David and Priscilla updates

[nokidsmom]

Watched the video just now and wow, is it painful. Pris comes off as just so delayed and out there. Whether her limitations are a result of nature or nurture, it honestly has to be tough for David, who comes off as more intelligent, in spite of his weird "golly gee whiz" manner. Every time I see what I call the "happy, happy, joy, joy" videos featuring the two of them, I think David is trying to cover up some disappointment in the marriage, and I don't think it necessarily has to do with his orientation, whichever it may be.

In reading his story on their website, it was clear he did not want to get married (for whatever unknown reason, I didn't understand all the blahing, blahing he wrote) and was basically forced into it by parents / Gothard because it was the thing to do. He choose Priscilla because she seemed to be on his radar, he mentioned her, parent's thought "great! here's someone!", and he was pushed into starting a courtship with her. I don't thing he had any idea of what he was in for, when he married her, of what it would be like to be married to someone who clearly is like a child.

[apple1]

He's the Administrative Director now. Gothard's no.2.

I don't see this.

I see an IPLP communication signed "David Waller, Assistant to Mr. Gothard". I found another page where David Waller is listed as one of 3 young men in a team of "assistants".

"Administrative assistant" is frequently used as a job title for what used to be called "secretary".

IPLP has a Board of Directors and David is not on it. (Those guys are all much older than David).

Just sayin'... I can be corrected with evidence.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Does Gothard like David as much as he likes his beautiful young female interns?

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't see this.

I see an IPLP communication signed "David Waller, Assistant to Mr. Gothard". I found another page where David Waller is listed as one of 3 young men in a team of "assistants".

"Administrative assistant" is frequently used as a job title for what used to be called "secretary".

IPLP has a Board of Directors and David is not on it. (Those guys are all much older than David).

Just sayin'... I can be corrected with evidence.

linkedin.com/in/davidwwaller

I can't remember the blog post that mentions his promotion, but his LinkedIn profile has his new designation on it. I don't think he is a secretary/administrator. His job is probably not a high level executive one right now, but he certainly does a lot of teaching and travelling, which does not suggest to me that he is an envelope-stuffer/diary manager.

[GeoBQn]

I don't see this.

I see an IPLP communication signed "David Waller, Assistant to Mr. Gothard". I found another page where David Waller is listed as one of 3 young men in a team of "assistants".

"Administrative assistant" is frequently used as a job title for what used to be called "secretary".

IPLP has a Board of Directors and David is not on it. (Those guys are all much older than David).

Just sayin'... I can be corrected with evidence.

Secretaries/Administrative Assistance used to be male-only positions in the 19th and early 20th Century. The difference is that for men, secretarial work was considered a stepping stone. They used it as a way to learn the ins and outs of a company before advancing up the corporate ladder. For women, it was a position with almost no hope of advancement. (I recommend "Swimming in the Steno Pool" by Lynn Peril for a cultural history of secretaries.)

[Guest Anonymous]

I think that David is a "Director" of the young people's ministry, from what I can see. No doubt he has aspirations to be overall Director, one day in the not-too-distant future.

He said on the blog that he committed not to travel alone in his first year of marriage. Once Pris is knee deep in diapers, I am sure he will find a way to put his career interests ahead of his family life.

[moreorlessnu]

We've seen and heard Priscilla speak several times before she met David. While she always came across as sweet, girlish and docile, she didn't come across as unsure and halting as she does now. It's almost like everything that comes out of her mouth now has to parrot what David would say. That may be why she comes across as unable to get coherent thoughts out; they aren't her thoughts.

Priscilla's version of religion may be a simplified "Jesus-loves-me-this-I-know-for-the-bible-tells-me-so" whereas David's take on religion is more complex, mapping the changing colors of the leaves to Jebus dying on the cross for us. If David thrusting (yeah, I know) his version of religion on her is not clicking with her, then that would explain much of the dynamics that we see between them (i.e., Priscilla struggling to get words out while David watches over her like a parent prompting a child).

[WonderingInWA]

We've seen and heard Priscilla speak several times before she met David. While she always came across as sweet, girlish and docile, she didn't come across as unsure and halting as she does now. It's almost like everything that comes out of her mouth now has to parrot what David would say. That may be why she comes across as unable to get coherent thoughts out; they aren't her thoughts.

Priscilla's version of religion may be a simplified "Jesus-loves-me-this-I-know-for-the-bible-tells-me-so" whereas David's take on religion is more complex, mapping the changing colors of the leaves to Jebus dying on the cross for us. If David thrusting (yeah, I know) his version of religion on her is not clicking with her, then that would explain much of the dynamics that we see between them (i.e., Priscilla struggling to get words out while David watches over her like a parent prompting a child).

Exactly -- like a parent prompting a child. I sure hope he reads here. He should be very worried about what he's gotten himself into.

[apple1]

I find myself astonished by number the FJ-ers posting things to the effect of "Poor David, look what he's gotten stuck with in the case of Priscilla."

