evangelizing FSM to a clinic protester

[Anxious Girl]

I find it interesting that I can't find a single part of your arguement against having an n-th abortion that isn't the also true for having a first abortion. If you think life is life and should be revered, and that people shouldn't "start a life you can't finish", why does that only apply to the third or fourth abortion and not the first one? The fetus aborted during a woman's 5th abortion isn't any different in quality of potentional than the fetus she aborted during her 1st abortion.

I also find this part of your statement very telling:

To be honest, I think you're only "pro-choice" in that you'd like the option for one or two abortions to be available to you, because you realize you could be in a situation of having an unwanted pregnancy once or twice in your life. Once it becomes a situation you can't see applying to yourself (multiple abortions), you become the same judgemental asshole that every anti-choice person is.

Also, "think of the babeez!1!!1!" isn't going to get you very far here.

This. Only the person who regards fetus as life can recieve abortion in a life-threatening situation; doncha know, valsa? :roll:

[Austin]

SisIL78, I think you're confusing your personal sensibilities, which I don't happen to find that unreasonable to hold for yourself, with judging other women for having different sensibilities or different life circumstances. You have a right to feel all of those ways for yourself. Many otherwise pro-choice people do. But you don't get to say to other women who make different choices what they should/shouldn't do. I don't think it helps the prochoice cause in any way to believe that women should be shamed into "taking responsibility".

[SisiL78]

Again, LAST FRIGGIN' TIME.

I NEVER SAID THAT I THOUGHT WOMEN SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY DONT WANT.

I'd just like to see a little personal responsibility in taking control of one's fecundity and not get pregnant.

Condoms fail less than 1 percent of the time when used properly. The pill has a similarly low failure rate when you're on a BC pill (and not a small dose progesterone only pill). Honestly if you're relying on condoms and BC at the same time and get pregnant then you're one in a billion.

We can use the excuse "I don't care how it affects you" for a lot of things. I'll dump dog shit in the sewer because I don't care if it pollutes your water. I don't care about using disposable diapers or driving a gas guzzling car or not recycling or not vaccinating my kids or neutering my pets. All of those things may affect you and your family, but why should I care? And why shouldn't you care that there is the possibility that a life is being destroyed? If you don't care that's fine. But, I'm not going to say that we should needlessly create lives and destroy them if there's an alternative.

I don't give a fig about the white population versus the brown population. I've never expressed a racist thought here. In fact I don't care what race one is. Where did I mention even once a concern about white babies? IF you're going to just make shit up then what's the point of a discussion?

[Anxious Girl]

This week must be the fundie week of the year. They're coming out from the woodworks! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Witsec1]

Oh ffs. If it's irresponsible to conceive a child you can't care for, it's even more irresponsible.to carry it to term. Anyway, you're just assuming that she will ignore any new information about the state of her fertility that she got from this experience.

I've never had an abortion but I admit I've had failed to use contraception when I should have, when my daughter was a baby. Dealing with sleep deprivation, the changes in your body after pregnancy, coping with a new method of contraception... so fuck you slut shamers.

[Anxious Girl]

Again, LAST FRIGGIN' TIME.

I NEVER SAID THAT I THOUGHT WOMEN SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY DONT WANT.

I'd just like to see a little personal responsibility in taking control of one's fecundity and not get pregnant.

Condoms fail less than 1 percent of the time when used properly. The pill has a similarly low failure rate when you're on a BC pill (and not a small dose progesterone only pill). Honestly if you're relying on condoms and BC at the same time and get pregnant then you're one in a billion.

We can use the excuse "I don't care how it affects you" for a lot of things. I'll dump dog shit in the sewer because I don't care if it pollutes your water. I don't care about using disposable diapers or driving a gas guzzling car or not recycling or not vaccinating my kids or neutering my pets. All of those things may affect you and your family, but why should I care? And why shouldn't you care that there is the possibility that a life is being destroyed? If you don't care that's fine. But, I'm not going to say that we should needlessly create lives and destroy them if there's an alternative.

