evangelizing FSM to a clinic protester

[Rosa]

This is just a beautiful story, someone posted the link at facebook and I had to share it.

 

http://eyelid.livejournal.com/1468278.html

[Anxious Girl]

eyelid is made of win it seems. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[SpeakNow]

Love it!!!

[latraviata]

Love it!!!

Great story!!

She describes her actual abortion story exactly how it was for me 40 years ago.

[BlueChair]

The reverse-proselytizing is full of win, but more than that, I love these normalizing abortion stories. I am really impressed by the women who are brave enough to put their stories out there to counteract the propaganda.

[debrand]

She was pretty surprised. I don't think anyone had ever handed HER a pamphlet before.

Once she realized what it was, she got super pissed, which I don't think was fair at all. First, my pamphlet was way more entertaining than hers, and second, she hands out pamphlets all day, so it is very hypocritical of her to be angry about receiving a pamphlet, IMO.

Anyway, she started yelling angrily at me to take it back, she didn't want my crap, etc., which, again, I felt was quite hypocritical. Also not at all in keeping with her kindly helpful lady persona. I turned to her and said, "Well, I don't need your materials either," and handed her paraphenalia back to her. I didn't take mine back though, just turned around and started walking away, because it is about time someone stuck her with an unwanted pamphlet, IMO. She continued to yell at me about it, but I was just like "no no, it's ok, you keep it," and kept walking. Apparently that wasn't ok with her, because then she grabbed my arm and then my bag, trying to stuff the pamphlet back in it.

I have so wanted to give out pamphlets to people who try to evanglize me. Even with my no soliciting sign, I still get Jehovah Witnesses at my door. I'd love to have a series of pamphlets to hand out to them.

It was a very wise decision to report the woman so that there is a file on her. That way, if she grabs someone else, the cops might take her actions seriously.

[DarkAnts]

When I lived in Utah, I would give out pamphlets to the mormon missionaries that would not leave me alone.

[Guest Anonymous]

The reverse-proselytizing is full of win, but more than that, I love these normalizing abortion stories. I am really impressed by the women who are brave enough to put their stories out there to counteract the propaganda.

I really appreciated her story too. :)

[DarkAnts]

Here is some propaganda from the FSM church. They even have pamphlets.

http://www.venganza.org/materials/

This is the one i used

[thoughtful]

FSM pamphlets? I'm in! :lol:

What a wonderful way for her to deal with the haters.

[SisiL78]

Oh, I love the reverse pamphlets.

I live in Pittsburgh and a few years ago it was the site of the yearly Jews for Jesus convertathon. They choose a new city every year.

THey were ALL OVER my 'hood. Primarily because our neighborhood is known as the "Jewish" neighborhood. It was awful. I used to live walking distance to all the cafes and the grocery store and it was starting to get annoying with the pamphlets handed to me every 20 feet. I found this fake pamphlet online that had Domos chasing kittens that said "Every time you masturbate G-d kills a kitten". I changed it to "Every time someone converts to Messianic Judaism G-d kills a kitten". I printed them out in color and handed them out after I'd have a pamphlet forced on me. I also took the position of taking their pamphlets and shredding them in front of their eyes and giving them back the shreds with the advice to "not litter".

I am usually a nice person, I really am. But, I got a kick out of their anger. One in particular, a very pimply 20 something year old guy who would bother anyone sitting outside a cafe. I asked him why he was alone when all the other pamphleteers were out in groups. He just looked at me, so I continued to ask him if he had joined the cult to meet stupid girls and how was that working for him. Other people laughed and he broke into tears. He also stopped bothering people at cafes.

Do these a-holes think that their tactics work? Who on earth is going to be convinced to switch religions/beliefs whatever through these methods?

[countressrascal]

I should print some out and the next time I am in Tempe on a Sunday AM I could go and put them on the cars in the parking lot of HCofSC. I think PP & Zsu would enjoy that.