Why not, "Poor Pris, look who she's got lording it over her" ??

ETA The both of them appear to me to be casualties of a very destructive system, but my sympathies are first with the one on the obvious bottom of the heap.

[Morton Fan]

I think that David is a "Director" of the young people's ministry, from what I can see. No doubt he has aspirations to be overall Director, one day in the not-too-distant future.

He said on the blog that he committed not to travel alone in his first year of marriage. Once Pris is knee deep in diapers, I am sure he will find a way to put his career interests ahead of his family life.

I know ... as if life is easier now that she'll have a child, and she'll need a partner less.

[Morton Fan]

I find myself astonished by number the FJ-ers posting things to the effect of "Poor David, look what he's gotten stuck with in the case of Priscilla."

Why not, "Poor Pris, look who she's got lording it over her" ??

ETA The both of them appear to me to be casualties of a very destructive system, but my sympathies are first with the one on the obvious bottom of the heap.

I don't feel sorry for David at all. I've noted lots of posters on this particular thread who, like me, feel that Priscilla may have been duped into marrying him as a beard, and feel bad for her if that is the case.

[WonderingInWA]

I don't feel sorry for David at all. I've noted lots of posters on this particular thread who, like me, feel that Priscilla may have been duped into marrying him as a beard, and feel bad for her if that is the case.

I don't feel sorry for David at all, either. He made the decision to marry her and he could have stood up for himself and he didn't. I feel it's unfortunate that he married someone who is so childlike, but he made that choice as a grown adult.

I don't really feel sorry for Prissy, either. She's just brainwashed enough to be ignorant to the situation she's in and will likely continue to be grateful for it. It's better than living in a trailer with your parents all your life. Well, I think...

[yewchapel]

I find myself astonished by number the FJ-ers posting things to the effect of "Poor David, look what he's gotten stuck with in the case of Priscilla."

Why not, "Poor Pris, look who she's got lording it over her" ??

ETA The both of them appear to me to be casualties of a very destructive system, but my sympathies are first with the one on the obvious bottom of the heap.

Agreed. I don't think David is happy in the marriage - not that he wanted to get married anyway. But Priscilla is being treated like a child and having any autonomy she may have had before taken away, and that is surely worse. At least as the headship, David has some control. Pris has none.

[Ex 2x2]

Can someone point me to the duggars videos with Prissy in them? I don't watch the show, so I missed those. I'm not sure how to go about figuring out which episodes she's in.

[moreorlessnu]

Exactly -- like a parent prompting a child. I sure hope he reads here. He should be very worried about what he's gotten himself into.

I hope he reads here.

David needs to figure out how to incorporate what Priscilla brings to the table into his ministry without trying to turn her into a female David. Priscilla could bring a different angle to the Waller preaching. For some, her simply, sweet approach might just hit the spot.

Anna Duggar was very effective when she spoke from the heart at the women's prison. She spoke of her miscarriage, and said something to the effect that people told her it was God's will, but that she had struggled with that. She spoke of very honest emotions and didn't sugar coat her disappointment. Even her father was nodding in agreement w/ her.

[Arete]

I finally watched the Valentines Day video, and it was really sad watching David watch Priscilla every time she spoke. When she watched him, she was smiling and nodding in adoration and agreement; when he watched her, his facial expressions and occasional slow nods were what you would expect of someone listening to a child rehearse lines or a speech. Almost like he's expecting her to mess up & trying to will the correct words to come out. I don't know why I get this vibe, but I don't feel like he's patient with her or understanding. I imagine he's pissy and frustrated with her a lot and that makes me sad if she's truly delayed and unable to change.

The bolded is definitely a learned behavior among women in ATI circles. If you watch JB Duggar or Gil Bates speaking when their wives are next to them, both women affect this vacuous adoration in their facial expressions while looking toward their husbands - it's actually creeping me out just picturing them while I type. Best guess is that all these women get some training that this is what a good little helpmeet does when her Lord and Master is speaking. What they don't get, as is probably the case with Priscilla, is interaction with trained proffesionals for learning and developmental delays. I wonder how much further Priscilla's intellect and skills could have been developed if she was in even a crappy public school system. Problems would have been identified and plans would have been executed to help her reach her potential, instead all the poor girl got was some praying over.

[bluelady]

Watched the video just now and wow, is it painful. Pris comes off as just so delayed and out there. Whether her limitations are a result of nature or nurture, it honestly has to be tough for David, who comes off as more intelligent, in spite of his weird "golly gee whiz" manner. Every time I see what I call the "happy, happy, joy, joy" videos featuring the two of them, I think David is trying to cover up some disappointment in the marriage, and I don't think it necessarily has to do with his orientation, whichever it may be.

In reading his story on their website, it was clear he did not want to get married (for whatever unknown reason, I didn't understand all the blahing, blahing he wrote) and was basically forced into it by parents / Gothard because it was the thing to do. He choose Priscilla because she seemed to be on his radar, he mentioned her, parent's thought "great! here's someone!", and he was pushed into starting a courtship with her. I don't thing he had any idea of what he was in for, when he married her, of what it would be like to be married to someone who clearly is like a child.