I don't give a fig about the white population versus the brown population. I've never expressed a racist thought here. In fact I don't care what race one is. Where did I mention even once a concern about white babies? IF you're going to just make shit up then what's the point of a discussion?

About the white babies; I said that because usually pro-life fundies don't want abortion because they believe in the myth of the white winter. All those actions affect your personal health. How does my, or any other woman who has an abortion, affect your personal health? Wow, and way to be considerate to the rape victims by saying "Don't get pregnant". I'm assuming by these words that you're a victim blamer.

[Gil]

Again, LAST FRIGGIN' TIME.

I NEVER SAID THAT I THOUGHT WOMEN SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY DONT WANT.

I'd just like to see a little personal responsibility in taking control of one's fecundity and not get pregnant.

Condoms fail less than 1 percent of the time when used properly. The pill has a similarly low failure rate when you're on a BC pill (and not a small dose progesterone only pill). Honestly if you're relying on condoms and BC at the same time and get pregnant then you're one in a billion.

We can use the excuse "I don't care how it affects you" for a lot of things. I'll dump dog shit in the sewer because I don't care if it pollutes your water. I don't care about using disposable diapers or driving a gas guzzling car or not recycling or not vaccinating my kids or neutering my pets. All of those things may affect you and your family, but why should I care? And why shouldn't you care that there is the possibility that a life is being destroyed? If you don't care that's fine. But, I'm not going to say that we should needlessly create lives and destroy them if there's an alternative.

I don't give a fig about the white population versus the brown population. I've never expressed a racist thought here. In fact I don't care what race one is. Where did I mention even once a concern about white babies? IF you're going to just make shit up then what's the point of a discussion?

Well, you can "like to see it" however you want. I'd also like to see a million dollars and a corgi puppy on my doorstep right now. Doesn't mean it's going to happen and doesn't mean that you can complain it isn't happening because believe it or not, what you'd "like to see" is irrelevant to just about everything.

No one said "I don't care how it affects you." We said "we don't care what you do so long as it doesn't affect us/others." See the difference? Reading comprehension!

[Anxious Girl]

Well, you can "like to see it" however you want. I'd also like to see a million dollars and a corgi puppy on my doorstep right now. Doesn't mean it's going to happen and doesn't mean that you can complain it isn't happening because believe it or not, what you'd "like to see" is irrelevant to just about everything.

No one said "I don't care how it affects you." We said "we don't care what you do so long as it doesn't affect us/others." See the difference? Reading comprehension!

I said I don't care how my getting an abortion effects her. Whoops. * :oops: *

[meda]

Again, LAST FRIGGIN' TIME.

I NEVER SAID THAT I THOUGHT WOMEN SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY DONT WANT.

I'd just like to see a little personal responsibility in taking control of one's fecundity and not get pregnant.

Condoms fail less than 1 percent of the time when used properly. The pill has a similarly low failure rate when you're on a BC pill (and not a small dose progesterone only pill). Honestly if you're relying on condoms and BC at the same time and get pregnant then you're one in a billion.

We can use the excuse "I don't care how it affects you" for a lot of things. I'll dump dog shit in the sewer because I don't care if it pollutes your water. I don't care about using disposable diapers or driving a gas guzzling car or not recycling or not vaccinating my kids or neutering my pets. All of those things may affect you and your family, but why should I care? And why shouldn't you care that there is the possibility that a life is being destroyed? If you don't care that's fine. But, I'm not going to say that we should needlessly create lives and destroy them if there's an alternative.

