Food Budget

[OkToBeTakei]

I gave my data. Only half of American workers have any health insurance available at their jobs and most have to pay the premium or part of it--for a family, that is around 15K a year. How nice that you know people with good insurance. You keep popping in with this information and I am not sure if you want us to give you a pat on the back for being so lucky or what.

Ouchie I thought it was about food. My lifestyle would decrease in a huge way without the NHS. Was that the data thing? If so apologies.

[snarkbillie]

We spend about this much and my husband eats all his lunches out. I know we could trim it down if I pulled out The Less is More Cookbook, but the headship is not big on lentils and we aren't hurting for money at the moment. If he DID like lentils, I could rock his world with healthy cheap meals tho....

We probably could trim but it would be less healthy. I could feed all of us Ramen for every meal way cheaper, but I refuse to do that to my kids.

[bananacat]

Privilege exists. We all have it, including myself. It's neither presumptuous nor "harsh" to point it out. It is common for many progressives to get offended when anyone dares to suggest that they're not perfect, but that isn't my fault. There's no nice way to point out unexamined privilege. This is basic Progressivism 101 stuff.

[B5SnowDog]

My husband and I average $80 a week, including paper goods. I base our menu around what's on sale and we do a lot of cooking from scratch.

[OkToBeTakei]

Privilege exists. We all have it, including myself. It's neither presumptuous nor "harsh" to point it out. It is common for many progressives to get offended when anyone dares to suggest that they're not perfect, but that isn't my fault. There's no nice way to point out unexamined privilege. This is basic Progressivism 101 stuff.

I have it. I have spent years examining it.

It exists and no matter what I say somebody will be offended. I also accept that. Because it is learning.

This though is about food. I do not think it should be about privilege, but it is. Tell a fundie quiver person about that. They are so wrapped up with their 'ideal' they do not care about our socialist ideals on privilege, never mind nutrition.

I may be well wrong..but I think they would have no idea or care what I mean about the term 'Privilege'

[dawbs]

Privilege exists. We all have it, including myself. It's neither presumptuous nor "harsh" to point it out. It is common for many progressives to get offended when anyone dares to suggest that they're not perfect, but that isn't my fault. There's no nice way to point out unexamined privilege. This is basic Progressivism 101 stuff.

No skin off my nose, but I raised an eyebrow and would have bristled if I had been the target of the assumption that the privilege was unexamined.

I have, in spite of some of my grousing about education unions being busted and my crappy new contract, very decent benefits. A lot of the people I know do too--my husband has finally gotten benefits for the first time since I met him (so almost 15 years), which is awesome. That's privilege--and I'm quite aware. Having privilege and saying that one has privilege doesn't mean it's unexamined.

I'm not generally offended by people pointing out my privileges--I'm aware of it, I'm grateful for what I've got and I'm working on trying to know more about the world and the people in it. I probably wouldn't take it as well to be told I have unexamined privilege because there's an element of "fuck you, you don't know what I do, what I know, or how much 'examining' I do" that would be my kneejerk reaction.

[emmiedahl]

Ouchie I thought it was about food. My lifestyle would decrease in a huge way without the NHS. Was that the data thing? If so apologies.

This is what I get for not quoting. I was responding to the comment immediately before mine, the one saying we were basing our impressions of American health care on incomplete data. It was not directed at anything you wrote, but to another poster.

[OkToBeTakei]

This is what I get for not quoting. I was responding to the comment immediately before mine, the one saying we were basing our impressions of American health care on incomplete data. It was not directed at anything you wrote, but to another poster.

Ah ok. that word privilege is bandied round though.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

We average about $600 a month for a family of 3! Jeez, I can't imagine feeding 4x the people on that amount. Granted, that does include things like toilet paper and dog food. And, you know, fresh and healthy items.

I want socialized healthcare in the US so badly I could cry. We have sort of decent coverage, I guess, but even so, we don't go to the doctor unless we really desperately need to, aside from the kid's well-visits and whatnot. It costs about $75+ out of pocket for a doctor's visit and then whatever the scripts are. I can remember having to pour straight cortisone liquid in my ears -which felt like gasoline + a lit match- to deal with the eczema in them because I simply couldn't afford to keep buying the good drops that worked and didn't hurt. $3 vs. $65 is a no-brainer when you have a family to feed (this was also when we made substantially less money than we do now, somewhere in the lowest depths of middle class) and the cheaper drops did not fucking work. Going to the dermatologist and paying that co-pay was bad enough. We maxed out our dental care on our daughter alone this year, so I'm hoping like hell no emergencies crop up in the next few months. I had to pay for her last cleaning out of pocket because insurance only pays for it once a year whether you've maxed out or not, and she goes every 6 months. An emergency, medical or dental, may not completely cripple us like it would have in the years past, but it would still hurt. Badly. And we are solid middle class now and do not live above our means. So it makes me literally sick to my stomach when people have that "I got mine" mentality. The majority of this country do not have theirs.

