Zack Bates and Sarah Reith Courtship Kaput

[alysee]

I would say he can go after Jana Duggar now, but I think Jana deserves much better.

Jana does deserve better but then at least Jim Bob would be able to keep tabs on Jana pretty easily if he went that route. That is to say easier than letting her just get married to someone else in another state. It's either got to be a guy in Arkansas or the Bates. It's the only way I see it happening.

[jockosmom]

I would say he can go after Jana Duggar now, but I think Jana deserves much better.

ooo yes, Zach and Jana should get together. Jana needs to find a headship so she can get out of there. :clap:

[ElphabaGalinda]

So have they given away pieces of their heart now? Will they both go into future courtships as damaged goods? I don't see how this is any better than dating, in fact I think it would be worse since you go in with the intention of marriage and are told it can't fail. I don't get how fundies can still believe in courtship after one fails, since I thought the whole point for them was they always end in marriage.

[jockosmom]

So have they given away pieces of their heart now? Will they both go into future courtships as damaged goods? I don't see how this is any better than dating, in fact I think it would be worse since you go in with the intention of marriage and are told it can't fail. I don't get how fundies can still believe in courtship after one fails, since I thought the whole point for them was they always end in marriage.

Kelly spun it around and interpreted the failed courtship as successful. Nothing like deluding yourself into believing whatever's convenient!

[LurkerOverThePond]

Sarah looked terrified when he was proposing unlike Anna who seemed genuinely happy.

Can you see this episode on YouTube? Do you know the name of the episode?

edit. I mean Zach and Sarah, not Smuggar and Anna.

[gustava]

Kelly spun it around and interpreted the failed courtship as successful. Nothing like deluding yourself into believing whatever's convenient!

They're so full of it.

[Coconut Flan]

At least they finally admitted it.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Kelly spun it around and interpreted the failed courtship as successful. Nothing like deluding yourself into believing whatever's convenient!

It's funny because if you take out all the God stuff she's basically saying why dating and breaking up can still be a good/important experience.

[Smithie]

Can you see this episode on YouTube? Do you know the name of the episode?

edit. I mean Zach and Sarah, not Smuggar and Anna.

The episode is "38 Kids and Counting." I found the final part of the courtship proposal, but not the beginning.

[formergothardite]

Who would have guessed. They bought matching shirts and everything. :roll:

[slickcat79]

While Kelly claims that Zach is glad that he went the courtship route because it "protected them from wrong goals and further pain," I have to believe that he is hurting. After all, he's been told all his life that going the courtship route was the key to finding his true love. Not to mention the fact that he popped the question on national television, so that moment will live forever on the Internet.

I have to believe that Kelly is an idiot. There's really no difference between a broken courtship and a dating relationship except the "purity" nonsense and maybe the expectations. Plenty of people, especially young people, can date someone for a few weeks or months without having sex with them. Dating isn't some secret code word for prostitution, and there's no way that ending a courtship is less painful than a breakup after dating. The only things you have invested in a courtship are your emotions (since there's nothing physical) and the expectation that you will eventually marry the other person. They are in denial.

[Mela99]

Thank goodness. When he asked her to court him she looked horrified and disgusted but was keeping a smile just to be polite.

Got a video link to this? I've never seen it.

I still maintain that this is no different than dating. Maybe they didn't engage in physical relations, but two people in a relationship hoping for marriage one day -- saaaaaame thing.

I do feel bad for Zack, but I'm kinda doing a dance for Sarah over here. It's nice to see that she was able to exercise her own feelings about it.

On the other hand though, how do fundies few a second courtship? Is Sarah damaged goods now?

[ceg045]

Late to the party, but wait. Healing? That sounds dangerously like what I had to go through after dating (gasp!) and breaking up with my first love. I thought courtship was supposed to protect one from heartache?

[Rosie]

So does this mean pieces of his heart are gone, never to be replenished? I would think ending a courtship would hurt a lot more than ending a dating relationship. If you go into a courtship with serious intentions (as these fundies are supposed to do) and then it doesn't turn into marriage, I would think that would be more devastating than ending a casual dating relationship where you went into it just to get to know the person a little and have some fun.

I agree, and don't see how this is much (at all actually) different from dating and breaking up.

[Rosie]

I have to believe that Kelly is an idiot. There's really no difference between a broken courtship and a dating relationship except the "purity" nonsense and maybe the expectations. Plenty of people, especially young people, can date someone for a few weeks or months without having sex with them. Dating isn't some secret code word for prostitution, and there's no way that ending a courtship is less painful than a breakup after dating. The only things you have invested in a courtship are your emotions (since there's nothing physical) and the expectation that you will eventually marry the other person. They are in denial.

