Food Budget

[starfish]

One of the things that bugged me about the Money Saving Mom blog was about how little food they actually seemed to eat. I think I even commented on it once. Removing big fat me, and my food issues, the amounts still were so small my 3 very thin, very active boys and my very hardworking husband would have been left feeling very hungry. I couldn't figure it out.

I can see how snacking could get out of hand, exponentially so with many kids. But it does seem like maybe planning for snacks and designating "snack only" food could help with that issue, rather than just locking down the kitchen?

Anyway, at this point, I feel like I'm doing good with $600/mo for the 5 of us (baby is still nursing, so I don't count her in that tally). i don't read budget blogs and grocery savings posts because they depress me. And because we don't really thrive on beans and rice (tried that). Even shopping at a discount store, the prices have gone up noticably in the last couple of years. Doubling and tripling. :(

ITA about the MSM. She watches every morsel that goes in those kids' mouths. She says one of the kids gives her problems, and I'm sure it's the little boy acting up because he's SO HUNGRY. I think she's obsessed with them getting fat.

It's a control issue for the fundie moms. It is the ONLY area in their lives where they can be the boss, and they lord over the dinner table like the are Latin American dictators. Hannah Overton, the fundie convicted of murdering her adopted son, is a good example of this. Larry and Carrie Williams, who murdered their adopted child from Ethopia, are another.

Kids need to eat.

[kitkat]

My husband works for the local uni, and gets 6 weeks off a year, and great medical coverage. Which completely saved us when he got really sick and almost died a couple years ago. We are very, very fortunate to have that kind of coverage and benefits. On the other hand, part of the reason why the benefits are so good is because the pay is at least 20K lower than what he'd be earning at a private company. Basically, we're trading money for good benefits and job security.

[JesusFightClub]

Hey, come on now. There's no need to make others feel bad about how they live. Just because someone had the fortune of good benefits doesn't mean they lived an easy life, or that they live in a bubble. Plus, poor people do not automatically incur a moral high ground, nor should well off feel people feel guilty for what they have. We should focus on finding solutions to help those at the bottom while educating others on the real need we still have in this country. Nothing productive ever comes from fanning the flames of class resentment. ;)

I dunno about that...;)

Setting fanning flames aside for a moment, that's kind of dangerous territory. Morals aren't the only thing driving people who want to see major changes in the way society is run. To imply that it all comes down to leftists believing one class is morally superior to the other is an old conservative trick. It means they can call anyone who doesn't agree with their solutions a "bleeding heart liberal" and say "they just don't understasidend the practicalities".

[emmiedahl]

It may have been true then, but it's not true now. http://www.epi.org/publication/pm114/

Actually, it is. http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

[dirtyhippiegirl]

I have 2 weeks pd vacation a year, several yearly pd bonuses, a small profit sharing plan (no 401K), and Kaiser HMO insurance which costs me about $250/ mo. I work for the most employee-centric company that I've ever worked for and I'm grateful, but it took me until 3 years ago to get there. The most obsurd thing about it is that I have a Bachelors degree in Criminal Justice, yet going to school for 3 months to get my CNA license is how I got this job. My CJ degree is worth about $12 an hour around here, and all of the cities, counties, and the state are all on pay freezes so no one is getting pay raises or even cost of living adjustments.

I love my job and the flexibility it gives me to also stay home and care for my son, but I am truly frightened about the next few years; I work for a home health agency mostly with pediatric and young adult patients, 80% of which are on medicare and medicade. They have been making cuts to both programs every year, and if benefits are cut any further we may have hiring freezes and loss of benefits. Mostly I fear for my patients (and my son) who will loose crucial services if more drastic cuts are made.

Edited because my sentence didn't make sense.....

!!

I have to ask, do you do private duty or make home health visits? Are you salaried? I did private duty nursing for a small-ish agency in my area (but was on par with the bigger agencies like maxim r/t bennies, pay, etc) and we had no paid time off. No sick leave. Certainly no paid vacation. Health insurance plan was WalMart-ish at best. I was making 1/3 of what I knew Medicaid reimbursed the company for my care.