[OkToBeTakei]

We average about $600 a month for a family of 3! Jeez, I can't imagine feeding 4x the people on that amount. Granted, that does include things like toilet paper and dog food. And, you know, fresh and healthy items.

I want socialized healthcare in the US so badly I could cry. We have sort of decent coverage, I guess, but even so, we don't go to the doctor unless we really desperately need to, aside from the kid's well-visits and whatnot. It costs about $75+ out of pocket for a doctor's visit and then whatever the scripts are. I can remember having to pour straight cortisone liquid in my ears -which felt like gasoline + a lit match- to deal with the eczema in them because I simply couldn't afford to keep buying the good drops that worked and didn't hurt. $3 vs. $65 is a no-brainer when you have a family to feed (this was also when we made substantially less money than we do now, somewhere in the lowest depths of middle class) and the cheaper drops did not fucking work. Going to the dermatologist and paying that co-pay was bad enough. We maxed out our dental care on our daughter alone this year, so I'm hoping like hell no emergencies crop up in the next few months. I had to pay for her last cleaning out of pocket because insurance only pays for it once a year whether you've maxed out or not, and she goes every 6 months. An emergency, medical or dental, may not completely cripple us like it would have in the years past, but it would still hurt. Badly. And we are solid middle class now and do not live above our means. So it makes me literally sick to my stomach when people have that "I got mine" mentality. The majority of this country do not have theirs.

WHY WHY WHY do you not have healthcare. I Know it is naive to ask . But JUST WHY?

I think it is the big divide. And I do not understand it. At all.

[desertvixen]

WHY WHY WHY do you not have healthcare. I Know it is naive to ask . But JUST WHY?

I think it is the big divide. And I do not understand it. At all.

(whiny voice)

Because why should *I* have to pay for all those people who are trying to leech off the system? What about those fat people who aren't taking care of themselves? Why can't everyone just work hard and pull themselves up by the bootstraps? I don't care if women have adequate coverage for birth control, stupid sluts should keep their legs closed. Socialism is eeeevil! Why should I care about those other (poor/brown/underpriveleged/lazy/worthless) people?

DISCLAIMER: I, desertvixen, do not believe any of the above BS. Just my interpretation of reasons people are against socialized medicine.

[Coconut Flan]

to the comment immediately before mine, the one saying we were basing our impressions of American health care on incomplete data. It was not directed at anything you wrote, but to another poster.

Sorry I botched the quote. We still aren't clear. I wasn't talking about the healthcare data. I was responding to people saying I suffer from "unexamined privilege" and that people are saying that without complete data. I find that troublesome. All I was doing was saying what my current experience is. Which is fact. I was not disputing the issue of problems. Not in the least. In fact I said it was bad that we have such issues and things should be fixed. To be plain, I fully support the Obama healthcare plan but don't think it goes far enough.

The only reason I said anything was because the discussion was tending toward saying that almost everyone in the country has no to horrible health insurance and benefits. As subsequent discussion brought out that several people here, not just me, don't have that problem. I know that doesn't help the people who don't, but I don't have an I got my mine you go burn attitude. That was something put upon me that doesn't exist. If anything I deal too much in facts. If I see something that is factually inaccurate I feel the need to balance that. Think engineer mindset. I'll try to turn that off.

To accuse me of "unexamined privilege" without knowing me seems a wee bit arrogant. Did you ask me my opinion of increasing Medi-Cal/Medicaid coverage? My stance on free healthcare clinics? What I do about the poor and hungry? What I teach my children about giving back? What I have been through to get and stay able to live here "in privilege"? No. So your data about me is extremely incomplete.

Shall we talk about the discussion I had today about living conditions in a Philippine village where the people have NO healthcare and live on earnings of $2 a day when they can get work? They don't have indoor plumbing, have erratic electric service, and usually have to manually pump water from the village well. Maybe you'd like to help our group improve their conditions also.

