Food Budget

[emmiedahl]

I am surprised I never heard of this. I thought it was only people like Mitt Romney. Seriously, my bubble includes people from a variety of walks of life and most of my family have at least a master's degree. Some people have good health insurance, some have up to four weeks of vacation, but no one I know in real life has full health *and* 6 weeks vacation.

I am not doubting that it exists, just thinking it must be pretty rare.

[Witsec7]

I am surprised I never heard of this. I thought it was only people like Mitt Romney. Seriously, my bubble includes people from a variety of walks of life and most of my family have at least a master's degree. Some people have good health insurance, some have up to four weeks of vacation, but no one I know in real life has full health *and* 6 weeks vacation.

I am not doubting that it exists, just thinking it must be pretty rare.

Had I stayed in public service I'd be getting 6 weeks this year. I would have to contribute about $125 for a cadillac medical plan, ok vision and dental. For another $69 I could get long term and short term disability and for another $60 long term health with a cap of one Mil. That's on a salary of a litter under $45K. The down side of this is our state employees are taking unpaid furlough days to help the state budget. I'm not sure on how many days it is, perhaps 4-6 per annum.

[Sumeri]

I work full time and have no benefits at all. No health insurance, no vacation, no sick leave. None. My husband carries our health insurance, which means he works in another state and only comes home on the weekend, which also means I have sole responsibility for the kids. And I'm not even grousing, for real. We are extremely privileged in our part of the country,comfortably middle classish, and there are many. MANY families in the US who have it worse than we do. That is reality in this country. I'm glad to hear that there are some US citizens who have a better situation, but we certainly don't, and neither do most of the people we know.

[Coconut Flan]

OK, I was tacky and looked up the neighbor's benefit package. It's online so the world can see it.

http://www.unionbankvt.com/resources/pd ... erview.pdf

He gets five weeks vacation and six personal days plus sick leave. Last I heard dr visit co-pays were $10 and prescription $5.

Bananacat, your lecture is not needed. I am defining the life the co-workers, neighbors, relatives, and I lead. I know it is not what everyone leads, but you need to know it is not a life that only a tiny, tiny percentage of the population leads. This entire community of thousands that I live in is like this. Compared to most people in this community or our church, I am not well off.

If I weren't paying attention to the stories and problems that people on here have talked about and if I were intent on living in "my bubble" and in ignorance then I'd have done so in peace and quiet and you'd be none the wiser.

I know a lot about poverty. I grew up in one of the poorest spots in this country. I do my share to help others, but what I do isn't anyone else's business. As a child I watched my mother cry because she couldn't buy groceries and I helped her scrounge through what we had in the freezer and pantry to pull together meals for a few days.

[YPestis]

This is the very definition of unexamined privilege and I hope that you will take this opportunity to fully examine your privilege instead of just doing it lip-service. You likely only spend time with people in your own economic class so you have a skewed view of reality.

Hey, come on now. There's no need to make others feel bad about how they live. Just because someone had the fortune of good benefits doesn't mean they lived an easy life, or that they live in a bubble. Plus, poor people do not automatically incur a moral high ground, nor should well off feel people feel guilty for what they have. We should focus on finding solutions to help those at the bottom while educating others on the real need we still have in this country. Nothing productive ever comes from fanning the flames of class resentment. ;)

[bananacat]

Hey, come on now. There's no need to make others feel bad about how they live. Just because someone had the fortune of good benefits doesn't mean they lived an easy life, or that they live in a bubble. Plus, poor people do not automatically incur a moral high ground, nor should well off feel people feel guilty for what they have. We should focus on finding solutions to help those at the bottom while educating others on the real need we still have in this country. Nothing productive ever comes from fanning the flames of class resentment. ;)

Pointing out privilege is not a lecture and it's not about class resentment or making others feel bad. You clearly don't understand the concept of unexamined privilege. It exists. Abigail has it. When confronted with it, the choice is to either examine the privilege and become more understanding of other people, or to stick your head in the sand and become resentful. I can't control how Abigail deals with her privilege, but I can certainly point out that it exists.