I agree. While I think Priscilla's holding the much shittier end of the stick, I don't think David's end is pristine.

Yes, David is a giant dickwad. He's pompous and arrogant. He has a superiority complex. He believes in taking away rights from women and gay people. He would hate me, or at least look down on me, because I am a liberal, pants-wearing feminist and I live with my headship without being married. He's an asshole. And, he's the product of a very sheltered, singularly-minded environment.

I think he's going through the motions of what he's been taught to do - he's just doing it very poorly. It's been said before that it would be hard to go from a no-touch, never alone courtship to be expected to be in love and do the deed in less than a day. Now, imagine that you are (potentially) not the least bit physically attracted to your wife and she's (potentially) delayed to the point where you can't even have meaningful conversation with her. Or at least meaningful conversation that's of interest to you. I don't blame him for saying his human love gets tired. Mine would too, if I had to pretend an unfullfilling relationship was the best thing that ever happened to me, AND was sent hither and tither as a poster child for why this type of marriage works.

That's not to say it's Priscilla's fault. Not in the least. She's now stuck with a pompous douche for a husband who clearly is trying his best (or not) to tolerate her. And she's stuck. She has no voice in this situation. And, she may be just as tired. Maybe his (possible) rejection of her romantic advances - especially now that they've done their duty and have produced a child - is wearing her down. That can't feel good. I could see her becoming even more meek and submissive under the illusion that she is doing something wrong because of it all.

Or, maybe I'm just spewing. Either way, I see it as a tragic situation. While I feel the worst for Priscilla, I do have a sliver of sympathy for David, too.

[fundiemental]

moreorlessnu, i remember that episode with Anna discussing her miscarriage. It was actually pretty touhing and i could tell it meant a lot to the women she was ministering to.

There's no way to predict how David and Priscilla would handle a miscarriage (and of course i hope they never face that), but based on what i've seen from them, i imagine they'd handle it very differently. Almost blithely. God's will/God is great no matter what!!, etc.

[lilith]

moreorlessnu, i remember that episode with Anna discussing her miscarriage. It was actually pretty touhing and i could tell it meant a lot to the women she was ministering to.

There's no way to predict how David and Priscilla would handle a miscarriage (and of course i hope they never face that), but based on what i've seen from them, i imagine they'd handle it very differently. Almost blithely. God's will/God is great no matter what!!, etc.

I found her testimony at the prison intensely patronising. She was speaking to women who have likely been disadvantaged their entire life, who statistically are likely to have suffered sexual abuse, mental illness and drug abuse and who are separated from their children. And Mrs Duggar, who has been isolated from any real world hardship, living in the house she and her husband were given, living off the proceeds of the business they were given, is saying "I can relate to you! God gives me challenges too. See, he sent me a blessing then took it back! I too know suffering".

[fundiemental]

I found her testimony at the prison intensely patronising. She was speaking to women who have likely been disadvantaged their entire life, who statistically are likely to have suffered sexual abuse, mental illness and drug abuse and who are separated from their children. And Mrs Duggar, who has been isolated from any real world hardship, living in the house she and her husband were given, living off the proceeds of the business they were given, is saying "I can relate to you! God gives me challenges too. See, he sent me a blessing then took it back! I too know suffering".

Miscarriages can happen to any woman regardless of class.

Edited to add: Well, duh, of course they can. What i mean is...i'm sure that most any woman can relate to the heartbreak.

[lilith]

Miscarriages can happen to any woman regardless of class.

Edited to add: Well, duh, of course they can. What i mean is...i'm sure that most any woman can relate to the heartbreak.

I agree, but the pain Anna obviously felt at her miscarriage doesn't mean that she can relate to the horrific lives many women in prison have endured, and its trite of her to compare her miscarriage to their trials as an example of God testing us all.

[gustava]

Secretaries/Administrative Assistance used to be male-only positions in the 19th and early 20th Century. The difference is that for men, secretarial work was considered a stepping stone. They used it as a way to learn the ins and outs of a company before advancing up the corporate ladder. For women, it was a position with almost no hope of advancement. (I recommend "Swimming in the Steno Pool" by Lynn Peril for a cultural history of secretaries.)

Thanks for this info.

[formergothardite]

I agree, but the pain Anna obviously felt at her miscarriage doesn't mean that she can relate to the horrific lives many women in prison have endured, and its trite of her to compare her miscarriage to their trials as an example of God testing us all.

Exactly, a privilaged, sheltered woman having a miscarriage is sad, but nothing compared to the things those women have been through. I didn't feel like those women related at all to her.

[Ex 2x2]

Kinda like when David shared about his pecan thievery with the inmates??

[Dutch_girl]

Exactly, a privilaged, sheltered woman having a miscarriage is sad, but nothing compared to the things those women have been through. I didn't feel like those women related at all to her.

Can anyone tell me which episode that is?