I don't give a fig about the white population versus the brown population. I've never expressed a racist thought here. In fact I don't care what race one is. Where did I mention even once a concern about white babies? IF you're going to just make shit up then what's the point of a discussion?

all of the things you list here actually do affect other people. Abortion only affecte the person having the abortion. Are you really comparing having an abortion to polluting drinking water? I think you need to go find a sense of perspective, becasue you are conflating how you feel about abortion with stuff like actual facts. I feel that this woman was responsible in her choices. I also feel that it's none of my business. You on the other hand seem to think that your feelings should guide other people's family planning decisions. I feel that that is an arrogant position for you to take.

[valsa]

We can use the excuse "I don't care how it affects you" for a lot of things.

We're not saying "I don't care how it affects you", we're saying "it doesn't affect you." And it doesn't. Not in the least.

And why shouldn't you care that there is the possibility that a life is being destroyed?

If we should care about the possibility that a life is being destroyed, why should we only care when it's the 2-3rd+ life being destroyed?

I care if people are killed, no matter if it's one person or several people. So why are you saying that fetal life being destroyed only matters if it happens more than once or twice?

[Anxious Girl]

all of the things you list here actually do affect other people. Abortion only affecte the person having the abortion. Are you really comparing having an abortion to polluting drinking water? I think you need to go find a sense of perspective, becasue you are conflating how you feel about abortion with stuff like actual facts. I feel that this woman was responsible in her choices. I also feel that it's none of my business. You on the other hand seem to think that your feelings should guide other people's family planning decisions. I feel that that is an arrogant position for you to take.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Gil]

I said I don't care how my getting an abortion effects her. Whoops. * :oops: *

But the thing is that it really doesn't. Polluting water and the environment, allowing other people to get sick, and contributing to the pet overpopulation tangibly affect other sentient beings. Getting a medical procedure has no affect on her.

I'm not sure I agree with dragging race into it because I think that's a little hysterical and unnecessary, though. Just saying, I think it's a little over the line and not truly helpful.

[Witsec1]

Why do you assume that the OP blogger won't take this new information she gained about her fertility status to adjust her contraception routine? She made a responsible decision to have an abortion, I assume she will continue in that vein w/o a dose of slut-shaming and hand-wringing from you.

Btw, here is a feral kitty my family and I rescued and bottle-fed until he could go to a new mommy:

[Anxious Girl]

Gil and SisL76, I apologize for the race comment. I probably was just assuming shit, which I shouldn't.

[Sumeri]

Why do any of us care?

Because I feel that there is life, not fully formed life but life. And we have to be more careful about creating it and then disposing of it. Again, I will reiterate that I'm very pro-choice. But also pro-responsibility. ITs trite, but my grandma taught me to never start something I couldn't finish. Don't start a life you can't finish. And having unprotected sex when you are not in menopause is potentially starting a life. If you can't finish that life then put on a condom. Get an IUD or a pill or whatever. I can think of six distinct methods of B.C.. Most of them are pretty easy to get, at the moment. Heck, we buy condoms at Costco its like 50 of them for 12.99. Sometimes even as cheap as 9.99. That's a lot of sex for ten dollars!

and...

Just don't get pregnant. I'd gladly pay more in my taxes so that every single contraception method out there was super cheap or free. I will teach my kids that contraception is awesome and that its money well spent (and i'll buy it for them if they need it, i don't care how old they are).

Here's a handy chart for you.

http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/summarychart.html

Not always so easy to just say "use contraception!"

[meda]

Sqeeeeee!!!!!!! yay for rescuing kitties ( I am of course assuming you slut shamed their mother for being so irresponsable as to have a litter she couldn't care for) :D

[Anxious Girl]

Why do you assume that the OP blogger won't take this new information she gained about her fertility status to adjust her contraception routine? She made a responsible decision to have an abortion, I assume she will continue in that vein w/o a dose of slut-shaming and hand-wringing from you.

Btw, here is a feral kitty my family and I rescued and bottle-fed until he could go to a new mommy:

*squees in adoration* ahem, cough cough. Feel free to ignore the squealing coming from the right-hand corner. ;)

[Anise]

Again, I will reiterate that I'm very pro-choice.

