

[Diana]

The worst thing for me about this woman it is that she called one of her new childs the same name than the dog! she tried to do that before with other of the adoptees but in the last moment her family convinced her to not do that, because it was really weird.

But this time she called the child like the dog and just said: its not a problem we are going to change the dog name...

Just imagine the situation, she calls the poor girl(a 11 year old kid, who she changed her real chinese name!!) and then the dog shows up... :doh:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I can't believe I read the whole thing...

The attitude about the home countries in places bugged me too - I already wrote some about the mention of China and "closed syndrome" before, but in later years too there just seems to be this idea that the US is somehow the only place where wow, all these kids will be magically just accepted because Americans are just so open-minded, and isn't it great? As if no one elsewhere in the world has any compassion for disabled people at all, and monetary resources just never enter into it.

As I posted before, just imagine if some foreigner comes to the US and decides to adopt a kid who has been completely screwed over by the US system, raised in utter poverty and abused in a bad foster care placement and next to death from a tooth abscess, or whatever. And let them judge that wow, that's what the US is about, all of it, no nuances involved.

There's a post from years ago where one negative comment DID get through - she was posting about some kids in Ukraine that might possibly be taken in by local foster families, and how they must be rescued by American Christians before such a terrible thing should happen. Why? Because according to her, all the families that might take in a local kid are only doing it for the money and all that money will just go to alcoholism, and the kids will just be neglected and taken advantage of by their drunken foster families. As IF (1) she has any way to know those people's motivations or judge them all the same when she can't even speak word one of the language never mind participate in any local media or culture there, and (2) she thinks that doesn't happen on occasion in the US too (because it DOES). Someone told her not to judge all Ukrainians that way, but there was no response to that.

Later there were appeals to save kids who are about to age out of the Chinese system, and Ukrainian system, not even special needs really either but just older kids. These are kids who have grown up to the age of 16 already, certainly not in the privileged parts of society by any means (but not neglected either, they were not intellectually disabled, in normal orphanages, sent to school, etc) and it turns out that not all of them are 100% eager to be adopted abroad when it finally is asked of them at age 16, and there's some "how terrible for the prospective adoptive parents who spend all this $$$ only to not get the kid." (That's not from Adeye's blog, but from some other blogs linking to hers, also with tons of adoptive kids, that I found on a search for info on Hasya's situation - and that blog asked rhetorically, well, what if you gave that $$$ to the kid so he can attend university at home in his own country??? He'd gotten in, but needed money.) Certainly there's hurdles to be overcome when aging out of the system, starting out as a non-privileged person, but this idea that somehow it will always be better to join a new culture at age 16 (like, two years before they'd leave home in the US anyway) just kinda boggles the mind. Some of them do go for it, but express that they take the opportunity because they can get US citizenship and make something of themselves at university and then return to their home countries in a few years, and this too was looked upon as "that's so mercenary, how can they think that way, that's not what we're about" etc etc.

There are a few posts talking about negative reactions that Adeye has gotten while out, to her own kids with DS - she sees people avoiding them, etc, and she realizes, hey, there are prejudiced people in the US too. And she's posted with some reflection that she herself probably used to be one of those people. I did appreciate that part, but it would be nice if she extended that consideration beyond the border.

Overall though particularly in the latter posts there seems to be some serious fetishization going on. I think chaotic life perhaps put it best when she wrote that reading this blog feels like a step back into 1950 as far as attitudes toward the disabled goes. There's acceptance, which is a fine thing, BUT!!! it comes as a package with:

(1) endless "the purpose of these kids is to teach us about how every life is sacred, they are so beautiful just as they are because they are angels they teach us compassion (and unspoken: let us save them)" fetishization

(2) endless "they're wonderful and in God's image JUST as they are" which turns into what seems like "so there's no need to push them or have actual expectations for them to strive and learn to the best of their abilities, because that would be judging them and we can't have that, because we must accept them as perfect already"

(3) Jesus!! Plain ol' common sense loving and plenty of Jesus and God will solve everything, we can't do anything (so again, no need to push anyone to struggle and learn), God has a plan, just step back and see what He does, because that's the ultimate acceptance, WE don't need to actually, like, plan

(4) Anything is better than the horrid places they came from, so it shouldn't matter what happens other than they are loved to death and happy, allowed to be who they are with full stomachs and in a loving family

With the super emaciated kids in particular, there is often some pretty rapid changes at first, and that's exciting. They are rescued and they fatten up and start looking like regular kids, even if 10 years behind their actual age and still extremely delayed. Call me cynical and mean, but it almost seems that as things "plateau out" more or less, the excitement moves onto new (or potential new) cases, the new project. Surveying a bunch of blogs that theme seems to be out there, to me.