Food Budget

[Rosa]

We work a LOT more hours than Europeans, and generally commute longer/farther too. We really, literally, have less free time.

[Black Aliss]

That's not necessarily so. It's actually cheaper per oz. to buy store brand shredded cheese at my local grocery store than it is to buy it in block form. I have no idea why.

Okay, I'll give her a pass on that one, and any other shopping habits that Kelly can justify, as long as she feeds her family well, which she isn't doing right now.

I can see how shredded cheese could be cheaper, if it came the odd pieces left over after cutting block cheese for sale. It just isn't, where I shop.

I still want to be Kelly's titus2 mentor.

[Pretzel]

We work a LOT more hours than Europeans, and generally commute longer/farther too. We really, literally, have less free time.

That can't be generalized as easily but there sure are tendencies, I agree. I didn't mean to generalize, either btw. ;)

[charizbarb]

We work a LOT more hours than Europeans, and generally commute longer/farther too. We really, literally, have less free time.

The cost of living in the US is also much lower than in most of Europe. Surely then it's about priorities and maybe choosing to work fewer hours would be better?

[Clementine]

...and this is why I am definitely not surprised by Josh Duggar's eating habits. I think he eats just because he can. 3-course-rice dinner? Uh uh, not anymore. I am convinced they eat as a form of rebellion and catching up on what they had to miss out on during their childhoods.

.

I too have thought of that. There was a family with three children in my neighbourhood when I grew up and they were so skinny that they looked emaciated and they seemed to be hungry.all.the.time. Every time somebody in the neighbourhood would put the plates out for dinner on the patio behind their house or start the BBQ, they would be there, just hanging around, hoping for a meal. If they were at my place, all they could talk about was food. I can't understand why nobody called the social services.

Anyhoo - when they grew up and started to earn their own money, they seemed to compensate for their starving in childhood because they spent all their money on fast food, chocolate, pastries and candy. (Most other teenagers would spend the extra cash we earned on clothes, records and movie tickets.) All three of them were really overweight when they were 22-25 years old. I have no idea what happened to them after that.

I can't believe how the fundie mothers can brag about who can feed the family on as little money as possible. Is starving your family or feeding them junk food something to be proud about?

[Esther]

It could be The Netherlands too. We do eat sandwiches at breakfast and lunch and veggies/meat/proteines at diner. We take some fruits in between. I don't think that it's a bad diet at all, we get everything we need. I'm actually pleased our children don't get served a warm fat-loaded lunch. I think my homemade-lunchboxes are much more healthy. Today my daughters went to school with an apple for their morning-break and a bottle of water, 2 cheese-sandwiches and some little tomato's for lunch.

Yeah, Belgian here and same thing. When I was little, my diet was something like this:

Breakfast: fresh orange juice, bread with nutella / cereal with milk.

Lunch: Two or three pieces of bread with some slices of cheese or ham, tomato or little carrots, little mandarin and a piece of chocolate for afterward

Dinner: full cooked meal, mostly meat, potatoes and vegetables - for example sausage, potatoes, and peas and carrots

Snacks would be fruit or cookies.

It's not the hippest way to eat, but it worked for me and our obesity rates are pretty low. :)

[Mouser]

The cost of living in the US is also much lower than in most of Europe. Surely then it's about priorities and maybe choosing to work fewer hours would be better?

This is not always possible in the US. Some employers will be unhappy if you request to work fewer hours and may fire you or lay you off in retaliation. Several jobs I've worked in the US, the contract I signed stated that I could be fired without notice for any reason and to work there, I had to accept that. I've worked in the UK as well and in comparison, it is much easier to find cooperative employers in the UK and I assume that applies to other EU countries as well.

[desertvixen]

The cost of living in the US is also much lower than in most of Europe. Surely then it's about priorities and maybe choosing to work fewer hours would be better?

I believe part of the reason cost of living is lower is because we aren't paying as much in taxes...but we also aren't getting the benefits. There's no universal maternity benefits, family leave, daycare can be quite expensive... and the majority of employers aren't family friendly. I'd like to be less busy myself, but my job (military) doesn't really lend itself to less hours. Plus in the current economic climate, I think everyone who has a job is trying to make sure they hang on to it, and I'm sure there are employers exploiting that one.

[Guest Anonymous]

The cost of living in the US is also much lower than in most of Europe. Surely then it's about priorities and maybe choosing to work fewer hours would be better?

My significant other works a minimum of 52 hours a week, absolutely required to keep his job, which he must have if we want to have a place to live and health insurance. More people that I know than not are in the same boat.

A 40 hour a week minimum wage job does not provide enough money to secure a two bedroom apartment pretty much anywhere in the United States. If you're a single parent without a professional job or a college degree, you are working at least two jobs around where I live. Even if you do have a college degree right now you may still be working for Starbucks or Target because health insurance is a must and if you don't get it through your job then odds are it's totally out of reach. No health insurance means you're screwed.

"Choosing to work fewer hours" is laughable for most of us.

[Esther]

I lived in the US for two years and I was really shocked by the crazy hours people worked - and by the amount of people who worked two or three jobs. It's pretty rare in Belgium to find someone working more than one job, let alone three. Most people also work 40 hour weeks, even if, obviously, depending on the job, they do take some work home.