I liked PD for the reasons that you like home health as well - but it just wasn't sustainable with the poor pay and basically no benefits. On top of contracts and hours getting slashed.

[YPestis]

I dunno about that...;)

Setting fanning flames aside for a moment, that's kind of dangerous territory. Morals aren't the only thing driving people who want to see major changes in the way society is run. To imply that it all comes down to leftists believing one class is morally superior to the other is an old conservative trick. It means they can call anyone who doesn't agree with their solutions a "bleeding heart liberal" and say "they just don't understasidend the practicalities".

Well, I was replying to a poster who, I thought, was unduly harsh of another poster. That post talked about the idea of "unexamined privilege" which I disagreed with. I don't think if someone was better off and never knew poor people personally that they are ignorant or need to be told off for it. I learn many things by reading of them. I dont meet every person with a sad story...does that mean i have some privilege complex? :shock:

I also don't think anyone should feel guilty about being financially fortunate.. I may have "got mine", that doesn't mean Im ignorant of need elsewhere. I've seen patients in country hospitals and free clinics and I'm very aware of the situation. My husband and I will probably be fine financially. That doesn't mean we ignore the dire need in this country or elsewhere. It also doesn't mean I had a easy life and was untouched by poverty. I hope no one looks at our household and makes assumption of our ignorance of poverty based on our lifestyle. I don't need to examine my "privilege" to know there are people in need. And if I do need correction on my views, I certainly hope it will be with patience and not exasperation. :oops:

EDIT: I apologize if I sound teed off. My life is not without its stress right now. :|

[Esther]

I'm really glad to hear that not everyone has it so bad in terms of healthcare, but I'm horrified to know that some/most people do, nonetheless. I think that always kind of amused my American friends while I lived in the US - to them, the idea of having coverage denied, the idea of having to wait to get a certain surgery because they couldn't afford it, the idea of paying off medical costs for years, sucked, but it wasn't particularly shocking anymore. I was always just about ready to climb the barricades when I heard something like that. It's awful. It's scandalous. And it shouldn't be happening in what is often touted as the richest country in the world.

Socialized healthcare may not be perfect - though, as far as I am concerned, it might as well be, because I honestly, despite my relatively messy medical history, have never had a thing to complain about - but it is a hell of a lot better than what's going on in the US right now. I wish those people (not on here, in general) who kept nitpicking about certain healthcare systems would understand that. It is the better option. Take it from a girl - with really crazy eyes and an interesting blood clotting issue - from a working class background in a typical western European country.

I hope this mess gets sorted out.

[rock_girl]

I'm another one with really crazy eyes, well, optic nerves and am similarly grateful for socialised medicine. I choose to go private for my treatment but am not kidding myself into thinking that I could afford the fantastic insurance I have now if our system was like that of the US. Between the debilitating effects of the condition when it goes haywire and the depression associated with having a chronic illness, I'd probably be working for insurance and to pay off previous medical bills rather than enjoying a second bite at the academic apple. Lurking on condition-specific boards it's pretty obvious that those in the US have a rough time dealing with this illness because insurance companies are stingy when it comes to preventative medicine. Here I have to wait for MRIs if I choose the public system but the wait is never more than six weeks and I don't have to go through layers of admin to to get a scan; the specialist writes up the order, their staff send it downstairs and 20 minutes later I've an appointment. If it's an emergency I'm at the ED and in for scans quicker than you can say "permanent and irreversible blindness is fantastic".

Say what you will about our system (and I've a lot to say about how much I hate mixed wards), but I'd rather be chronically ill here than the US.

[Esther]

I'm another one with really crazy eyes, well, optic nerves and am similarly grateful for socialised medicine. I choose to go private for my treatment but am not kidding myself into thinking that I could afford the fantastic insurance I have now if our system was like that of the US. Between the debilitating effects of the condition when it goes haywire and the depression associated with having a chronic illness, I'd probably be working for insurance and to pay off previous medical bills rather than enjoying a second bite at the academic apple. Lurking on condition-specific boards it's pretty obvious that those in the US have a rough time dealing with this illness because insurance companies are stingy when it comes to preventative medicine. Here I have to wait for MRIs if I choose the public system but the wait is never more than six weeks and I don't have to go through layers of admin to to get a scan; the specialist writes up the order, their staff send it downstairs and 20 minutes later I've an appointment. If it's an emergency I'm at the ED and in for scans quicker than you can say "permanent and irreversible blindness is fantastic".