[Sprocket]

Ugh, I'm so in need of some reverse proselytizing material to keep by the front door for when we get JW.

[m0drnmoonlight]

Why didn't I think of this when the LaRouche assholes and Scientologists were always bothering everyone on campus when I was in college?

[Austin]

The reverse-proselytizing is full of win, but more than that, I love these normalizing abortion stories. I am really impressed by the women who are brave enough to put their stories out there to counteract the propaganda.

I agree.

[SisiL78]

I agree.

Although I agree on some level, I can't help but have wondered why a woman who knows she is fecund would do nothing to prevent pregnancy after 4 children. Considering she had an abortion already too. Even if its not traumatic to her its still not a good method of birth control. I'm pro-choice, but I cringe when I see women who should know better not plan ahead or take control of their reproduction. It bothers me that she didn't say that her next stop was to get her tubes tied or go on depo or an IUD or a vasectomy for her husband. Will she get another abortion? Will she take that chance? On one hand I love that she didn't let those protesters get the better of her. On the other I wonder how she could be there in the first place? Men and women need to take control of their choices and plan ahead. If you plan on having lots of kids, for instance, you need to figure out how you're going to support them and raise them to be productive members of society. If you're going to not have kids then how are you going to prevent that?

[Austin]

Although I agree on some level, I can't help but have wondered why a woman who knows she is fecund would do nothing to prevent pregnancy after 4 children. Considering she had an abortion already too. Even if its not traumatic to her its still not a good method of birth control. I'm pro-choice, but I cringe when I see women who should know better not plan ahead or take control of their reproduction. It bothers me that she didn't say that her next stop was to get her tubes tied or go on depo or an IUD or a vasectomy for her husband. Will she get another abortion? Will she take that chance? On one hand I love that she didn't let those protesters get the better of her. On the other I wonder how she could be there in the first place? Men and women need to take control of their choices and plan ahead. If you plan on having lots of kids, for instance, you need to figure out how you're going to support them and raise them to be productive members of society. If you're going to not have kids then how are you going to prevent that?

I think it's pretty clear that she realizes that the assumption that she would probably not get pregnant due to previous infertility was a very faulty one. I would not automatically make the assumption that she plans to be irresponsible.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Although I agree on some level, I can't help but have wondered why a woman who knows she is fecund would do nothing to prevent pregnancy after 4 children. Considering she had an abortion already too. Even if its not traumatic to her its still not a good method of birth control. I'm pro-choice, but I cringe when I see women who should know better not plan ahead or take control of their reproduction. It bothers me that she didn't say that her next stop was to get her tubes tied or go on depo or an IUD or a vasectomy for her husband. Will she get another abortion? Will she take that chance? On one hand I love that she didn't let those protesters get the better of her. On the other I wonder how she could be there in the first place? Men and women need to take control of their choices and plan ahead. If you plan on having lots of kids, for instance, you need to figure out how you're going to support them and raise them to be productive members of society. If you're going to not have kids then how are you going to prevent that?

FUcking excuse you.

SHe was on the mini pill, didn't you read? Anyway, it doesn't matter.

She got an abortion because she didn't want to be a mother again AT THAT TIME.

Why did she not tell you that she made super duper sure not to get pregnant again? Because it's none of your business, and it's apparently not something she felt like sharing at the time.

It's this assumption that women are recreational abortion havers that give the anti choicers fuel for the fire.

Abortion on demand without apology.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[meda]

Although I agree on some level, I can't help but have wondered why a woman who knows she is fecund would do nothing to prevent pregnancy after 4 children. Considering she had an abortion already too. Even if its not traumatic to her its still not a good method of birth control. I'm pro-choice, but I cringe when I see women who should know better not plan ahead or take control of their reproduction. It bothers me that she didn't say that her next stop was to get her tubes tied or go on depo or an IUD or a vasectomy for her husband. Will she get another abortion? Will she take that chance? On one hand I love that she didn't let those protesters get the better of her. On the other I wonder how she could be there in the first place? Men and women need to take control of their choices and plan ahead. If you plan on having lots of kids, for instance, you need to figure out how you're going to support them and raise them to be productive members of society. If you're going to not have kids then how are you going to prevent that?