You keep stating that you are very pro-choice. If you were, it would be evident in what you've been saying, but it's not. You've been shaming this woman for having an abortion when she was making a sound decision regarding her family.

I can think of six distinct methods of B.C.. Most of them are pretty easy to get, at the moment. Heck, we buy condoms at Costco its like 50 of them for 12.99. Sometimes even as cheap as 9.99. That's a lot of sex for ten dollars!

I don't think you are in the position of being able to give advice regarding birthcontrol.

Firstly, you claimed from experience that the mini pill does not suppress fertility, but you also stated that your experience was with only the low-dosage mini pill intended to address hormonal issues, not fertility. Secondly, you advocate using just condoms. Now there's nothing wrong with using them from time to time, but they aren't exactly guaranteed. Hormonal birth control has a much lower failure rate. Most experts recommend using two different forms of birth control. I'm glad that you are making decisions regarding your fertility, but frankly you are not an expert. Being lucky that it hasn't failed yet does not give you the moral standpoint to judge this woman.

If I care about kittens being created and dying, then I care about human children in various stages of development being created and destroyed. I really think its arrogant for any of us to know what a fetus really is. I'm not worried so much about embryos or blastocytes. I can't personally see a bunch of undifferentiated cells as being potential life. But once they have implanted and started to differentiate there has to be some care taken. . .

So tell me again how pro-choice you are. :roll:

[Gil]

OMG, Flora, y-you mean you can be pro-choice AND take care of homeless baby animals?! I'm confused!

i can't find any of my kittens, so here's a litter of my foster puppies. All are grown and adopted out to whatever kind of person enjoys JRT/Cairn mixes.

[Anxious Girl]

OMG, Flora, y-you mean you can be pro-choice AND take care of homeless baby animals?! I'm confused!

i can't find any of my kittens, so here's a litter of my foster puppies. All are grown and adopted out to whatever kind of person enjoys JRT/Cairn mixes.

Puppies! :shock: :o I LOVE TEH PUPPIES! Especially rottweilers! (They're my favorite animal and dog!) :D

[Witsec1]

Sqeeeeee!!!!!!! yay for rescuing kitties ( I am of course assuming you slut shamed their mother for being so irresponsable as to have a litter she couldn't care for) :D

Well, we did lure her into a trap and taking her to a nasty-smelling place where she woke up with her tummy shaved and the tip of one ear clipped off. She did not seem shamed so much as royally pissed off.

[BookEater]

Truly, the meaning of choice is choice. It is not my job, the governement's job or anyone else's job to judge this woman for her unplanned [or unwanted] pregnancy. The fact is that abortion should be safe and legal for all women who find they are pregnant at a time when pregnancy is not desired.

:clap:

I am livid that this woman's (and by proxy, all women who have an abortion) decision, responsibility, and morality are being questioned. It doesn't matter if she was using contraception or not. It doesn't matter if she is married or not. It doesn't matter if she is in a monogamous relationship or not. It doesn't matter if this is her 1st or 100th abortion. IT JUST DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.

[keeperrox]

We're not saying "I don't care how it affects you", we're saying "it doesn't affect you." And it doesn't. Not in the least.

[lilith]

Im not going to quote, cause the relevant quote is part of a long thread and it's hard to trim on iPad.

But many many breastfeeding women are prescribed the mini pill as contraception. I was one of them. This whole "the mini pill isn't contraception" thing would come as a surprise to the many doctors prescribing it to nursing mothers.

[Angri-la]

I have so wanted to give out pamphlets to people who try to evanglize me. Even with my no soliciting sign, I still get Jehovah Witnesses at my door. I'd love to have a series of pamphlets to hand out to them.

It was a very wise decision to report the woman so that there is a file on her. That way, if she grabs someone else, the cops might take her actions seriously.

I need to scan in the ones I made; they work very well-- all you need to do is print.

Thanks for the link; this was a good read.