Say what you will about our system (and I've a lot to say about how much I hate mixed wards), but I'd rather be chronically ill here than the US.

Exactly. I have a really rare type of ocular albinism - freaking out doctors since 1988! - and a blood clotting disorder because of that, and I really cannot complain about the way my country's (public) healthcare system has treated me. I've never paid a dime for the numerous tests I undergo on a yearly basis - more often when I was a small child - and the doctors have been great, respectful professionals who do not treat me like a number. I also need two different types of glasses and most of the cost of those has been covered, too. My brother, who has the same condition because we really won the genetic lottery, even has various additional visual aids, such as a special camera he can use to take snapshots of the blackboard at his university, completely covered by our insurance.

I too know people with my condition(s) in the United States, and their life is certainly harder. Some of them didn't even get diagnosed until very late because they or their parents could not afford the specialized care necessary to deal with a condition like this.

[BlueChair]

Not everyone in the US has it terribly. Some have affordable health insurance with very low co-pays and six weeks paid vacation. One of my relatives has insurance 100% paid by the employer and another it's 80% employer paid. Mine is 75% employer paid premiums. Although for many people it is a major problem. I'm not denying that, but wanted people to know it isn't everyone.

In my honest opinion, I think it's sad that we've come to consider 80% employer coverage "good" benefits. I was a perfectly healthy 25-year-old when out of nowhere I went into kidney failure. When it comes to serious illness, 20% is a shit ton of money. I had 80% coverage and was on the verge of bankruptcy after only a few months of illness. My monthly medical bills were twice the amount of my take home pay. I then moved to a country with socialized medicine for graduate school and received excellent health care, and only had to pay a maximum of about $200 a year. In one country, my illness chronic illness can bankrupt me, in another it barely makes a dent in my budget. There is something very wrong with this picture.

[rock_girl]

Exactly. I have a really rare type of ocular albinism - freaking out doctors since 1988! - and a blood clotting disorder because of that, and I really cannot complain about the way my country's (public) healthcare system has treated me. I've never paid a dime for the numerous tests I undergo on a yearly basis - more often when I was a small child - and the doctors have been great, respectful professionals who do not treat me like a number. I also need two different types of glasses and most of the cost of those has been covered, too. My brother, who has the same condition because we really won the genetic lottery, even has various additional visual aids, such as a special camera he can use to take snapshots of the blackboard at his university, completely covered by our insurance.

I too know people with my condition(s) in the United States, and their life is certainly harder. Some of them didn't even get diagnosed until very late because they or their parents could not afford the specialized care necessary to deal with a condition like this.

How can anyone live like that? I can't imagine how it would feel to have a child diagnosed with a treatable disease that I just couldn't afford to make better. My experience with doctors in the public system has been similar to yours - they're fantastic, skilled, caring people who go out of their way to make an often stressful time as comfortable as possible. The nurses are equally as motivated. Sure, you don't get plush accommodation with a view of the city skyline and lovingly prepared quinoa salads for lunch. Procedures generally take place in rooms whose walls are the same hideous shade of grey as the worn linoleum. But good care is more than fancy waiting areas and wood panelled reception rooms. And the prescriptions! When I hear about fellow sufferers rationing the pills that (sort of) keep them out of the ED and help preserve what's left of their vision I want to yell at something.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I have to ask, do you do private duty or make home health visits? Are you salaried? I did private duty nursing for a small-ish agency in my area (but was on par with the bigger agencies like maxim r/t bennies, pay, etc) and we had no paid time off. No sick leave. Certainly no paid vacation. Health insurance plan was WalMart-ish at best. I was making 1/3 of what I knew Medicaid reimbursed the company for my care.