"women who should know better"? Really? Better than to what, be in a stable, monogamous relationship and be using birth control? Because that is the woman in question here. You're pro choice but you cringe? What makes you so special that you are entitled to a woman's complete reproductive history and future reproductive plans so that you cAn decide if her abortion is cringe worthy. What the ever loving fuck.

[SisiL78]

A. Saying "Fuck you" is nasty and mean. I don't swear at people or call names and appreciate the same.

B. She NEVER mentions the mini pill or infertility. She had FOUR children, she's not infertile. She also makes it clear that she NEVER wants to have a fifth kid. That's how I read it. Pregnancies were miserable and they are already spread thin caring for the four they have. Those are not statements by someone considering more pregnancies. I couldn't see a way to search her entire blog, maybe in a previous blog entry she mentions the pill. But, the pill is like 99 percent effective when taken every day.

And I do feel that she was irresponsible. She didn't want to get pregnant again and did nothing to prevent it. She didn't say that her birth control failed. Just that she got pregnant. I do think it works against the pro-choice movement when women don't take responsibility for their procreation. I don't think she should have been forced to have the baby. But, I wonder what about the next time and the time after that? I can't get pregnant at this time because another health issue would be severely aggravated. I hate the pill so I we use condoms. And yes, I'm judging. Abortion should be safe, available and rare. We have so many methods of birth control available. Many of them temporary and reversible if a woman decides that she does want to have more kids. Others are permanent and hard to reverse if she's really sure that she and her husband are done.

I don't think abortion should be traumatic or hard to acquire. I do think we women need to stop playing the "uh-oh we made an oopsy" card. It makes us look stupid and irresponsible and that's exactly what the anti-choice people want.

[Kitty]

A. Saying "Fuck you" is nasty and mean. I don't swear at people or call names and appreciate the same.

B. She NEVER mentions the mini pill or infertility. She had FOUR children, she's not infertile. She also makes it clear that she NEVER wants to have a fifth kid. That's how I read it. Pregnancies were miserable and they are already spread thin caring for the four they have. Those are not statements by someone considering more pregnancies. I couldn't see a way to search her entire blog, maybe in a previous blog entry she mentions the pill. But, the pill is like 99 percent effective when taken every day.

And I do feel that she was irresponsible. She didn't want to get pregnant again and did nothing to prevent it. She didn't say that her birth control failed. Just that she got pregnant. I do think it works against the pro-choice movement when women don't take responsibility for their procreation. I don't think she should have been forced to have the baby. But, I wonder what about the next time and the time after that? I can't get pregnant at this time because another health issue would be severely aggravated. I hate the pill so I we use condoms. And yes, I'm judging. Abortion should be safe, available and rare. We have so many methods of birth control available. Many of them temporary and reversible if a woman decides that she does want to have more kids. Others are permanent and hard to reverse if she's really sure that she and her husband are done.

I don't think abortion should be traumatic or hard to acquire. I do think we women need to stop playing the "uh-oh we made an oopsy" card. It makes us look stupid and irresponsible and that's exactly what the anti-choice people want.

No, she did mention the mini-pill. She said she was using that instead of the "regular" pill because the mini-pill only has progesterone and she was breast-feeding at the time. She didn't take it at the same time every day, and the mini-pill, from what I've read, is not like the regular BCP anyway. She was not ready for another pregnancy, was doing something to prevent it, felt that that was enough, but realized it wasn't. Given the horrendous state of sex education in some parts of the US, are you going to judge every woman who thought they were protected as long as they took the pill every day?