[smores]

Pointing out privilege is not a lecture and it's not about class resentment or making others feel bad. You clearly don't understand the concept of unexamined privilege. It exists. Abigail has it. When confronted with it, the choice is to either examine the privilege and become more understanding of other people, or to stick your head in the sand and become resentful. I can't control how Abigail deals with her privilege, but I can certainly point out that it exists.

I don't think there's anything wrong with what she said.

I think it's really presumptive to say that she has unexamined privilege. If she did, she certainly wouldn't have shared her experience on this thread, qualifying it as different. And how she "deals" with it? What the heck does that even mean? My husband and I have similar "privilege" I guess you could say, since I'm a SAHM and he has 5 weeks vacay + holidays + sick time and almost completely covered insurance... I don't deal with it in any other way than to use it when I need it and vote for others having access to healthcare and paid sick time. I mean, how does one become resentful of privilege? I'm so confused by that statement.

[emmiedahl]

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that some Americans have great insurance and lots of paid time off, and I think there is nothing wrong with bananacat's observing that this is only the privileged.

The average American gets 12 days a year total of paid leave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_leave). I know wikipedia is not the best, but it cites more reputable sources and I thought this chart was a great comparison of PTO in various countries. 55.3% of workers get insurance through their jobs and many of these people have to pay part or all of it. The average health insurance premium for a family is almost $14,000 a year. (http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/13/news/ec ... /index.htm). Long vacations and health coverage are indeed markers of privilege in the US and it is good to remember that.

edited to add that the paid time off includes sick time, family sick leave and vacation.

[Katiebug]

I work with a few people who have 6 weeks of vacation time. It requires upwards of 30 years of tenure with our company. I had to work here for 7.5 years before I got my third week (the calendar year following 7 full years of service). I won't get my fourth week until 15 years, the 5th is at 22 or 23, and the 6th is at 30+ years. I have the option of buying up to a week of vacation - I have to "pay" my employer the equivalent of a week's worth of my salary to get it. Once I got my third week I stopped buying. I also have a substantial amount of sick time that doesn't count against vacation time. You start with 10 or 15 days of sick time and add 5 days per year, so I'm up to something like 11 or 12 weeks. It's enough that when I was on maternity leave I was able to have 6 weeks of my FMLA at full pay rather than 60% of pay from short term disability because I was allowed to use sick time. However, any illness over 3 consecutive work days requires a doctor's note so it would be difficult to really abuse it. I'm also not able to use sick time to care for a sick dependent; I'm supposed to use vacation time. I'm very fortunate to be able to telecommute or flextime when our daughter is sick.

I work for a Fortune 100 company and our medical benefits have gotten progressively worse in the 9 years I've worked there. It's obvious that they're trying to push employees onto the high deductible plans or onto a spouse's insurance coverage instead. Our daughter is 2 and we just finished paying off our share of the hospital bills from her birth. We had an 80/20 PPO plan with a national insurer and for a fairly typical course of prenatal care, a high risk but generally uncomplicated vaginal delivery, and a 2 day hospital stay for me and the baby, we ended up paying out of pocket more than $6000 - that in a year when we'd already shelled out $400/month in premiums for said coverage. Thankfully my husband works for an even bigger company with lower rates of pay but better benefits. We have insurance with lower copays and deductibles and half the out of pocket max, for 1/4 of the premium cost of insurance through my employer. We didn't realize how comparatively crummy my employer's medical plans had gotten until 2 years ago when my husband got his current job and we switched to his employer's policy.

I have to say that while some of our benefits package has gone downhill, I'm fortunate enough to be fully vested in a pension plan (it's a cash balance plan, not defined-benefit, but way better than nothing) along with a moderate 401(k) match on top of it. They've paid for me to go to grad school for two master's degrees. It's not all bad, but for the stage of life where I am right now, in my early 30s with a growing family, getting decent insurance for my family is tops among my benefits-related concerns and things in that area have definitely gotten a lot worse in the last 4-5 years in particular.