I liked PD for the reasons that you like home health as well - but it just wasn't sustainable with the poor pay and basically no benefits. On top of contracts and hours getting slashed.

I am a CNA and do home health visits, and work hourly. We work specifically with disabled/special needs and I work primarily with kids and young adults. I think my agency is unique in that our owner turns quite a a lot of the profits back into the company and to us instead of his own pocket. He's so concerned about this population sometimes I don't think he cares about his own profits at all.

Most of the CNA's in this area who work in facilities and hospitals make $8-$10 an hour with crappy benefits. I know how lucky I am to make the wage and benefits I do at this kind of a job,

[Deleted03]

That is what I was thinking too. My family on one side is from the border between Eastern and Western Europe, and while breakfast was never big, usually the noon meal was the biggest one of the day, then just a small supper.

Bread for breakfast is actually a pretty standard french breakfast (no most people don't eat pastries every morning, that might be a week end ritual, but certainly not a week long thing). In France too, most often people would it the filling meal for lunch rather than for dinner. Although eating bread is pretty much assured at every meal, French rarely eat bread by itself (I remember my grandma asking why I eat dry bread and if I want butter, or chocolate for the afternoon snack with it). They would eat charcuterie with it like pâtés, rillettes, stuff!

[Coconut Flan]

When I said 80% or 75% employer paid I was talking of the insurance premiums, not the coverage. Most of the people I was talking about are in PPOs with a $10 or $20 co-pay per office visit. There is also an annual out-of-pocket cap of $2,000 or $2,500.

[Olive Plant]

I was just thinking about food budgets and large families this evening. I went to Winco (epic bulk section, reputation for being cheap) this evening where I saw a couple of fundie families. Anyways, I got stuck behind one of them in the check out. I was being nosy and checking out their grocery cart: family sized cans of cream of whatever soups, bulk cereals, a huge bag of potatoes, five pound tubes of ground beef, and a lot of stuff from the bulk section. Their cart was crammed full. No fresh or frozen fruit or vegetables. Their total was over $300. I wish I'd asked them how often they shopped for that much food- but they kept to themselves.

And regarding keeping food from my son, I don't. If he's hungry, he gets food. I will make him wait like half an hour for dinner or something (if it's longer than that, he gets a raw vegetable plate w/dip to snack on.) but I will never lock up the cabinets and prevent him from eating.

We shop once a week, with a top-up shopping trip (milk, fruit & vegetables) if we need it.

I have a habit of trying to guess things about people based on their shopping carts. I am seriously the cheapest person I know when it comes to food, having come out of a background like this, or at least I used to be. If you eat nothing but bulk oatmeal, powdered milk, potatoes, cheap pasta and bulk beans and rice, and dented canned goods, and go to bed hungry half the time, you can get your food budget to less than a dollar a day. Or that's how it used to be 10 years ago... but you won't be healthy or even that thin. Currently, for 1 person I spend about $100 a month, and I'm small, and no longer growing. My boyfriend jokes that I can get full on one carrot. I eat a pretty balanced diet, make my own bread, do a lot of crock pot meals (still including potatoes/beans and rice) and if I spent any less it would be bad for me. I buy a lot of stuff just before it's expired, so it's marked down, especially meat. I know the cheap places to shop, too.

[JinjaNinja]

Thanks for the info; I'm going to have to look into this!

Me too. Thanks!

[OkToBeTakei]

I have a habit of trying to guess things about people based on their shopping carts. I am seriously the cheapest person I know when it comes to food, having come out of a background like this, or at least I used to be. If you eat nothing but bulk oatmeal, powdered milk, potatoes, cheap pasta and bulk beans and rice, and dented canned goods, and go to bed hungry half the time, you can get your food budget to less than a dollar a day. Or that's how it used to be 10 years ago... but you won't be healthy or even that thin. Currently, for 1 person I spend about $100 a month, and I'm small, and no longer growing. My boyfriend jokes that I can get full on one carrot. I eat a pretty balanced diet, make my own bread, do a lot of crock pot meals (still including potatoes/beans and rice) and if I spent any less it would be bad for me. I buy a lot of stuff just before it's expired, so it's marked down, especially meat. I know the cheap places to shop, too.