Sorry. I've been trying not to react but to have this thrown at me yet again has convinced me I needed to say something.

Edited because normally I can spell Medi-Cal.

[OkToBeTakei]

(whiny voice)

Because why should *I* have to pay for all those people who are trying to leech off the system? What about those fat people who aren't taking care of themselves? Why can't everyone just work hard and pull themselves up by the bootstraps? I don't care if women have adequate coverage for birth control, stupid sluts should keep their legs closed. Socialism is eeeevil! Why should I care about those other (poor/brown/underpriveleged/lazy/worthless) people?

DISCLAIMER: I, desertvixen, do not believe any of the above BS. Just my interpretation of reasons people are against socialized medicine.

You desertvixen get a star. :clap:

That is pretty sad. I pay 32% tax for that ...all you said. But one day it might be me. Or mine. It was...once. My Sister. Her care could not be bought privately. You reap what you sow.

(that is about as biblical as I will ever get)

[dawbs]

(whiny voice)

Because why should *I* have to pay for all those people who are trying to leech off the system? What about those fat people who aren't taking care of themselves? Why can't everyone just work hard and pull themselves up by the bootstraps? I don't care if women have adequate coverage for birth control, stupid sluts should keep their legs closed. Socialism is eeeevil! Why should I care about those other (poor/brown/underpriveleged/lazy/worthless) people?

DISCLAIMER: I, desertvixen, do not believe any of the above BS. Just my interpretation of reasons people are against socialized medicine.

What I hear (from, FWIW, people who are retired, disabled military vets, who have VA care for life) is 1) but we have the best healthcare in the world, 2) people aren't actually denied life-saving care and 3) there are PROGRAMS, like the ones people can sign up for for free prescriptions when they can't afford it (with a healthy dose of 'but they're to stupid to know how to do thaat" attitude thrown in for good measure)

And this is why my sister said that last year's thanksgiving (w/ my ILs, where some of my ILs managed to vocally to insult the professions of EVERY person in my family, present and absent, because we educators and bus drivers and the like are a drain on the system) was worse than the thanksgiving when our dog died.

[OkToBeTakei]

Sorry I botched the quote. We still aren't clear. I wasn't talking about the healthcare data. I was responding to people saying I suffer from "unexamined privilege" and that people are saying that without complete data. I find that troublesome. All I was doing was saying what my current experience is. Which is fact. I was not disputing the issue of problems. Not in the least. In fact I said it was bad that we have such issues and things should be fixed. To be plain, I fully support the Obama healthcare plan but don't think it goes far enough.

The only reason I said anything was because the discussion was tending toward saying that almost everyone in the country has no to horrible health insurance and benefits. As subsequent discussion brought out that several people here, not just me, don't have that problem. I know that doesn't help the people who don't, but I don't have an I got my mine you go burn attitude. That was something put upon me that doesn't exist. If anything I deal too much in facts. If I see something that is factually inaccurate I feel the need to balance that. Think engineer mindset. I'll try to turn that off.

To accuse me of "unexamined privilege" without knowing me seems a wee bit arrogant. Did you ask me my opinion of increasing Medical/Medicaid coverage? My stance on free healthcare clinics? What I do about the poor and hungry? What I teach my children about giving back? What I have been through to get and stay able to live here "in privilege"? No. So your data about me is extremely incomplete.

Shall we talk about the discussion I had today about living conditions in a Philippine village where the people have NO healthcare and live on earnings of $2 a day when they can get work? They don't have indoor plumbing, have erratic electric service, and usually have to manually pump water from the village well. Maybe you'd like to help our group improve their conditions also.

Sorry. I've been trying not to react but to have this thrown at me yet again has convinced me I needed to say something.

[desertvixen]

You desertvixen get a star. :clap:

Why thank you. You are too kind.

What I hear (from, FWIW, people who are retired, disabled military vets, who have VA care for life) is 1) but we have the best healthcare in the world, 2) people aren't actually denied life-saving care and 3) there are PROGRAMS, like the ones people can sign up for for free prescriptions when they can't afford it (with a healthy dose of 'but they're to stupid to know how to do thaat" attitude thrown in for good measure)

I feel your pain.