FWIW, this is the first job my husband's had which offers any paid sick time at all. He worked in retail for a number of years while he was working through college, and then for a period of time after he graduated. He typically had around a week of vacation per year and if he was sick he was expected to go to work anyways. At his most recent former employer they offered no PTO of any kind, and he wasn't FMLA-eligible because they laid him off for 3 weeks while I was pregnant, so when our daughter was born he was at their mercy to take 5 days of unpaid time off without losing his job. It really, really sucked for him to have no PTO at all. It's like a dream for him to have what he has now.

I manage to feed our family of two adults and one 2 year old for a budgeted amount of $100/week. I usually come in right around that amount, but it takes a lot of work and that's just for food - it doesn't include paper goods, laundry detergent, cleaning products, etc. and dining out is a separate category in our budget. We don't buy processed convenience foods; that money is for organic dairy and I try to buy all-natural meat and chicken, plus a some of our fruit and veggies are organic. I menu plan for every meal each week and shop what's on sale at 2-3 different stores in order to come in at or under budget on food.

[Want More Babies]

I was at a cookout tonight with neighbors and the topic turned to growing up. Many of these people who are in their 40's and 50's were saying how though they were POOR, they were never hungry.

I would go without food before I would let my children go hungry.

I am just tired of hearing how children are such a blessing, yet are treated worse than animals.

[maybeizfundie]

One of the things that bugged me about the Money Saving Mom blog was about how little food they actually seemed to eat. I think I even commented on it once. Removing big fat me, and my food issues, the amounts still were so small my 3 very thin, very active boys and my very hardworking husband would have been left feeling very hungry. I couldn't figure it out.

I can see how snacking could get out of hand, exponentially so with many kids. But it does seem like maybe planning for snacks and designating "snack only" food could help with that issue, rather than just locking down the kitchen?

Anyway, at this point, I feel like I'm doing good with $600/mo for the 5 of us (baby is still nursing, so I don't count her in that tally). i don't read budget blogs and grocery savings posts because they depress me. And because we don't really thrive on beans and rice (tried that). Even shopping at a discount store, the prices have gone up noticably in the last couple of years. Doubling and tripling. :(

[desertvixen]

In my entire life I have never known an American with six weeks paid vacation.

We can get 30 days per year in the military - you earn 2.5 days of leave for every month. We can save it up until we hit 75 days, but it can be difficult to take more than 30 days at a time (paperwork issues). Women can use their personal leave to pad out the six weeks of convalescent leave postpartum, men can take 10 days of paternity leave if they're married to the mother.

However, we also have the benefits of a) lots of federal holidays unless we're vacationing in fabulous Afghanistan or some such place and b) if you're sick enough to need quarters, you get quarters and you're not docked pay or anything like that.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I have 2 weeks pd vacation a year, several yearly pd bonuses, a small profit sharing plan (no 401K), and Kaiser HMO insurance which costs me about $250/ mo. I work for the most employee-centric company that I've ever worked for and I'm grateful, but it took me until 3 years ago to get there. The most obsurd thing about it is that I have a Bachelors degree in Criminal Justice, yet going to school for 3 months to get my CNA license is how I got this job. My CJ degree is worth about $12 an hour around here, and all of the cities, counties, and the state are all on pay freezes so no one is getting pay raises or even cost of living adjustments.

I love my job and the flexibility it gives me to also stay home and care for my son, but I am truly frightened about the next few years; I work for a home health agency mostly with pediatric and young adult patients, 80% of which are on medicare and medicade. They have been making cuts to both programs every year, and if benefits are cut any further we may have hiring freezes and loss of benefits. Mostly I fear for my patients (and my son) who will loose crucial services if more drastic cuts are made.

Edited because my sentence didn't make sense.....

[marmalade]

I am surprised I never heard of this. I thought it was only people like Mitt Romney. Seriously, my bubble includes people from a variety of walks of life and most of my family have at least a master's degree. Some people have good health insurance, some have up to four weeks of vacation, but no one I know in real life has full health *and* 6 weeks vacation.

I am not doubting that it exists, just thinking it must be pretty rare.

My husband has at least that much, if not closer to 8 weeks, racked up (he accumulates vacation hrs. based on hours worked each pay period...he works 96), not to mention the 3 days of sick leave he can take every 3 months without a note. We pay nothing out of pocket for our health insurance and I had an appendectomy plus a plantar fasciectomy done without having to pay a dime out of pocket. The two surgeries, plus 5 days in the hospital after the appendectomy cost about $125k.

