Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[valsa]

Seems to me you read an awful lot into a couple of lines. Nowhere did I say that it was a moral failing to want a child with lighter skin color. If you have an axe to grind, please leave me out of it.

My information about the availability of adoptable boys came from acquaintances who have adopted internationally, so certainly not as valid as your numbers (sourcenot cited, but I'll assume you have a primary source).

2 out of 4 of your sentences deal directly with the race of the child. I'd say that it could be considered the central theme of your post. And the statement that parents don't adopt non-white children from U.S. foster care just because they're the "wrong color" does make light of the complex reasons people may not feel comfortable adopting a child from a different race and implies, at best, that doing so is frivolous.

As for citations, is the U.S. State Department good enough for you? (for numbers on adoptions having already taken place)

http://adoption.state.gov/about_us/statistics.php

For numbers on the availability of boys, all you have to do is go to any international adoption agency's website and take a look at the waiting times for boys vs girls. Or read the numerous articles in the adoption world about the "forgotten" boys, if you're that interested in confirmation.

[Mama Mia]

Why would people assume the child was adopted ? I guess people might think that, but wouldn't they be more likely to think that maybe the child's other parent was whatever race the child appeared to be ? Or if there were two parents at the table, both of one race and the child was another - wouldn't you be more likely to think that maybe one of the parent's was the step-parent ? If you thought about it at all.

I'm not arguing, I'm just asking ... maybe it depends on if you have a lot of multi-racial families in your area how much notice from strangers there would be ?

[valsa]

Um, Valsa, I normally agree with you but there are multiracial families in the world. We don't all look the same.

I'd be happy to go to a restaurant with my (racially mixed and far younger) relatives without worrying if everyone was staring at us and obsessing about if the younger folk were all adopted,

I took younger relative to a zoo and there was a place where you could pet ducks and various big animals. He likes animals. He was very well behaved and eager to touch them. Someone came over and said "Oh, he's well behaved! Are you his mum?" (He's very obviously mixed race). I laughed, and said "No, but thank you! He's not a bad kid."

My family contains multiple ethnicities and it's not a concern. I doubt I'm alone.

That's true. What I was thinking of with that is what I've read from some adult adoptees who are a different race from their adoptive parents. Some of them felt uncomfortable growing up in a transracial family because they felt like they weren't ever able to "blend in" with their adoptive families. Some of them also have stories of people asking/making intrusive and sometimes rude questions/comments on a regular basis.

Something like that wouldn't be enough to keep me from transracially adopting but I respect the decisions of the people that would be a deal-breaking for.

[chaotic life]

Last stastistics I saw was that while domestic adoptions are fairly close to 50/50 boys vs. girls, for reasons I've never seen anyone attempt to quantify, international adoptions consistently run 75% girls and it is NOT due to a lack of availability of boys. In fact, it was the strong preference for girls in international adoption that led to the abuses and corruption in Vietnamese adoptions.

While most societies place higher value on boys and thus there is a bias that there are more girls available for US adoptions, Vietnam places higher value on girls. There was high demand for girls available for international adoption and far fewer girls available in the country. Thus, facilitators began to traffic and pay for girls to create a supply for the demand they were seeing.

In international adoption, the older, the darker and the higher the special needs a boy has, the lower his chance of EVER finding an actual adoptive home. It is MUCH harder for boys to find families in international adoption, even with identical demographics to girls outside of gender. No one really wants to touch on the whys but it's a known statistical fact in adoption circles, well supported both by adoption reearch and statistics kept by USCIS back several decades.

[Mama Mia]

In international adoption, the older, the darker and the higher the special needs a boy has, the lower his chance of EVER finding an actual adoptive home. It is MUCH harder for boys to find families in international adoption, even with identical demographics to girls outside of gender. No one really wants to touch on the whys but it's a known statistical fact in adoption circles, well supported both by adoption reearch and statistics kept by USCIS back several decades.

My theory ( based on absolutely nothing) would be that there would probably be an assumption that boys behavior problems would be harder to manage - with more aggression, and greater physical difficulty controlling an older boy if he acts out. There might also be a fear of sexual acting out if there are already girls in the home.

I know this can be an issue when it comes to shelters .. many won't take older boys.

[dairyfreelife]

My theory ( based on absolutely nothing) would be that there would probably be an assumption that boys behavior problems would be harder to manage - with more aggression, and greater physical difficulty controlling an older boy if he acts out. There might also be a fear of sexual acting out if there are already girls in the home.

I know this can be an issue when it comes to shelters .. many won't take older boys.

That's my theory as well, Mrs. S2004. That it's the concern for behavior issues, size and strength with aggression and definitely in regards to sexually harming other siblings in the house. Also, no statistics or basis for the theory except my thoughts.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

That's true. What I was thinking of with that is what I've read from some adult adoptees who are a different race from their adoptive parents. Some of them felt uncomfortable growing up in a transracial family because they felt like they weren't ever able to "blend in" with their adoptive families. Some of them also have stories of people asking/making intrusive and sometimes rude questions/comments on a regular basis.