1. Yes, we have some of the best health care in the world...if you can afford it.

2. But then people go to the ER and are condemned as leeches, whereas if we provided some preventative care to the whole population, maybe we wouldn't get to that point. Not to mention that hi, preventative care would likely NOT COST AS MUCH DAMN MONEY IN LONG TERM.

3. Grrr.

[Coconut Flan]

I live in the US. I work with a charity that works world-wide to improve living conditions. Today we met to discuss a project in the Philippines.

[Seven Severn]

Can I also add a plug for Costco.com? You can use their pharmacy mail service even if you are not a Costco member.

The mail order pharmacy is here: http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePa ... o=11597436

Drug pricing information is here: http://www.costco.com/Pharmacy/DrugInformation.aspx?p=1. The medication is shipped free if you can wait 10 to 14 days for delivery.

I'll put in another plug for Costco (my favorite place on earth): The SO's blood pressure medication is about $6.00 (I think; it's less than $10 anyway) for a three month's supply. So, it's practically free. The pharmacy tech signed him up for a program that heavily discounts it. We were just floored that it was so cheap. Costco is such a great company. Just what we save on milk pays for our membership and then we save on top of that for everything else. If you can get to one it's sooooo worth the membership. Plus, they treat their employees decently which is a huge plus.

[charizbarb]

Sorry I botched the quote. We still aren't clear. I wasn't talking about the healthcare data. I was responding to people saying I suffer from "unexamined privilege" and that people are saying that without complete data. I find that troublesome. All I was doing was saying what my current experience is. Which is fact. I was not disputing the issue of problems. Not in the least. In fact I said it was bad that we have such issues and things should be fixed. To be plain, I fully support the Obama healthcare plan but don't think it goes far enough.

The only reason I said anything was because the discussion was tending toward saying that almost everyone in the country has no to horrible health insurance and benefits. As subsequent discussion brought out that several people here, not just me, don't have that problem. I know that doesn't help the people who don't, but I don't have an I got my mine you go burn attitude. That was something put upon me that doesn't exist. If anything I deal too much in facts. If I see something that is factually inaccurate I feel the need to balance that. Think engineer mindset. I'll try to turn that off.

To accuse me of "unexamined privilege" without knowing me seems a wee bit arrogant. Did you ask me my opinion of increasing Medi-Cal/Medicaid coverage? My stance on free healthcare clinics? What I do about the poor and hungry? What I teach my children about giving back? What I have been through to get and stay able to live here "in privilege"? No. So your data about me is extremely incomplete.

Shall we talk about the discussion I had today about living conditions in a Philippine village where the people have NO healthcare and live on earnings of $2 a day when they can get work? They don't have indoor plumbing, have erratic electric service, and usually have to manually pump water from the village well. Maybe you'd like to help our group improve their conditions also.

Sorry. I've been trying not to react but to have this thrown at me yet again has convinced me I needed to say something.

Edited because normally I can spell Medi-Cal.

[JesusFightClub]

Well, I was replying to a poster who, I thought, was unduly harsh of another poster. That post talked about the idea of "unexamined privilege" which I disagreed with. I don't think if someone was better off and never knew poor people personally that they are ignorant or need to be told off for it. I learn many things by reading of them. I dont meet every person with a sad story...does that mean i have some privilege complex? :shock:

I also don't think anyone should feel guilty about being financially fortunate.. I may have "got mine", that doesn't mean Im ignorant of need elsewhere. I've seen patients in country hospitals and free clinics and I'm very aware of the situation. My husband and I will probably be fine financially. That doesn't mean we ignore the dire need in this country or elsewhere. It also doesn't mean I had a easy life and was untouched by poverty. I hope no one looks at our household and makes assumption of our ignorance of poverty based on our lifestyle. I don't need to examine my "privilege" to know there are people in need. And if I do need correction on my views, I certainly hope it will be with patience and not exasperation. :oops:

EDIT: I apologize if I sound teed off. My life is not without its stress right now. :|

S'alright. It's a tricky subject. :) Hope the stress, whatever it may be, gets sorted soon for you!

It's not a "privilege complex". It's just privilege. You've got it, I've got it. We can hear sad stories until they're coming out our arseholes, and it wouldn't make us more or less privileged. It's to do with material conditions far more than it is morals or emotions.