[penguinagogo]

I cant seem to post on this ladys page, perhaps im not internet savvy enough

but see that someone has given her a heads up that shes linked on FJ,

(to warn her of snark and abuse perhaps?)

so if you are reading here eyelids, Id just like to say that your post needs to be written and out there - theres much service paid to the various shrill protestors on the issue (both sides) and not enough to the real women who have to balance the needs/demands of a potential child with their responsibilities, existing children, health, finances, caring duties, plans etc. And make their own decisions, (sometimes easy, sometimes difficult) and take responsibility for them. Your voice should be heard over the ranting.

Good luck and all the best

[SisiL78]

No, she did mention the mini-pill. She said she was using that instead of the "regular" pill because the mini-pill only has progesterone and she was breast-feeding at the time. She didn't take it at the same time every day, and the mini-pill, from what I've read, is not like the regular BCP anyway. She was not ready for another pregnancy, was doing something to prevent it, felt that that was enough, but realized it wasn't. Given the horrendous state of sex education in some parts of the US, are you going to judge every woman who thought they were protected as long as they took the pill every day?

I searched for the word "Pill" "control" "bc" and "mini" on her post and nada. I re-read it. I'm usually a pretty thorough reader. I'll believe you if you say its there but its not coming up anywhere.

I was on the mini-pill for a while. It prevents pregnancy. It depends on the level of synthetic progesterone. There are several levels, some only prevent pregnancy a little bit. I was put on one of these because I promised I was not sexually active at the time and it was for the purpose of hormone regulation. It was a big fail, but in the hormone regulation department! My doctor and I were discussing BCP a couple of months ago because I got terrified after a condom ripped. She made it very clear that what I was on before would not control pregnancy and either way I'd reacted badly to it. She gave me lots of literature on different options and discussed what my baby plans were for the future. Not everyone has such a thorough doctor but my experience has been that if you go into a decent ob-gyn and say "I don't want babies right now" they will make sure to tell you what will work and the percentage of success/failure.

I'm not condemning her. I am torn on whether or not abortion is ending a young life. On one hand is my religious belief that says its a life 40 days after conception. On the other is the idea in Judaism that a baby isn't a real person until it breathes its first breath and before that its a something else... something that isn't clearly defined. Maybe its more like my cat or a squirrel, but I don't know. I do know that we as women have a responsibility to our potential children to have them in a responsible way. If we don't want them then we should plan ahead to not have them. IF we do want them then we should have a plan as how to support those kids.

I also think that there's a lack of information out there for women. We don't get the information we need on BC, and our own fertility. We believe myths like breast feeding equals birth control or that if you have trouble getting pregnant for a while that the situation will continue. I have known a few women who struggled to get pregnant for the first time. Struggled for years and had to take drugs etc.... One in particular had her first at 40 b/c of that. She was shocked when she got pregnant with number 2 6 months after giving birth. Now she's on number 3 and was totally shocked that at 44 she could get pregnant at all without intervention. She said her doctor wasn't that surprised because the doc has seen this happen quite a bit. In fact her doctor had tried to discuss BCP with her after number 2 and she dismissed her concerns b/c she'd never heard of another woman getting preggers that easily after 15 years of infertility. She is glad she didn't listen to the doctor because then she wouldn't be expecting number 3 ;-) But her doc was right. You can't make assumptions about your body just because you had a previous issue.

[Witsec1]

I'm not condemning her. I

Untrue. You said she was irresponsible and made women look stupid.

Your post is nothing but a variation on the theme of "Oh but if abortions are easy to get, how will we punish women for their irresponsibility"?

[LadyBlue]

You can not want to get pregnant and still have issues with permanent birth control methods, or even temporary but hormonal ones. NFP works well but isn't 100% (ask me how I know :) worked perfect for 10 years, though).

It's no one else business what birth control someone else may or may not be using, even if that person has an unplanned pregnancy and chooses an abortion.