Feminists In Marriage Might As Well Be Single

[debrand]

)

Non-Christian Feminism

No distinction between the roles of husband and wife. They live parallel lives, legally married but functionally single.

I found this on Driscoll's site and it struck me as odd. Does he actually pay attention to what he preaches? Surely, he can't be serious. Do you think that he really believes that most feminist would marry someone just to be 'functionally single." Why get married in the first place?

marshill.com/media/trial/marriage-and-women

[Guest Anonymous]

There's more:

2) Christian Egalitarianism

No distinction between the roles of husband and wife. They also live parallel lives, but often share some unifying, ephemeral elements (e.g. kids, hobbies, church).

So, in the first example (quoted by debrand), the husband and wife don't have any of those 'unifying, ephemeral elements'? They don't have kids, shared hobbies, or church? Wow! The feminist mothers I know are just pretending to have children. That's good to know. Also, are children 'ephemeral'? That seems like a bit of a break from the family-is-everything line.

3) Christian Complementarianism

Husband and wife fulfill distinct and equal roles. They live as one together under God’s authority with unified purpose.

Separate but equal! I feel like a time-traveller.

[Wolfie]

)

I found this on Driscoll's site and it struck me as odd. Does he actually pay attention to what he preaches? Surely, he can't be serious. Do you think that he really believes that most feminist would marry someone just to be 'functionally single." Why get married in the first place?

marshill.com/media/trial/marriage-and-women

Well, it also bothers me because it's not a bad thing to be single either- he's using single as a put down here.

(though I also find this odd, considering I know many marriages where the woman is a feminist and they are not at all functionally single)

[RosyDaisy]

Mark Driscoll, every single time I visit your site, it give me a migraine.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Um no, we just care to make our own distinctions in our own relationships based on our respective strengths and weaknesses rather than who has what chromosomes. If our roles are indistinguishable, who the fuck cares? Cripes, these people have too much time on their hands.

[Minerva]

My partner and I are feminists, we do our equal share of everything, and I am not functionally single, if you know what I mean. *wink wink* *nudge nudge* Seriously, you'd have to work pretty damn hard to have as much sex whilst single as you do in a relationship.

Now, I know this is probably beyond the comprehension of most married fundies, but when you're in a serious relationship of any kind, you share an unbelievably strong bond with your partner and you are closer than you ever imagined you could be with someone. You're in love. People should have relationships because of love, not because the type of labour they're allowed to do needs to match up.

If I were single, I'd be doing one household's worth of chores on top of working enough to support one person. Because I'm in a relationship, I do half a household's worth of chores while working the same number of hours. Also, because my partner and I have divided up the chores based on our likes, dislikes and skills, I never have to do chores I hate. Fuck cleaning washrooms, my partner has a way stronger stomach than I. Having a kid increases the functional difference between being single and in a relationship by a lot. Paying for half a kid's worth of stuff as opposed to paying for a full kid's worth of stuff? That adds up to a lot of money saved.

[emmyfair]

I can't even get my head around any of this. Mark Driscoll, I don't think that's my fault....

[naysayersspeak]

So if sharing responsibilities isn't based on arbitrary gender distinctions it doesn't count? Even for fundie-land, that logic is messed up.

Related: my fundie-lite parents love Driscoll. We had a family lunch the other day, and my father was extolling his virtues. I got a bit angry, and told them why I think he's a terrible and disgusting man. I told Dad I'd send him some links when I got home.

By the time I got home, he'd already found them, and decided he would no longer be recommending Driscoll to people. A small step, but damn it felt good.

[rock_girl]

If you're not a feminist within any relationship (marriage, defacto, whatever) you stand a good chance of ending up a punching bag.

Why do women buy into this rubbish?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Godly wives have a quiet and gentle spirit; they are not silent, but prudent (knowing when and where to speak).

Can you imagine having to know when and where to speak? That's actually a lot to take away from a person: the ability to speak freely. What life can be satisfying like that?

[OohLaLa]

Wtf is this shit? Big-word titles and scholarly-sounding definitions and yet it still makes no sense. But I guess it probably sounds impressive to his little sheep who are are nodding and taking notes unquestioningly, because gosh darn if he doesn't have it all figured out.

[theologyofyourface]

Well, my husband and I are Christians (he's a minister, actually) and we have "distinct and equal roles"-- since he does all the cooking and cleaning and laundry (and will stay home with any children we might have) and I'm the breadwinner and am hopeless at domestic tasks, despite possessing ladybits. See? Distinct and equal, right? :dance:

[salsa]

Can you imagine having to know when and where to speak? That's actually a lot to take away from a person: the ability to speak freely. What life can be satisfying like that?

:clap:

(but oh, no; it's only truly satisfying if you're following "god's" prescribed roles. Everyone else is just deluding themselves, so just put on your best fake J'chelle smile and be happy)

[Closed Womb]

Non Christian Feminism?

Sounds like my husband, who I swear is more of a feminist than I am. He would deny that statement, but when I heard him saying that he hates how men refer to women as "my wife" or "my girlfriend" because (a) they have names and (b) the speaker does not own them, I knew he was a full out feminist.

[Minerva]

Wait, this only applies to non-Christian feminists. As a Christian feminist, I'm not functionally single by Mark Driscoll's standard. Good to know I have his approval.

[CrazyCatLady]

Driscoll makes me mad and also profoundly sad for the women that agree to play by his shitty rules. It must be so lonely to be married to someone who is more your boss than your partner.