I agree completely - and even "purity" and expectations may be the same in a dating relationship, if the people involved hope to marry, and do not want to have premarital sex.

[Jessica]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/271402/ Here ye, here ye. 24 minutes in.

[Visionoyahweh]

IF your heart was protected, then how could it be hurting? I'm not sure you should call what they had a 'relationship', Kelly Jo.

Interesting that they let her break it off. Oh wait, everything bad is always the woman's fault!

Team Zach/Jana here - let's get them both laid by 25! Think of the ratings!

[Pudicitia]

I can understand why courtship seems initially appealing to some as a way to find a partner. My fiancé and I were good friends for years before we got together, and during that time had loads of conversations about life the universe and everything, including how we wanted to structure future relationships, what our goals were, how we wanted to raise any kids we had in the future, etc. So when we eventually got together, we knew that we had similar ideas about structuring that relationship, while some friends found it awkward to talk so openly once they were romantically involved. So I can see why people might say that some sort of 'structured friendship' might be useful for asking those questions before it becomes awkward.

But frankly, if you can't have those conversations (if those are conversations you both want to have), it's probably a sign that you aren't communicating well. And in a way of life where courtship effectively replaces dating, I don't see why they should be different in their outcomes. In that surely you invest emotion to the extent that you can and want to - an intense courtship where you genuinely feel that God might be guiding you towards one-flesh union with another human being has the potential to have a lot more emotional fall out than two teens shagging without considering it too much and then moving on.

Basically, isn't the idea of courtship mostly a very lazy and patriarchal shorthand for the fact that communication is important in the formation of long-term relationships? :think:

[formergothardite]

Here ye, here ye. 24 minutes in.

Wow, it seems like if there hadn't been cameras and tons of people, she would have said no. She looked miserable.

[freealljs]

I just find Zach a creepy tool who is stuck on himself. Maybe Sarah called the whole courtship off because Zach showed signs of being a total douche, kind of like Smuggar.

I wouldn't want Zach and Jana to get together. Jana deserves someone who isn't a tool.

What will happen to those matching outfits?

[lilwriter85]

Got a video link to this? I've never seen it.

I still maintain that this is no different than dating. Maybe they didn't engage in physical relations, but two people in a relationship hoping for marriage one day -- saaaaaame thing.

I do feel bad for Zack, but I'm kinda doing a dance for Sarah over here. It's nice to see that she was able to exercise her own feelings about it.

On the other hand though, how do fundies few a second courtship? Is Sarah damaged goods now?

Some fundies might view Sarah as damaged goods. But I think Zack and Sarah will probably get second courtships.

[FaeT]

The fact that they entered into this with the intention of marriage and not just seeing if they work has got to make it much more painful for Zach. How sad :( I wonder if he's allowed to even show his pain and be upset.

I do think he will court a duggar. Or at least some will. I've always believe that several duggar children will marry bates children. JB and J'chelle will have lots of grandchildren who are double first cousins. No doubt about that at all.

PS: I wouldn't be surprised if the tv show had something to do with it. I wouldn't want my life portrayed - and then examined - on tv for the whole world to see.

[FaeT]

Okay so I'm watching this ..

I'm slightly annoyed at how the interviewer makes a huge deal about the fact that she never had any pain medication during labour. What is that so "weird"?? Plenty of people do it. I know plenty of people who have done that. I've done that. It's not a huge deal. Ugh.

[Visionoyahweh]

Okay so I'm watching this ..

I'm slightly annoyed at how the interviewer makes a huge deal about the fact that she never had any pain medication during labour. What is that so "weird"?? Plenty of people do it. I know plenty of people who have done that. I've done that. It's not a huge deal. Ugh.

At this point, labor for Kelly must last 30 seconds. The last Bates baby took a 'quick trip through the birth canal' and had complications.

[Sprocket]

Isn't courtship supposed to bring you to the one that GOD has chosen for you? So basically, either God was wrong or after he had a long talk with himself (ie, praying) he decided that he should enter into this relationship with the expectations of marriage. Because going out to dinner with someone a few times/Dating is worse than entering into a relationship with the complete hope that it will lead to marriage. Yeah, I would take my steak at Longhorn over courting some db that I didn't even know and was expected to marry.