We're far from rich, actually around here with such a high cost of living, we're lower middle class (we can live better because of rent control and the fact we've lived in this place since 1996). So, it really boils down to cheap rent and a good union. If those are destroyed as the Republicans want, the last bastion of the middle class will be lost. I'm going into teaching, hardly a profession that brings in the coin and AFAIK, Cali is trying their darndest not to offer pensions to any incoming state employees. I'm not sure about my city, but being that it's broke, I doubt there's any retirement fund there either. I'll likely just stay on his insurance when I'm ready to go back to work; I don't think it's beatable in terms of the benefits, not to mention I'm virtually uninsurable since being dx'ed with anxiety and bipolar disorders.

[Stephers831]

I live and work in WV. I have 3 college degrees I haven't been able to utilize but I refuse to move due to being close to family. I work for an independent pharmacy chain of 4 locally owned aforesaid and have been employed by them off and on since 1999. I currently get 10 days paid sick leave/vacation time per year. As a single person I pay $95 per paycheck for medical insurance and 18$ per check for a short term disability plan. The deductible on my plan is 3000$, out of pocket maximum is 10000$ and its only getting worse. Even though I work for a pharmacy my prescription copays are high 25-50$ per) and I get my medication elsewhere when I can because its cheaper. In the early 1990s my parents had to declare medical bankruptcy, mom was a RN supervisor for a nursing home and dad has worked for a chemical plant (major company) for 35 years but the cost of her spinal surgery was so excessive they had no choice. I've had 18 surgeries so far at 31 and I'm paying my portion to the local hospital chain at 50$ a monthfor the rest of my life. I see a rheumatologist twice a year for juvinile onset arthritis and since my insurance is basically useless I pay $650 per visit, that includes seeing the Dr, having cortisone shots, and getting new prescriptions written. Thank God that when I get married later this month ill have great insurance.

[Wolfie]

In my entire life I have never known an American with six weeks paid vacation. Even my doctor does not get the benefits you describe.

And if you're claiming teachers- we don't get paid for times that school isn't in session. In my district we also have to pay for part of our insurance, and it's not that great (other than our vision and dental) unless we're paying close to $1000 a month over what our employer pays. (our share starts at $50 and goes up from there depending on our choice of coverages)

[Wolfie]

It is statewide and has been that way at least since my mother was a waitress in the early eighties.

It may have been true then, but it's not true now. http://www.epi.org/publication/pm114/

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I just wanted to add that Costco has an AMAZING discount drug plan for members. You don't have enroll or provide any information or anything, if you're a Costco member, you get it. My Kaiser copays for meds are $15 or $40 depending on the drug, and at Costco I get both the meds I'm on for $12/mo, including $4.99 for generic Xanax. Last year when I had my jaw surgery I had 5 prescriptions - a medicated mouth wash, antibiotics, vicodin, a muscle relaxer, and something else and the total was $23.00. I flipped my lid because I thought it would be much much more than that. Well worth the $50 a year membership, plus who doesn't love samples??

Just thought I'd share my favorite new place. The first couple of times I went there to pick up my scripts I got all gushy and fangirly with the girl at the pharmacy because I was so excited and thankful.

[CrazySister]

I just wanted to add that Costco has an AMAZING discount drug plan for members. You don't have enroll or provide any information or anything, if you're a Costco member, you get it. My Kaiser copays for meds are $15 or $40 depending on the drug, and at Costco I get both the meds I'm on for $12/mo, including $4.99 for generic Xanax. Last year when I had my jaw surgery I had 5 prescriptions - a medicated mouth wash, antibiotics, vicodin, a muscle relaxer, and something else and the total was $23.00. I flipped my lid because I thought it would be much much more than that. Well worth the $50 a year membership, plus who doesn't love samples??

Just thought I'd share my favorite new place. The first couple of times I went there to pick up my scripts I got all gushy and fangirly with the girl at the pharmacy because I was so excited and thankful.

Thanks for the info; I'm going to have to look into this!