This thread just pinged because I clicked the active posts. It seems a long term discussion.

I think as this point is laboured SO much. I do not care that GOD or the bible thinks as the fundies do that I should have all those ARROWS ..because they are going to be EFF all use unless they are well fed.

It is boring. Very boring. They can't afford. They then try to justify it.

At the end of the day. My one ARROW wants to be a doctor...she eats a healthy varied diet. It is ironic should her desires come true..and we love our food spend time and gasp money, although love a bargain..that she may well treat the ARROWS who are supposedly better than her. Because you know..well.

[yetanothermeg]

Sadly, I've had more than a few fundie friends who were THRILLED that their bio-kids were technically failure to thrive and just avoided doctors to no one noticed it. FTT meant less food and skinny kids. It was something to strive for and not a medical emergency.

This sickens me. From September to May of the last year my little guy was plummeting on the growth chart. I took him to every specialist and had every test done to find out what could be causing this problem. He was refered to early intervention for feeding therapy by his ped. During this time he was chronically sick with ear infections. FINALLY in May he had ear tubes put in and from that point on he has been steadily ganing weight. He is now solidly 10th percentile and I am thrilled, even though he was 50th percentile for weight at birth and his first three months of life. This process taught me that low weight gain could be an indicator of any number of serious medical conditions. I can't imagine being HAPPY that a child has a medical condition.

The more I look into the people we snark on, the more convinced I am that most of them have personality disorders or at the very least anxiety disorders (that they keep in check by strictly controlling their enviornments ie their kids).

[meda]

When I said 80% or 75% employer paid I was talking of the insurance premiums, not the coverage. Most of the people I was talking about are in PPOs with a $10 or $20 co-pay per office visit. There is also an annual out-of-pocket cap of $2,000 or $2,500.

I think when you consistently drop in with comments like this it's not unreasonable for people to comment on your unexamined privilege. Do you interact with anyone who does not have Cadillac insurance? For many people 80/20 means exactly that...20% of the costs are born by the patient.

You and the people you know have good benefits, which is great. Most people in this country do not enjoy the sort of benefits that you do. Knowing this, why do you need to be such an apologist for the U.S. healthcare system?

[snarkbillie]

I just got back from the store. Family of 4, 1 week, 3 meals a day, 1 snack per day = $295.

[yetanothermeg]

I just got back from the store. Family of 4, 1 week, 3 meals a day, 1 snack per day = $295.

We spend about this much and my husband eats all his lunches out. I know we could trim it down if I pulled out The Less is More Cookbook, but the headship is not big on lentils and we aren't hurting for money at the moment. If he DID like lentils, I could rock his world with healthy cheap meals tho....

[moreorlessnu]

Me too. Thanks!

Can I also add a plug for Costco.com? You can use their pharmacy mail service even if you are not a Costco member.

The mail order pharmacy is here: http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePa ... o=11597436

Drug pricing information is here: http://www.costco.com/Pharmacy/DrugInformation.aspx?p=1. The medication is shipped free if you can wait 10 to 14 days for delivery.

[bellicosebroad]

Those monthly shoppers may buy fresh fruit and veg to last a week, but then it's probably frozen, jarred, or canned after that.

When I lived alone I shopped just once a month, sometimes even a bit less. I bought cabbage, carrots, onions and celery for fresh veggies and apples and oranges for fresh fruit, and then frozen broccoli and cauliflower. I can't imagine doing that if you've kids, but it's not hard at all to shop just once a month if you're an adult and have a big enough fridge and freezer to store everything.

[Coconut Flan]

I was responding to someone who responded to one of my comments and we had not communicated clearly. I was clarifying.

Some people are making assumptions based on extremely incomplete data.

[emmiedahl]

I gave my data. Only half of American workers have any health insurance available at their jobs and most have to pay the premium or part of it--for a family, that is around 15K a year. How nice that you know people with good insurance. You keep popping in with this information and I am not sure if you want us to give you a pat on the back for being so lucky or what.