Something like that wouldn't be enough to keep me from transracially adopting but I respect the decisions of the people that would be a deal-breaking for.

I can't blame anyone for not taking on those issues myself. Where I have a problem (as much as I can have, being some random commenter on the internet) is reading blogs where people DO adopt transracially (specifically non-Asian American parents adopting Asian background kids, just due to my own life experience, but I'm sure it's the same for other groups too) and yet act as if the ethnicity issue is not anything, will never be a problem, or else they just fetishize the whole thing, but there's no connecting with any community or having any sense that the KID is gonna have identity issues. I can't really have the hubris to say I "Have A Problem" with it either, mind, but... let's just say I worry for certain aspects of life those kids are probably going to run into that their adoptive parents don't seem to want to realize are going to happen.

Not blending in with the adoptive family is part of it, the other half is, they go to college and meet Asian-American kids raised in Asian-American families or they meet Asian kids raised in Asia and immigrated for college, and are assumed to... know, certain things, and they won't (if raised by some of the bloggers I'm thinking of), because they weren't raised with any of it, they never were given ties to that community that they will be assumed to have ties to. Are those expectations based on assumptions? Heck yes, but they're still there.

Meaning, I think your post on "Why Russia?" was validly explanatory. If people are looking for kids where they will "blend in" looks-wise with their adoptive families, it's one source.

I just get bugged by all those "my little egg rolls!" type blogs ever since I had that blog binge last year (sparked by FJ!) and realized just what that whole scene can involve.

[JesusFightClub]

That's true. What I was thinking of with that is what I've read from some adult adoptees who are a different race from their adoptive parents. Some of them felt uncomfortable growing up in a transracial family because they felt like they weren't ever able to "blend in" with their adoptive families. Some of them also have stories of people asking/making intrusive and sometimes rude questions/comments on a regular basis.

Something like that wouldn't be enough to keep me from transracially adopting but I respect the decisions of the people that would be a deal-breaking for.

Ah, now I understand. Yeah, those could be concerns for the child and if the parents lived in a small place maybe, they wouldn't want to be asked questions by every daft bastard that came along. I'm not planning on adoption now but if I did want to adopt from a different country I'd ask community groups in where I was if they had any programs for children of that background first. That way they can see "there's others like me over here" and "I am not weird."

I get the impression Americans are a bit blunter on these matters than folk in the UK? I've only ever got "Are you his/her mum?" or people presuming I was.

[Joan of Snarc]

There's an update from Adeye on Hasya on the nogreaterjoy blog.

[greek_chorus]

That poor young girl young woman. She should be dealing with the frustrations of adolescence, hormones, boys, etc; instead she has all the problems of a micro-preemie and octogenarian combined. Adeye and I have next to nothing in common but I can see how Hasya would tug at the heartstrings. I too am surprised that she didn't expect to be in the hospital once they returned. If I was going to start adopting more than one child with severe special needs, I think I would live closer than two hours to the nearest children's hospital. If nothing else I would have flown to Denver and planned to stay there for awhile. The B&W photo Adeye posted is a nice shot of Hasya. If you only look at her eyes, she could be a 15 year old young woman. It really is heartbreaking, but I agree with the others that collecting children and trying to save, just that one... is not the answer.

[chaotic life]

I'm a little stunned that she was not prepared for Haysa's issues. It sounds rather like what I would expect it to be for that child after what she has been through. I cannot grasp how she did not have a doctor prepared to act once she got home with her and had to bumble around to figure out what hospital to even go to.

That said, yes, she does seem to be doing everything she can for Haysa and getting her the care she needs.

Know what is MISSING from that post though?? Kael....the afterthought who is bonding with siblings and no mother, which will continue an orphanage mentality and burden those older brothers to take a parenting role for him so mom can care for Haysa.

She had NO business adding Kael to this adoption. She's done a terrific job advocating and motivating other families to adopt special needs children. If she had done that for Kael, she would have found him a home with her fans just like she's done for dozens of other children. By adopting him with Haysa when she CANNOT meet his needs, she condemns him to not getting the same chance as Hasya. She also is taking away Haven, Hailee AND Harper's primary caregiver and leaving siblings and dad to carry the burden of them. They are still fragile children who NEED their primary caregiver and they won't continue to thrive without momma there either.

[Joan of Snarc]

She had NO business adding Kael to this adoption. She's done a terrific job advocating and motivating other families to adopt special needs children. If she had done that for Kael, she would have found him a home with her fans just like she's done for dozens of other children. By adopting him with Haysa when she CANNOT meet his needs, she condemns him to not getting the same chance as Hasya. She also is taking away Haven, Hailee AND Harper's primary caregiver and leaving siblings and dad to carry the burden of them. They are still fragile children who NEED their primary caregiver and they won't continue to thrive without momma there either.