[Boogalou]

Ok, I have to ask because several people have said it now, when you talk about including or not including "paper goods" in your grocery budget, what are you talking about? All I can think of when you say paper goods are paper plates a la the Duggars, but I know that can't be right and google is failing me :( I feel like I am being kind of dense here, and for that I apologize.

[snarkbillie]

Ok, I have to ask because several people have said it now, when you talk about including or not including "paper goods" in your grocery budget, what are you talking about? All I can think of when you say paper goods are paper plates a la the Duggars, but I know that can't be right and google is failing me :( I feel like I am being kind of dense here, and for that I apologize.

Toilet paper, tissues (for blowing your nose), feminine products, paper towels, disposable diapers, etc. I tend to not count those types of things in my food budget as they're purchased non-regularly. Like I don't run out of tissues every week or whatever. I also tend to forget to count cleaning supplies and dog food and sundry in it so it ends up sounding like I spend way less than I actually do.

[Wolfie]

Ok, I have to ask because several people have said it now, when you talk about including or not including "paper goods" in your grocery budget, what are you talking about? All I can think of when you say paper goods are paper plates a la the Duggars, but I know that can't be right and google is failing me :( I feel like I am being kind of dense here, and for that I apologize.

Paper napkins, paper towels, toilet paper, tissues, some might even lump disposable plastic stuff like garbage bags, ziplock baggies, saran wrap, and aluminum foil in that group.

I tend to save a lot there by using cloth napkins and mostly cloth towels around the kitchen, but I do use a little of everything on the list at times, and my big splurge there are the rolls of bags for my foodsaver, but that saves me money in other areas. (and I have the jar attachments, and a decent selection of the containers too, and those last longer than the bags.)

[Boogalou]

Toilet paper, tissues (for blowing your nose), feminine products, paper towels, disposable diapers, etc. I tend to not count those types of things in my food budget as they're purchased non-regularly. Like I don't run out of tissues every week or whatever. I also tend to forget to count cleaning supplies and dog food and sundry in it so it ends up sounding like I spend way less than I actually do.

Oh, thanks so much! I have never heard anyone IRL use that term before. You learn something new everyday.

[Wolfie]

Toilet paper, tissues (for blowing your nose), feminine products, paper towels, disposable diapers, etc. I tend to not count those types of things in my food budget as they're purchased non-regularly. Like I don't run out of tissues every week or whatever. I also tend to forget to count cleaning supplies and dog food and sundry in it so it ends up sounding like I spend way less than I actually do.

I consider critter food a separate category than my human groceries. I probably should count part of the cost, since I do eat the eggs and sometimes the roosters. But I don't eat my cats or other non-poultry critters right now, so they have their own category in my budget. (I have eaten rabbits in the past, but don't have any meat rabbits at this point in time.) I also keep my paper goods and cleaning supplies separate, because I only buy them every few months, mainly because I live alone and try to use and reusable stuff as much as possible.

[snarkbillie]

I consider critter food a separate category than my human groceries. I probably should count part of the cost, since I do eat the eggs and sometimes the roosters. But I don't eat my cats or other non-poultry critters right now, so they have their own category in my budget. (I have eaten rabbits in the past, but don't have any meat rabbits at this point in time.) I also keep my paper goods and cleaning supplies separate, because I only buy them every few months, mainly because I live alone and try to use and reusable stuff as much as possible.

We all sort things differently. I remember when I was teaching a budget class to some teens who were about to graduate. I had a category for "entertainment" on the worksheet and there was a big discussion as to whether or not internet counted under "entertainment" or "utilities" on a budget. I was on the entertainment side. I also realized that when I was making up my mock budget I didn't consider a lot of the types of entertainment I partake in and would have left them off if my husband hadn't been sweet enough to "proof read" my examples. For one, I didn't remember that I pay for Netflix or count the money I spend each month on mp3 songs. While neither of these are budget breakers, if you don't include them in your budget page and yet still purchase them you're going to come up short at the end of the month.

Say you make $50 in allowance (I was teaching teens remember) and you budget $20 for make-up/clothes and $10 for entertainment and you go to a $10 movie and then later remember that you wanted to rent some movies.... you're already messed up right?