[ILoveJellybeans]

They dont seem to see the things that marriage is actually about. Just because a couples relationship doesnt have a dominant man and a submissive woman (or doesnt even need to have both a man and a woman), doesnt mean its like being single. There are many things in marriage that arent about that, that feminists still have-they still love eachother, take eachother out on dates, choose to have children together, and try and make sex enjoyable for both of them, and spend time together as a couple.

I think that fundie women might as well be single-theyre the ones who cook, clean and take care of the children with no help from their husband, and fundie men might as well be single and living in mom's basement, as they have to be looked after, praised and cant cook or clean.

[Rosa]

Yeah, Jellybean, they've really missed the boat while all the rest of us went ahead and made better marriages.

It's always women in those unequal marriages who say things like "I could use a sister-wife!" too, as far as I can tell - not all fundies, but women who do the whole second shift and have husbands who don't help out. So the fundie version of that is they make tight female friends in Bible study or MOMYS or whatever, and then their husbands write blog posts about how the church has gotten "feminized" and tells the women not to put anything above them (or sometimes they say "God" but they mean the husbands) and tries to break them up from their friends, instead of just reaching out and *being* a friend because that's not how the roles work.

[debrand]

Can you imagine having to know when and where to speak? That's actually a lot to take away from a person: the ability to speak freely. What life can be satisfying like that?

The wife is in a catch-22. If she speaks up and tells her husband he is doing something wrong, she is being controlling. However, if something goes wrong and she doesn't say something, she'll be blamed for not speaking up in time. No matter what happens, the woman is screwed.

[MissA]

Wow, this says a *lot* about Mr. Driscoll. Because while I'd agree that "church" and "hobbies" could be ephemeral things that a married egalitarian couple share, he also includes "Children" in that category. Dickweed, children are *the* most permanent commitment to another person you can make.

Also I can't help but notice that there's about a tenth as many commands to men as there are to women. And that he seems to think that if you just repeat that "submission does not mean you are not equal to your husband" enough that the definition of the word will change.

[jenny_islander]

Children are ephemeral because a wife's sole duty is telling all of her male authority figures (especially her husband) that they fart ice cream. Feminist husbands "might as well be single" because they don't have a woman staring up at them with that creepy adoring smile every time they speak. IOW, feminist men don't need reassurance of their manhood every fricking second. Feminist wives "might as well be single" because they don't have a man crowding into their space and leaning over them in order to mansplain every little detail of their lives. IOW, feminist women don't marry braying jackasses like Mark Driscoll.

I wonder if he can even imagine a marriage in which the husband doesn't fatten his ego by devouring his wife!

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I think that fundie women might as well be single-theyre the ones who cook, clean and take care of the children with no help from their husband, and fundie men might as well be single and living in mom's basement, as they have to be looked after, praised and cant cook or clean.

You are exactly right! I don't have any fundie friends but I do have a few non-fundie acquaintances who have husbands who very much like the fundie men in their mindsets, and these women are lonely and unhappy (and I want to scream, "WHY DO YOU KEEP HAVING BABIES WITH THAT ASSHOLE??"). They're exhausted from carrying all of the housework and childcare on their shoulders while the husbands are off doing whatever they want, and they rarely get any kind of "me time," which I think is crucial for all parents.

[YPestis]

I think that fundie women might as well be single-theyre the ones who cook, clean and take care of the children with no help from their husband, and fundie men might as well be single and living in mom's basement, as they have to be looked after, praised and cant cook or clean.

Don't forget taking a jaunt down the Amazon for a bit of male bonding! :roll:

I love how fundies talk about traditional gender roles without learning where they came from. In hunter-gatherer and agrarian societies, men did the heavy lifting (duh). Plus, women had to be near home to breastfeed infants, making it also convenient for them to continue to care for them through young childhood. I would argue that men were more apt to leave the home for jobs and enter into businesses because women were more vulnerable to violence (men being typically bigger and stronger). Hence evolved this patriarchy society where men were at an economic advantage. This had nothing to do with women being more suited for cleaning or cooking. These days, most jobs can be performed by both genders as they require less muscle power and more brain power. Yet, fundies make up this fantasy world where only men can perform jobs outside the home, or jobs that requiring thinking. Only women can cook and clean and wipe butts because it's emasculating to do so.

It's funny that fundies talk about manly their sons are yet they deliberately avoid teaching them how to care for themselves. How manly is it that a single man requires his MOTHER to cook his meals and iron his shirt? How manly is it that nagging him will emasculate him? Or criticising his "leadership" will deflate his ego and make him not want to lead? Do fundies vote for political leaders that are so helpless and thin skinned?

[Lady_M]

So, in the first example (quoted by debrand), the husband and wife don't have any of those 'unifying, ephemeral elements'? They don't have kids, shared hobbies, or church? Wow! The feminist mothers I know are just pretending to have children. That's good to know. Also, are children 'ephemeral'? That seems like a bit of a break from the family-is-everything line.

Won't my husband be surprised to come home tonight and find out that he's actually functionally single according to Mark Driscoll because I'm an evil feminist :lol: !

Because, you know, after nearly 15 years of being together (7 married), we only have a few shared "ephemeral elements"! Riiiiiight...

Normally, Mark Driscoll infuriates me like no one else. This whole thing is so ludicrous though that it's hard to take Driscoll seriously this time...I don't know how anyone in his church can listen to this with a straight face. It's ridiculous. And scary - because people actually DO listen to him.

[emmiedahl]

Do fundies vote for political leaders that are so helpless and thin skinned?

Yes, yes they do. Reference: everything Rove and Romney and any other Republican loser has said over the past week.