This is a debate, much like debates on class, which tends to veer off into the emotional. People with money/class/status privileges often feel personally attacked when you point out to them that they hold privilege (and this can be seen on this thread). They jump to "how dare you say I know nothing about [oppression X]! Why, one of my very best friends is [group Y]! And I give to charity!" or the other old chestnut "I worked bloody hard to get where I am, and if [group Y] would just shut up and stop playing the victim card, they could do it too!"

It's quite understandable that people feel got at, but not particularly sensible. This is a discussion of material conditions and cultural attitudes, not whether one is a "good person" or not. Feeling guilty is an absolute waste of time and leads one down the dead end of ID politics - also, guilt paralyses. If you're busy beating yourself up because you have something others lack - privileges - then when will you find time to do something about the fact there are these huge inequalities in society?

We're coming into this discussion from different political angles, but then sometimes the goal is just to have the discussion in the first place...

[emmiedahl]

Why thank you. You are too kind.

I feel your pain.

1. Yes, we have some of the best health care in the world...if you can afford it.

2. But then people go to the ER and are condemned as leeches, whereas if we provided some preventative care to the whole population, maybe we wouldn't get to that point. Not to mention that hi, preventative care would likely NOT COST AS MUCH DAMN MONEY IN LONG TERM.

3. Grrr.

ERs just don't work for long term management, either. I have a friend who has a kidney disorder and ends up in the ER all the time because of her issue. They prescribe medication that she cannot buy and want her to see an expert that will not see her unless she has insurance or pays upfront. So she is in the ER every few weeks and miserable all of the time. She is a single mother making less than $2000 a month and the hospital expects her to pay her $4000 a month in hospital bills because she does not earn little enough for charity care. It ain't gonna happen, but she gets bills and calls every day. So the hospital will write it off on their taxes and our government will be paying $4000 a month or more to keep her sick when it could be paying $800 a month to keep her well.

This is why the US is in such bad shape. We also choose the "free market" option even when it costs a ton more.

[fundiefan]

I got to read the first couple pages of this then it exploded in the last couple of days.

About food - it's about control for the fundies. Its a sad, pathetic thing to do, but sadly, not unusual with the large fundie clans. We all know it ain't cheap to eat, and of course the more you're feeding, the more you're going to spend. Since their god doesn't actually provide the means to care for and feed the blessings given to the big families, they have to figure out how to do it without admitting that god is not doing what they claim he does. So, they turn it into a moral/character issue and go off the deep end in cutting food expenses.

There are always ways to cut the food budget, but going straight for the bottom line is pretty absurd, not to mention unhealthy. People need to eat, period. Growing kids and teenagers really need to eat. Having parents who control that so obsessively is anything but healthy.

[Arete]

Your point is well taken fundiefan, but I believe God does provide us with the means to feed and care for our blessings. It's called the brain. A lot of people actually use it to limit their family size, develop the skills to get real jobs, and think about the most nutritious bang for the buck. Warehousing children and feeding them crap is disgusting, not God affirming. There is no reason for children to grow up with locked cabinets, other than that the adults of the home have confused breeding with parenting.

[EmmieJ]

I agree that for fundies, they seem to feel it necessary to control every aspect of their children's lives, even down to what they eat. Some seem to take pleasure in forcing children to eat things they hate, others take perverse pleasure in scrimping on the food budget so much that their children are under nourished.

I'm on a limited income, and the only place I can carve out any money for extras is my grocery budget. So we don't have a lot of extras :D I just have one child, age 14, and his appetite has recently jumped. He's hungry all the time. It's very hard to stay on budget, but I would feel awful making him go hungry. I fill out dinner meals with a lot of pasta, potatoes, and rice. I also give him the bulk of whatever meat or poultry we're having with that meal. He needs it more than I do. He goes through a gallon of milk in no time flat.

This is why I limited myself to one child, even though I would have loved to have more.

[fundiefan]

Your point is well taken fundiefan, but I believe God does provide us with the means to feed and care for our blessings. It's called the brain. A lot of people actually use it to limit their family size, develop the skills to get real jobs, and think about the most nutritious bang for the buck. Warehousing children and feeding them crap is disgusting, not God affirming. There is no reason for children to grow up with locked cabinets, other than that the adults of the home have confused breeding with parenting.

Unfortunately, the obsessive fundie mindset doesn't include acknowledging their own brain or their own choices. It is all up to god to them. As people like Kelly obsess over the food budget, they're also trying like hell to have god 'bless' them (more kids). It's a twisted life that gives a twisted view of things.