It's a completely fucked-up situation. I appreciate that her heart's in the right place, but could her execution have been any worse? All of those kids deserve better. She almost killed that poor, tortured little girl. Just think, the poor thing survived 14 years in Pleven only to be almost done in by an American fundie do-gooder with more money than sense.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Know what is MISSING from that post though?? Kael....the afterthought who is bonding with siblings and no mother, which will continue an orphanage mentality and burden those older brothers to take a parenting role for him so mom can care for Haysa.

She had NO business adding Kael to this adoption. She's done a terrific job advocating and motivating other families to adopt special needs children. If she had done that for Kael, she would have found him a home with her fans just like she's done for dozens of other children. By adopting him with Haysa when she CANNOT meet his needs, she condemns him to not getting the same chance as Hasya. She also is taking away Haven, Hailee AND Harper's primary caregiver and leaving siblings and dad to carry the burden of them. They are still fragile children who NEED their primary caregiver and they won't continue to thrive without momma there either.

Did you read the post where she decided to adopt him? It's here: www.nogreaterjoymom.com/2012/06/yes-we-are.html

The whole thing is just weird, the "little voice," all of it. The way their every thought is somehow cast as God's Own Holy Direction Opinion, or something.

I do feel sorry for him, for all the reasons you've stated already but also there's a bit of "look at this extremeness" feel to her posts about the new adoptions, but as horrible as his circumstances may have been, his story (currently) pales in comparison to Hasya. I mean, he's able to be at home in a more or less plain household being looked after by other family members, while Hasya is in the hospital and getting all this attention for being "wow, the extreme case, can anyone believe it." I don't mean to trivialize the word after what those kids have been through before, but dare I say it it almost seems, well, neglectful.

[Rosa]

JFC, I was a nanny to black kids in London briefly, and I got asked, straight up "Are these your kids? They're awful black". I was seriously stunned. But here in the US people do assume that kids are adopted (or conversely, that mom is the nanny, if Mom is darker and the kids are lighter).

[MarthaMarcyMayMarlen]

You all do know there is a bunch of stuff about the Pearls on the nogreaterjoy site right? They are a sponsored site and they write blog posts.

[OkToBeTakei]

From theresnoplacelikehome-family.blogspot.co.uk/

Mia got her vaccinations- I almost forgot that she needed them because she is actually 11 but we are planning to make her 9 or 10- so I think of her as younger now.

I'm confused. Anybody?

[DarkAnts]

From theresnoplacelikehome-family.blogspot.co.uk/

I'm confused. Anybody?

They may be trying to match her age with her maturity level.

[OkToBeTakei]

They may be trying to match her age with her maturity level.

But how do you suddenly make somebody a different age legally?

[DarkAnts]

But how do you suddenly make somebody a different age legally?

Amending a birth certificate is hard. I guess they can argue that no one knows Mia's real age because she was an orphan. I dont know if that will fly. They could also just pretend that she is 9 or 10. I wonder how that will play out when she actually sees her birth certificate as an adult.

[OkToBeTakei]

That is indeed a can of worms!

[19 dogs and counting]

So you have all exclaimed shock about Adeye not taking Haysa to Doctor immediately and I totally agree. I'm still reeling over the fact that this kid hadn't received any seizure meds since the couple drops at the orphanage. What the hell is she thinking? It also makes no sense that she went to an ER and they just gave her thrush medicine and a syringe and sent her home. I wonder what her glucose level was? Maybe the kid was in status epilepticus and that's why she hasn't been eating or drinking? Also, if the guest blogger is also a doctor why didn't she step up immediately to get this child examined and put on fluids and tube feeding? They have been home a week! WTF! Many things about this scenario just aren't making any sense.

[littlehouse]

My first though was perhaps they don't think Haysa will survive, but all will be okay since now they have her in their god fearing family. So really Haysa dying would be a blessing because now she is saved and knows god? So she doesn't need a doctor.

[greek_chorus]

My first though was perhaps they don't think Haysa will survive, but all will be okay since now they have her in their god fearing family. So really Haysa dying would be a blessing because now she is saved and knows god? So she doesn't need a doctor.

Even if Adeye didn't think this, I got the impression that's what the ER docs thought (about Hasya being near death), which is why they sent her home. I'm sure there's a lot that Adeye's not telling us, but I think it's more likely she underestimated how sick Hasya really is. If they really thought her death would be a blessing I don't think they would have moved her to the Children's Hospital in Denver. It makes no sense.

[littlehouse]

I admit I don't know much about adoption, but perhaps if they didn't take her to the Children's Hospital they would have problems in the future adopting more children later? A form of neglect?

[greek_chorus]

I admit I don't know much about adoption, but perhaps if they didn't take her to the Children's Hospital they would have problems in the future adopting more children later? A form of neglect?

I hadn't thought of this. I guess that makes sense. Perhaps Chaotic Life can shed more light on the subject.