It's really sad that people have to work so damn much just to put food on the table. I definitely believe it's not a choice and that "choosing to work fewer hours" in many cases just isn't feasible.

[Esther]

Also, I think many Europeans (myself included) really underestimate the HUGE PRESSURE brought about by the fact that, in the US, health insurance is not something you just have by default.

In Europe, no matter what happens, even if you lose your job, even if you lose all your money, you always know that if you get sick, you can go see a doctor free of charge and nobody can take that away from you. Your kids, your partner, your elderly relatives - no matter what, at least their health issues will be covered. Living without that would be a nightmare for me. I had really crappy health insurance through my school in the US, and it literally freaked me out that even for relatively small problems, I would be charged a sizable copay. I can't imagine living my life knowing that if anything happens, I'm on my own, because my job doesn't offer health insurance and I can't afford it by myself.

[Mouser]

Also, I think many Europeans (myself included) really underestimate the HUGE PRESSURE brought about by the fact that, in the US, health insurance is not something you just have by default.

In Europe, no matter what happens, even if you lose your job, even if you lose all your money, you always know that if you get sick, you can go see a doctor free of charge and nobody can take that away from you. Your kids, your partner, your elderly relatives - no matter what, at least their health issues will be covered. Living without that would be a nightmare for me. I had really crappy health insurance through my school in the US, and it literally freaked me out that even for relatively small problems, I would be charged a sizable copay. I can't imagine living my life knowing that if anything happens, I'm on my own, because my job doesn't offer health insurance and I can't afford it by myself.

QFT. The first thing I did when I moved to the UK was go to the clinic to get my free copper IUD (too expensive to consider in the US). I couldn't go back to living in a world where if I was even moderately ill I might have to choose between medicine and paying bills.

[desertvixen]

Also, I think many Europeans (myself included) really underestimate the HUGE PRESSURE brought about by the fact that, in the US, health insurance is not something you just have by default.

This. I have to admit that health coverage played a big role in deciding to go all the way to retirement in the Army. (That and the fact that we actually do get some paid maternity leave.) Even for the people who have health insurance, though, accessing their health care can be a huge issue.

[ElphabaGalinda]

QFT. The first thing I did when I moved to the UK was go to the clinic to get my free copper IUD (too expensive to consider in the US). I couldn't go back to living in a world where if I was even moderately ill I might have to choose between medicine and paying bills.

As a Canadian, I often forget about that/under estimate it too. Always having known that no matter what happens in my life I can just go to the doctor free of charge, I can't imagine worrying about having to pay for the doctor. If my health was something I had to budget for, it would definitely make a lot of financial choices differently, and probably have to work more. I can't fathom having to choose between going to a doctor or paying rent, for example, and I think that's a horrible choice to have to make. It seems like it would be such a big expense too.

[Esther]

As a Canadian, I often forget about that/under estimate it too. Always having known that no matter what happens in my life I can just go to the doctor free of charge, I can't imagine worrying about having to pay for the doctor. If my health was something I had to budget for, it would definitely make a lot of financial choices differently, and probably have to work more. I can't fathom having to choose between going to a doctor or paying rent, for example, and I think that's a horrible choice to have to make. It seems like it would be such a big expense too.

This, exactly. Before I went to the US, I'd never even really thought about medical care being something some people actually have to pay for, and if they can't, tough luck. During my two years there, I saw friends of mine unable to go see a doctor, being cheated by their insurance companies, being in pain because they just couldn't afford the care they needed... It's tragic and really scary somehow. It drove the point home for me. That would be, to me, a big reason never to move to the US again. I cannot handle that level of uncertainty.

[Wolfie]

I'm not a monthly shopper but I do buy a lot of almost everything at once because I hate shopping. I freeze milk because my boys drink several gallons a week and I refuse to go to the store for just milk; no one has ever complained. I don't drink milk, don't like the taste, and my doctor calls it "cow mucus".

I think I'd start going to another doctor if they called it that. Seriously not professional.

I tend to drink whole milk and it doesn't seem to freeze well, it gets a funny texture.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

Also, I think many Europeans (myself included) really underestimate the HUGE PRESSURE brought about by the fact that, in the US, health insurance is not something you just have by default.

In Europe, no matter what happens, even if you lose your job, even if you lose all your money, you always know that if you get sick, you can go see a doctor free of charge and nobody can take that away from you. Your kids, your partner, your elderly relatives - no matter what, at least their health issues will be covered. Living without that would be a nightmare for me. I had really crappy health insurance through my school in the US, and it literally freaked me out that even for relatively small problems, I would be charged a sizable copay. I can't imagine living my life knowing that if anything happens, I'm on my own, because my job doesn't offer health insurance and I can't afford it by myself.

Absolutely! Whenever friends talk about moving to the US because they liked their vacation there so much, I tell them to think long and hard about it. No more minimum of 5 weeks paid vacation, staying home if you're sick and still getting paid, going to the doctor when you're sick and not having to worry about medical bills. Most Europeans forget that living there is not the same as going to Florida for a 2-week vacation.

[Wolfie]

This tells me she's too lazy to buy a block of cheese and grate it--she's paying almost twice as much per pound to buy the shredded stuff.

Well, around here the shredded stuff is about the same price as the block stuff. I think that they shred the stuff leftover after trimming the blocks, so I'll give her a break on this one. (that being said that I don't live in the same area as her, so I don't know the prices there.)

[Wolfie]

It could be Norway or Denmark. We eat a lot of bread in Scandinavia and in Norway and Denmark they usually have some kind of sandwich for lunch. They don't serve school lunches in Norway, even though it's a very rich country, so parents have to send a lunch box to school, usually with sandwiches. (No wonder they are so skinny in Norway.)

The Danish sandwiches that are served at lunch are more rich in protein though. I ordered a classic Danish "sandwich plate" when we were in Denmark a few weeks ago and got three open sandwiches with thin dark sourdough bread: one with a hamburger and mayonnaise salad, one with smoked salmon and sour cream and one with pickled herring and a hard boiled egg. It was really filling and a lot more protein than I am used to having for lunch.

But a sandwich isn't just "bread." It's actually got other things with it. So unless it's a mistranslation, it seems like a poverty diet.

[Esther]

But a sandwich isn't just "bread." It's actually got other things with it. So unless it's a mistranslation, it seems like a poverty diet.

In Europe, a "sandwich" often tends to be two slices of bread with some butter and a slice of cheese in between. We don't generally put much more on bread here - at least not where I'm from. You'll have a cheese slice, or a ham slice, or nutella or jam or something. No vegetables or egg, mostly.

ETA: Clarification because I felt what I just typed sounded dumb. :lol: I know that technically, two slices of bread plus one slice of cheese makes a sandwich. However, when I say "sandwich", I tend to think of two slices of bread with cheese, ham, lettuce, tomato, carrots, egg, mayonaise - you know, something more substantial than just bread with one other thing. I just wanted to clarify that in at least part of Europe, the sandwiches we eat for lunch are very, very basic.

[Wolfie]

In Europe, a "sandwich" often tends to be two slices of bread with some butter and a slice of cheese in between. We don't generally put much more on bread here - at least not where I'm from. You'll have a cheese slice, or a ham slice, or nutella or jam or something. No vegetables or egg, mostly.

ETA: Clarification because I felt what I just typed sounded dumb. :lol: I know that technically, two slices of bread plus one slice of cheese makes a sandwich. However, when I say "sandwich", I tend to think of two slices of bread with cheese, ham, lettuce, tomato, carrots, egg, mayonaise - you know, something more substantial than just bread with one other thing. I just wanted to clarify that in at least part of Europe, the sandwiches we eat for lunch are very, very basic.

In the US they can be that simple too- as a child my favorite lunch sandwich was two slices of bread, with mayo and cheese. A peanut butter sandwich (sometimes with honey) came a close second. I still sometimes take peanut butter sandwiches to work for lunch. But I always had something else, maybe some carrot sticks, or some sunflower seeds, or something else, and some juice. Not just "bread."

[Esther]

In the US they can be that simple too- as a child my favorite lunch sandwich was two slices of bread, with mayo and cheese. A peanut butter sandwich (sometimes with honey) came a close second. I still sometimes take peanut butter sandwiches to work for lunch. But I always had something else, maybe some carrot sticks, or some sunflower seeds, or something else, and some juice. Not just "bread."

Right, I get that. I usually had bread with cheese and then either carrot sticks or a tomato. Having just bread would be odd. I'm just thinking/hoping that she meant "a bread-based meal" instead of just plain bread.

[CrazySister]

I want to weigh in on the hours worked per week subject but figured I'd cut out the quote tree.

I work 55+ hours a week. I have ZERO benefits. 55 hours pays my bills but ONLY if I don't get sick. When I say I have no benefits, I don't get paid if I don't work and I have no health insurance whatsoever, and because I'm considered domestic help I'm not eligible for FEMLA. So if I get sick, not only do I lose every cent I would've made that day, I also have to pay to see the doctor (usually a self-pay "discount" but not all that helpful - still well over $100 just or the visit) plus full price for any prescriptions. I get no discount on prescriptions for being self-pay. If I get sick and happen to have the money to see a doctor, I'm easily out $400 between doctor, any tests, and meds.

[Muriel]

Right, I get that. I usually had bread with cheese and then either carrot sticks or a tomato. Having just bread would be odd. I'm just thinking/hoping that she meant "a bread-based meal" instead of just plain bread.

This "Marie-Louise" woman doesn't live in France, I guess, even if her name sounds very French...

Here we almost have a hot lunch. The children eat at school for the most part, but lunch-box are unknown, they eat at the school "cantine". The children with SAHM can go home for lunch, but not to eat sandwiches !

Same with adults, either you eat at your work "cantine" or if you are lucky to live close enough you go home for lunch, bringing a lunch-box is not the norm.

[Esther]

Ah, that's interesting, here in Belgium - like in the Netherlands, I guess - schools don't generally offer hot meals, or if they do, most kids still bring their lunch box to school.